The Cavs won another close game, outscoring the Pistons 35-23 in the fourth quarter.
–I would say that I’m conflicted about the Cavaliers winning so many close games, but that would be inaccurate. As much as losing is a drag, I stand firm on the fact that I think this team needs to secure one of the worst records in the league in order to complete this rebuild through the upcoming draft. To use an analogy, I think building a title contender from scratch is a bit like planning a shuttle launch. You need to have all your components and personel in place before firing up the thrusters, and even then the ship might explode on the platform. The Cavs have reached the point of their season where it’s time to power down.
–How do the Cavaliers power down, exactly? I don’t know. The fact is the Cavs have one of the best young point guards in the league and a gaggle of role players who range from competent to awful. Maybe that’s good enough for the 9 or 10 spot in the East during this strange season… which is exactly where the Cavs don’t want to be because, again: they’re a team with one of the best young point guards in the league and a gaggle of role players. And it’s not like Byron Scott can bench Kyrie Irving in an effort to tank. I’m starting to sweat, and it’s leaking through the pits of my favorite shirt. I think I’ll address this issue in a longer article sometime in the next week.
–In the meantime, let’s talk about this game. It was a lot of fun! (For about six minutes.) The Cavs looked flat for much of the contest, with the exception of Antawn Jamison who deserves a lot of credit for the victory. He carried the Cavaliers’ offense for much of the game. His 29 points through three quarters were the only reason the Pistons weren’t up by 22 heading into the final period.
–In crunch time, Irving, who had a pretty dreadful game (6 TOs, lots of short-armed jumpers), was ebullient. He put up 17 points in the final quarter, including a triumvirate of threes and some clutch free throws to put the Cavs up 4 with 11 seconds left. I hesitate to call a player with half a shortened season under his belt “clutch,” but all signs are positive that Irving will make a living taking over games in the fourth quarter. He demanded the ball, and made something good happen nearly every time he touched it. He picked his team and himself up when it mattered. It was special.
–Lots of mistakes tonight. The Cavs turned the ball over 17 times to the Pistons’ 11, and the offense was slow getting into its sets. It was a strange night for the team offensively. It seemed like the only players racking up shots were Irving, Jamison, and Gee; Jamison was the only one converting on a consistent basis.
–There’s not a lot else to say. This was essentially a routine loss with the exception of the final quarter. The Pistons outplayed the Cavs and deserved to win, but they went into autopilot just as the Cavaliers were heating up. Oh, and Ryan Hollins is still awful at basketball.
The Cavs are at home against the Hornets tomorrow night. Given how lethargic their performance was tonight, I wonder if they’ll have anything left for New Orleans, who would be the worst team in the league if the Bobcats didn’t exist. Until tomorrow, friends.
Picking 10th or 11th means one of the 7′ project players like Myers Leonard or Tyler Zeller. The good thing about that is Ryan Hollins will not be on the team anymore. I’ll take that. I would rather have pick 5-8 to get a shot at one of the 2 guards like Beal or Lamb though. Plenty of season left, and the Cavs Schedule in March is brutal, the back to back to back and 4 games in 5 nights, plus Sessions and Jamison will probably be gone after the 15th and we will be playing D league players. The losses will come. Enjoy the winning now while it is plentiful, hard times are coming.
Solution to the anxiety in your first two paragraphs: Trade or buy out Antawn–now. He’s winning games for us right now, but he’s not a short-, medium-, or long-term piece of this franchise.
Donkey Kong I think the Cavs will try to move Jamison to a contender but not until around the trade deadline. I think the Cavs are just better than a lot of teams and it’s hard to believe that because we were SO BAD last year. The thing is, you just CAN NOT look at a basketball team as the sum of it’s parts. A gaggle of role players cannot win in the NBA. But having that ONE dynamic player that the roles players feed off of and you get mutliplicative results. Still, the Cavs aren’t talented enough with Varejao to beat contenders. There will be few wins against +.500 teams from here on out.
I wouldn’t mind being on the losing end of all these flukey games. But that would mean that Kryie’s not clutch, so maybe I don’t want that. We need some Sundiata Gaines losses. In all seriousness, the key to the Cavs rebuild is going to be how the Cavs develop their players, how they use their assets, and how they secure value through trades/FA. As far as I’m concerned, KI looks like a once in a generation talent for a franchise. Like, his name is going to be in the rafters some day. In other words – there might be a few misses before another hit.
Along that vein, Alonzo Gee’s play has been very encouraging. I hope it’s not a result of this wacky season, that he can be a legit rotation player on a competitive team.
Cavs definitely need a center that can finish – Kyrie gets in the paint and if he had a guy to consistently dish to, Cavs would score a lot of easy baskets.
ESPN has us projected to pick 14th I think and taking Meyers Leonard. One of my biggest concerns about that is I heard he won’t reach his full NBA potential if he comes out now. Also, I’ve seen him compared to a David Lee mixed with Robin at best and at worst… Ryan Hollins. I just don’t think I can handle 4 years of Hollins 2.0.
Meyers Leonard would be the worst case scenario. I think I might be on suicide watch if that happens. Guy is charmin soft. Don’t want either of the Zellers.
Colin McGowan, you get it. Though you might be the only one that writes here that does.
Now that we’ve heard the choir sing praise of losing, I’m here to right the ship.
Guys, do you really want to tank for the sake of tanking? What happens if we tank, end up picking someone who flops, and enter into the dreaded lottery cycle – year after year, loss after loss, picking up junk.
The point is, as we’ve said a million times (I’m waiting for Kevin here) no one knows what the future holds for any given player. If we have a shot at the playoffs, I say go for it. I think your (the collective you) fears of becoming the other dreaded – the always 5-8 seed are missing a key ingredient to that recipe.
Nearly all the consistent low playoff seeds are missing a star. Just one – that’s all it takes. Look at whose been there the past few years – Atlanta, Milwaukee, Philly – none of those those teams possess a single STAR player. If we’re lucky, Irving can be that star, and help us avoid those seeds year after year.
If anything, a win like this shows me that we’ve got a good young player who wants to win. Why would you remove his ability to achieve that? So he can become complacent? The chemistry of this Cavs team has been surprisingly nice this year, and I wouldn’t want to throw off that (which can lead to much larger player growth) just so we might have a shot to maybe draft someone who could potentially maybe if we’re lucky be good.
The Cavs lost 26 games in a row last season and managed not to be the worst team in the league. Then they got a number 1 pick from a team that won 10 more games than they did. Think about that for a second. Without that BDavis trade, the Clippers who were playing really hard with a good player in Blake Griffin, secured a number 1 pick.They would have had Kyrie Irving right now if not for Chris Grant and Dan Gilbert deciding to do what they did. That and the mild idiocy of Sterling as an owner.
So no am not rooting for loses. I dont want these players to ever think that they have to lose for something greater. I will however say that the Cavs have to make sure they move Sessions and Antwan for an asset or two.Sessions because though a good backup, i dislike that Sessions-Irving backcourt immensely. And i dont like his style of play on most nights. Antwan is old and not part of the future of this team. He’s playing well now but in reality, there’s really nothing likeable about the guy basketball wise. The loses everyone is clamoring for, will easily come then.
Anything the Cavs get from those two should be used wisely. In the draft, wherever the Cavs land, if they can manage to get a decent wing player or compentent center i’ll be fine with that. Just as long as Ryan Hollins absolutely clears his locker for good at the end of this season and never comes back here for any reason.
Ultimately i think the rebuilding of the Cavs as a team at this point depends largely on the decisions and moves made by the front office in the next year or two. That and some good old luck. There’s just no way we can possibly be Bobcats bad. At least not with BScott as the coach and Kyrie as the point guard. Unless Ryan Hollins plays 40 min a night. In which case….
Correction. The Clippers won 32 games. A team that won 32 games was supposed to draft the first overall pick.
Obviously Colin M and I don’t see eye-to-eye on the cost / benefit of the Cavs winning / losing. I’m rooting for the Cavs to win, while accepting losses as another means to an end. That probably goes without saying, considering I published 7000 words last week trying to justify that.
If the Cavs pick 11th, I think Quincy Miller would be a good pick. Maybe better than his teammate that might go in the top 5.
I just don’t understand all the Hollins hate. Is he a great NBA basketball player? No. Does he play hard? Yes. Is he trying to make it in this league? Yes. Is he going to be the Cavs center in 2 years? No. Does his playing lots of minutes create more losses for the Cavs, creating more possibilities for a higher draft pick? Yes.
We bash this guy more than LeBron around here. Priorities People!
Quick question for everyone, if the Cavs just had the #4 pick last year, do you think they still would have drafted Tristan Thompson? If so, could you imagine how tortured we’d be with them losing to the Pistons 100-76 (I’m being totally basic here and just subtracting Kyrie’s points) while watching the Cavs’ top pick go 0-5 from the field and watching Jamison potentially hoist up another 10-20 shots?
@Tom Pestak – agreed. There’s no need to bash on Hollins.
Both winning and losing have their merits at this point. Kevin Hetrick made a lot of great points on why winning is the better route and that you can’t count on a player just because he’s a high pick. Plus, winning makes for a fun night for the people who went to the game and are watching at home. Still, the higher the pick, the better chance of finding an impact player. I know some people that cover basketball for a living feel the same way; Tom Reed and Brian Windhorst.
I think most todays great players came from top 10 picks. Think about it like this: what are the odds of a top 10 player vs. a non-top 10 player being a bust or non-impact player? I’ll leave the mathematics behind something like that to one of the bloggers…lol.
DK is right about Jamison. As much as I like him, the sooner he’s traded or bought out, the better in the long run. One way or the other, this is his last season in Cleveland. Where will his points come from next season?
Ok. So completely off topic of the current convo going on here (and mildly blasphemous)… but after watching Brandon Knight have his way with Kyrie in the first half (and really the whole night), is anyone having second thoughts about how the draft went down last year?
Don’t get me wrong, I definitely think that Kyrie is/will be better than Brandon Knight, but Knight has a lot of tools to at the very least be a very competent scoring PG. My question is whether the Cavs would have been better served taking taking D-Will at 1 and then Knight at 4? I think that Knight will at least approach Kyrie, whereas Tristan just doesn’t seem to be much more than Anderson Varejao with 4 inches less height. That worries me a bit. Right now it looks fine because D-Will hasn’t done a whole lot, but I’m not sure we won’t end up regretting this later.
Nate -
It’s interesting you bring up Brandon Knight, because I was thinking all last night that Kyrie’s D was absolutely horrendous. Knight looks like a great scorer and Kyrie had no answer for any of Knight’s drives to the rim. Because of the way Knight penetrated, Kyrie started playing father off Knight, which of course opened up the deep ball (he was 4-5)
I won’t go as far to say Knight + D.Will > Kyrie + TT, but I will say that Kyrie’s D HAS to get better if he’s going to be a superstar in the future.
Also, Tristan played some great D last night. He really did a good job disrupting Monroe late in the game.
Scuzz,
A few things…people abscribing to the “must lose” philosophy aren’t banking on a top 10 pick. I’m pretty sure the hope would be for top 5. Currently the Cavs have the 11th worst record, and the difference between 11th and 10th is obviously minimal.
Noone’s arguing that a top 10 pick isn’t better than a non-top 10 pick. But at what expense is the top 5 pick, if the means are winning 2 out of every 10 games instead of 4 of every 10? The Cavs already did the prior last year…it was horrible. I’d rather root for the Cavs to win; most teams are built around one top 5 pick (of their own) or fewer. Most teams that draft a “star in waiting” improve and aren’t top 5 again the next year. That works for most of those teams that were so fortunate. The Thunder are an exception to the rule.
I second Mallory…Kyrie’s D has to get better. That was the most glaring takeaway from the first half. Scoring 25 points isn’t good enough if the guy your guarding scores 24 every night. That’s been a bit of recurring trend this season.
Nate: No.
Kyrie has superstar potential, and right now TT, as raw as he is offensively, is better than Derrick Williams. Really, I have no idea where your post is coming from.
And TT 4 inches shorter than Varejao? What? TT is 6’9″ in shoes, Varejao is 6’11″ (both rounded up slightly). Tristan has been phenomenal on the defensive end, especially in the last few games against good players like Cousins and Monroe. Derrick Williams is a tweener with no elite skills. He could be pretty good on a team without Love, but he hasn’t shown that much in the minutes he has gotten.
I wouldn’t worry about Kyrie’s D. Look at what LeBron did to his game after we questioned his D for the first few years… Offensive capability cannot be taught as easily as D. D = hustle + system + intelligence + experience. Kyrie has all those traits, minus experience.
Kevin,
You’re right, tanking for a top 5 pick would be a bitter pill to swallow. I wasn’t thinking quite to that extreme. More or less missing the playoffs by a few wins vs. a low-seed playoff spot. If they end up 8-11, I think they are in good shape. Terrence Ross, Terrence Jones, Quincy Miller would all be good picks. Even Jeremy Lamb could slip a little.
The only ‘problem’ I have with these kind of wins is the fact that we rely so heavily on Jamison for them. If Jamison was a central part of the Cavs, I would be happy and look at these types of wins as building blocks and we could focus more on how the team plays together and the ‘single’ missing peice.
However, because Jamison is not in the Cavs future, we are potentially playing ourseleves into a better record (and worst lottery positions). I’m not sure how many extra wins Jamison bring, so far this season at least 3, but likely more – just hard to tell. The lottery is set up to help the worst teams get a shot at selecting the best players. The Cavs with Jamison is not really reflective of how bad we are, or will be next season without him. The differnce between winning/losing 6 extra games, espeically against poor teams like the Kings or Pistons isn’t going to give us the ‘right’ draft potential next year.
Now, I don’t believe we should tank, that’s just ‘wrong’ and I think the players should get a taste of winning, I want them to have winning attitudes. We’ll make the best of our draft position regardless of what it is, if we pick around 11, I hope we take a wing and if we manage to trade sessions for a pick in the late teens or early 20′s maybe we take Fab Melo if available or another 7+ footer that’s avaialable. I honestly don’t think that keeping Andy as our C is a bad thing with him either starting or coming off the bench for whomever we draft and then let TT and Samardo (if in shape) play PF.
For what was called a weak draft last year, there were some pretty good looking point guards in the draft. Irving, Knight, Walker, Cole, Thomas. All have to be in the top 10 list of rookies this season. Isaiah Thomas was pick 60, and the way he’s been playing since he was given the starting role he looks like he should have went in the 1st round. He torched the Heat last night, so he’s doing it against good teams too. And the 2 / combo guards have been good as well, with Brooks, Shumpert, Klay Thompson, and Fredette putting up solid numbers. I would love to have Klay Thompson playing the 2 on this team, sorry Mychal but Klay got most of Dad’s talent. And Klay was picked at 11, exactly the position the Cavs are in now. You can get some good players later in the draft. I’m not going to worry about where they pick and keep rooting for Cavs wins – Basketball is fun to watch again in C-Town. I don’t want to go back to last season. As long as Grant makes good decisions we can get a good player if we pick at 10-13 or pick at 5-9.
It’s a double-edged sword. By winning these games Irving and TT will have winning basketball instilled into them under Scott’s system, which is pretty important for rookies we want to help resurrect a franchise. At the same time if we can get a guy like Barnes and McAdoo (if they enter the draft), both of which can become a very good, even elite small forward, then I would take that any day of the week.
The latter worked for Seattle/OKC when they got Durant and Westbrook in back-to-back drafts, but that’s wishful thinking. Even if we fall just short of playoffs and have a only a puncher’s chance to get a top-3 pick just fly Nicky Gilbert to make the balls fall our way again and problem solved.
Here’s the REAL question guys – what happens if we make the playoffs? I honestly think, with the way we’ve been playing (and the way Boston hasn’t) we’ve got a shot. If we can hold off until late march, when Andy will likely return, don’t you think we’ve got a fighting chance?
Mallory:
I think it depends if Antwan is still on the team. This roster, full healthy, I can see a 7 or 8 seed. If Antwan is gone, I don’t think they can replace his scoring.
Point guards and rookies in general aren’t great at defense. Kyrie is big and quick for a point – he has the tools he will get better.
Kyrie was guarding Ben Gordon for a bit of the game last night.
MRM -
My point was that while TT has played Derrick Williams evenly so far (going by numbers only because I haven’t watched D-will play at all) I haven’t seen much from TT to think that he will ever develop anything from the offensive end. Which is fine if he turns out to be Serge Ibaka on the defensive end. I DID see enough of D-Will in college to think that while he may be a “tweener” he’s an athletic 4 at 6’8″ 240 lbs and can knock down an outside shot. With all that he could be a pretty good offensive weapon for a team that doesn’t already have one of the best rebounding/offensive 4′s in the league in Love. Also, I was exaggerating a bit when talking about TT height. But, at the 4 he’s not huge.
My point was not to bash Kyrie and TT, but just bring up the point that Kyrie + TT may not be as good as Knight + D-Will in the end. Though, now I’m thinking that Knight probably never develops anything more than adequate passing skills and Kyrie already has that (if not better) which in turn probably makes both TT and D-Will less valuable.
Brandon Knight is not in the same league as Kyrie Irving. He had a nice game yesterday, but Kyrie was better in college, he’s better now, and he’ll be better in the future. Much better. It’s like comparing CP3 to Rodney Stuckey.
I don’t get all the hand-wringing over what is not a particularly stocked draft class — why not battle like hell for the #8 playoff seed (if it could be done without Anderson, think about what that does for the team psychologically), steal one game from the Heat or Bulls in the Q, make Kyrie’s rookie year something special. Cellar-dwelling is for the birds, let the Pistons handle that. Just beat up on the Bucks next time and take care of business 50/50 against teams like Celtics and Knicks, fighting chance for #8.
Plus, I would really like to see Tristan Thompson assigned to defend LeBron full time for five or six games in a row; then we can figure out who is the true “King.”