According to this report, the Cavaliers are apparently one of the teams in the Chris Kaman sweepstakes. The great Rohan Cryuff of At The Hive emailed me tonight asking, essentially, why the Cavs would want Chris Kaman. Here were my guesses at what’s going on behind these rumors:
- The Cavs want to make the playoffs this year. Badly. I’ve been on the record for a while saying that I hope the Cavs take their time and do a nice, long, patient, rebuild, but Dan Gilbert clearly doesn’t want to have to swallow the pill of a full 3-5 year rebuilding plan, and I think he really likes the idea of a potential Heat-Cavaliers playoff series, no matter how slim the chances of the records matching up or the Cavaliers winning the series — is it unfair to say that if the Cavs did pull of a win in that series, regardless of what happens through the rest of the playoffs, it would be a bigger Cleveland sports history moment than the 2007 Conference Championship, especially since that playoff run was all about LeBron, and all things LeBron are now tainted?
- Kaman’s value is that he’s a true center who can knock down a jump shot, which is important when the Cavs’ two best young frontcourt players who can’t knock down a jump shot, like at all. Kaman isn’t lights-out from midrange, but teams have to respect him from out there, which would free up Varejao and TT to attack the rim instead of being forced to fire up hopeless jumpers whilst paired alongside each other or play out-of-position defensively next to Antawn Jamison.
- The best deal we can figure (it works on Real GM’s trade checker): The Cavs deal Jamison and Hollins’ expiring, along with Sessions and a possible 2nd-rounder, for Kaman and Ariza’s ugly contract. The Ariza piece is the key for me: the Cavs desperately need a wing, and would get to talk themselves into Ariza as a potential above-average 3-and-D wing, just like Houston and New Orleans did, while New Orleans gets to get rid of a guy who’s still riding the high of one hot-shooting playoffs, wasn’t good offensively at all with CHRIS PAUL setting him up, and is currently enjoying a god-awful 44.7% True Shooting percentage.
The real issue here is Sessions — he’d clearly be backing up Jack, and is he really THAT much of an upgrade over the much cheaper Greivis Vasquez? I love Razor Ramon, but his PER is 14.92, and he doesn’t stretch the floor, isn’t much of a playmaker, and plays no defense. Vasquez’s PER is 14.67, and he’s better as a passer and a defender than Ramon, pretty much by default.
Anyways, that’s my run at a justification for this rumor. Have a good Thursday — I know everyone loves a good trade rumor. For the record, I put the chances of Kaman coming to Cleveland at 7%, and that might be generous. But, as always, stranger things have happened.
How old is Kaman? It feels as if people have talked about him having a great year ever year for the past 12 years and seems to consistently underproduce. He always seems to appear in trade talks, yet if you ask what he averaged last year (in stats), no one could tell you without looking it up, even the local fans. I wouldn’t mind him, especially if we received Ariza as well, just not sure that really helps us long term…
I doubt this would ever happen. The Cavs are shopping around Sessions for a 1st round pick, so why would they give up those same assets to get Kaman’s expiring contract?
I could understand if the Cavs traded for Ariza or Okafor in a salary dump for a pick or other asset.
I hope we don’t sneak into the weak East playoffs only to get drubbed in the first round. We need some more top flight talent, so we need trade for picks and unfortunately lose this year. If we see progress from Irving, Thompson, and Casspi while losing and setting up for a strong draft next year it will be worth it though.
NO!!!! I hate this trade. Draft picks draft picks draft picks.
Some Kaman facts and factors:
- Turns 30 this spring
- Has missed more than 10 games in half of his 8 seasons prior to this yr.
- Reliable double-digit scorer, average on D. Quite a bit like our old friend Z, really, though not as good a rebounder.
- The holes on this team are clear: youth and quality at 2 spot, scoring from the 3, and a real 5. That’s 3 main holes, at least. And they’re only gonna fill 1-2 of those holes in the draft this summer. So acquiring a player this year could be a great idea. But I would think they’d be looking for someone younger than 30, and more athletic than Kaman. But maybe Kaman can be had cheaply.
This is a terrible idea unless the Cavs can get one of NO’s first round draft picks. I don’t think that’s going to happen. Luckily, I don’t see this trade happening. Indiana and Houston have much more attractive pieces.
On a different topic, what’s the word surrounding possible trades for Jamison? Does Gilbert want to hold on to him for the playoffs? I love that the Cavs have a competitive owner but hate that he seems to be short sighted.
Given how good Irving is playing, and how many terrible teams are in the East, its possible that the Cavs think that even if they dump Jamison and Sessions they will still hang around contention for the 8th spot. If that is true, then adding a veteran that makes us better in the short-run (like Kaman) to help make the playoffs is not a terrible idea. Even if we didn’t add him, we would end up with a low lottery pick.
Of course, I assume Grant is smart enough to not part with any real long-term assets to get Kaman. If “sources say” that they Cavs are “interested” in Kaman, then my assumption is they would take him if they can do so without parting with a major long-term asset. I have no problem with this. Of course, this also means they likely won’t get him, and all of these rumors are just that.
My question is who are the other teams in the Kaman sweepstakes? With this knowledge I think we can figure out the legitimacy of the Cavs having a shot at him.
In my opinion I think the Cavs will just miss the playoffs. The condensed schedule will get to this team especially if they dump Jamison for picks. Also if they can’t healthy I think the end of the season could be ugly for the Cavs
I figured we would do a Jamison / Kaman based swap…then trade Varejao for picks / a wing.
Kaman then would be filling in for Andy! It would be tough minutes wise to trade Anderson AND Twan.
I would love to get Kaman and Ariza.
Kaman is a quality C who can stretch the floor and plays better than average defense. Combine him on the front court with Andy who’s not really a scoring machine but plays very well without the ball by slashing and finishing. Also, he plays elite defense and can guard both PF’s and C’s. The combo of these two (+Tristan) would be a very very good defensive frontcourt.
Ariza, who does have a very bad contract, is a much better than average perimeter defender (not necessarily elite, but maybe). Offensively he’s good (11/5/3), not great, but combined with his defense, he’s better than average. Most improtantly, he’s a huge upgrade to anyone else we have offensively with the exception of Kyrie (or Boobie when he’s hot). He would allow Casspi to move to SG where I think he could be more effective as a 3rd or 4th scoring option. Or combine Ariza with Gee, you would have a top tier defensive backcourt (we’d still have ‘problems’ against elite PG’s as Kyrie’s defense is still a work in progress).
A starting line-up of Kyrie, Casspi (at the 2), Ariza, Andy and Kaman isn’t a championship team, but gives you quality all the way around, with 2 elite defenders, 2 better than average defenders and Kyrie. Offensively, this would be our best unit we’ve had in a couple years, where all the peices really fit with each other. A stretch 5, a cutting 4, 2 decent wings with decent jumpers and a PG who can drive at will, pass to a cutting player or open shooter, and is always a threat to shoot the J himself.
I don’t think they would beat the Heat in a 7 game series, but I do think they could give the heat problems. Gee did a heck of a job on LeBron when they played. Add Ariza to the mix (who’s a better defender), it would be nice to see these two on the court together to match up with against LeBron/Wade. I think both Andy and Kaman can give Bosh trouble forcing him to be more of an outside shooter, leaving the other big inside to play against Haslem (we’d win that match-up). Kyrie, not a very good defender yet, but can play well against Chalmers or Cole. So, overall I still think LBJ/Wade/Bosh is superior to any combo we (or anybody else) can put on the court, but we have guys that can compete decently well with them. Plus our depth with Gee, Tristan, Boobie (even Parker if healthy and fresh), Maybe even Samardo is deeper and more quality than the Heat. Bring fans and emotions into the mix, and LeBron ‘chokes’, it would be the biggest first round playoff series in NBA history.
I really don’t see this as ‘just’ a Kaman sweapstakes as Ariza would be a nice added peice to, and would still leave the Cavs with some cap space. If we could resign Kaman and add anothe wing in the draft (there are plenty to choose from even in mid first round), we could have a very nice core. Defense first team (which is the key to a championship), with several quality, but not necessarily elite all-around players. This is the formula the Pistons used when they won the championship with Chauncey, Tayshon, Rip… So, you never really know
Maybe the Cavs have an Anderson Varejao deal in the works as well? This is the only way I would be ok with this deal. The Cavs trade Andy for a pick (or two) and a young guy and pick up Kaman for Jamison and some other hodge podge of players.
@Weatherman- Houston and Indiana are two teams that ESPN has mentioned.
Concentrate on winning the Jared Sullinger sweepstakes. kaman is a dud these days.
What’s the prize in the “Jared Sullinger Sweepstakes”, a bag of pork rinds and a spot at the end of 6 different teams’ benches for 12 years?
If the cavs do not embrace the patient rebuilding approach and repeat the win now approach like w the LBJ years, I will stop being a fan. The fact that they were even considering Chris kaman is extremely concerning.
craig e,
what is your evidence that patient rebuilding is successful more often than it is not? OKC seems to be a clear example of a team that was “patiently rebuilt” via 3 straight succsseful lottery picks, What other examples of such success are there? And how do these examples of success compare to teams that attempted to rebuild via the lottery but failed to be successful?
Here’s why this works: you dump Jamison – who is useless to us in the long term. You get Kaman, who might not be a godsend, but it gives us a true center… so you have a rotation of Kaman, Varejao, and TT in the front instead of Jamison, Varejao, and TT. Essentially, you get 6 years younger in that part of the trade (and I think Jamison and Kaman are equivlaent).
With Ariza & Sessions, you trade a backup point guard who is essentially worthless to this team, to Ariza who can compete for starting small forward against Gee & Casspi. I’m unsure of whether Ariza is an upgrade over Gee or not. He’s certainly more expensive (about $7 mill a year for 3 more years). But sessions is not very valuable to us, and Ariza might be. If either Ariza or Gee or Casspi can move to the 2 slot effectively it would make this much better.
Hot Sauce,
I would say the Timberwolves gathered assets and now have a very talented young core which could develop into a contending squad. The Pacers, under Bird, have also been patient it’s worked out well.
It’s more of a question of the correct formula. Get young players to develop around each other. The last thing you want is a perpetual 50-win team that can’t get out of the first round. Unless you have a transcendent superstar or an attractive market, swapping middling players to up your win total is not a smart route. The Chris Kaman trade stinks of the rotten moves the Cavs made in the mid 2000′s to surround LBJ with veteran role players. Not smart and not fun to watch. That’s how you kick a potental all-star like Kyrie out of town.
Craig E.
Do you really believe the Timberwolves or Pacers are models we should follow?
When was the last time either team was a ‘true contender’. The Pacers are considered a ‘good’ team this year, but I don’t think you can fine one person who with sincere honesty would pick them to win the East. At best, both teams as currently built seem like the perpetual 50-win team that can’t get out of the first round (possibly second). Neither K. Love or D. Granger are perpetual superstars (some slight argument could be made otherwise) and nor is eithe an attactive market.
I’m not sure how getting a Chris Kaman AND Trevor Ariza can ‘stink of the rotten moves…”. Both players are solid, significant upgrades to what we have, fill gaping wholes on our roster AND should fit well with our system. As I mentioned in my earlier post, adding these types of guys with our current rookies and Andy, with another decent draft pick (even if we make the playoffs), this is a model the Pistons used and won.
OKC is a gret story and people will point to them as the model to go by, but Kevin Durrant type talent doesn’t happen often. Also, IF they would have gotten the first pick in the draft instead of the second, they would have choosen Greg Oden – so ‘luck’ plays into things as well. The last player that made such a substantial diffrence to the success of one team in such a short period of time was LeBron James. Five years ago, other teams could have pointed to the success of the Cavs in building a team.
the NUPE is the best. Period.
If we give up Razor and a very valuable 2nd round pick for this crack dealer it’s not going to end well…
agree w/ everything nupe said, except for one thing. kevin love is in the top 3 power forwards in the league, and definitely a perpetual superstar (yes he’s better than griffin right now. i’ll give you your one or two highlight dunks a game, and i’ll take the more complete, fundamentally sound player who is a better rebounder, passer, and shooter. yes please)
but onto the topic… initially I was surprised and discouraged by the Kaman rumor, but the more I think about it the more I am on board. Yes it’s just a rumor, but it’s fun to discuss anyway. Kaman would make this team better immediately, and assuming we wouldn’t have to give up Andy, he could finally shift back to his natural position at the 4. Kaman + Andy + TT of the bench is a good core of bigs. I don’t see either of Kaman’s or Andy’s games declining much over the next 3-4 years, and it would be great to have some veterans on this team to help lead the young guys.
There would be no reason for the Hornets to do it, but I would love just a straight up Kaman for Jamison deal. Both expiring, and we would instantly be a better team both by subtraction and by Kaman’s occasionally solid play… I am also all for getting rid of Sessions in almost any way possible, but I don’t want Ariza’s contract. He really is a stupid offensive player. I dislike stupidity in my players. A lot of what Nupe said was good, but Casspi at SG is totally impossible. He would get absolutely torched by shooting guards off the dribble since practically the entire league is starting Combo guards at the 2 these days.
If you get rid of Sessions then you have no other PG to back up Irving. Is Irving going to play 48 minutes? Gibson is the only player who can be considered to play PG, and he is a terrible ball handler/passer. And for what, a third SF? None of those guys would play SG. So now you have 3 SF and 1 PG.
quick point on wolves and pacers as good models:
even if we concede they are good models (nupe makes a good counter-argument though), the discussion so far has completely ignored the scores of examples of teams that tried to rebuild through the lottery and utterly failed. for every durant and westbrook, there are 2-3 darius mile’s, diop’s, okafor’s, oden’s, etc. building wholly through the lottery is very very risk.
given that kyrie looks legit, i think we now have a lot of options on how to build. we can gather mid 1st rounders, we can sign role players, we can puruse trades, etc. we don’t need to tank and gamble on a lottery pick.
But this would be a very good season to tank. No pressure, no expectations, good draft.
It’s important that we get at least one more top level pick before going all in around Kyrie. If he’s as good as we think, we won’t get many opportunities to get a high pick again.