As fate would have it, I’m moving to a different apartment today and Colin is ridiculously busy at the moment, but the Cavs have reportedly traded J.J. Hickson for Omri Casspi. I’ll have a full writeup up tonight, but for now I like the move — the Cavs desperately needed a young wing, the frontcourt was getting a bit crowded, and I’d pretty much given up on Hickson hitting his “ceiling.” Again, more coming tonight.
In my opinion we just traded NewDrew and that’s all right by me.
Clearly, a better player than Amar’e
Stagnant player from a position where we are stong for a decent player at a position where we are weak and a first rounder. I like it. Who starts at PF now? Antawn with Andy at center?
Nice move. Covering a need and getting a likely early first round pick in the draft. Hope there’s no lottery protection on it…
There’s a ton of lottery protection on the pick, unfortunately. It’s basically either lottery or top 10 protected until 2017. Still, it should allow us to get a potential starter in addition to a solid role player in Casspi.
Remember, we still have the rights to some of the Heat’s 1st rounders, which would be good to package with this Kings pick to move into the top 10 in a given year’s draft.
Co-Sign on liking this deal, though I kinda feel bad JJ will be getting 2.4 shots/game next year. Somehow I think he will be below Tyreke, DMC & the Jimmer on the ol’ usage chart
for the Cavs, it’ll be nice to have an NBA SF again, and as a former member of Cleveland’s Jewish community here’s hoping they’ll pick up some extra tickets! Some more good solid theme nights coming if there is a season
How in the world do you guys actually like this deal? Really feels like the typical reaction from my fellow Cleveland fan — love every move we make. Dumb deal. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
I’d love this if there wasn’t a protected lottery pick involved, but even so we know what Casspi is and can become and who knows what you’ll get with a lottery pick.
I think JJ ran his course in Cleveland, next year (if there is a next year) he would’ve clashed with Scott again even though he has no clout to actually do so. He may become a monster in Sacramento someday, but probably not.
Also, enough of the Amare crap. I refuse to believe that the Cavs said no to that and would bet everything that the Suns just wouldn’t pull the trigger.
I’m the biggest fan of hoping that JJ pullled through and became consistent, because he was about all we had to hope for last year. I wish him all the best in the new location and will genuinely pull for him in the future. This move further strengthened the “defensive toughness” theme that has taken hold in Cleveland.
Hahaha, the guy that wrote that write-up actually thinks JJ can play the 3. What a joke.
I’m ok with the trade.
We have enough pf’s and Omri can play incredibly great off the ball which will be a plus in this offense.
I do think we could had probably gotten a bit more for JJ but its all a matter of time now.
I’m happy with this trade, getting a SF (which we need) and giving up a PF (which we have plenty of – including our new #4 overall pick).
I don’t understand why people keep on bringing up the Amare trade. a) we aren’t clear on who backed out and what the entire deal was b) we weren’t sure how long Amares back or eyes would make it c) JJ seemed like his cieling was so high and with his continued development – we could be giving up the better player during the course of his career.
As it turns out, seems like JJ’s small hands, and lack of understanding our offense has critically limited his growth. It also turns out that Amare is a beast again (which wasn’t certain). Based on what we know now, we should have made that trade (if we could have), but based on what we knew then, I’m not so sure all the risk were worth it.
This seems to be the deal on the pick protection:
2012 first round draft pick to Cleveland (top-14 protected in the 2012 Draft, top-13 protected in 2013, top-12 protected in 2014, top-10 protected in 2015, top-10 protected in 2016 and top-10 protected in the 2017 Draft) If Cleveland has not received a first round pick from Sacramento by 2017, then Sacramento shall convey their own 2017 2nd round draft pick to Cleveland provided it is within the top-55 picks. If it is not, then Sacramento’s obligation to Cleveland shall be extinguished.
In two years; can Tyreke Evans, DeMarcus Cousins, John Salmons, Jimmer Fredette, JJ Hickson, Francisco Garcia, Tyler Honeycutt, and a 2012 lottery pick be the 14th worst team in basketball?
If it’s Casspi and the 15th pick in 2013, I’m probably OK with the trade. If it turns into the Kings second round pick in 2017…not so sure. They Cavs could have 14 draft picks in the next 4 years (plus the two new rookies). They’ll definitely have some flexibility for trades in the next couple years.
Like the trade as well. Hick son’s stats were empty, and his faults outweighed what he did bring to the table. He was going to want way too much money, so it was either move him or lose him.
The Cavs did not back out of the Amar’e trade. The Suns did. This a fact.
My biggest concern is that the Cavs didn’t get the best valuable possible. And I’m not indicating they didn’t get the best value possible at this moment in time.
Last year was definitely a down year for Hickson and didn’t help his value. When Hickson played last year without Baron Davis (1989 minutes), he averaged 17.2 points per 36 minutes with 46% fgs. When Hickson played with Davis (267 minutes), he averaged 20.8 pp36 with 52% fgs. What if by the all-star break next year, Hickson was putting up a hollow 18 points & 10 rebounds instead of this years 14 & 8.5? What could the Cavs have gotten for him? I’m am making two big assumptions here…that there is a next year and that Baron Davis doesn’t come back from the lockout weighing 300 lbs. Hickson could have drawn more next year after a half year of playing with Davis and Irving.
The sample size for the Hickson numbers is small, so I’ll also point out that Blake Griffin scored an extra 2 pp36 and shot 2% better on fgs with Davis than without Davis. Having a capable point guard helps.
Typical reaction to a Cavs move by me when I first heard:
1) Are you kidding me?
2) I’m disowning this team
3) OK, it’s not completely terrible
4) I could see it working
Like everything else, time will tell. Say we kept him, then there was a season long lockout, then he left for nothing, we would all be clamoring about how we should have dealt him while we had the chance.
Like everything in the NBA right now this trade is overshadowed by the looming specter of the lockout. I think J.J. could have been a good player (always had a higher ceiling than Gooden). Remember, he would have been a senior in college last year. I really think in the right situation he could turn a corner. Unfortunately, that situation is not Sacramento.
As for Casspi, I really have no idea. He seems to be a decent shooter, and the minutes will be there at 2 guard.
Ugh. Just awful.
I don’t think J.J. was the key to this team’s future. Obviously the team didn’t feel that way either. But still, he was a 22-year old beast who just averaged 14 and 9. He was a young player who improved every year. He had value. Whether as part of our future big man rotation, as insurance on Tristan Thompson, or as a chip in a good trade. J.J. had value, and we squandered it.
Rest assured, we will never get a first-round pick from Sacramento. Without protections, this would have been a decent trade. But even if they move to the East, that team has no shot of making the playoffs in the next five years. So we got a second rounder in 2017. Worthless.
We’re building our core NOW. We need first round picks now, and young guys with upside.
Omri Casspi is, first of all, a much worse player than J.J. Hickson. His PER is 4 points lower, and he’s considered a poor defender as far as I know. (It’s not a good sign that he struggled to get playing time on the Kings, and his position was considered a major need for them on draft night.) He’s also a year older than J.J. And he’s failed to improve since he came into the league.
I know that we have a “hole” at SF. But we need to be finding long-term answers at our positions of need, not trying to plug holes for the sake of achieving mediocrity. If Casspi isn’t our “SF of the future”, then I’d rather let that hole fester until we can assess our options in next year’s draft. If we’re staring Harrison Barnes in the face come next June, then Casspi will be pretty irrelevant, no matter how much he improves. (And even worse if he improves and ruins our chances of getting Harrison Barnes.)
Full disclosure: I’m really passionate about the political situation in Israel/Palestine, so I have to admit to some prejudice against Jewish Israelis who don’t come out against the apartheid situation there. I don’t want Cavs games to become venues for the expression of an ugly ethno-nationalism.
And I do like the fact that Casspi is a good rebounder for his position, and has shot the 3 fairly well (though inconsistently). He is still young and could become a good role player.
But I’m really starting to question management’s long-term plan. We got another forward (who also struggles at the FT line), and “filled” another forward spot. How are they planning to find building blocks at off-guard and center when next year’s draft lottery is shaping up to be practically all forwards? Why would you ever pass on a chance to draft a stalwart/franchise center? (Who just dominated the American U19 team by the way, including the 2012 draft’s top center prospect Patric Young — Valanciunas can definitely play.) If we’re building a young core through the draft as we should be, then everything the team’s done since drafting Kyrie Irving makes no sense to me.
Sorry, the minutes will be there at SF.
Ok let’s make one thing clear. The Kings rotation at SF was awful last year. Paul Westphaul managed the minutes worse than Lenny Dykstra managed his bank account. If you don’t believe me take a look for yourself. Cassipi, Donte Green and Francisco Garcia all started games for one reason or another. As a young player, consistent playing time is key for development. It is unfair to pull a player out of the lineup due to a short cold stretch. This kills confidence in almost all cases. Also, since Omeri was the first Israeli born player, his first year over he was hounded by the media at every stop. His November numbers as a rook were pretty damn good. Later in the season, after the kings failed to properly manage his PR appearances, he dropped off a tad bit. I’m not saying he is necessarily the answer for us, but it’s worth a shot. He is tall (6’9″) can shoot the corner three extremely well, is athletic enough to guard 2-4 and can be a stretch 4 if we go small. Anyone who knocks on his D has not watched closely enough. He is a great help defender and has the energy/tenacity to turn into a lock down defender. This deal would be phenomenal is the pick was unprotected. Alas , that is not the case but I’m willing to give Omeri the benefit of the doubt. I have a feeling he will be one of B Scott’s favorite players in no time at all.
I have mixed feelings about the deal. Casspi is clearly a worse player than JJ, and the lottery protection seriously lowers the value of the pick. However, looking at JJ’s contract situation, it did seem like the cavs would have to overpay to keep him, so in all likelihood he wouldn’t be around. Not a bad deal overall, but it’s hard to get too excited about a mid to late first round pick.
The Amare argument is just silly. It certainly sounds like the Suns backed out of the deal, and I’m sure any reluctance to deal JJ was based on the fear of Amare leaving after the season, not any belief that JJ is more talented. If the cavs had traded him for Amare, they likely would have lost them both, and would be in an even worse position now.
@Robin
First of all, I don’t think it’s relevant to say that because he’s Israeli, Cavaliers fans will carry their political opinions to the stadium with them. It’s hard to play that card, especially in the NBA. But since we’re hear to talk about sports, I think it’s best we just stay off of that topic.
I don’t care who we get in the draft next year, as long as it’s somebody good. Be he a shooting guard (Austin Rivers), small forward (Harrison Barnes) or center (Patric Young). The fact that we filled the hole before it became a big problem is relieving. We’re probably not going to be the worst team in the league next season. Casspi is a pretty good defender, and can rebound and shoot the three when he gets into a good rebounder. Think of him as a younger, slightly bigger Anthony Parker. He’s never going to dominate, but a solid starter or role player.
He struggled to get minutes in Sacramento not because he wasn’t good, but because he didn’t perform very well when he was on the floor. It’s hard to accurately tell how good he can be because he was on a team with a bunch of ball hogs. So we’ll have to see.
I wish JJ well but as a Cavs fan I always wanted to think he’d develop into a beast but the fact was… he sucked.
Look at these numbers…
Offensive Win Shares (-0.2). – Sasha Pavlovic on the T-Wolves thinks thats bad.
eFG% – .458. Ranked 13th on the team
1.1ast to 2.2 Turnovers – ouch
Win Shares per 48 min – 0.032 (Ranked 11th on the Cavs)
The fact that we parlayed him a decent second half of rebound and scoring (albeit inefficently) for a rotation player and a (hopefully) future first rounder is pretty astounding.
I think the Cavs management realized he wasnt good enough offensively to be at least a 3rd option on a good team. I mean quite honestly he was atrocious on offense but the old adage is any NBA player that gets 35minutes on a bad team can score 15 pts applied with him.
Good trade in my book alhough Cleveland.com commenters im sure think its horrible.
I dont know that Casspi is “much worse” than Hickson. I’m not even sure he’s worse. If you look at strictly stats, that’s the conclusion you’d come to. However, in this case, stats lie.
Why is everyone crying over J.J.’s departure when we are still soaring tall in the frontcourt beast department? Show a little respect for RYAN HOLLINS who is going to be throwing down monster alley-oops from his fellow Bruin Baron Davis in the Q!
I know nothing about Thompson but he can’t be any thicker than J.J. I saw the Cavs play the Mavs live last year and J.J. couldn’t even muster much attention during the team huddles. (Having Mo Williams standing around collecting his pay check after ten minutes of play and not being in the huddle wasn’t very encouraging either — and that was in the post-LeBron era. What I mean is that LeBron wasn’t the only person responsible for a weak-minded team culture.)
And, along the same lines, this new cat has got to be better than Jamario Moon, ok? So the Cavs are getting better, tougher, and more international. Who can complain?
PLAYOFFS 2013 and two first round victories over a team like the Pacers or the Sixers is about as much as we fans can hope for. In the meantime we are still going to get slaughtered regularly by the Bulls, Heat, Celtics, Hawks, most of the Western Conference, and even occasionally by our peer teams such as the Kings, Clippers, and Wizards. Cavs fans are so used to greatness that it is still sinking in that, whereas we were built in 2010 to beat Orlando, in 2012 we need to build to beat Detroit.
And PLEASE DO NOT TRADE FOR RIP HAMILTON, EVER. But Ben Wallace can be a Cav again anytime. Thanks.
Welcome to Sacramento J.J Hickson , you going to love it in Sacramento. Sacramento got the better deal! Love it! in Petrie we trust! GO KINGS!
Show Ryan Hollins respect? Ben Wallace is welcome back to any team? That’s some world-class trolling, Johnny.