The good news is the good news; The Cavs made the right choice with the #1 pick. Irving is ultra-safe, he has more upside/star potential than he’s being given credit for, and there’s a clear plan in place for him. He can platoon with Baron in order to keep some pressure off of him for the first year, take the lion’s share of the minutes from Baron in the second year, and fully take over in year three. And with Irving’s ability to shoot, I have no doubt that Baron and Irving will both be on the floor to finish the games, which is far more important than who starts. The Cavs got the best player in the draft. That’s a good thing.
Now, about that Tristan Thompson pick. What the heck. I see three basic scenarios for why the Cavs decided to go with Thompson:
1. The Cavs picked Thompson for someone else, with the belief that they would be able to trade back, still get Jonas, and get another pick to boot.
This has been the main theory in the comments, and it seems to make sense. Because of the buyout, it looked like Jonas would be available in the 7-10 range, where Thompson was expected to go. Grant may well have had a deal in place with one of those teams, picked Thompson for them, and then got a sharp shock when the Raptors passed on Knight, Walker, and Biyombo to take Big V. (Turns out the Raptors’ new coach actually realizes that having a true center who plays defense is a GOOD thing in the NBA.) Not good GM work. Not good GM work at all.
2. The Cavs weren’t willing to wait a year for Valanciunas, and wanted to give the fans something in 2011-12 after an abysmal 2010-11 campaign.
I give Gilbert and Co. credit, because I don’t buy this theory. Thompson isn’t anyone’s definition of a sexy pick, and by all accounts he’s too much of a project to step in and make the Cavs significantly better this season. If they wanted to go the “exciting, win now” route, they would’ve taken Williams with the #1 and Kemba/Knight with the #4. I think the Cavs tried to do what was best for the team going forward, not what was best for ticket sales in the long-term.
3. The Cavaliers honestly believe that Tristan Thompson is a better prospect than Jonas Valanciunas.
Maybe this is what Chris Grant and Co. believe, and they have more scouting information than I do, but I would disagree with that assessment. Thompson can’t play center, can’t shoot or score in the post, doesn’t pass, draws a lot of fouls, is a serious shot-blocker, and is a great rebounder.
The Cavs certainly needed a shot in the arm when it came to defense and rebounding, but I have no earthly idea how a Varejao (who is Cleveland’s best player)/Thompson frontcourt is supposed to work. Andy can play the center position, but he’s better as a four, and needs someone who can either stretch the floor, post-up and give him opportunities to cut, or make good cuts himself and let Andy operate from the high post. Thompson can do none of those things.
The Cavs came into this draft with one really good player under the age of 30, and that player is a great defense-and-rebounding power forward. With a top-5 pick, they took a defense-and-rebounding power forward instead of a potential franchise center who is a true seven-footer, had a higher overall FG% than Thompson did on shots at the rim, and makes 85-90% of his free throws instead of 48% of them. I’m having a hard time selling myself on this pick.
The Cavs got the best player in the draft and got a defensive upgrade that they desperately needed, but I can’t help but feel like they royally screwed up the Valanciunas situation and missed a great chance to put two core pieces in place for the future. However, we won’t know any of this until we actually see Thompson on the floor next season, assuming there is one, and Valanciunas on the floor in 2012-13, assuming he comes over. For now, the team is better today than it was yesterday. The only problem is that it’s hard to shake the feeling they could have done a lot better in this draft.
there is no xcuse for what happened tonight, and anyone who thinks otherwise should go root for buffalo
enough with this b.s., they blew the tpe and 2 high loTtery picks. this will NEVER BE COMPETITIVE AGAIN
My thoughts exactly. I hope what happened is closest to #3 and the Cavs’ brass just really believed Thompson was the guy. If he can become the next Amare with a defensive edge, then they made the right choice.
I believed, mistakenly, for almost a yea, that the franchise had SOME sort of plan to use that TPE. There are worse things they can do besides letting it expire (trading for Iggy, etc.), but yeah, it looks like Grant got played like a fiddle here. It’s not like Thompson’s a bad player, he’s just redundant, and horrible value for the #4 slot. If there’s not a trade with the TPE soon, I’m going to be smoldering for months. Staring down the lockout would have been much, much easier if it felt like we did a good job in the draft.
Tristan Thompson “Lebron is like a big brother to me” hahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha
Like I said in the other thread, explain to me the theory of how this was supposed to be a trade chip. Who was the partner? Were the Cavs supposed to be getting him for Charlotte? They’d already traded #19 to the Bucks, so what assets do they even have? Also, why would Charlotte give us anything to get Thompson for them. Washington had already signaled they were going to take Vesely, and indications were Toronto had their eyes on Knight, Biyombo or potentially JV. Was the partner Detroit? Again, for what additional assets? These are two of the most stripped teams in the league. And neither is probably too excited to part with future picks to move up a couple spots. In the case of Detroit you at least have the plausible worry that Charlotte would nab Thompson before them. Still, until I hear even an unnamed source claiming they have info on what was going on I think these rumors are hogwash. The Cavs have had Thompson in for multiple workouts and an interview with the owner. You can say it’s a dumb pick, but I think we should be debating it on its own merits. Say they were swayed too much by workouts, by stats, by interviews. At least make an argument (as Krolik makes in point 3).
As far as that Andy point goes, I think the reality is that Andy is not long for this Cavalier world. If he can get healthy he’s got the most value of any trade chip the Cavs had on their roster until today. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them use him at the deadline to try and move into next year’s draft. Though they probably won’t be able to convince anyone to give them an unprotected pick this time.
Wow I feel like we just drafted another Luke Jackson or Dajaun Wagner with the Thompson pick. Seriously C’mon
He has at least the same ceiling JJ Hickson does. Hickson averaged a double-double per night in Scott’s system. In my opinion, I’d rather have gotten the Hickson redudancy than Minnesota’s Williams’ redundancy. Two JJ Hicksons sounds better than two Michael Beasly’s. In all honesty, Andy and Hickson are probably both on the trading block. Don’t get me wrong, I love both of those guys, but we should be looking to get younger and build a championship team like the Thunder.
At any rate, I would’ve liked to have gotten Jonas too, but I’m not really that devastated. The Cavs saw something in Thompson, what it was, I’m not sure any of us will know. There are stats and information that you and Idont have access to, Grant has already done some pretty great things for the team (we netted Kyrie Irving because of him) and now you want to fire him?
Give me a break, there’s a reason he’s in New Jersey and you guys are on your computers speculating. I’m not saying he’s unquestionably right, but give him the benefit of the doubt until we’re proven otherwise. We’re going to get better and we’re going to get competitive, right now we have worry about improving the team, I believe that at the very least, like John said, were a better team,and that’s what matters.
@krolik
yr completely over-rating jonas. i applaud the cavs for taking BPA. TT’s advance stats project him to be the best forward/big man available in this draft. jonas is a bust waiting to happen.
i wish people would get it through their skulls that you take BPA and not need! kevin johnson, anyone? sheesh…
To amend my comment above, I’d just like to add that I’m not saying in any way that JJ isn’t young, but I think he has a much higher perceived value league wide. In all honesty though, if he doesn’t net us a starting wing player, then we’ll keep him and then either trade him or let him walk when he demands big money knowing that we may have a guy of equal or possible greater value waiting to take his place.
In one sense I think a rebuilding team needs to follow a Thunder standard. Get you PG because that is what scott’s system needs, and then take the best projected player to try out.
Let’s face it, JJ is good, but he is not developing some of the skills he needs to be a beast. It is almost better to use him as a small Center for now because he needs to be near the basket. I don’t mind this pick, and I think the cabs should continue to draft in this way. Get the best possible, keep plugging at it.
One last thing, I don’t think we can rush to criticize Grant. This could have had more to do with Gilbert and I still think the tPE may be used
Hollinger rated him as #3 prospect in the draft. Let’s at least give him a chance
First, the Cavaliers did what they had to with the #1 pick… I think a majority of people following the draft would have projected Knight to go #3 to the Jazz. Williams and Knight (or even Kemba) would have been really fun. And, I love Kemba – everyon always talks about intangibles and he has them all, yet fell like a rock after carrying his team to a Championship. If I had my choice (knowing what I do now), I would have taken Williams, Big V, then found some way to get Kemba through trade. But, I am OK with Irving…
Second, the #4 pick is baffling, but I will hope the Cavs are much smarter than me. I agree with everyone else’s comments on TT, no need to repeat. I just kept thinking “cool, we’ll trade him and Sessions/Hickson to someone (maybe Charlotte), and pick up their picks”. Then those pesky Raptors took Big V, and I just realized I was in idiot because of course, Charlotte just traded up, we passed on someone the Spurs organization valued (Big V), took a pick that MJ valued (TT – see all of MJ’s draft history), then they go and reach on a 6’7″ Ben Wallace without the intimidating hair from Congo.
I still hope that we get some kind of center somewhere, even if we have to try to get *gulp* Greg *my knees are broken* Oden. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I think everyone has been over-valuing point guards who can score in recent years… Who are the only legit points to win recently? Kidd (in his late 30′s, 10 ppg), Fisher (also older, not a true scorer), Rondo (not a scorer). They all make everyone around them better. I sure hope Irving has the same effect.
i think we really thought we had a trade in place with the wizards and big V would drop to 6.
for the sake of everything good, lets hope that big V is a bust.
Not to late to trade
Let’s just get honest here for a second.
JJ Hickson is not very good. He’s not. Sometimes he can play well, but he doesn’t appear to totally comprehend the offense or defense, ever. He MAY in the future, but probably not. You can call the pick redundant or whatever, but then your assuming that you can plug JJ in for playing at a high level for years to come, cause you can’t. I’m sorry, but picking a guy at #4 who may not show up just seems silly and too risky. You pick guys who may stay in europe at the end of the first, not at the 4th pick. When you are (one of the two) worst teams in the league, you take the two best players you see, you don’t worry about fit, and you move on from there. This team has started a long, slow process, and that’s that. You don’t use the TPE just to use it.
I applaud Grant for taking two of the highest character and talent guys in the draft, regardless of position. Look at Hollinger’s piece on him. You won’t feel as sick to the stomach as you do now. 2-12 were all 50/50 shots, so if we trust the Cavs management (which I do), I’ll trust what they decided is the right pick.
Would anyone be up for an AV + JJ + Trade Exception trade to the Lakers for Bynum? Would the Lakers even be up for that?
My two hopes for this draft were:
1) Enes fell to us at #4.
2) If he didn’t fall to us, we didn’t over-react, panic, and heavily reach for a guy in a position of need.
… Instead we over-reacted, panicked, and heavily reached for a guy that plays the only position we have depth in.
Guys, JJ Hickson is not going to be part of the long-term solution for the Cavaliers. We all know this. He’s in the last year of his rookie deal, and we weren’t going to use our cap space on him. In fact, no one on the current roster (with the POSSIBLE exception of Varejao, although I think he’s likely to be dealt, too) is part of the long-term solution. It would make NO SENSE for the Cavs to draft with an eye to the current roster. So don’t complain that TT is redundant with JJ — there will be no overlap by the time this team is competitive again.
Maybe you agree with that logic and still think TT was a bad pick. That’s fine. None of us are scouts; we just don’t know. Give the kid (and the front office) a chance.
At first I was a little freaked out too…but the Cavs worked him out several times and the ESPN trade reviewers are not shocked at all by this pick. Did I hear Hollinger had him at #3? Not sure if that is pick 3 or 3rd best guy.
Anyways, like said above, the only guys under long term contract are Andy and Eyenga. Andy has trade value. So basically Eyenga is the only guy that might be around the next time the Cavs enter the post season. TT can take any role he fits. And let’s not worry about how terrible the Cavs will look this year.
Wow… so many are overreacting. I’m glad there are some calm people posting… Obviously we aren’t going to go into the season, whenever it starts, with our current roster. We have a huge log jam at PF and a smaller one at PG. I see Sessions, hopefully Jamison and maybe even Hickson moved. I would really like to see us get a Center so we are able to put Andy back at his proper 4 position. (I would love to bring Oden’s shaky knees in) Tristan remninds me a lot of Taj Gibson. I see no problem with having a young big that is athletic and cares about defense. He was a decent shooter before his growth spurt, so one would think he will be able to get it back a bit. No matter what, we don’t know if it was a bad pick and won’t know for a couple years. Let’s chill out a second.
So if JJ isn’t part of the long-term solution for this team… then why would TT be part of the long-term solution? He’s 6’8″ and has no jumper! There is no defending this pick.
As I said earlier… Chris Singleton… who’s an incomplete player… is NBA ready than TT
Pretty bummed on the outcome here, but then I bought fully into the Jonas/Enes hype. Will take time to recalibrate. I especially liked the idea of the JV pick because I firmly believe that we need to royally suck at least one more year and him polishing up in Europe would help. We really need an elite player and unfortunately that player wasn’t in this draft. Can’t move into the contending phase in the NBA without an elite player otherwise it’s just wasting everyone’s time.
That said – looks like we’re in for more rebuilding than I thought. I’ve been on the trade Andy train for a long time and was hoping we’d net some real value here. Love the guy but he’s hit his ceiling and won’t be part of the resurgent Cavs. I also thought JJ was going to be part of the core, even if he had certain limitations. Now he looks to be a goner as well. When people say that we need to get younger and rebuild, I’m not sure that necessitates shipping a supremely athletic 23yrold with who’s shown real promise (even if inconsistent).
I won’t overreact and call for Grant’s head. Let’s see what he can cook up with the TPE and a host of potentially attractive assets to sell. But i’ve got two real worries that he picked a bad year to get smart 1) The impending lockout will really limit the time he has to wheel and deal and will trade partners hesitant to swing big deals 2) the CBA and certain hardcap will likely reduce the value of some of our trade assets. I’m always on the lookout for a miracle thought…
Everyone keeps talking about “Hollinger”… “Hollinger” said that Singleton is unquestionably the best Defensive player in the draft… isn’t TT all defense? I’m baffled.
Fans know it all, right? Let’s just allow the damn team to play and make an assessment after a year.
Thompson looks like a solid pick to me. He’ll be able to finish on the break, play defense, and hopefully not have the mental lapses that JJ does. Also, he probably doesn’t have JJ’s tiny hands to continuously fumble the ball out of bounds when under the hoop.
If you put any stock in advanced statistics/analytics and whatever, then this was a strong draft for Cleveland. I think Grant is a solid GM, so I’m not dismissing this draft until we see the guys play.
As far as long term success, I think this could work out. Our record probably won’t improve very much, so we can expect a high lottery pick in 2012 to get a stud SG like Austin Rivers or to pair Kyrie with his buddy Harrison Barnes. Could be a bright future ahead…and now we don’t have to worry about whether or not some skinny 7-foot Euro will flop in the NBA.
I feel like they were pretty sure that Kanter was going to be there at #4 and that is the guy they wanted. When he got picked it sent the draft room into red alert and they just picked the next best big man who was sure to play next year. I wish they would have swung a trade to get up and get Kanter at 2 or 3 because didn’t think the jazz would pass on him.
Now hopefully Grant can do something with the TPE. Maybe take a bad contract and a draft pick from someone…or a bad contract and a decent prospect. Personally, I think we should swallow a bad contract from Orlando and heist a future 1st round pick…their picks will be quite valuable after Dwight leaves. Or take Rashard Lewis from Washington along with a 2012 pick, that sort of thing.
And seriously, am I the only one who is a little relieved we don’t have to worry about some unproven Euro developing into a solid player? We still took 2 players who were born outside the states, but they seem to be much more proven.
I’ve finally come around to the fact that Tristan Thompson wasn’t much of a reach at #4. However, I still have some questions that will hopefully be answered within the next week.
1) This year had two good C prospects. The 2012 draft has none. Why didn’t we pick up one this year when we had the chance? Does this mean we could possibly be trading Varejao to the Lakers for Bynum?
2) I’m really confused with the Hickson situation. He’s 22 years old and spent the last half of the season averaging a double-double, yet he isn’t in our long term plans? I don’t think TT or JJ should be spending any time at center, so JJ will probably be traded. Can we at least get good value for him?
3) The TPE. Was there absolutely no one outside the top 5 that was worth a few million dollars? I am baffled that after a whole year we weren’t able to use this huge asset, especially right before the lockout when owners want to dump salary. This is my biggest complaint.
4) We have a surplus of PFs and PGs. Who will be traded and who will stay? Will any of these trades fill the gaping hole at the SG, SF, and C positions?
I love what the Cavs did here. Irving will go along great with B. Scott and B. Davis. I’m thrilled we won’t have to worry about an International player making it to the NBA game. The odds are NOT in our favor if we went that route.
Go watch video of Thompson. He’ll be a good running partner for Kyrie. We weren’t going to be able to turn it around with one more pick. We’ll make some moves, have an average year, and kill it in the draft next year. THATS what’s going to turn us around.
Keith knows what I’m talking about.
These were solid picks…what did you all expect. This Valucinaidsnfsa or whatever the hell his name is, will be a bust and forgotten. Name the last Euro big man to really be good thats been hyped up? Dirk which was 13 yrs ago and maybe Gasol which was years ago as well. All these Euro big men are soft never rebound and stand around the perimeter taking 20 footers. They are all stiffs. Sure T. Thompson doesnt have much of a offnesive game but who else was really there? This was a weak draft to begin with and only one maybe two standout players. The Cavs will be solid this coming year but nothing great. I predict 28-32 wins next year and another top 10 pick in the draft.
Let’s hope TT can “finish” with a dunk, otherwise, he’ll be hacked all day long with a sub-50% FT%. I think anyone can improve, but how many college players who came into the NBA sub-50% FT% ended with anything higher than a respectable 70+%? He won’t play in the 4th quarter if he remains at 50%. I will hold out hope, and I think there are 1-2 trades/moves that will happen before the TPE runs out. We can’t go without any true center (or Ryan Hollins), and have 3 PF’s and 3 PG’s who want time on the floor… I think you can get Oden cheaper than Bynum – let alone Bynum probably wouldn’t be happy in Cleveland anyway.
Just thought of this… If Kanter was available and we picked him #4, would the Raps had picked TT instead, opening up a trade possibility for Big V….?
Good thing is we should be picking in the top ten next draft.
Don’t understand the hating on J.J. Thought he “got it” later in the last year. Remember, last year would’ve been his senior year in College. How long did it take Jermaine O’Neal to become a good player in the NBA? 4 years? Also, the Amare Comparisons are ridiculous. Amare is/was 6’10″ when he came in the league, and at least shot a not abysmal 66% from the line.
I just can’t figure out a player who compares to Tristan who is good in the NBA. MAYBE
Jay Bilas on Tristan Thompson: “He just needs to learn how to play and how to score,” Bilas says. The sports guy,”I think I need more from my fourth pick than that sentence. Weird choice. Or, this draft is horrible. One or the other.” It’s a bit of both, but ye gods. Why do I think this will forever go down as the draft that the Cavs could’ve gotten Brandon Knight and Derrick Williams?
Someone please answer this question:
Is A. Verajeo enough to get us greg oden?
If not, is a marcin gortat type player valuable enough as a 7 footer for us to trade Anderson for?
Chris Grant is quoted today saying, “we had him ranked much higher than 4th.” If he’s serious, then I guess that means TT and Derrick Williams were neck-and-neck in the Cavs’ evaluation until they saw them both at the workouts, which edged TT into the number 2 spot. This makes me feel a little better — that they made the pick for the right reasons, even if they may be completely off their rocker. I’m guessing they see TT as something like the next Ben Wallace, though I don’t know how you can confidently project that type of player. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2011/news/story?id=6701376