The Cavs passed on Jonas Valanciunas and drafted Tristan Thompson. Here is our draft profile on Tristan Thompson. I do not like this pick.
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Colin McGowan is the editor in chief of Cavs: The Blog. He has written for Deadspin, Sports on Earth, and The Classical. You can contact him at colinsilasmcgowan@gmail.com or on Twitter @cs_mcgowan.
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can we all just agree that this drafting pattern means hickson or varejao (at least one of them) are not in our long term plans. and in that case spending the 4 on a pf is understandable with how thin and injury prone our frontcourt was.
Alright so Grant is like Kahn except with powerforwards. Thats just great
The good news is we now have enough bodies for “Power Forward Giveaway Night” at the Q.
Whenever the next season starts, it’s pretty clear Samuels will not be on the 15-man roster at all (no great loss there), and either Hickson or Jamison (preferably Jamison, but probably Hickson) will have been traded. And Varejao’s going to have to suck it up and play center at least one more year. So the short-term logjam’s not as great as it appears now. Long-term, Bob’s comment seems on point that the Cavs have decided against giving a big contract extension to Hickson; and if they’ve concluded his jumper, defense and mental focus aren’t likely to improve much more over where they are right now, that’s a reasonable decision.
Tristan wasn’t a name commonly talked about this high. But, Hollinger ranked him as the 3rd best player in the draft (after Irving and Williams) and Ford ranked him #6. So taking him @4 when Irving, Williams and Kanter were gone – and not taking JV because the buyout. You could make the argument they took the best player available.
Yes, there are other players I would have liked to see us pick, mainly a SF like ‘the other JV’, but I had confidence in Grant before this draft so I’m going to keep that trust and see what he comes up with once it’s over. Trade JJ seems to be the reasonable guess, but to whom and for whom is the question.
Chris Singleton would have been a better pick than Thompson if we were going for defense. Singleton is the same height/wingspan and essentially same stats (except Singleton shot 36% from 3… Thompson didn’t take any).
Except that Singleton can defend 4 positions, has a jumper with potential and was the unquestioned heart and soul of his team.
Grant at least deserves the benefit of the doubt unless & until proven wrong. Although when I saw that JV was right behind TT in the Hollinger ratings, though, some of that reassurance was lost. If these guys are close to even in terms of upside, in general taking the 7-footer seems like the way to go when there’s no potential franchise center on the roster. Is waiting one year for a buyout to happen really that much of a sacrifice when you’re not expecting to contend anytime soon? We’ll see. And . . . wait for it . . . the 54th pick is a PF too!
Think this guys one good offensive skill is getting fouled, and then shooting 48% at the line when he does. He’s a decent rebounder and shot blocker, but not good enough to take #4. We picked up a pre knee injury Josh Powell.
would love to be optimistic BUT IT IS CLEAR Grant got hosed on a potential trade. we essentially blew the gift the nba handed us. from 60 wins to the twolves in 2 years. this team is irrelevant and grant should be fired
I dont know if I can root for my favorite team anymore
It wasn’t the ideal pick, but it probably was a bit of Toronto hosing us, and also a bit of future planning for the rise of the hard cap in the NBA. Honestly, for those of you insulting the pick, yeah make your jokes, we’ve now got JJ, Andy, Jamison, the TPE, Baron Davis, Ramon Sessions, and two second round picks next season as moveable assets.
Realistically one of either Igoudala, Granger, O.J. Mayo, Rudy Gay, Monta Ellis could be coming to Cleveland. Then we snag Rivers or Barnes (depending on which player lands with us next season). One thing is for certain, I think Tristan Thompson, will be at the very least, a solid rotation guy.
sorry dude, but none and I mean none of those guys are coming to the cavs. tristan thompson was meant to go to another team for us to get Jonas and a later pick. grant proved to be amateur on draft night’
the tpe has been wasted as well
fire his as asap
this is the worst draft professional team has ever had
Given the weakness of this draft I think there are two ways you can go. Either reach for a longshot in the hopes that they will surprise you and become a star, or accept that you’re getting a lesser players and try and find someone who can be a solid role player. Thompson seems like the second strategy, and I’m fine with that. The Cavs were impressed by is work ethic and maturity, and I can see them moving on from JJ if he doesn’t improve.
I do not understand why Grant didn’t just take Jonas at #4. Just take Jonas at #4 and then Toronto would not have hosed us. He got too cute with the drafting and this hurts.
Some cold water for the notion that Thompson was an accidental pick made for a trade that fell through: Chad Ford reported this morning that the Cavs were deciding between Thompson and Big V at No. 4.
How do you fire Grant? And just how do we know he was hosed on a trade? This draft is an unknown no matter who is drafted and rebuilding is a slow process so if it takes Thompson time to develop then so be it. There is no guarantee that JV is gonna be an all-star either and at least Thompson can learn under the coaching staff unlike JV. This is gonna take years to fix, not one draft. Come on…it ain’t that bad.
it is that bad, as for the cold water, the reason we were debating tthompsn at 4 was tooo TRADE
GRANT GOT F’D, WORSE NIGHT THEN THE DECISION
The hard cap argument makes no sense because JJ’s “new” contract would be under the new hard cap. There’s no guarantee that V is an all star, but at least he gets playing time. Thompson is 4th string! Tristan Thompson is one of these guys that Hollinger’s rating system favors: forwards who get lots of blocks and rebounds and have high fg% because they never take a shot more than 3 feet from the basket. Greg Oden’s PER is always good because he rebounds and blocks shots, but PER doesn’t take into account the fact he can’t stay on the floor because he’s always in foul trouble. Think Tristan is a total statistical anomaly who gets fouled a lot but doesn’t shoot a lot. Those guys don’t fare well in the NBA because the defenses are much better and the scouting is too good. Hopefully Thompson is a workout warrior self made player, but as of now it doesn’t look good.
This doesn’t “set us back a few years” in the rebuilding process. If we can move some of our assets for a pretty good center and some picks in next years lottery, we’ll be fine. There’s still a chance we trade for one of the big guys on the market. We’re not going to fire Grant, this is the guys first draft. We may have have taken a less than ideal pick at four but we got the real prize.
You guys are arguing over who gets the better tablescraps, who cares. Taking Big V wouldn’t have set us back, oh but wait, he also was going to be overseas next season!
We got a guy that defended the second best player in the draft and made him look like a child, it’s not necessarily tremendous upside necessarily, but I still like that thought.
Chucky, Chad Ford said this morning the Cavs were trying to get an extra pick to end up with both Thompson and JV (in addition to Irving).
They couldn’t land an extra pick, so they had to choose between the two.
Yeah, you got to see how this all plays out. Admittedly, our track record isn’t great, but some moves will be made. There’s also no guarantee that Irving is going to be any good. He played 11 games so how do we know he is a “sure thing”. Winners and losers aren’t determined until a year or two down the road at the earliest. Thompson and Irving are being graded on a small sample size. And who was Thompson gonna traded for: JV and then a later pick that would have been Klay Thompson, Burks, or a Morris twin. Not sure things either.
for all the people who say that he is good at defense I have two say to you:
1. Who will he guard? To short to shut down opposing pf’s, and there is no way he can guard 3′s or 5′s.
2. If you want want defense, than pick chris singilton instead of this piece if s**t.
We should definitly trade him. I never did like thomson (he’s what, the 5th string pf!?!?) Maybe we can get a second rounder for him
The important thing is that we got Kyrie Irving. But I can’t help but be disappointed in this draft.
I don’t know how good Thompson or Valanciunas will be. But for Thompson to be a good pick he has to end up not only better than Valanciunas, but better by a wide margin. He has to be All-NBA.
You just can’t get good talent at Center. Power forward talent is fairly available. In fact, we already had some on this team. Including a guy who is pretty young. If the Cavs used a method similar to Hollinger’s draft rater, there were a few power forwards with “steal” potential later in the draft. In general, power forward is an easier position to fill with serviceable talent, but next year’s draft in particular has some marquee talent there (and not at center).
Regardless of whether either player lives up to their potential, it is disappointing just to not have hope of hitting the home run. Now we KNOW this team won’t have an all-NBA center in the pipeline, and will probably rely on stopgaps at that position (like Krstic, Perkins in OKC) if it ever builds a halfway-decent core.
And beyond that, I have concerns with Thompson that I didn’t have with Valanciunas. We’re talking about two guys with reportedly similar skills and strengths (motor, rebounding, defense, willingness to go inside). But one guy has ideal size and makes his FTs, while the other is undersized and a disaster at the line. (And as we’ve all just seen, FT shooting wins championships.) I put a lot of stock into John Hollinger’s work, but I really want to ask him what in particular his draft rater liked so much about Thompson. I dread that the answer would be “his ability to get to the line.” Not only is he unable to take advantage of that “skill”, but the “skill” itself may be predicated upon his ineptitude at the line (and opposing teams game planning around it).
If this was a failed plan to trade with Charlotte and get Valanciunas at a lower pick plus something, well then that would just be even sadder.
Also disappointed that it seems like the team basically gave up on the second round. Would have been nice to see us roll the dice on some raw prospects (like Tyler Honeycutt, Jeremy Tyler) at no risk.
there is no justifiable reason to take a role player with the number 4 pick
Grant blew it. We had the first pick and didn’t take Williams to put pressure on the next two who all had point guards to take the guy they didnt really need and then get irving with the number 4 pick.
Haha Robin. I bet Grant never realized that statistically why he was going to the line so much is because he’s being fouled on purpose. ARGH.
you call your self cleveland fans…. jv may not even play in the usa so it would of been a waisted pick. so why not get the next best player in… tt to help mode the team . grant did the best he could with this horible draft of talent
No one’s playing in the USA till at least 2012, c p.
Well, triston won’t be playing either. Most 5th string power forwards dont get much playing time
Good point by Robin on the FT drawing ability of Thompson. Would be good to examine that. But for those who are just writing off the stats without making arguments, I’m wondering exactly what do you non-statheads want us to use to measure the quality of these prospects? I’m guessing few have watched extensive game tape of Thompson, let alone Valanciunas. In terms of in-person workouts it sounds like Thompson basically blew the Cavs away. I take that with a grain of salt, but if you hate stats, then that must mean something, right? Do people want us to ignore advanced stats and just look at points and rebounds? If so, why? Hollinger’s analysis may be biased for any number of reasons, but I don’t see that many legit arguments along the lines of what Robin is making here. Most people just come in with preconceived notions of who should be picked presumably culled from various mock drafts. If height and weight are the only criteria for making a choice then why not pick Vucevic?
my point is alot of over seas guys end up being bust too, hell kanter may not pan out to being a good nba player they compare him to mehmet okur. is that somthing to be excited about. so picking up a atheletic player like tt who is compared to a lamicheal aldridge ill take that . i think we did the best we could with what was in this draft and will soon have a good young talent team with all the trade options we have, hoopsdogg.
I take your point, Matty, but I always look at a few advanced metrics that give you a better look at what kind of player a guy is. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-the-2011-Big-Men-Crop-3754/ is a very good example. Tristan Thompson is a terrible shooter, turnover prone, a bad defensive rebounder. He has 4 skills, and none of them are GREAT: straight line drives, drawing fouls, offensive rebounds, and blocking shots. He is a terrible fourth pick. An individual workout should be a validation of what your scouting and the stats bear out, not the end all be all. Guys have bad days, off days. One guy might be on while another might be off. You can’t base a #4 pick off one workout. He’s not even the best defensive prospect. That would be Biyambo or Kenneth Fareed, who I’d wager will both be better players. The pick literally makes zero sense. He’s a project/roleplayer and is an undersized one at that.
kenneth fareed is 6’7 thats undersized as well, beyambo well dont know to much about him but as i did my comparison aldridge came into the nba with none of the big stats, too know he’s hitting 15-20ft jumpers and can say the same about stodemire, just a althete who they will develope . not saying tt will be that good but they did predict him being in the top 7 picks. so the work out thing must of went well
Ok, now we’re talking. Agreed that the aggregated measure Hollinger uses is not particularly illustrative and wish he’d put out a little more complete discussion on why certain guys ranked so highly. DraftExpress guys do a great job with that sort of thing. Would say that a big part of Hollinger’s thing is the youth that Thompson has on his side. When you’re comparing to a guy like Faried that’s huge. Not sure I wouldn’t put Thompson’s ability to draw fouls and get offensive boards into the great category for what it’s worth (maybe blocks too). Faried is kind of off the charts on the rebound numbers (and has been for years, so the age thing isn’t big factor on that). Likewise Biyombo just dwarfs everyone with blocks. Bizarrely low defensive rebounds for TT. I’m a little less inclined towards extremes than you are. It doesn’t seem to me that trading what offense Thompson has for Biyombo’s additional defensive ability is necessarily something I’d want to do. Having complete offensive black holes on your team requires some careful lineup adjustments.
Again, I’m not trying to sell Thompson as the obvious #4 in this draft. I would have picked Valanciunas. But I’m willing to believe the Cavs made the decision for the right reasons (they liked his talent better). I would be very disappointed if this was about the buyout, or because Thompson seemed like a safer pick. We’ll see what happens when these guys hit the court.
The Cavs didn’t want Thompson. They were going to trade him to the Bobcats for JV and the 19th pick, but the Raptors took JV and spoiled their plans, according to an article on yahoo sports before the draft:
“Cleveland wants to draft 7-footer Jonas Valanciunas of Lithuania, but had a scenario where it could get him and also land the 19th overall pick belonging to the Bobcats, sources said. Charlotte has the ninth pick, and desperately wants Texas’ Tristan Thompson. The Bobcats believe that Thompson won’t get past Detroit with the eighth pick and need the Cavaliers to take him fourth. This way, Valanciunas, who may not be able to join the NBA until the 2012-13 season, would drop to Charlotte at nine, and owner Michael Jordan would trade Valanciunas – with the 19th overall pick – to the Cavaliers for Thompson.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AnsWEC2TCWx4dEP4Lh1msQa8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_draft_cavaliers_irving_062311
@David. That trade makes no sense in the context of when we were drafting because BOBCATS ALREADY TRADED THE 19th PICK BEFORE THE DRAFT. That rumor is false. TT must have been for something else
While I was hoping for Enes to be available at four, I like the TT pick. This guy has a ton of potential, plays EXTREMELY hard, and is super athletic. I also think of it this way- he’s going to compliment Kyrie better then I think JV would have. TT’s ability to get to the line so often is GOOD FOR TEAM- not just himself. Getting over the limit in fouls early in the half’s is a huge advantage because EVERYONE on your team can now get to line on any foul. Are you going to want Kyrie to go to the line more when he’s fouled in the open court? I do. Also, like what Jake D said- Derrick Williams had problems with this guy. TT’s somebody that will be able to defend an elite player effectively because he’s fluid and physical.
Also- the real prize, we got- Kyrie. He’s going to be awesome- you wait and see. He has in his character what Lebron lacked- unbreakable confidence and belief in himself. I love that they interviewed his Dad and what he said- “No offense to Lebron, but this is about Kyrie now.” We’ve got an AWESOME leader now who will make everyone around him better- like Tristan Thompson. What a duo they could turn out to be.
Also, I love Dan Gilbert. He’s our Mark Cuban.