Podcap: Cavs 107, Knicks 104 (or, Winning the Battle… Losing the War?)
2019-02-12Well, the Cavs effectively shot the Knicks into last place by themselves tonight, rolling out to as much as a 17 point lead against their tanking brethren before nearly sliding back into a late tie. Fortunately, Cleveland had Larry Nance, Jr. leading the charge with his sixth straight double double (including a career high 10 offensive rebounds), and got some terrific support early from a rejuvenated Kevin Love and newly acquired guns in Brandon Knight and Marquese Chriss. The Cavs ultimately notched their first wire-to-wire victory of the season, running over the Knicks for their franchise worst 17th loss in a row. Question is… what did it cost in ping-pong balls this summer?
To break down this hotly contested (an often not-so-pretty) tank battle, Nate and EG climbed into the podcast hatch and swung the turret around to fire on it and many other topics. We set our sights on the post-trade deadline market, track the ongoing Lakers drama, go deep in the mud on player movement and even bring out the big guns on the future of the league. It’s a long and winding journey… so bear with us since we got stuck a few times…
As always, check us out below, on Soundcloud, Apple Podcasts or Google Play.
https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-194-winning-the-battle-losing-the-war
Late to the commenting game, but I totally agree with both EG and Nate on the points made at the end of the podcast. If you accept your first big free agent contract with your team (Kyrie), that means that you are committed to playing for that team through the end of the contract. It’s unacceptable to take the money and then ask out. It seems like it is becoming all too common. Not good for the fans (the customers, who after all are always right.) Probably the incentives need to be reshuffled to prevent the temptation.
Ahead by 3, but a lot less energy in building compared to Monday. Hoping it livens up when Delly and Nance enter.
No kev?! Damn it.
What about Kevin? Don’t think I see him warming up yet.
Okay. He is inactive.
Any word on Cedi?
Cleared to play tonight.
I do not miss the drama in the winter with LeBron. I think I am gonna miss game winning PO shots come June. Plus, I am not a Bron fanboy, but he had me believing we could win it all down the stretch vs GSW in game 1. It took 4 real bad plays for us not to: BS overrule on charge call; Love fouling Curry for an and one when we were up 2; Hill missing 2nd FT; JR brain fart. Then Bron punches wall. If we win that 1st game, who knows? GSW tightens up. Korver loosens up.… Read more »
ONE MEDIA TAKE HAS TY AS THE “2ND ” CHOICE FOR LAKERS JOB–BEHIND KIDD—-CITING TY COULD HANDLE THE MEDIA FRENZY ———–EXPLAIN WHY TY BECAME “ILL ” LAST YEAR AND WAS OFF HOW MANY DAYS ——-THINK IT HAD MORE TO DO WITH THE “MEDIA–LEBRON DRAMA ” MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE ——-ENJOY WATCHING / HEARING ALL THIS DRAMA FROM A “DISTANCE ” —DO NOT MISS !!
FWIW: Years to 1st title, 1st MVP, Year 1 Stats (PTS/REB/AST). Again, some guys were the focal point immediately (better #s) & others were on more balanced teams. Some guys had more other all-timers to battle against. Some guys were out of HS, others played college. Some guys joined mid-season their first year. Mikan NBL: 1, 2 (1st full), 16.5/x/x Mikan BAA/NBA: 1, no MVPs, 28.3/x/x Russell: 1, 2 (1st full), 14.7/19.6/1.8 Wilt: 8, 1, 37.6/27.0/2.3 Oscar: 11, 4, 30.5/10.1/9.7 Kareem: 2, 2, 28.8/14.5/4.1 DrJ ABA: 3, 2, 27.3/15.7/4.0 DrJNBA: 7, 5, 21.6/8.5/3.7 Bird: 2, 5, 21.3/10.4/4.5 Magic: 1, 8,… Read more »
LOL….was just skimming some posts from articles the last couple of days at silverscreenandroll (the Laker blog)…comments there are strangely familiar…
They are, though Walton may not be as good as we thought, because many of their current gripes (rotations, no offensive sets) extend back to last season. But yeah they’re getting their full share of LeDrama and bored regular season LeBron.
EVIL ALL IN FOR TY WITH THE LAKERS : ) —-WHO WILL IMMEDIATLEY PRY AWAY FROM THE CAVS ” THAT DEFENSIVE GURU —LONGINBARF ” : )
That’s prob the only way they can divest themselves of Longo…
And context us always important.
Some guys walked into HOF teammates immediately (Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe) while some did not (MJ, LeBron, Shaq, Mikan, DrJ, Kareem).
Some guys were at MVP/HOF/championship level the second they turned pro (Mikan, Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan) while others took a couple years more (Doc, MJ, Shaq, Kobe, LBJ). Though they were all GOOD immediately. Mostly, the HS/1 year guys took a bit longer.
WHAT IS ONE OF LEBRON’S FAVORITE MOTTO —” DON’T CHEAT THE GAME”——BY SAYING THE REGULAR SEASON DOESN’T MATTER/ AND NOT GIVING 100% ——I WOULD THINK TO SOME EXTENT —” YOU ARE CHEATING THE GAME “———-PACKAGE DEAL MELO/ KIDD AFTER ” THE BREAK ” —–THROW IN MARK JACKSON AS A “SPECIALTY ” COACH —————-JASON THOSE ARE SOME VERY INTERESTING FACTS—THANK YOU !!
My hot take of the day: Jason Kidd will be the Laker coach after the ASB.
Although my warm take is Brian Shaw will be the coach after the ASB. I just think the Laker FO is incompetent and desperate enough to bring in an outside head coach, and they apparently lurrrve them some Jason Kidd…
Why would they hire Kidd when Ty Lue is available?
Wouldn’t shock me…I give Ty about a 5% chance, Kidd around 40%, and Shaw 55%…
I maintain this ‘regular season dies not matter’ trope is something made up by LBJ/Kobe fans to try to justify their guy being #1. It has to count for something. FWIW: 60 win regular seasons (or at that pace if played fewer than 82 games): Kareem 8, Duncan 7, Bird 6, Magic 6, Russell 5, Wilt 4, MJ 4, Shaq 4, Oscar 3, Kobe 3, LBJ 3, Mikan 2, DrJ 2. #1 Record in league (including ties): Russell 9, Bird 6, Kareem 5, Duncan 5 (1 tie), Wilt 4, MJ 4 (1 tie), Mikan 3, Magic 3, LBJ 3, Oscar… Read more »
Bron under .500 = 1.
Agreed. Wins matter. Traditionally ‘regular season doesn’t matter’ to Lebron, since he could get to the Finals from any seed, but I think he’ll find that’s not so true this year…(I don’t think they are getting to the playoffs this year, anyway…it’s the Kings year)
Yep. Back in the 80s home court was huge. I can remember a year where Bird’s Celtics ran the table at the Garden. Their only home loss was in Hartford. Again, context matters. Bron was just trying to say that he thinks he can win it all from any seed. The fan clubs ran with it. Shaq had a lot of regular season chill in him as well. Again, though, the facts do not really bear that out. Title winning teams who were not top 3 seeds in conference/division (7 or 8+ teams per div/conf), or top 2 (smaller or… Read more »
It didn’t matter until this year for him because he was in the east. It arguably doesn’t matter for GS.
Its not a question of whether LBJ is better than Jordan, its a question of how many of today’s players are better than Jordan.
2019 Honda Civic > 1995 Honda Civic (although since it was my first car, it has a fondness in my belly)
You can’t compare eras, but actually I think Jordan would have obliterated today. League is soft as heck with the new defense rules in the past few years. And he would still be an all world defender. Probably a good enough shooter to extend his range to three more than he did.
If Jordan was a younger player today, I have no doubt he’d be a good three point shooter, since he would have grown up shooting it. Nobody was doing that when Jordan was a kid. His game may have been quite a bit different, but I have no doubt he would still be an (or the) all time great.
No way, the people playing the game today are on another level athletically. They have analytics to drive strategy. They are cyborgs. You can definitely compare eras. Those that don’t are blinded by nostalgia and bias. Everything is more advanced today than in the 90s, including sports. The top 10+ players currently in the NBA would run Jordan out of the gym. Saying “prime” Jordan was in today’s NBA is an impossibility. The standard for anything humans do continuously advances. Collin Sexton would blow by Jordan.
You didn’t watch much basketball before the 2000s, eh? Nostalgia and bias. I hated the Jordan era. Literally save for the early 2000s my least favorite era of the game. I am not blinded by in the moment. The game has changed as far as rules and officiating, especially in the last few years. There was 100x more contact allowed back then both on the perimeter and in the lane. Freedom of movement didn’t exist, which meant getting to the basket or anywhere was a lot more difficult. Even the travel rules were different. Hell there was no two steps… Read more »
Also no charge circle and a host of other rules that make offense easier than any era. League has gone too far. I am glad they changed somethings after the 90s and early 2000s bully ball, but this is too far. You can’t touch a guy anymore. The league has nerfed bigs. And worst of all, created a star like James Harden through rule changes.
” IS WALTON A BAD COACH “—–SHOULD BE —-” IS WALTON REALLY THE COACH “——-AGAIN MY FEELINGS ON WALTON—IF LET GO—KOLBY SHOULD NOT HESITATE TO GIVE LUKE “HERCULOID ” A CALL
I’m with you Nomad.
I think between Magic undermining him by letting Lavar run his mouth, then bringing in LeBron and his circus, plus the whole AD trade debacle, is as if he’s been groomed to fail.
Walton was there before LBJ. Was not lbj’s guy…..which reminds me of the Blatt situation. LBJ doesn’t really want or need a coach save to reinforce what LBJ says. Spo was his best coach, but I think someone mentioned he went to Fizdale over Spo down there.
I think in Miami he had Riley and Wade to suppress his ego.
Yeah, his tolerance of Spo probably had somewhat to do with that.
AMICO HOOPS—GOOD ARTICLE PERTAINING TO THE ” L.A. / LEBRON DRAMA “
I agree with Amico on most of the article, but can’t sign on to his histrionics about Lebron being different than Kobe, Magic, Bird, and Jordan and their will to win. Winning in the regular season doesn’t really matter, it is all about championships. The talent reality in today’s NBA is stark, you can’t win a title unless you have at least two superstars and even then you are going up against the Warriors. If anything, it is Lebron’s will to win that his pushing him make all of these decisions and put so much pressure on his teams to… Read more »
That is where Bron IS different. Those guys had will to win over the 82 and busted their butts to do it. Jordan played in all 82 six times. Bron once. Bird willingly played PF all the time and his teams had the best record 6 times. LBJ 3 (and 2 of those were Cavs 1.0). This idiotic line about regular season not mattering started when Bron realised he could not match Bird/Magic/MJ/Duncan in the regular. Now that he realizes he won’t match the titles either (= to Bird with 3), he declares himself the GOAT already. We have seen… Read more »
REDDISH —-YOU CAN SEE THE POTENTIAL THERE —-SOME OF THOSE 3’S WERE DEEEEEEP !!——QUESTION EVERYONE IS SAYING —CAN HE BRING IT ON A DAILY / GAME BASIS —-IF CAVS DROP TO 4TH —I GO FOR HIM ——MOST “EXPERTS ” SAYING AFTER TOP 2- 3 DRAFT DROPS OFF TREMENDOUSLY/ NOT DEEP AT ALL—-NOT A GOOD YEAR IF YOU AREN’T IN TOP 3-4
So is Luke Walton a bad coach or is it the LeBronness of it all??
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2018/5/24/17387910/la-lakers-season-review-luke-walton-coaching
Last year’s review of Walton by a Lakers blog. Defense is a plus. Lack of a coherent offense. The latter shouldn’t matter much with the current team, since LBJ would scrap any non-lebron offense anyway.
Also hilarious was LBJ taking shots at his teammates thru the media… “I’ll be busy this weekend…” LMAOOOO
Hope Laker fan is enjoying late career regular season Lebron…
LMAO… can’t believe Duke won!!! From the first game against UK, it was obvious this team has a chance to win it all. They played terribly, but still pulled out victory by being smart. Coach K brought in their Delly in Jordan Goldwire… they started pressing and zoning Louisville, creating offense thru their defense. Reddish had a tough shooting night, but kept shooting and got hot at the end of the game. Barrett had a rough start to the game, but made at least 4 clutch plays down the stretch, including a brilliant thru the leg assist to Reddish to… Read more »
Nwora was also super impressive tonight from Louisville. Took big shots. Showed some athleticism. Made some NBA style step back threes. I need to watch him more, but definitely on the radar as a player who may go in the 10-20 range.
Reddish takes and makes big shots. He has been stifled a lot in that offense. Very good defender. Better shot than Barrett. Moves better too. He might be the better player in two years.
Barrett moves like he has had two knee replacements. Looks so stiff. Not a good first step it seems like.
LA is feeling the LeBron effect. , “There’s nothing I need to get in this league that I don’t already have. Everything else for me is just like icing on the cake.’’ Perhaps LBJ has made his business decision and his basketball or at least winning basketball is going to take a back seat.
Lakers 4 FGs in last 10+ minutes of the game, and go down to the Hawks by 4. Hawks were hapless scoring in that same time period, just slightly better than the Lakers. Pretty horrific loss. Time for Magic to make some smart moves and bring in Melo and Jason Kidd…
Shelburne reporting Derek Fisher interested in the Laker job, too. That would be a home run hire for Magic…
Mark Jackson as HC, Fisher as assistant. Fireworks.
That would be a dynamic staff…
Yes things would certainly run smoothly and no doubt the locker room vibe and organizational culture would be totally healthy and not toxic in any way. Certainly the lakers probably wouldn’t have any issues with coaches stabbing front offices in the back or coaches sleeping with player’s wives.
Come on, man. Fish wash dating a divorced woman who’s free to date whoever she wishes.
Separated not divorced and it was his good friends wife at that.
West coast cav is correct on the details and yeah you’re right. I just think the whole scenario was hilarious.
so much for mu prognisticating on philly.. gettn beat by celtics w/o k.. sad.. i guess that’s why they play the games
Lakers-Hawks comedy of errors…Lakers haven’t scored in what seems like an hour, Hawks up 7 with a little more than three minutes left…
ROFLMAO.. (rolling on floor laughing my ass off).. the trials of superman
bron not gonna be a happy dude losing to a lottery team..
As of now, he is the star ON a lottery team.
Zion just drained a clutch contested 3… showing all aspects of his game tonight.
Missed the next two threes though. Duke just not a good shooting team. Unless they have a random hot half like at UVA they are very vulnerable to good 3pt shooting and defensive teams.
Their gambling on d and losing guys off ball has also been exposed.
Duke’s in a battle tonight… rough road game against Louisville. Reddish is starting to come around.
Hawks up 5 on the Lakers after three. Enjoyable.
Trae Young balling out even though he’s not shooting well… +13 plus/minus and 14 assists thru 3+ quarters.
Oh? Do tell…
There are some in NBA circles, including some fellow coaches, who privately believe Stevens has received too much credit in his first five years. They respect his talents and consider him a likable person but feel he’s gotten the “Golden Boy” treatment undeservedly.
“Stevens, humble to nearly a fault”
BARF
I think we need to allow Bill Simmons a retort.
Well this aged well.
One game does not reverse this…
JUST GOT DONE WITH MY ” DAILY DOSE / CUP OF COFFEE –“BOBAN VIDEO “—–: )—–YEP I LIVE A BORING / SHELTERED LIFE !!
put’s a smile on one’s face doesn’t it.. boban got some rhythm..
Overflowing w positive vibes…
ONLY PLAYER WITH MORE “TRAVELING ” IS STAUKAS AS OF LATE : )
Nice
https://twitter.com/BULLETlN/status/1095141574789554176?s=19
Yeesh. Most blatant and possibly longest travel ever.
There’s one where harden changes his pivot foot like 7 times.
the explanation the refs give for it being legal is amazing. why doesn’t everyone just “lose control of the ball” if they realize they’re about to travel cuz they don’t have a shot. gimme a break just admit a dang mistake.
Ridiculous.
I was there last night, and got upgraded by the Wine & Gold folks from my usual Loudville perch to 8th row at Knicks baseline.
With expectations set appropriately beforehand, that was a fun game to watch., esp Love, Nance, and Delly. As I mentioned in game thread, great to see the vocal leadership from Nance sharing displeasure that guys at stretches were unwilling to set up in paint. He and Cedi were my favorites coming into the season, and I’m hoping that the progress made (esp LNJ) is permanent.
Nice. Hope you got a couple good pics.
LIKED ROBINSON AS A ‘SLEEPER ” LAST YEAR COMING OUT OF DRAFT—-THIS YEARS “SLEEPER ” PICK IS GAFFORD / ARKANSAS —WHO MIGHT BE THERE LATE IN 1ST ROUND FOR THE CAVS
WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THAT RIDE HOME WITH LARRY AND JR / WHO TIED DAD’S PERSONAL OFF REB BEST / AM SURE LARRY SR IS VERY PROUD AND HAS EVERY RIGHT TO BE !!!!——THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR AND MRS NANCE !!!
HA-HA—LOVE IT MIKEO : )
Let us hope they go for 27 straight Ls.
I hear their FO thinks the vet to mentor their young guys is De’Andre Jordan. That is funny.
O.K. THE KNICKS HAVE BEEN TERRIBLE ..LIKE FORVER.. THEY ARE- ” THE’- MAJOR MARKET CITY — ( YES L.A. BIGGER THAN YOU )—-WITH THAT IN MIND —I CAN SEE WHERE THE NBA MIGHT- “ASSIST “- THEM THIS OFF SEASON WITH THE LOTTERY / FREE AGENT SIGNING ——THOUGHTS / OPINIONS ?/
Get that envelope in the freezer early…
I completely agree with you Nomad. At the end of the day it’s a business.
GOOD PT SIMMO –( ABOUT LOVE )—AND HEY HE ACTUALLY WANTS TO BE HERE —SO INSTEAD OF TRADING HIM FOR I AM SURE LESSER RETURN VALUE—RETAIN HIM THROUGHOUT HIS CONTRACT / HAVE SOME PROFESSIONAL CONSISTENCY ON AND OFF THE FLOOR FOR THE YOUNG PLAYERS TO EMULATE / AND WHEN HE IS HEALTHY I DARE A TEAM TO PLAY A ZONE FOR EXTENDED MINUTES AGAINST US —LOVE WILL DESTROY WITH HIS SHOOTING AND PASSING ——–JUST HOPE WE ARE NOT IN THE MIND THOUGHT OF ” ZION OR BUST ” MENTALITY —–WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A SHOT AT ZION / BUT… Read more »
Top Pod gents.
My takeaway finally having watched the replay: KLove looks great. I know, I know, the caveat – he always plays better when rested. Regardless, whatever the next iteration of this team is….I hope he can be kept. This game was a good reminder of his quality, and why the team has struggled in his absence.
Love puts eveyone in their correct places offensively. We have had guys trying to do too much all year. This game, we had a fulcrum ti run the offense around, and got open looks. I mean, they came out with Herzonja on him. That lasted one possession. Then Robinson. But that dragged their shot blocking away from the basket, got us driving lanes, AND we still got open triples. Second half that was no longer there. They went zone. Clogged the paint. No driving lanes. And our 3s did not. Love opens that all up vs most (but not all)… Read more »
Great take EG about the Zion thing… I agree with you, rather take the Tim Duncan when all said and done because he’s a consistent team player. But I think Zion could be that as well. I think Zion going to Duke was “controversial” because it meant he didn’t care about being “the guy” since Reddish, Jones, and Barrett were already going. Even though it’s a one and done era, Coach K is probably the best team builder in college. If Zion wanted to be “the man”, he probably would’ve gone to Clemson (what some people said about his recruitment… Read more »
Top 3 are all 14%. 4th is something like 12%. We should aim for 3rd worst.
But in that scenario you’re still slotted 2 spots behind the worst team after the first 4 slots are selected.
Meh. Not counting Zion, I don’t think there is a ton of drop off after between Barrett and some of the other names being floated around top 5.
Which is why having the worst record is so important. The worst record guarantees top 5. Third worst is top 7. That’s could be the difference between Trae Youndg and Sexton.
Idk, who really knows what the talent gap is between 2-5? I know the gap between 3 and 6 was Luka Doncic to Mo Bamba. Of more importance is the fact that the third worst team has a 34% chance of falling out of the top 5.
I like Zion for the Cavs because of his motor and attitude. He really seems to care and plays team ball. Yes his jump shot needs a ton of work but his core personality as a player( and obvious abilities) bode well for the future. Barrett just seems so self centered(Mamba Mentality!) and not that unique as a wing in the NBA that I’m not that high on him even if he’s more productive in the short term in the NBA. The Cavs core seems better suited to complement Zion with Love around to stretch the floor. I’d feel sorry… Read more »
That doesn’t make any sense
Tanking for the worst possible spot is pointless in this year’s draft. Worst three teams have equal odds for number 1 and there isn’t anyone outside of Zion, Morant, and maybe Barrett that I am excited about. So since the third worst team will have the best odds (tied with the other worst two teams) for picks 1-4, no point in being the worst team.After that the top four in this draft, maybe the top two I don’t think there are a ton of standouts like last year, so the difference between picking fifth and 7th won’t be much in… Read more »