Recap: Pistons 113, Cavs 102 (Or, Making It Easy)

This game was close for all of half of the first half of the first quarter. From there, the game plummeted out of reach for Cleveland and would remain so for the rest of the game. The final score makes this one seem closer than it actually was. The Pistons shot 74% in the first quarter and Cleveland gave them countless easy baskets, making it easy for the Pistons to run up a first quarter lead of 38-27. Their shooting percentage came down but the lead went up in the second quarter as the Cavs only managed to score 19 points to Detroit’s 28. Cleveland would go into the second half down 66-46.

The first half of the third quarter was more of the same as Detroit got just about everything they wanted. The Pistons swelled their lead to as much as 30 points with about 4:00 minutes to go in the third. It was only then that Cleveland remembered they were on a basketball court and proceeded to go on an 18-2 run going into the fourth quarter. That run is about the only reason why the final tally for the game doesn’t look like the complete drubbing that it was. The third quarter stayed much more competitive throughout and Cleveland ended 93-69.

The final frame actually went Cleveland’s way as the Cavs outscored their opponents 33 to 20. Unfortunately, the damage was already done and the game was far out of reach with way too little game left for them to truly mount any substantial comeback. Cleveland made it way too easy all game long for Detroit to get the shots they were looking for and when the game is easy for the other team, you end up down by 30. After bringing the game within a reasonable deficit, the game ended with the Pistons up 113 to 102. It must feel nice for Dwayne Casey to put the beating on Cleveland for a change, but teams must come away with a hollow feeling knowing that they aren’t beating the same team that showed them out of the playoffs every year.

 Larry Nance,

Some Notes:

1) It’s games like these that show us why Ben Werth is one of the best scouts around. The issues he’s had with Collin Sexton’s game were on full display against the Piston’s guards. The rookie just could not manage to stay in front of any of Detroit’s guards and at one point saw himself completely turned around in the paint as Ish Smith glided to an easy layup. Sexton is still shooting well from three (he went 2-3) but the long twos are really starting to rack up. More than half of his shots came in the “Long Two” areas of the court and though he made 3-6 of those, it sure would be nice if he were either collapsing the defense in by getting further into the paint or making them extend themselves by making a couple more threes a game. I’ve not given up hope, but it doesn’t appear Larry Drew is going to put a stop to this kind of offense. Hopefully Cleveland’s next coach will eliminate the mid-range as a significant option. The rookie point guard ended the game with 18 points, 4 assists, and 1 steal but had a lousy -21 plus/minus. I’d like to see more drives like the first one in this video:

2) Usually Cleveland has been able to look to their rebounding as a bright spot among the dark sea of losses. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the case against the Pistons. The pair of Blake Griffin and Andre Drummond proved to be too much for the trio of Cavaliers big men. But to be honest, Cleveland again made it pretty easy on the already rebound-talented duo. Whether it was Larry Nance Jr., Tristan Thompson, or Ante Zizic out there, what wasn’t out there was proper box-out technique. Or any box-out technique, really. If you don’t box out these guys, you don’t stand a chance. The three Cavalier big men finished the game with a combined 18 rebounds. Andre Drummond had 16 of his own and that went nicely with Griffin’s 12. They lost the rebounding battle 50-36 and were lucky it wasn’t worse. This is all leaving out how much Drummond and Griffin abused the Cavalier big men on the offensive end, as well. Nance finished the game with 4 points, 5 rebounds, an assist, and a steal. Thompson added 10 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, and a steal. At least Zizic shot well from the field as he managed 12 points on 5 of 7 shooting in only 18 minutes.

3) I’ll end this one on a positive note. Usually Cleveland has a turnover problem as they are often careless with the ball. Fortunately, we didn’t have to watch too much of this habit in addition to Monday night’s dumpster fire. The Cavs only had 9 turnovers as a team. Collin Sexton, who is usually one of the primary culprits of being careless with his dribble, did not have a single turnover in this match. That’s good, right? I’ve got to look at something here.

Cleveland’s next game is LeBron’s return to Cleveland in his new purple and gold digs. Let’s hope the Cavs don’t make it so easy on the James and his new band of misfits. As always, go Cavs!

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Nate Smith
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2 months 1 day ago

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 1 day ago

DUKE WILL NOT GO UNDEFEATED !!

CLF
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CLF
2 months 1 day ago

LOL… there was no way they were going undefeated…. ACC is toughest conference in America.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 1 day ago

Jones for Duke looks like a clone of his brother. Not just looks like him, but moves like him on the court, seems to play very much like Tyus.

CLF
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CLF
2 months 1 day ago

He’s a bit bigger, stronger, and I think a little better passer. Not as good of a shooter or finisher though.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 1 day ago

ANYBODY WATCH THE DUKE / GONZAGA GAME

John B
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John B
2 months 1 day ago

Wow Gonzaga wins. Going to have to watch the replay. What did they do to slow down Duke? Barrett appears to have been gunning. Looks like Zion had some issues too by his standards.

CLF
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CLF
2 months 1 day ago

It was a good one…. RJ Barrett couldn’t close the game. Missed an easy pass for the tie on the last possession. Good learning experience for the freshman. I think Coach K made a mistake not giving it to Zion in those last few possessions to drive and finish.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 1 day ago

Gilbert is not a good owner. He is willing to spend, but stinks at building an organization. He wants the credit.

JoeyB
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JoeyB
2 months 1 day ago

Except when we suck. Altman is going to be yet another GM who won’t be renewed. No idea if he deserves it or not, because I don’t really believe he has all that much freedom to do his job.

CLF
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CLF
2 months 1 day ago

Duke vs. Gonzaga…. shaping up to be a classic. Great test for Duke, Gonzaga’s well-coached and more experienced. Reddish looking a little rough. Williamson, Barrett, and Tre Jones look good.

CLF
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CLF
2 months 1 day ago

Rui Hachimura for Gonzaga is a guy to watch… strong, long, can shoot, drive, and pass. Big time upside since he’s only played basketball since age 12.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 1 day ago

NATE I HAVEN’T HEARD FROM THE EVIL ONE LATELY—-EVERYTHING GOING O.K. FOR HIM –SURE HE HAS BEEN OCCUPIED WITH THE FIRES ETC ————–HERE IS WISHING ALL MY CTB BROTHER’S –( YOU TURKEYS )—A VERY HAPPY / SAFE THANKSGIVING ——ONE THING I AM THANKFUL FOR IS SHARING OUR OPINIONS DAILY AT THIS BLOG ——–DON’T GO GETTING ‘COMATOSE ” ON ALL THE FOOD AND EGGNOG !!! : )

Nate Smith
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2 months 1 day ago

He’s fine. Should be around tonight.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 1 day ago

NOT TOTALLY SURE ABOUT THAT– LEBRON IS LEBRON —-NEVER REALLY “SHOWS HIS HAND “——NEVER REALLY KNOW WHAT HE IS THINKING / WHAT HIS PLANS ARE ———–JUST HOPE THE FANS GIVE HIM THE OVATION HE DESERVES TONIGHT / SHOW THE APPRECIATION —LOVE———STILL BELIEVE 4 YRS FROM NOW HE WILL WEAR A CAVS UNIFORM AGAIN —–BELIEVE ALOT OF THAT WILL DEPEND ON HOW HE IS RECEIVED / PERCEIVED BYCAVS FANS

JoeyB
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JoeyB
2 months 1 day ago
Not retaining Griffin was bad, but not the end of the world. The Irving trade, however, which Lebron was adamantly against, was worse. The return on that trade, and subsequent trades to try to salvage it, were just the nail in the coffin. Gilbert gave him no reason to believe that he’d learned anything, that the organization was in competent hands, and that it would get better. This team’s future is not good, and the reason is that an incompetent owner has way too much decision making. Altman is in over his head. It’s not his fault, he was thrown into a position he wasn’t ready for. They’ve bungled step after step, and there is little reason to believe its going to get better. I mean, they appear to have truly believed this team they assembled could compete for the playoffs. Gilbert is blinded by his desire to be able to win without Lebron. He cant’ do it, because he doesn’t know what he’s doing, and his faith in himself has led to mistake after mistake. I wish Lebron had retired a Cav, but Gilbert chased him out with his arrogance that he’s the smartest guy in the room.
buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 1 day ago

i have echoed your sentiments on the kyrie debacle.. it is one of the dumbest moves in the history of pro sports, and was a franchise destroyer.. trading excellence for mediocre is a recipe for sub-.500, especially in a league where excellence rules and is determinative.. however, many on this site, continue to downplay its siginificance, which is why so many are actually surprised at the steaming pile that is on public display 3x/wk..

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 1 day ago

Yep. My biggest concern with Zion, if the Cavs were to get him, is that this franchise would ruin him. All Gilbert would have to do is hire competent people and let them do their jobs, but he’s utterly incapable of doing this.

JoeyB
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JoeyB
2 months 1 day ago

He did it once. In 2015. He left them alone for two years, and a title ensued. Next thing you know, he ousts the smart people and trades for Isaiah Thomas.

JoeyB
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JoeyB
2 months 1 day ago

I’m sad about this game tonight. It seemed clear then, but its becoming clearer and clearer: Gilbert chased James out of town. He’d have retired here if that disastrous summer of 2017 had been avoided. It really sucks.

NickNevers
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NickNevers
2 months 1 day ago

If Bron wanted to be here, he’d be here. He’s just too petty with his dislike/distaste for Gilbert. He could have made it work here and kept us contenders until he retired. Gilbert isn’t blameless, but it’s not all on him.

ChrisKorvalier
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ChrisKorvalier
2 months 1 day ago

Eh…LeBron left because he never really wanted to be here. Just felt he needed to win a title here in order to boost his legacy. If he didn’t want Kyrie traded, he should have talked to Kyrie. That’s what a good leader would have done. LeBron is not that. An amazing basketball player for sure. But not a leader.

buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 1 day ago

so, does LBJ try to put up 70 against his old bros.. and salute the owners box.. or does he take it easy on them, and just get the W?

JoeyB
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JoeyB
2 months 1 day ago

He’s just going to play basketball, and we will get our butts beat, because they are so much better than us. He could beat us by himself. It’s not going to take any extra motivation. He just has to show up.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

GREAT INTERVIEW WITH RACHEL NICHOLS / LOVE / CHANNING / R.J. AND CAMEO APPEARANCE FROM ” LITTLE KEV “—-MISS THOSE FUN DAYS WITH THOSE GUYS

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

LOVE OUT UNTIL JANUARY—–DO YOU THINK THAT IS FOR TRADE REASONS / MAKE SURE HE IS HEALTHY—-ALSO ( SOMEONE PLEASE EDUCATE ME )—-WITH HIS RECENT CONTRACT SIGNING HE COULDN’T BE TRADED UNTIL LATE DECEMBER ANYWAYS COULD HE—-AM SURE LOVE’S PERSPECTIVE AT STAYING LONG TERM HAS CHANGED FROM THE TIME HE SIGNED THE CONTRACT TO THE PRESENT —-OPINIONS / THOUGHTS ??——–THINK THAT IS ONE OF POP’S STRONGEST FEATURES —-TO RECOGNIZE POTENTIAL TALENT AND THEN COACH THEM UP TO REACH THAT TALENT

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

I swore i wouldnt do this but Trols’ comment about how Pop was only a good coach because he had four hofers might be Trols’ dopiest ever.
Pop helped a 28th pick (Parker), a 57th pick (Ginobili), and a 15th pick (Leonard) become HOFers. He took Danny Green off the scrap heap and made him one of the NBA’s best two way players. He turned Bruce Bowen who was one of the NBA’s worst shooters into a corner three specialist. If that’s not good coaching at the very least from an ability to spot and nurture talent, I dont know what is.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 1 day ago

Trols posts dumb stuff. It’s what he does.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Won a title with Avery Johnson at PG.

TV63
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TV63
2 months 2 days ago

I honestly didn’t think this Cavs team could be worse than 2011. My brain can’t process this.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

When Love gets back we will look considerably better. Hill will help.

John B
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John B
2 months 2 days ago

Yep. We were behind to begin season. Injuries set us back and sealed the season. But, if healthy, we could be a lot more competitive even after the wasted summer and preseason.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
2 months 2 days ago

Firing Lue is looking dumber and dumber.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

BTW, Col$, you know you are banned from this site, right?

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Well, one thing certainly is.

John B
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John B
2 months 2 days ago

You have zero critical thinking skills right? Ok. I totally get you now.

Repeating simple sentences which have no evidence or rationale behind them. It all makes sense. You just can’t make sense of simple concepts. I am sorry. I have gone at you way too hard. My bad.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

Lue truthers are a riot. Thanks, col$.

buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

how many does superman go for tomorrow night? i say at least 40.. and perhaps a career high

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

No way. He’ll only play 2.5 quarters. Game will be over quick. 27-8-6.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

LMAO ALSO—–THANKS FOR SHARING NATE !!

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

This is amazing.

John B
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John B
2 months 2 days ago

That is very very funny. Walton would be/will be fired way before that though. A modern offense is a no no, even if it would put them over the top. Scrap everything from last year where all of your young guys were thriving far more save Josh Hart. Because team ball gets you nowhere.

buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

love it..

buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

so, what does “wrong way” JR bring the cavs? a 3rd rounder?

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

With this FO, who knows.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

POSTED TOO SOON—WIZ COMING BACK / LOOKS LIKE THE WILL DEFEAT THE CLIPS / MAYBE THEIR ‘TURN AROUND ‘ GAME——–DUKE GETTING TESTED BY AUBURN—-ZION WITH ONLY 3 FG ATTEMPTS

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

EVEN CHARGE HAVING A ROUGH SEASON—LOSING BY 20 + —-ALTHOUGH ” NEW FAVORITE ” : )—–BLOSSOMGAME HAS 21/ 10 IN 26 MIN’S

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

WOW– WHAT ARE WE 15 GAMES INTO THE SEASON————SEEMS LIKE AGES AGO THAT WE WERE ALL OPTOMISTIC/ TALKING ABOUT A POSSIBLE 5TH PLACE FINISH/ MAYBE WINNING 1ST ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS ………………………………….AND THE WIZARDS POSSIBLY CHALLENGING FOR EASTERN CONFERENCE CROWN——–MAN HAVE THINGS CHANGED —-RAPIDLY !!!!

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

Uh. Was anyone here talking about that for the Wiz?

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

I like coaches who have general guidelines but adapt the system to their players. Not coaches who try to fit square pegs in round holes. You are not married to a system.

As for Lue, LeBron WAS the system. Of course it worked. At worst, he is top 3 offensive orchestrator of all time (Magic, Oscar).

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

For sure. Why Pop is the greatest coach of all time. The Spurs changed so much offensively from the early 2000s to now it is insane. All based on their personnel, the changes to the game, and their personnel’s capabilities. There has never been a coaching tree in the NBA like there has been with San Antonio. For good reason.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
2 months 2 days ago

Popovich was only a good coach because he had four hall of gamers playing for him.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Only 2 at first. Lue had 3.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

You know you are banned here, right, Col$?

TV63
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TV63
2 months 2 days ago

I wondered what happened to Cols. I’ve been out of the loop.

John B
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John B
2 months 2 days ago

You don’t know anything about basketball do you? No need to answer. That is a rhetorical.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

AGREE WARRIORS —BEFORE DURRANT —–SPURS —EVERY YEAR PRETTY MUCH—–MAYBE THE NUGGETS / UTAH—HAVEN’T SEEN TOO MUCH OF THEM———————–THE KNICKS ( REED/ FRAZIER / ETC )—WERE A THING OF BEAUTY ——-MY FAVORITE –“-VERY OLD SCHOOL ” WAS THE JACK RAMSEY / WALTON BLAZERS TEAM—–MAN COULD THEY PASS / MOVE THAT BALL / DISECT OPPOSING TEAMS

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Oh nuggets of course. The reason Jokic works so well is because Gary Harris and co. are constantly moving which provides Jokic passing opportunities.

I was not alive for the Walton Blazers, but based off the games I have seen on nba classic, Walton was the Jokic prototype as far as passing. Interesting how Luke dissected defenses like his father with the herculoids. Too bad we never got to see Sabonis before injuries in the NBA.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

OPINION —WHICH TEAMS / PRESENTLY RUN THE BEST SYSTEM OFFENSES ?—–WHO SHOULD WE / MIGHT WE COPY OFF OF

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

Frankly, I’ve always loved the stuff Stotts does in Portland. They run some amazing half court stuff that generates a ton of open looks from the corners.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

True. I barely watch them, Lowe did some breakdown last year with how they utilized Lillard and CJ to create open shots.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Warriors prior to Durant, though they still run triangle principles and motion principles. Bucks have moved a ton off ball this year (sounds familiar with the bud Atlanta teams). Spurs of 2014 sort of defined a modern motion offense. The precursor to that was the kings of the early 2000s and the Adelman wolves teams when Love was there. Boston has run a ton of motion over the Stevens tenure. It is more difficult to do with guys like Kyrie there.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

I haven’t watched as much of other teams this year, so it may be that there are a bunch of other teams in that vein. Utah last year and during all of Snyder’s tenure has had some good sets and off ball stuff. Memphis with Gasol and Conley had had pretty consistent cutting and motion principle stuff.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
2 months 2 days ago

Cavs under Lue has the best system. With basically LeBron and garbage they were top 5. With LeBron and Kyrie they were top two.

No one could have beat those teams except Durant joining the warriors.

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

You are still a troll

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

And it likely could have been better. LBJ can only do so much against a set defense with literally 4 guys standing around. I don’t think 2016 would have been close had GS not been able to key in so much on LBJ. Sometimes guys just outperform what they should based on the shots they take or the defenses oriented against them. That goes for LBJ and Kyrie. Also the warriors were still tops in offensive efficiency then. It took the greatest performance ever to come back against a team that lost their best defensive player for a crucial game. The cavs were more individually talented than the warriors in 2015 and 2015. I am convinced of that. But that warriors team was utterly maximized to its personnel’s potential based off Kerr’s system.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

2015 and 2016. Obviously in 2015 if they had been healthy.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

Yes, ‘with Lebron’. Great system.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

LMAO

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

Solid recap, Jmay.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
2 months 2 days ago

The LeBron offense was top 5 last year without a point guard or any other good players except for Love who was injured for half the year.

I don’t know why people think the Cavs needed some crazy system when Lue had the offense humming every single year.

John B
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John B
2 months 2 days ago

Ha nice CTB. Hilarious movie.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

You mean Lebron had the offense humming. It works to surround LBJ with shooters. That is essentially what Houston did with Harden last year and Bucks with Giannis this year. The issue is that when he is off the floor, or in this case leaves, the personnel underperform because they have no idea what to do. No plan. No direction. Only LBJ can improvise as well as he can, and he still needs shooters surrounding him. You can have talent, but if you don’t have any organized sets, that talent can’t replace any of his production when he sits or leaves.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
2 months 2 days ago

What do you think makes great offense? Great players. The warriors offense would suck with bad players. There’s no system you can run with bad players.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Mark Jackson had the same players as Kerr. Under Mark Jackson’s ISO heavy offense they had mediocre offensive efficiency. Kerr instituted a motion based offense over a summer with the same essentially the same personnel and suddenly the warriors become tops in offensive efficiency and win 66 games. They next year they win 73 with essentially the same players.

That is the difference illustrated before our eyes through a system change. They were already an elite defensive team under Jackson. They unlocked their offensive potential under a new coach. This isn’t something that happened a long time ago. It just happened five years ago.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

Indeed. The Warriors ‘sucked’ with great players under Jackson. Incoming: “Anonymous” will move the goalposts yet again. Yawn.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago
Look I was fine with Sexton. Just fine. Not super excited. Not angry with the pick. He has been better. He is still bad, but he has a 54.8 TS%, not bad for a raw rookie guard. He is 13th in TS among rookies. Among rookies playing more than 20 mpg he is 9th. Shai has a 55.0 TS% and a 11.75 PER (Sexton is 12.41 PER). He is also 9th in PER in rookies playing more than 20 mpg. Doncic has a 56.6 TS%. This is after Sexton’s woeful start. The kid had scored with decent efficiency for a rookie guard. He is terrible on d no doubt, though he was pretty good in p and r and off ball against Charlotte. His footwork fundamentals needs work. No doubt. And he is bad at running an offense, if you could consider what the cavs run an offense. As I have pointed out about four times between last night and today, the tt/mace lineups simply do not allow for open lanes or rollers. Even when he makes a drop pass to the roll, the roller has nowhere to go because of teams cheating off tt/nance when they aren’t involved in… Read more »
JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Point being if he shoots the three like he has and can still get to the rim, the rest will come. Maybe not this year, but next year if the cavs actually install a system and player Devi does their work over the summer.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

BLOSSOMGAME SHOWING UP ‘BIG ” ALREADY FOR THE CHARGE –9 PTS / 11 MIN’S ——HEY NATE HOW MUCH ARE CHARGE TICKETS –REALLY THINKING ABOUT CHECKING IN ON A FEW GAMES ———-BLOSSOMGAME CAN “SNIFF ” THE BIG LIGHTS / NBA

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

REME,MBER LAST YEAR BEFORE THE CELTICS TRADE—EVERYONE WANTED CAVS TO TRADE FOR SUNS —JOSH JACKSON —–THAT MAY HAVE ENDED UP WORSE THAN THE CELTICS TRADE

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

He looks bad. I admittedly was a huge proponent. Thank god we didn’t do that. Not afraid to admit when I am wrong.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

You know that isn’t true.

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

AGREE WITH JOHNB —-WHEN YOU HAVE / GET LEBRON—–“THROW YOUR ENTIRE 5 YSR PLAN ” OUT THE WINDOW ——–DID WE DO SOME GREAT THINGS LERBON 2 —HELL YES –WE WON A FREAKIN CHAMPIONSHIP —THE COST OF THAT CHAMPIONSHIP IS NOW STARTING TO SURFACE —-SO WE CAN ALWAYS ‘ OCCASSIONALLY ‘ JUMP INTO OUR TIME MACHINE AND ENJOY THOSE CHAMPIONSHIP MEMORIES TO EASE THE PAIN OF THE PRESENT AND THE NEAR FUTURE —————I STILL AM OLD SCHOOL —–REALLY EMBRACE A TEAM / FRONT OFFICE —-DEVELO0P A TEAM THRU DRAFTING / TRADING / FREE AGENT SIGNING —–THE RIGHT PLAYERS TO FORM —-THAT FIT — A HIGHLY COMPETITIVE TEAM—THAT IS MY WISH / HOPE FOR THE CAVS THE NEXT 5 YRS ——-” BLOSSOMGAME HAS TO BLOSSOM QUICKLY ” : )

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Here is the truth. Bulls without Jordan in his retirement year win 55 games because they have a system. The triangle works and guys knew it like the back of their hand. Lebron teams have never had much of a system save Miami which was still far more improvised than anything the bulls used to do. So without any system to fall back on, you essentially get 12 guys who have played together who have no idea what to do when the guy that says ‘you stand over there and only play off me’ leaves. Simple.

Vintage
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Vintage
2 months 2 days ago

Conversely, it is crazy that the “LeBron system” was good enough to beat every team in the East the last 8 years and likely more than 1 ring over the last 4 if not for an all-time great Dubs system.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Like I said it works. I am not sure the cavs get their 2016 ship if the east wasn’t so weak during that time, or even make it to the finals. The issue is that it underutilizes the talents of everyone else while maximizing the threat of LBJ. Effective, but everyone else is left utterly unprepared when he goes elsewhere unless you have a similar player (a la Wade) when he goes.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 2 days ago

Danz
Guest
Danz
2 months 2 days ago

This statement makes no sense without an explanation as to what was miraculous about a team with three stars and the goat winning a championship. I mean is his memory that short?

So a team that lost the best player in the world is having issues, who woulda thunk?

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

So sick of this bs.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

I’ve seen people drop some hints that there is at least one team who would be interested in trading for Wall. Without knowing who that team is, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are insane.

JoeyB
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JoeyB
2 months 2 days ago

It’s probably us.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Well, time to go full development with a sprinkle of Hill/KK to raise trade value.

I would try Cedi as a small ball 4 vs small teams and play LNJ + TT vs big ones. No choice.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Well, we should not expect a transformative rookie to turn us into instant contenders.

Even Bron took 5 years. We still sucked with Kyrie.

The guys who instantly make you a contender virtually by themselves are rare. Extremely rare. Mikan. Wilt. Kareem.

Even guys like Russell (Cousy, Sharman, Ramsey, Heinsohn), Bird (McHale & Parish), Magic (Kareem), and Duncan (the Admiral) had help. Even Shaq had Penny. Kobe took a while & had Shaq. Curry took a while. FFS, even MJ never won a PO series without Pippen.

We have a lot of 3rd option types. Love is a #2 at best. If everyone is in their proper place, it will look a lot better. Top notch coach would help.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

I think if you gave Zion the ball as a point forward in a five out system he could essentially become this year’s Giannis sooner rather than later. However, a team has to commit to that. You have to go in thinking he will be your primary playmaker and play guys that allow a five out system.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

FWIW, Phoenix did can their GM this year.

Alex Len and Chriss were also high picks not on the roster, for a reason. They also turned IT, Brandon Knight, and Goran Dragic (all on the team at one time) into……nothing.

buck turgidson
Guest
buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

just to demonstrate how difficult building a winner in this league is, through the draft, i looked over the PHX roster.. they are currently 3-13, and yes, i would trade the cav-nots for the sun-nots in a heartbeat.. Here are the 1st rounders on their roster.. Ayton (#1/#1).. Booker (#1/#13).. Bridges (#1/#10).. Warren (#1/#14).. Jackson (#1/#4).. Bender (#1/#4)..

Bender is a bust, but they seem to have drafted/traded fairly well to build this team (at least i haven’t heard anyone screaming about total incompetence).. Ayton and Booker are grade A.. Bridges, Jackson and Warren appear to be grade B or so..

And they still are pretty awful (based on 3-13), although they are in the much tougher west.. so, what’s the point here? even with zion.. it’s going to be a very long slog, in my opinion, to get back to .500.. and given the cavs seemingly unlimited ability to screw up the drafts (other than the obvious #1/#1s they have been gifted with).. it may seem like a lifetime

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

Warren is replacement level, and Josh Jackson looks like an absolute disaster: one of the NBA’s worst players. He’s ranked 426th by RPM.

buck turgidson
Guest
buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

you may be right on jackson, but i seem to remember the cavs wanting badly him in a possible kyrie trade and PHX not being interested in moving him.. just sayin

buck turgidson
Guest
buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

badly wanting.. sorry

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 2 days ago

I agree. It could be a decade before they reach any sort of relevance again.

nupe
Guest
nupe
2 months 2 days ago

It only takes one truly special talent to add relevance. One of the Duke freshman could do just that. They may not make us contenders the way Lebron did almost immediately, but it’s possible that we become .500 with the #1 or #2 this draft. Of course, we could also take the Philly approach and be horrible for 5 years taking top 4 picks consistently to become relevant.

Championship contender (beyond just relevant) is a different thing that you have to draft and trade perfectly for or get REALLY lucky to make happen. See GSW.

buck turgidson
Guest
buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

how GSW built that team is a thing of beauty,, not on obvious #1/#1s.. of ourse, they needed the other teams to do stupid things, but that is usually par for the course.. while not crazy about durant joining them, i respect and enjoy watching that team play, even while beating the cavs and LBJ.. you can’t argue with the brilliance of drafting curry and thompson

John B
Guest
John B
2 months 2 days ago

They draft very well.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

Wiz may be talking to Hornets about trading Beal. If the Wiz have a fire sale of all their incredibly unlikable players, tank, and draft ahead of the Cavs, I will not be happy.

JoeyB
Guest
JoeyB
2 months 2 days ago

They can’t tank worse than us. It’s the same odds for the bottom 4.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

Right, but they can tank hard and end up ahead of the Cavs, who are legit bad. The Bullets are just bad because they are a team of meatheads.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
2 months 2 days ago

Why does this happen every time right after Lebron leaves…. Is there really any debate at all anymore of how poorly Gilbert manages this organization ??

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Because Lebron teams are built around him since he doesn’t want to run a system. There is more freaking talent here than shows, but since everyone just stands around while he improvises when he is here, the guys on the teams he leaves have zero system to fall back on. They lose their ISO player that sets them up. Lue didn’t do anything to install a real offense and this is what you get. It is basically like starting out with an entirely new freaking team. They don’t know how to play with each other because LBJ didn’t want to actually run anything. It works, but he was the system, so talent is underutilized.

JoeyB
Guest
JoeyB
2 months 2 days ago
Also, Lebron is legendarily great. He changes teams and masks weaknesses. Even Miami, with a good FO and strong desire to make the playoffs, was garbage. They were low seeded early bounces, and haven’t threatened to be good since he left. His impact is immense. Gilbert mismanages, and I’m as big a critic as anyone, but the biggest fault here is actually ignorance. Believing that the players around him, that he made better than they were, were going to still be good without him. It’s one of the many reasons why trading Irving for 4 quarters was such a bad idea, even if he’d have sat out the year with surgery. No one else on the team had a modicum of greatness without Lebron. Love is closest, but he’s not a top ten player and he’s also never made it through a whole season healthy. The dropoff from him to our next best player is pretty big. It craters from there. Without Lebron, this team was a lottery team last year. That the FO didn’t see it was them either choosing to not believe or just ignorance. At least they are figuring it out now, as opposed to three months… Read more »
buck turgidson
Guest
buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

LBJs greatness is really unfathomable.. he could have taken a div A college team to the playoffs the last 7-8 yrs..

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Only if they had a ton of shooters.

Raoul
Guest
Raoul
2 months 2 days ago

Apparently JR’s contract is worth something due to being grandfathered into some quirk of the rules.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Yes. But less so if we trade him now.

The quirk is we can use the full value of his contract for salary matching purposes (next year) even though it is not fully guaranteed.

This summer we could have traded JR for a $15 mil player & the other team waves him & they just cleared $15 mil. Now only the guaranteed part can be used to match salary in a trade.

This year his guarantee $$ matches the salary. The quirk only helps us after this year. Which JR knows. Which is why he ran his mouth. And why we made noise about competing. We wanted that deal this summer.

nupe
Guest
nupe
2 months 2 days ago

There will be some interest from teams in need of another shooter. With Fultz pushing the envelope taking a week off in Philly and there need for a shooter – there may be some kind of deal there (several pieces will have to be included for financials to work). But JR is only guaranteed less than 4M next year so a deal can happen.

JoeyB
Guest
JoeyB
2 months 2 days ago

The quirk allows us to take on more salary from another team that intends to cut him next year to create cap space. The same is true with Korver’s contract and Hill’s contract. So look at teams that want to clear space next season but have albatross contracts on the books. Those are the teams that will want to take those contracts, give us crap like Clarkson on too expensive a contract, and we can net a pick in return (or a player like Nance).

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Though that is true, that is not the quirk.

JoeyB
Guest
JoeyB
2 months 2 days ago

Hill plus JR plus Korver = about 45 million in cap space next year.

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

Yes

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

TY JUST SITTING BACK —SIPPING SOME WINE —AND GRINNING : )

Raoul
Guest
Raoul
2 months 2 days ago

What’s Ty got to grin about?

buck turgidson
Guest
buck turgidson
2 months 2 days ago

he doesn’t have to put on his knee-high boots to wade thru this steaming pile of a team..

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

He clearly didn’t want to in the offseason either, considering he just sat on his ass and literally instituted nothing new. Dude is either not capable or simply didn’t even try.

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

PROBABLY AT THIS STAGE —THE BEST THING TO DO——DON’T WANT J.R. TO BE AROUND / CREATING A CANCEROUS ENVIRONMENT ——-THANKS SWISH AND GOOD LUCK —BUT IT IS TIME TO PART WAYS —-DOES THIS CREATE A ROSTER OPENING OR NOT ?

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

AGREE WITH JRL IF –WE CAN GET A 2ND ROUNDER FOR J.R.—JUMP ON IT !!

NickNevers
Guest
NickNevers
2 months 2 days ago

Peace out JR. Thanks for the memories. Dude just doesn’t have it anymore and I understand the frustration, but it’s time. Miracle if we could get a decent trade for him.

JoeyB
Guest
JoeyB
2 months 2 days ago

His contract is worth something. He may not be traded until the offseason. Don’t matter either way.

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 2 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 2 days ago

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Good riddance. So sick of this. You don’t have to sign a contract. You don’t have to play in the NBA. You sign a contract, you must honor it. JR wasn’t offered anything by anyone else. He didn’t have to sign with the cavs, even though they way overpaid to retain him.

JRL
Guest
JRL
2 months 2 days ago

What a total mess.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Fultz is seeing a shoulder specialist at the urging of his attorney/agent. Shut down again. One night after McConnel plays well.

How desperate is Philly for shooting? Korver/Fultz match salaries. JR + Muscala & Fultz work. Think we can get picks as well? They have a ton of 2nds and their first is available. Or instead of Fultz?

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Definitely think we could get a first for KK by the deadline from them.

JRL
Guest
JRL
2 months 2 days ago

Any 2nd rounder for JR is fine by me.

KK is worth more, I would take Fultz for him straight up.

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

No. Fultz is a total bust.

nupe
Guest
nupe
2 months 2 days ago

Fultz is still young and no telling if he’ll snap out of it. A change of scenery, low expectations and ability to get significant minutes on a pitiful Cavs could be well suited for him. He’s still on a rookie deal and with JR essentially gone anyway, I’d take the potential of Fultz for KK or JR in a second.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Me too. I do not disagree with Nate’s assessment. But I look at it like this.

We need to catch a major break to get good anytime soon. We are not FA heaven. And Gilbert & Altman are not the A team FO.

Fultz is one year for $8 million. If he still sucks, cut bait. We have an open roster spot and need a third PG anyway.

If we land a stud this year + Love + Sexton & Fultz is salvageable, then Cedi/Nwaba/Nance/TT as role players and you have a start. Hood & Clarkson + some semi intelligent FA moves and we are decent next year.

And if Fultz somehow turns into a worthy #1 with a chip on his shoulder, you have something.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Sexton and Fultz can’t coexist. Too small. Not good enough outside shooting. For Clarkson, as you mentioned yesterday I would take a flyer. However, Korver gets you a first rounder. I am convinced someone will be desperate for his shooting by the deadline.

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

This was the game’s facepalm moment for me:

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

He isn’t Kyrie. With both bigs in the paint because of the nance tt lineups there is nowhere for him to go or pass to. You saw two drop passes to the roller last night that were cut off because the other big’s defender had sagged off into the paint to stop both the roll and drive. The other two shooters just stand there in our offense because their guys don’t need to help with the defender of the non-roller of tt or Nance just completely cheating off their man. They need to ditch that lineup.

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

No force in setting screens last night. You can’t run a double high screen against two sagging bigs and then have the defending guard navigate around them easily. It defeats the entire purpose.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

JR, Korver, and Hill are gone after this year. If not during the year.

I totally get their frustration and wanting to play for a contender. But if you are going to bitch & whine about where we are & not handle it professionally, you can sit.

Unfortunately, we need some of these guys to play (Hill, 1 wing, TT) as the roster construction is so poor. With Love out, we have no frontcourt shooting outside of Korver & JR, who are both SG/SFs. We have zero shooting at the SF/PF or PF/C. And lack a 3rd PG. And have an open roster spot.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

Is Korver whining? Seems like he is still rooting for his teammates and doing what he can when he plays.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

A couple things.

1) Sexton. It is hard to drive the paint with TT and LNJ at the 4/5. Both of their defenders sag. The lane is always clogged.

2) JR. The fact that he thinks anyone would trade for his $14.7 million dollar contract a year after forgetting the score in game 1 of the finals is amazing. Or not.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

On number one, spot on. Pointed this out in the game thread. You just can’t turn a corner if there are two bigs waiting and your defender is trailing. Same with the roller. Nowhere to go.

ChrisKorvalier
Guest
ChrisKorvalier
2 months 2 days ago

Any chance we can set P.O.D.’s “Set Your Eyes to Zion” as the theme song for this season?

I think the Cavs are definitely doing the right thing by showing a video to honor LeBron on Wednesday night. He won us the greatest championship of all time, and we never would have gotten it without him. Having said that, based on his comments the last couple days, I’m fine with any fans that want to boo him. He is the King of narcissism, and everything he ever said about The Land was basically a lie. If a negative response from the fans causes him to think less of us, so be it. He already doesn’t think very highly of us as things are now.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 2 days ago

I don’t know if everything he ever said about Cleveland was a lie. Clearly had other interests he didn’t think he could achieve in NE Ohio and his family obviously has and should have a say in where he goes. I don’t think going to la was about championships and that is fine.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 2 days ago

Much prefer Bob Marley Zion Train.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
2 months 2 days ago

Iron Lion Zion…

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 2 days ago

Seconded.

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

CAN WE TRADE J.R. FOR A GLEAGUE PROSPECT –( THAT IS ABOUT ALL WE ARE GOING TO GET AT PRESENT )—-OR JUST BITE THE BULLET AND WAIVE HIM

John B
Guest
John B
2 months 2 days ago

If you want more drives like that then they should forget a screener for the guards. Too easy for teams to defend and ignore one of the bigs with tt and Nance. That lineup is simply too crowded. Too easy for teams to ignore one of those two guys and use their defender to put another big in the paint waiting for both the roller and guard.

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

SO NOW –(ACCORDING TO THE ATHLETIC—NOT SURE HOW MUCH CREEDENCE THERE IS )—-SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE CAVS —-” PLAN WAS ALWAYS TO TANK “—–I THOUGHT WITHOUT LEBRON HERE / THERE WOULD BE LESS DRAMA ……………..” AND THE BEAT GOES ON……….THE BEAT GOES ON “

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 2 days ago

UNFORTUNATELY / BUT FACTUALLY —-THERE WILL BE MORE OF THESE WRITE UPS THIS YEAR THAN THE POSITIVE ——-DO NOT HAVE AN IMMEDIATE ANSWER AS THERE ARE TOO MANY HOLES TO FILL —–IS WHY YOU CALL IT REBUILD ——IMPORTANT FOR THE COACHES TO REALLY EVALUATE THE PLAYERS —–SEE WHO ARE KEEPERS FOR THE REBUILD AND WHO ARE NOT / BELIEVE THAT IS ALMOST MORE IMPORTANT THAN WINNING AT PRESENT——-COACH / TEACH / GIVE THE PLAYERS AS MUCH / WHATEVER THEY NEED TO DEVELOP THEIR SKILLS —–THEN DECIDE WHO CAN REALLY PLAY IN THIS LEAGUE——–THERE WILL BE A LEBRON TRIBUTE THIS WED / –ME PERSONALLY THINK IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO —-HOPING THE RECEPTION IS A POSITIVE ONE THAT THE KING DESERVES —–HOPING THAT HE DOESN’T ADD TO HIS HIGHLIGHT VIDEO INTHE GAME WED AGAINST US

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 2 days ago

I didn’t catch this one. I’ll be writing this a lot this season.

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