Podcast 184: Lue-sin’ It

Last season, when David Fizdale was relieved of his coaching duties by the Memphis Grizzlies, Tyronn Lue said he wasn’t worried about his own job, because “only bad coaches get fired.” Flash forward almost a year, and Lue now finds himself on the other end of that assertion. Was he a bad coach? Did he deserve more than six games to figure out how to make the Cavaliers competitive in a post LeBron landscape? And, was his sudden release more the result of his losing games… or losing a power struggle with his own front office?

To try and answer these questions and more, Nate, Tom and EG donned their headphones and hopped in the booth armed with their opinions, best guesses and possible conspiracy theories. We debate the reasons both real and imagined behind the jettisoning of the one coach in 60+ years to win a Championship in Cleveland, who his replacement might be (maybe or maybe not Larry Drew…), what course of action the Cavs should take going forward to either save or tank the season, and whether or not the owner isn’t just Lue-sin’ it… but lost it.

Overall, while we’ve all been critical in our own ways about Ty’s up and down tenure with the Cavs, we never enjoy seeing guys lose their jobs. No matter what, Lue was at the helm of the ship for the magical 2016 title… and nothing and no one can ever take that away.

Thanks Ty. We wish you the best.

As always, you can catch us above, on Soundcloud, Apple Podcasts or Google Play.

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LAbron
Guest
LAbron
2 months 24 days ago

Let’s get hammon now….Drew will not make a difference

JRL
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JRL
2 months 24 days ago

That’s a rather weird statement considering Drew went to the Cedi/Zz/good rotations last year when Lue was out.

Is/should he be the HC past this season? Hell no. But to say he won’t make a difference is rather quick to judge.

LAbron
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LAbron
2 months 23 days ago

Ok let’s see if he can make a difference. I bet the result will be same.

JRL
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JRL
2 months 23 days ago

It really won’t take much to make a difference-

*Play less TT and more Nance/Zz
*Run plays for KK
*Run plays for Love as opposed to just passing him the ball and expecting him to create.
*Smash Hood/Clarkson’s heads into the pavement if they take more than two long 2’s per game.
*Have Sexton watch replays of Oladipo and copy him as best possible.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

It’s January….

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 24 days ago

Time for Magic to trade for TT before it’s too late…

Ten ThOsman Maniacs
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Ten ThOsman Maniacs
2 months 24 days ago

They’ll need shooting too, so might as well pick up Hood and J.R.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 24 days ago

Good point. Hate to give up all that shooting, but if it helps Lebron, I’m okay with it…

Jason
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Jason
2 months 24 days ago

31/8/4 for Doncic in OT loss on 11/18 & 4/6 from deep. Did have 6 TOs.

Gonna be a strong class. Doncic & Ayton are the furthest along at the moment.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

FWIW, Lakers lose again. 2-5 with a tough early schedule & deserved suspensions (that should have been longer).

Doncic balling vs SAS. 23/7/2 on 9-12 FG.

John B
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John B
2 months 24 days ago

Going to be one hell of a rookie class.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 24 days ago

The NBA has entered a point where all statistical comparisons to prior eras are invalid. It is like passing/receiving yards in the modern era NFL or steriod era MLB with homers.

One has to know the context and adjust appropriately.

Not saying we did not take the wrong Thompson. We did.

buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 24 days ago

of course we took the wrong guy.. thats what we do..

buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 24 days ago

tristan likely misses when he is sitting on the can.. lefty, righty, squaty.. same result.. i dont go where its sposed to go..

buck turgidson
Guest
buck turgidson
2 months 24 days ago

and if we do by chance take the right guys.. off he flys to greener pastures

Simmo
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Simmo
2 months 24 days ago

Off-topic, but GSW just hit 110 pts with 5 left in the 3rd. Bull slaughter.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Sounds like Kerr pulled the starters

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Ok I am done with these rules. Has to be some contact on the perimeter. Doesn’t have to be 90s football, but there has to be some. Bring back verticality on the inside. This is typically going too far in one direction, as is human nature. The next step will be an overreaction the other direction and we will be back in the early 2000s.

Simmo
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Simmo
2 months 24 days ago

Couldn’t agree more.

Scotch
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Scotch
2 months 24 days ago

This would seem like the game to get our first win. Weird front office aside, Larry drew commands respect and also proved last year he has a better sense of who to play together. It’ll be tough without love but Atlanta just played tonight and got spanked by Philly. We will be at home and wanting to focus only on basketball. I think we get the win

buck turgidson
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buck turgidson
2 months 24 days ago

wrong..

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Well you’re just a bucket of sunshine aren’t you. Probably real enjoyable to be around.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 24 days ago

Rank the roster. If the Cavs had to win a game, today, who would you want out there? No player development. No potential. Who are our best players, right now?

For me: 1. Love, 2. Korver, 3. Hill, 4. JR, 5. Nance; 6. Cedi, 7. Nwaba, 8. Clarkson, 9. Sexton, 10. TT, 11. Frye, 12. Zizic, 13. Hood, 14. Dekker.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

In order, Love, Hill, Korver, Cedi, Nance, Zizic, Nwaba?, Frye, JR, Clarkson, Hood, Tt, Dekker.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Sexton after Clarkson.

Cedi Mind Tricks
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Cedi Mind Tricks
2 months 24 days ago

Love, Korver, Cedi, Zizic, Nwaba, Hill, Clarkson, Frye, JR, Hood, Sexton, Dekker, TT.

Cedi Mind Tricks
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Cedi Mind Tricks
2 months 24 days ago

Nance in between Hill and Clarkson.

Ten ThOsman Maniacs
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Ten ThOsman Maniacs
2 months 24 days ago

1. Love 2. Korver 3. Nance 4. Cedi 5. Hill 6. Clarkson 7. Nwaba 8. Sexton 9. Zizic 10. J.R. 11. Zizic

Ten ThOsman Maniacs
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Ten ThOsman Maniacs
2 months 24 days ago

Oops 11. Dekkar. Hood is not applicable

NOMAD
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NOMAD
2 months 24 days ago

INTERESTING STAT / BRIAN/ THANKS FOR SHARING—-WHY ISN’T BONZI SIGNED YET BY CHARGE / CAVS ?

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

He is on Canton’s roster, but the Cavs do not own his rights. NBA is not like MLB, they don’t have rights to all the guys on the roster. Just the two ways (Holland & Preston). They are the only one’s that can be called-up.

Now, if we offered him a contract first, I am sure he would sign it.

Raoul
Guest
Raoul
2 months 24 days ago

Help me out here. What works best:

Huey, Luey, AND

A: Phooey,
B: Pooey, or
C: Gooey Kablooey?

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

B

Turnipwagon
Guest
Turnipwagon
2 months 24 days ago

First of all, I want to mention that I love listening to your podcasts. It seems that about 1/3 or 1/2 of the time, your podcasts aren’t directly downloadable from this website. That is the case with the current one. Is it possible to make them all directly downloadable?

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 24 days ago

We do have to specifically enable downloads on each podcast, but I just validated that I did it with this one.

Brian Edwards
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Brian Edwards
2 months 24 days ago

I know there’s some context behind this stat for sure, but Nate Duncan pointed out on twitter today that Lue was 1-18 as a head coach in games Lebron didn’t play.

MikeO
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MikeO
2 months 24 days ago

The one win was a 99-98 game against the Mavs, I believe. But yeah, the Cavs weren’t built to succeed without Lebron, but you’d think Kyrie and Love could have won him a few more Lebron-less games…

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

I think I was at that game. I believe we had a big lead and lost it, barely holding on for the win.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
2 months 24 days ago

Sounds likely…

Phil Hubbard
Member
Phil Hubbard
2 months 24 days ago

Drew may pull a Belichick and resign as “HC of the CC.”

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

JOHN B
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JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

What a complete mess.

believeLAND
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believeLAND
2 months 24 days ago

How could the front office not know what the outlook of the season is coming into it? How could they so grossly miscalculate what this roster’s capabilities? This situation oozes with incompetence.

JoeyB
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JoeyB
2 months 24 days ago

Three Words: Duck Fan Gilbert. He believes he deserves a large share of credit for his management of the 2016 team, which is becoming more obvious by the day was solely the result of Lebron’s greatness. I don’t know if Koby is good or not, because it’s unclear who he is without Gilbert’s interference. I don’t think we’ll see this organization run competently until he realizes he can’t do it or he sells.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 24 days ago

Of the Cavs or Browns?

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Both!

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 24 days ago

” HUEY–LUEY–AND DO -WE -CLEVELANDER FANS HAVE TO BE THE MOST “LOYAL”—OR THE MOST “TOLERABLE ” :(———-THINK DAN AND JIMMY GOT TOGETHER LATE SATURDAY AND SAID LET’S SHAKE UP THE CLEVELAND SPORTS SCENE / GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO WRITE / TALK ABOUT —SINCE THEY CAN’T TALK ABOUT WINNING

Phil Hubbard
Member
Phil Hubbard
2 months 24 days ago

It was 15 years ago today…

daspec90
Guest
daspec90
2 months 24 days ago

I remember watching that game.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Todd Haley out too

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Good.

Anonymous
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Anonymous
2 months 24 days ago

Williams next?

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Maybe good? Though he hasn’t been terrible. Some of his calls have. But he has been ok I suppose.

Joshua Martin
Member
2 months 24 days ago

At least we aren’t the wizards. It could be worse.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

Shocking that a team that added Dwight Howard would perform worse than they did without him. Who could have foreseen that?

Joshua Martin
Member
2 months 24 days ago

The best part is he hasn’t even played a minute yet…

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

Yep. He is out with a sore butt.

believeLAND
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believeLAND
2 months 24 days ago

^lmaooooo

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 24 days ago

Awesome.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

Yeah. Maybe he gets to play more.

I have no issue with Hill, Korver, and JR getting minutes. They can all still play some and are on (essentially) expiring contracts. They need to play for a contender to want them.

But TT (no one is taking that contract) & Hood (cannot trade) drive me crazy. And to a lesser extent Clarkson. Still, we need reliable scoring, especially with Love out.

Jason
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Jason
2 months 24 days ago

Oops. Need for scoring should ewual more Ante & less TT.

JRL
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JRL
2 months 24 days ago

This is good news.

danz
Guest
danz
2 months 24 days ago

Hue and Lue gone. One coach helped bring a championship to Cleveland and the other brought historical records in losing. Say what you will about Lue, my lasting memory of him will always be him sitting on the bench balling his eyes out after winning Game 7, while I can’t think of anything lasting about Hue except “We are not going 1 and 15 again.”

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

They both did bring us a parade.

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 24 days ago

Well played, sir.

danz
Guest
danz
2 months 24 days ago

Damn, didn’t even think about that.

Also Browns fire their head coach during his winningest season.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

I know Franconia has had some misses the past couple years, but I still think he is one of the best mangers the Indians have ever had. Think it would be a mistake to get rid of him.

JRL
Guest
JRL
2 months 24 days ago

Haha that’s awesome.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

I still can’t believe that Hue outlasted Lue, even if it was only a day.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
2 months 24 days ago

Christopher
Guest
Christopher
2 months 24 days ago
Thanks, gentlemen. This sounds corporate, but clearly the firing was based on a lack of shared vision. The only question is, who changed his vision between June and now? No one will leak that, but everyone seemed to want to make the playoffs with a veteran squad just a few weeks ago. Who switched his vision at 0-6? It probably wasn’t Lue–the only thing Lue wants to switch is all defensive coverages (too easy…) Folks are saying the Cavs are a young team or an old team, but when you look at the roster, the team is neither: four rotation players are 30 or older (Love, Smith, Hill, and Korver; three are under 25 (Osman, Sexton, Dekker). That means the rest of the rotation is in its prime between 25 and 27 (Nance, Clarkson, Hood, Thompson). Add Frye (35), Nwaba (25), or Zizic (21) to the rotation, and the team still is a balance of young, old and in-between… shouldn’t this be some sort of asset, if at least in theory the team is coached up to its strengths? I can’t help but believe this team would not be changing coaches at 3-3. CavsDan prefers wins, but seeing the same… Read more »
JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago
The insane thing to me, is that while I never truly believed the cavs would really make the playoffs, I thought they could be close if Lue adjusted to the personnel they have now. Thought maybe if Lue did that, they would be around 9th to 10th in the east, which I was not happy about. Lose the pick and miss the playoffs. However, DG, Koby, and Lue all seemed to be on the playoff train so I expected that Kyle Korver to start and maybe JR to some extent to be in the regular rotation though. I know that Korver is crucial for this team if they want to be competitive this season, at least early on. Best shooter. Solid team defender. High bball iq. One of the only guys on the team that other teams absolutely must keep a body on at all times. So, why DG/Koby thought they could be competing without playing Korver 20-25 mpg, is utterly beyond me, and quite insane. If they wanted to make the playoffs, this team was always going to have a slim margin for error. That means they would need to put their best five (Love, Hill, Korver, Osman, and… Read more »
Ben Werth
Editor
2 months 24 days ago

The closest thing to a zone is actually a switch everything scheme.

I dont mind a 1-4 switch scheme with Love, Zizic and TT. Nance is actually fine to switch 1-5. Regardless, the execution has been the problem. They don’t understand when and against whom to tag off quickly. They don’t “know their personnel”.

Love can do a lot of what Jokic does, and even more in certain respects. But we can’t underestimate The Joker’s passing. Jokic will make the Hall of Fame because of his insane talent in that regard.

Dan Gilbert loves Collin. He probably loves Clarkson. Unless Drew can find a way to thwart their poor instincts, playing them big minutes will absolutely prevent wins. That might be the preferred plan anyway, but will be rough to watch.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Joker could maybe be the best passing big of all time. I haven’t seen many of Bill Walton’s Portland games, and obviously we didn’t get Sabonis in the nba until injuries wrecked him, but not sure I have seen anything like Jokic. Divac and Webber were tremendous, but I don’t think they were on Jokic’s level. Some of the stuff he does is incredible. I mean he is literally their point.

I think they need a more conservative d scheme. Partially because these guys just may not be great at complex switching schemes. Part because of our personnel. Obviously switching is all the rage because the three heavy spread offenses and more mobile bigs today. Just not sure we have the personnel to do it. Not sure a more conservative scheme would be a lot better, but I am not sure there would be as many mental miscues at least.

believeLAND
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believeLAND
2 months 24 days ago

I’m sorry but Love can not do what Jokic does. Jokic has the ball handling and court vision that is comparable to the best distributing guards of the last ten years, JKidd like possibly- which is insane being nearly seven feet tall. He is much more efficient in shooting from nearly every spot on the floor compared to Love. Jokic is legitimately becoming an MVP candidate.
Love has very specific comfort zones from the block and the elbow three. Outside of those, he is often awkward and struggles. You can’t run an offense through KLove, he is at his best as a secondary option.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Love can’t do what jokic can do to the effectiveness of Jokic. But you can run an offense through Love. He won’t be as effective, and it would run differently, but the cavs could do something similar to Denver’s sets. And love’s major comfort zone is the elbow. Was in Minny. We just never have sets that actually utilize his effectiveness from there. To do that you need lots of cutters and motion like Denver has. Jokic isn’t finding people in thin air. He is finding people because Gary Harris and Murray are constantly running around and cutting or giving and go with Jokic. We have never had any sets with the motion that denver’s has had. Really Denver runs a similar offense to Adelman’s old kings teams.

Also Love is likely in fact much better from the elbow now than the low block given he shed weight.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

And btw, remember who Love’s coach was when he thrived in Minny….yep Rick Adelman.

grover13
Guest
grover13
2 months 24 days ago

It’s not just execution. It’s the personnel.

I get Gilbert being enamored with the scheme because Golden State does it so well. But people seem to forget a big reason why it works well is that- aside from Curry- they can load the floor with strong athletes between 6’7 and 6’10’ that can all cover at least three positions. I look on the Cavs roster, I see Nance, Cedi, Nwaba….and that’s about it. Everyone else on the roster has defensive limitations. Switch-everything is probably the WORST possible defensive scheme for the roster as it currently stands.

So, yes, the coaching staff deserves blame for that. But, if you knew all summer that was the scheme you intended to play, then the front office deserves blame as well for not acquiring players to fit that scheme. Stuff like- oh, I dunno- maybe selecting a rangy athlete (SGA, Miles Bridges) instead of a height-challenged shoot-first PG with your top pick?

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

If we want to develop young players, why carry 14 instead of 15?

Makes no sense. Sign Colson.

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 24 days ago

CHARGE STARTS THIS WEEK—MIGHT BE A BETTER PRODUCT THAN THE CAVS—-MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPETE AGAINST THEM ——-NATE WILL LET YOU KNOW IF I HEAD DOWN THAT WAY OR TO A “CHEAP SEAT “CAVS GAME

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

Love was missing pre-season games with foot soreness. So the idea that this is some post-firing ‘trade me’ move is ridiculous.

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 24 days ago

ANYBODY INTERESTED IN GOING TO SEE THE CAVS —SHOULD BE PLENTY OF CHEAP TICKETS AVAILABLE —–SIGH !!

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 24 days ago

Honestly had a ball despite the loss Saturday. Getting great seats cheap is gonna be awesome.

Tom Pestak
Admin
2 months 24 days ago

A guy my company just hired is a huge Cleveland sports fan. He was at the game on Saturday too. He brought me an empty shoe box!

Nate Smith
Admin
2 months 24 days ago

Gonna hit the charge home opener!

NOMAD
Guest
NOMAD
2 months 24 days ago

WITH LOVE OUT—BRING UP BONZI OR PRESTON——ALSO GREAT OPPORTUNITY–I HOPE FOR ANTE—–BAD LUCK WITH LOVE ——–TYPICAL CAVS THOUGH !!——“AND THE BEAT GOES ON…………THE BEAT GOES ON “

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 24 days ago

Colson is not signed. Cannot play for the Cavs as is.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 25 days ago

TT & Hood need less minutes.

Nwaba, Nance/Zizic need more.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
2 months 24 days ago

Korver needs 20-25 if they actually want to win anything. Will say it again. Needs to start. Doesn’t have to play starter minutes, but likely needs to start. Maybe you start Sexton, Korver, Cedi, Love (when he gets back) and Nance. Then you have Hill, Nwaba, Hood or Clarkson, Zizic, and shudder Dekker. Or I would just maybe go big with Frye and zizic. Troublesome d, but at least you might have spacing with Frye, Hill, Nwaba, and Hood (if he were to take a three).

Raoul
Guest
Raoul
2 months 25 days ago

Huey, Luey, and whoey?

Ben Werth
Editor
2 months 24 days ago

you speak Russian? 😂

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 months 25 days ago

Phoey?

Nate Smith
Admin
Charlie E
Guest
Charlie E
2 months 24 days ago

omg please no…

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
2 months 24 days ago

“Lemme tell you something…Lebron James isn’t walking through that door….Kyrie Irving isn’t walking through that door…”

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
2 months 25 days ago

“Everything is awful”

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
2 months 25 days ago

Windhorst reporting that Cavs think Love could miss more than a month with his ailing toe. I like the Cavs chances to win 15 or less at this point.

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
2 months 25 days ago

Thanks gents. Nice breakdown by Nate & EG at the end about what the lineup & focus should be. Did Tom’s son want to join the podcast?

I hope they show Larry Drew the money, I think he’s a good coach.

For the record, I don’t agree with the sentiment of this tweet but I did laugh:

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
2 months 25 days ago

Only a few minutes in, thanks for podcasting. My guess is Altman will say something along the lines of ‘we had different organizational philosophies moving forward’. I doubt they mention the won/ loss record much.

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
2 months 25 days ago

My main beef is why they waited until this point – surely they knew he wasn’t the coach for a young team on the rebuild. And 6 games is enough? Fizdale was an option!! The timing of all of this is just like the Kyrie exit – if executed at the right time, everyone wins. If not….bow bow. Now bow bow deja vu. I think EG is right, think a powerplay didn’t work out.

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