ECF Not A Recap: Boston 108, Cleveland 83 (Or, The Mother’s Day Massacre)

Well, that was disappointing. I never thought I’d have to do a “Not A Recap” for a playoff game, but here we are. I just couldn’t justify putting more effort into a recap than the Cavs did into this game, taking more time away from my own Mother. On Sunday afternoon the Cleveland Cavaliers reverted back to the state they were in when the playoffs began. Unfortunately, instead of a feisty Pacers team, this afternoon drubbing came at the hands of the Boston Celtics who are absolutely devastated by injuries. President Stevens and the Celtics have been punching far above their weight all playoffs long and the trend continued in Game One of the Eastern Conference Finals. However, I didn’t see anything all that different out of Boston than I did when they played Indiana. Kudos to them for taking us to the wood shed but I consider this more of a Cavaliers loss than a Celtics win.

From the moment the Cavs stepped on the court it was clear they were not going to be able to match the intensity and activity levels of Boston. After missing a few open threes they settled back on their haunches and watched as the Celtics played their hearts out. Maybe LeBron is more of a master tactician than we all think, his post-game interview certainly seemed like that might be the case. Maybe the amount of rest the Cavs had was too much rest, sort of like a slowly accelerating locomotive. Maybe Boston is really that good. I just can’t see LeBron with another 7 turnover game. Or the Cavs shooting 15.4% from three. Fifteen percent?! Yeah, you read that right. Cleveland went a woeful 4 of 26 for the night. And there were plenty of open looks so it wasn’t a result of some suffocating defense laid out by the great and powerful Stevens. Here are the highlights. Or, from our perspective, low-lights.

Some Quick Notes:

1) LeBron’s stat line was very atypically inefficient in this one. He finished the night with 15 points, 9 assists, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks. It’s crazy that we can look at a line like that and it still be bad for LeBron. That’s how good he usually is. Unfortunately he shot only 5-16 (0-5 from distance) and had 7 turnovers. He did continue his free throw shooting excellence though as he went 5-6 from the line. Boston shouldn’t count on another game like this by the King.

2) Kevin Love wasn’t any less effective than anyone else on the court and was Cleveland’s leading scorer at 17. It was good to see that he won’t take the brunt of this loss as he has in the past.

3) Once Cleveland started missing threes, instead of taking the ball to the hoop, they continued to settle for outside jumpers until the game was well out of hand. Hopefully this won’t be a trend. I can’t imagine they will want to replicate a 4-26 night from beyond the arc.

4) Tristan Thompson was actually not awful and brought a little bit more energy than his teammates tonight. He had a team high 11 rebounds and gave the Cavs just a couple more chances to miss some more threes.

5) Kudos to Boston’s young guys. They played hard and hit some tough shots. Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum are going to be legit for a long time to come. I don’t think they’ll be enough over the course of seven games, but we’ll see.

I still expect this to be an outlier game. The Cavs just didn’t look like they had any legs to keep up with the young and hungry Celtics. Boston was the team with something to prove and as LeBron said in his interview, “I have zero level of concern. I never went to college. This isn’t March Madness.” And he’s right. To a point. I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see how they come out on Tuesday night. This was Mother’s Day so most of us here at CtB had some mothers to celebrate so apologies on behalf of all the writers that this was all we could get up. Looking forward to Tuesday allowing me to forget about this travesty, Go Cavs!

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Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

Holy **** what happened to William Shatner?

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

THEY”RE SO FAR UP! just screen and drive or screen and roll.

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

Horford totally fouled Love.

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

Whoa. Think James practiced some threes?

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

James redeems with a three.

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

Grr. Two bad turnovers already.

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

Hill!

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

*sigh* Good early action to get an uncovered strongside.

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

God, I hate Brad Stevens

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 22 hours ago

live thread up.

RightDownEuclid (the first)
Guest
RightDownEuclid (the first)
7 days 22 hours ago

And the winner is….LaLa Land!

JRL
Guest
JRL
7 days 22 hours ago

Not trying to be an ass but why no draft/game2 thread??

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 22 hours ago

It’s up.

Mr. Green in the Library w/ Jrs Laid Pipe
Guest
Mr. Green in the Library w/ Jrs Laid Pipe
7 days 22 hours ago

Man Nick does not look well. I hope this is him getting better and not his condition worsening.

Nate Smith
Admin
7 days 21 hours ago

Looks better actually.

RightDownEuclid (the first)
Guest
RightDownEuclid (the first)
7 days 22 hours ago

His condition causes spontaneous growth of tumors. I’m not sure he’s actually in pain/discomfort at any given time.

Jason
Guest
Jason
7 days 22 hours ago

TT starting for Korver.

RightDownEuclid (the first)
Guest
RightDownEuclid (the first)
7 days 22 hours ago

when do we put the balls in the tubes?

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
7 days 22 hours ago

At the very last possible moment…and after these messages!

Mr. Green in the Library w/ Jrs Laid Pipe
Guest
Mr. Green in the Library w/ Jrs Laid Pipe
7 days 22 hours ago

Nick survived brain surgery…getting the #1 pick is guaranteed. Glad you are on stage lil’ dude!

Vintage
Guest
Vintage
7 days 22 hours ago

If they completely randomized all 14 picks instead of just the top 3, I’m sure tanking would be eliminated.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
7 days 23 hours ago

If the Cavs win the lottery again, the game will just be gravy. Bill Simmons would get so violent on twitter that the nice doctors with the net would finally come and take him off in a rubber truck to his rubber room where he can live happily ever after.

Glorious.

RightDownEuclid (the first)
Guest
RightDownEuclid (the first)
8 days 3 hours ago

Ug I have serious heartburn about tonight. Can’t remember the last time the Cavs had such a big challenge in a series they’re supposed to win. All the pressure is on us this series.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 2 hours ago

Are we supposed to win though?

RightDownEuclid (the first)
Guest
RightDownEuclid (the first)
8 days 1 hour ago

If we (at full strength regardless of how weird this season has been) can’t beat a Boston team missing their two best players while featuring a rookie and second year player with only 1 vet…that’s not a good look for LeBron, his teammates, Ty Lue or the Cavs organization

Gordon
Guest
Gordon
8 days 49 minutes ago

The guy is putting up historically great numbers and we went 7 with Indiana. Not sure there is any outcome, even a sweep by Boston, that results in a “bad look” for LeBron, sans him playing poorly.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 3 hours ago

would be impressed if houston, cavs/boston combine to win even a single game against gsw.

Sim
Guest
Sim
8 days 4 hours ago

U guys here think tt in starting lineup would be the correct move??

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 3 hours ago

To alter the series, cavs need to execute their offense at a high level and win the minutes where they run the line up of Love, Lebron, Korver, JR, Hill.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 3 hours ago

I think it’s a bit more complex, as Boston can counter TT with Baynes to neutralize his offensive rebounding ability. Hence, Horford would not be playing the five position – Boston removes the Horford-TT match up from the equation.

Nate Smith
Admin
8 days 3 hours ago

Basically, TT should mirror Horford’s minutes.

Nate Smith
Admin
8 days 3 hours ago

Yes.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 4 hours ago

Yes, and I think TT will have a great game and might also help Lebron get going.

JRL
Guest
JRL
8 days 4 hours ago

I wouldn’t do it if I was Lue, but I also don’t think it’s the wrong move. I say put him out there on a short leash and see.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 2 hours ago

I would say it can’t hurt that much based off the result of the first game.

JRL
Guest
JRL
8 days 5 hours ago

Talks about the draft just remind me of the Anthony Bennett pick. What a f’ing disaster.

Oladipo, Giannis, CJ and Gobert were all there for the taking. I wanted Oladipo next to Kyrie. Man that would had been great.

NickNevers
Guest
NickNevers
8 days 2 hours ago

Very true, but would it have mattered though? Whoever it was drafted was going to be traded for Love anyways.

JRL
Guest
JRL
7 days 22 hours ago

That was the following draft.

JRL
Guest
JRL
8 days 5 hours ago

Any Cavs preview for tonight’s game?

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 7 hours ago

This is pretty funny and basically shows the difficulty of ISO ball from the perimeter against the current warriors, not necessarily for the guy using the ISO set but for the role players in the spread ISO.

Apparently Houston had an absurd 14 possessions where 3 or fewer seconds remained on the shot clock before a shot was put up. 14 times they nearly ran out of clock and had to put up a prayer/contested shot. Crazy. That won’t get it done. There is a reason why everyone on Houston besides Harden was something like 8/28 on threes.

Cavs will of course run into similar problems if they make it to the finals and play a similar style. Fortunately, Houston plays even more iso than us and from the top of the key/wing much of the time which I feel like leads to more of these late clock situations than LBJ’s postups do. However, last year the cavs had two guys who could get a good shot (for them) with that little time left on the clock. This year we have one.

John B
Guest
John B
8 days 6 hours ago

Also this is even funnier and pretty much sums up the problems with how Houston plays against gs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/the-warriors-are-better-than-the-rockets-1826038408/amp

John B
Guest
John B
8 days 6 hours ago

This is hilarious writing and one of the funniest lines I have ever read in a bball article:

“That, in turn, partly is due to the fact that the Warriors have Kevin Durant, but more importantly it’s because the Warriors know more ways to score than standing around like fu#$&ng idiots while their Designated Ball User dribbles a Morse Code War and Peace into the hardwood in 22-second chapters.”

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
8 days 7 hours ago

Bill Simmons beside himself with smugness on Lowe Post. I really, really need Cavs to shut him up tonight.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
8 days 6 hours ago

I didn’t even listen to it. I would have if Celtics had lost that game. He is insufferable, but he’s no different than 95% of Celtics fans.

JMay
Guest
JMay
8 days 7 hours ago

We all do, Simmo. We all do.

Jason
Guest
Jason
8 days 9 hours ago

If the Cavs or Philly win the lotto tonight, that would help a lot with making someone a contender to GSW. Ditto Cavs/Philly in top 3.

Though almost all of Philly’s shooters are FAs (Reddick, Belinelli, Ilyasova).

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 8 hours ago

Watch the lakers pick get the 2-3 spot and go to the Celtics. If the league wants another super super team to challenge gs, it would pretty much take care of that. Replace Horford with Ayton, Bagley, or Jackson or trade that pick plus other pieces for Kawhi.

Raoul
Guest
Raoul
8 days 7 hours ago

Right. The league is warming up the freezer even as we speak.

Vintage
Guest
Vintage
8 days 10 hours ago

Unfortunately it doesn’t matter if you think Draymond and Klay are too 10 or top 20… the fact remains that they both are tailor made fits for this Warriors system. KD, Steph, Klay and Draymond together are greater than the sum of their parts. Just as you say that Klay and Draymond couldn’t produce the same as other #1 options (Butler, PG, Oladipo, etc), you can make similar arguments that Steph isn’t the same without those two (elite shooting of Klay and Swiss Army knife Draymond).

At least history will always show this is what it took to beat LeBron in his prime and that Durant’s move was one of the weakest in the history of sports.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous
8 days 4 hours ago

Not to mention they are coached by the best in the game. They don’t just iso or pass, they pass to get the exact iso they want and then they have the players to execute.

Jason
Guest
Jason
8 days 9 hours ago

The Mavs beat Bron in his prime. The Spurs beat Bron in his prime (should have been twice).

I wouldn’t count 2015 due to the injuries. Nor do I consider Cleveland 1.0 Bron’s prime (though he was winning MVPs & we had the best record twice). If that is prime Bron, throw Boston (twice) & Orlando in there.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 8 hours ago
I would say Mavs and 2010 Celtics were certainly an outliers and the only playoff series where he himself got beat or rather failed to compete to his full abilities. By the time 2014 came around, Wade was nowhere near what he was. The Spurs had TP still near the top of his game, Duncan who was still an all star caliber player in 25-28 minutes a night, Manu who was still pretty good, Kawhi who was a budding superstar, and one of the greatest benches the league has ever seen as far as their effectiveness. They sort of were a super team. Did Ray Allen make a three to basically save a game in 2013? Sure. But Jordan had Kerr and Paxton make game winning baskets in the finals too. The cavs by all rights should have had no chance in the first era save that James made those teams so so much better than their actual talent. He took them farther/made them better than anyone in nba history could have. His second best players during those years were Larry brickhouse Hughes, and then Mo freaking Williams, and a washed up Antwan Jamison. Against the teams he faced, they… Read more »
JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 10 hours ago

Pretty much. I mean those four guys, whether Klay and Green are top 10 or top 20 are basically the greatest individual talent assembled since the 62-63 Celtics that had Russell, Cousy, Heinsohn, Sam Jones, and Havlichek in and his rookie year. I think they are about equal to the rest of those Celtics teams of the 60s after Cousy retired.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 10 hours ago

Agreed.

Jason
Guest
Jason
8 days 9 hours ago

Thirded. The Dubs with Durant will go down as the second most talented team in league history: behind the various Celtic teams from the 50’s & 60’s that had 7-8 HOFers on them at various times: Russell, Cousy, Heinsohn, Sharman, Ramsey, Sam Jones, and Havlicek being the core guys over 11 titles & 12 Finals.

Of course, Dubs still have some work to do to climb the Dynasty ladder.

1) Russell’s C: 11 in 13 years. 8 straight.
2) Mikan Lakers: 6/7 + 7 in 8 for Mikan
3) Jordan Bulls: 6 in 8 & he sat one year
4) Magic & Kareem: 5 in 9
5) Duncan: 4 in 9 (+1 later)
6) Shaq & Kobe: 3 straight
7) Bird’s Cs: 3 in 6
8) ABA Pacers: 3 in 4

Everyone else is stuck on two.

Kevin
Guest
Kevin
8 days 10 hours ago

Seriously though…how fun would it be to be a warriors fan these past two years? Just complete domination. I hate them.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 5 hours ago

I don’t know, I think they themselves realize the absurdity of that team.

JMay
Guest
JMay
8 days 9 hours ago

Bah, I’m sure I wouldn’t be saying this if I was the fan of the team but feels super hollow. Losing to the Dubs means nothing because it’s pretty clear that the advantage they own is so severe. The only thing that has any meaning anymore is if someone is able to upset the Dubs. Everything else results in a shoulder shrug because that’s what we all knew was going to happen back in October… Sure, there are other teams around the League that have surprised this season but ultimately it doesn’t really matter much because we know the ending to the story. Golden State games should be blacked out and completely hidden from the public until the playoffs because every game is just spoiling the end of the season. It’s like watching the series finale of GoT before you watch each episode before it…

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 8 hours ago

Yawp. Basically how I have felt since the summer of 2016. It is what it is. At this point I am just enjoying LBJ in the playoffs. The 25 and 3 in the last two years of the playoffs pretty much says it all. I will be super impressed if the rockets get two and that team was literally built specifically to matchup with the warriors. I am sticking with the dubs in 5 though.

Scotch
Guest
Scotch
8 days 13 hours ago

I do LOVE how the warriors in their interviews after the game talked about how great kevin durant is. Cuz…winning one title by themselves was so hard they needed a freakin break. unreal. and warriors fan…please keep comparing your all time great team to the 2010 cavs in justifying the need for Kevin Durant. The league hasn’t been this lopsided in talent since the bill russell celtics. It’s laughable.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 10 hours ago

I can’t remember a team in the modern era that would win back to back titles losing just 2 games in each playoff run. I believe they only lost one game last playoff run.
That’s just explain how lopsided the league is right now.
And to be honest they could easily do it again for the next two or three years unless the Celtics can add AD or KL to their roster this off-season.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 10 hours ago

Yeah I hate this. I knock the 90s Jordan era in terms of the competition he had to face, but in many ways it was a healthier league with so much talent spread across the league. Heck even in the 80s you had two super teams that were very evenly matched for most of the decade. Plus another in the early 80s Philly teams.

The fact that the only way to beat gs is to assemble another team with basically four all stars (Tatum is headed there quick) is seriously going to kill playoffs if Boston gets another superstar in Kawhi. I doubt NO trades AD this year. Only way they could be challenged in the east is if LBJ goes to philly. If LBJ goes to Houston, they still would be underdogs I think since they would have to gut their roster to get him there.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 4 hours ago

How about if Lebron goes to Philadelphia and make a coaching change ?

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 2 hours ago

I guess they might be more competitive…but that fit with Simmons is questionable.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 5 hours ago

Totally agree with you, the league might need to come up with some type of player ranking or something and force the team owners to just have for example like two superstars per team.
I always thought that the league should re-draft right before each season starts. Tell the owners you can keep just 3 players of your current roster and send the rest of the players to a draft.
The teams with the worst records would have to pick first.
I know it’s a crazy idea, specially with the players contracts.
But they definitely need to change something.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 18 hours ago

AD and Kawhi would have to be added to Boston’s current roster without losing anyone for there to be a challenge to GSW.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 18 hours ago

You could replace Hayward with one of those guys and challenge. Ky, Kawhi, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Horford, Smart is close. Tatum is going to be an all star caliber player sooner rather than later, like as in next year. Brown is probably going to be too in time.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 18 hours ago

You’re better off with Rozier than Ky. Need AD for tough buckets. Otherwise, play within an offensive system and focus on defense (need Kawhi cause he’s the only one in the league who can just slightly make KD uncomfortable)

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 18 hours ago

I am not going that far yet. Rozier is nice, but Stevens can win with Ky. I am sure he can make that work. You also could not defend the death lineup with both AD and Horford out there. Ky, Kawhi, Brown, Tatum, and Horford would be ridiculous defensively even against the death lineup despite Iriving and be crazy potent on offense. Tatum guards Klay. Kawhi on Durant. Brown on Curry. Horford on Green. Ky on iggy.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 18 hours ago

They would just use pick and force switch Ky on to KD or Steph. You could have either Rozier or Smart out there for entire 48. Rozier/Smart, Tatum, Kawhi, Brown, AD would be what is needed.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 16 hours ago

Sure if they got both Kawhi AND AD. That would be insane because it would almost certainly mean that one of the two got traded essentially 1-1 with Hayward or Irving. No doubt the lakers pick, if it fell this year, or philly/sac pick next year would be required to get one of those guys in addition to Ky/Hayward. Especially since Ky would be an expiring contract. Don’t think Hayward alone plus the Celtics own first is enough to fetch the other.

Also forcing a switch on a good defensive team is sometimes easier said than done. Ky did fine on Curry defensively in 2016 and he certainly improved in Boston.

RC Kim
Member
8 days 14 hours ago

I think the Celtics could get Kawhi pretty easily if he really wants out, Heyward + Kings’ #1 in 2019 for Kawhi and Patty Mills’ bad contract should do the trick. They probably could even offer a decent package for AD, something like Brown, Horford and the Grizzlies and Clippers #1s in 2019 for AD and Solomon Hill’s bad contract. That Memphis pick is top 8 protected in 2019, top 6 protected in 2020 and unprotected in 2021. That could be a hell of an asset considering they should fall off a cliff right around then.

PG – Irving
SG – Smart
SF – Tatum
PF – Kawhi
C – AD
Bench – Rozier, Morris, Baynes, Ojeleye, Larkin

Add a couple of vets chasing rings and that team could hang with even the Warriors, and they would peak just as the Dubs get old. Some scary health issues though.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
8 days 10 hours ago

Yeah, thanks Billy King and Nets management. Really great play there.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 12 hours ago

Jeese. I didn’t realize they had those other picks. How in the heck did they get both of those? Ugh. Well they could be a new super team by the end of this offseason.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 10 hours ago

And DG sent Kyrie to the Celtics.
He really did KI a favor.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 10 hours ago

Yeah I didn’t realize they had so many potential high picks left in the war chest after giving up the nets pick. Probably would have made me think twice if I was Gilbert.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 5 hours ago

Should had gotten at least another first round pick out of the trade.

Raoul
Guest
Raoul
8 days 4 hours ago

You might recall that the Cavs held out for more, and finally got some kind of crumb.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 2 hours ago

I might have forgone trading with Boston altogether just to prevent them from the possibility of building a team to challenge/take over the cavs. Of course no one knew how good Tatum would be so soon….

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
8 days 19 hours ago

Hamptons 5 may be the lamest sports nickname of all time. Typical lameness of Tim Kawakani.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 19 hours ago

Just so stupid that this is an actual team. Ridiculous.

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
8 days 19 hours ago

Rockets unable to stop Curry’s layups. Didn’t see that being the difference.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 19 hours ago

Hope Silver and the owners make serious changes to the next CBA.

Jason
Guest
Jason
8 days 9 hours ago

They think superteams are good for the league (vomit).

If they would have incrementally raised the cap instead of that huge jump, it would not gave been possible. Players deserve some blame as well for wanting the big jump immediately. Led by Bron & CP3.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 8 hours ago

As far as Silver, to a point he does. However, Silver came out and said after the Durant signing that it wasn’t good for the league and then stated he thinks the CBA needs to be overhauled during the next negotiations.

I mean a lot of this is driven by players too in a positive feedback loop. Guys saw other guys team up and then realized they couldn’t compete without teaming up and subsequently it has led to what amounts to an arms race as far as guys deciding to form super teams. The more talent assembled, the more other guys/FOs want to accumulate talent.

It can’t always be via free agency but with the increased power players have in demanding trades, it forces the hands of franchises of stars who want to be traded. Ironically, KY’s trade was the opposite of this. Instead of wanting to go to a super team or stay on the cavs super team, he emulated his mentor Kobe and decided he wanted his own team. The opposite of what most guys are doing these days.

Mike Podracky
Guest
Mike Podracky
8 days 19 hours ago

GS with Durant is just perverse. Wimpiest NBA move of all time. They were beatable last year and this one without him.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 19 hours ago

Would not beat Houston or Lebron without KD.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
8 days 19 hours ago

Harden must feel a little like Lebron tonight…doing it all, and a lot of people not helping a lot.

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
8 days 19 hours ago

Wow they actually called GSW on their illegal screens. Curry in shock.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 19 hours ago

I mean they have four of the top ten players in the league on one team. That’s never happened in the history of the league. What do you want?

Jason
Guest
Jason
8 days 9 hours ago

Two of the top 5 (Curry & Durant). The other two are perfect fits.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 19 hours ago

Two top five and two top 20. Green and Klay are nowhere near as good on another team.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 10 hours ago

Agreed, but you can also say that they are the Western all Stars or even Team USA.
When they play their death line up. They are basically team USA. The way they rest Iguodala during the season to use him in the playoffs is like he could play for three more seasons easily.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 8 hours ago

All true.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 19 hours ago

Green is a top ten player. Klay is the best shooter in the league and only behind Kawhi as a two-way wing player. I’d be hard pressed to find players better than them to fill out the top ten.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 19 hours ago

LBJ, Durant, AD, Curry, Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, Paul, Jimmy Butler, Paul George, or Dipo (two way), Westbrook (winning 50 games with that old team last year).

You couldn’t put green or Draymond on another team and expect them to carry a team like the rest of those guys. They rely on the gs offense to get theirs. Dray is just not that effective on another team and Klay’s d is a bit overrated.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 16 hours ago

If you don’t look at stats, Draymond is top 10 player. Your list includes players with better stats but not better game.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 16 hours ago

I don’t see him having anywhere near the same type of defensive or playmaking impact on another team in a different system. A lot of his playmaking is setup by the Curry screen and roll with him with shooters you can’t leave spread out. You take that type of unguardable situation away and I don’t see the same type of creation. Same defensively. He isn’t going to be a Gobert level defensive player on a team that can’t switch everything like the warriors.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 7 hours ago

JohnB, Draymond in Curry’s absence did even better as play maker. Also, Curry needs Draymond as much as Draymond needs Curry to shine.

You are right about Gobert’s comparison. At the same time, it is hard for me to find another player that can truly defend all five positions.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 18 hours ago

Klay or draymond

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 18 hours ago

Butler, George, and Dipo are together as in take your pick. Each of them would be more impactful than Green or Klay as a number one on a team that is not the warriors.

believeLAND
Guest
believeLAND
8 days 19 hours ago

No way Paul, Butler, PG, Dipo are better than Green and Klay.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 18 hours ago

But those two guys are top 20 even if taken off gs. They just aren’t top 10 on their own because so much of what they do is based around the warriors unique system/style of play.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 18 hours ago

Yeah they are. Klay and green could not carry a team like Bulter did with Chicago, or George or Dipo did with Indy. No way no how. They cannot carry an offense like those guys have.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 19 hours ago

They are good on their own, but they are great because of Kerr’s system. They wouldn’t be elsewhere.

RC Kim
Member
8 days 15 hours ago
I have to agree with John B, there is no way to me that Klay or Draymond are categorically top 10 NBA players. There is no such tier. Obviously there is top tier of super-duperstars (LeBron, Steph, Durant, Harden, Kawhi, AD, Giannis) who plainly are better than Klay and Draymond. That’s 7 spots in the top 10 taken up right there. I think most people would rate CP3 and Russ over Draymond and certainly Klay. So that’s 9 slots filled. Projecting for potential, I think many teams would consider Ben Simmons, Embiid, KAT and maybe even guys like Tatum, Mitchell, Jokic and Kristaps to be as valuable than Draymond or Klay individually. Among veterans if we are just talking about current production in a lead role, there are players like Oladipo, Kyrie, Hayward, George, Butler, Dame, Rudy Gobert, Chris Paul, LeMarcus and DeMarcus. There are also vets who had down years or stunk it up in the playoffs so they don’t look so hot right now, but you viewed their careers through a prism of the last 3-4 years you’d have to rank them below Draymond but arguably at the level of Klay, like John Wall, Blake Griffin, Mike Conley,… Read more »
JRL
Guest
JRL
8 days 11 hours ago

I’m with John and RC. Klay is a great shooter but he can’t carry a team as the number one option.

Green’s defense is good but again, he’s good next two 3 all-stars (2 hof). Put him in any other team besides the Spurs, Rockets, Celtics and Cavs, and he’s an average offensive player with a bit better D. Overrated.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 19 hours ago

Harden showed up tonight. Didn’t expect that. Thought he would get shut down. Good for him. Probably won’t change the outcome because this series is going to be over in five. Calling it for the umpteenth time. Fra$ds in 5.

Simmo
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Simmo
8 days 19 hours ago

Rockets pushing back with Harden on the bench – impressive.

Mike Podracky
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Mike Podracky
8 days 19 hours ago

Gordon is Jordan Clarkson bad

MikeO
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MikeO
8 days 19 hours ago

He’s brutal tonight…

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 19 hours ago

As great as Durant is he would have gotten more credit if he did all of this against the Warriors but since he just played the if you can’t beat them then joined them card he would never be as great as LeBron is.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 16 hours ago

Lebron had the same reputation, he couldn’t lead team hence joined Wade. No one remembers that now. Can’t fault someone for finding situation that fits them best.

JMay
Guest
JMay
8 days 9 hours ago
C’mon now WF, you’ve made this argument here before. Like JOHN B said below, you’d be completely ignoring any context. There is a difference between grabbing another couple all-stars and going and building something on a team that was mediocre and straight up joining one of the greatest teams in history as the second best player in the league. Oh ya, not to mention that team he joined was the one he choked against to lose in the WCF just a couple months earlier… You are doing the old, “Oh, its different because I’m a fan of the team he joined” trick. If KD had even joined LeBron in CLE it’d be less of a punk move than joining three other all-stars and a 73 win team. KD can say all he wants about making the best move for himself and him not caring about what other people think and touting that this is no different than ‘Bron’s move to Miami. When all is said and done everyone but GS fans will see that he couldn’t win on his own so he joined a juggernaut. He didn’t create his own juggernaut. And that’s the difference. It must be nice for… Read more »
warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 7 hours ago

JMay, warriors won a championship without Durant, won 73 games and were leading 3-1 in finals before the best comeback ever and lost the series. Warriors proved very much capable of winning the championship by themselves.

Rockets with better coach and system had a chance to take down warriors this year, same if Kawhi was healthy and if cavs did well in Kyrie’s trade. If Rockets had better game plan, they would have won yesterday. A game plan that doesn’t include Harden dribbling ball for 20 secs and taking shot and pretty much taking his teammates out, that too at home where role players play better. Warriors ISO more on road than at home because the role players play well at home than on road and you have KD.

So, yes, KD with warriors make warriors tough to beat but not impossible to beat.

JMay
Guest
JMay
8 days 7 hours ago

You are proving my point WF. “. . . warriors won a championship without Durant, won 73 games and were leading 3-1 in finals before the best comeback ever and lost the series. Warriors proved very much capable of winning the championship by themselves.”

This just confirms what I’m saying, that statement shows that they were one of the greatest teams in history who only lost the championship by 1 total point over the course of seven games to the greatest player to ever step foot on the court. And then they went out and added KD… That destroys any sort of competition.

Of course nothing is impossible. As I say above in another statement, the only thing anyone can root for is for the rare miraculous upset. I’d rather not watch 95% of the games where Warriors manhandle whoever they play only to HOPEFULLY glimpse the other 5% of the time where the Warriors are upset… and “KD with warriors make warriors tough to beat. . .” is like the biggest understatement I’ve heard in recent memory. Ya, and LeBron is pretty decent at basketball, too. Hot take express here…

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 6 hours ago

Sorry, I mixed up my responses, that response that warriors proved they could win championship wa to some of the posters who said, they couldn’t without Durant.

Curry is playing well but not playing at MVP level. So, this playoffs Warriors don’t really have two MVP level players. Without Curry, warriors won comfortably and with Curry not at his best, they are winning against best reg season team and perhaps 2nd best team in playoffs. What I am getting into, Rockets are as much to blame for their self destruction ways and if they had better playoff coach who doesn’t think fatigue is just state of mind. Rockets fans were right thinking that rockets can beat warriors, especially with Curry not at his best but being undone by coach and selfish super star.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 5 hours ago

JMay, have to agree to disagree. Curry is not same, may be at 60-70%, understandably coming back from MCL grade 2 sprain and 53 days of layoff. He is getting there, may be after few more games. The point is that Rockets has an opening and they are to blame themselves for the loss. If you play to your potential and lose, different story but they didn’t play well yesterday., mostly because of their game plan and rotations.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 5 hours ago

Exactly.

Simmo
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Simmo
8 days 7 hours ago

+ several freakin’ thousand, JMay.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 10 hours ago

You are 100% wrong, LBJ never joined the team that defeated him. That’s weak.
LeBron led a bunch of no ones to the NBA finals. KD had Harden and Westbrook early and couldn’t do it. He was even one game away of beating the Warriors and choked.
Please don’t compare them.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 16 hours ago

He didn’t have a problem beating Wade. KD choked against the team he went to. Also the Celtics, Lakers, other top teams were not as far away talent wise as everyone is to the warriors. Second best player to a team with maybe the third best player, and two other allstars on a team that won 73 games is a totally different universe of taking the easy path. To say otherwise is completely and knowingly disingenuous since you would have to utterly ignore all context surrounding the move.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 10 hours ago

Exactly.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
8 days 19 hours ago

If the Cavs were to face the Warriors in the Finals this year, I’m pretty confident there would be a game where the Warriors shoot 103% from the field…

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
8 days 7 hours ago

lol, but Curry is not healthy enough for that to happen. This warriors team relying more on switch all defense than shooting.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 19 hours ago

Hehe probably.

Nate Smith
Admin
8 days 19 hours ago

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 19 hours ago

About the Cavs/Celtics series, what to me is not acceptable is the Cavs letting their offense dictate their defensive effort.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 20 hours ago

To be honest neither the Cavs or the Celtics stand a chance against the Rockets or Celtics.

Nate Smith
Admin
8 days 19 hours ago

Totally disagree. Just two different styles. Both teams play at a pace that complements the other.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 19 hours ago

Lol you will see when the time comes. Anyways as I suspected the Warriors are going to take the home court advantage right out of the Rockets hands in just the first game.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
8 days 20 hours ago

Yep. Barring injury that would be the logical view if considering in all the objective evidence.

JB225
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JB225
8 days 20 hours ago

They should sweep whoever comes out of the East.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
8 days 20 hours ago

I could see the cavs getting a game against the rockets.

JB225
Guest
JB225
8 days 20 hours ago

Maybe but I believe the Warriors will beat the Rockets in six.

JOHN B
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JOHN B
8 days 19 hours ago

Cinco para mi.

JB225
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JB225
8 days 10 hours ago

Like Barkley said, Warriors en 3 jajaja

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 20 hours ago

CP3 purposefully hits people in the nuts more than Draymond. He is such a dirty player.

GrumpyOldMan
Guest
GrumpyOldMan
8 days 20 hours ago

I didn’t get to watch the game yesterday but after seeing the score I was a little worried…But now having watched the game I’m not as anxious…The Cavs played about as bad on defense as they are capable of playing…On top of that they left 45 points on the court in the first half on shots they normally make which if they just hit 50% of those they’re only down 3 at the half…I really didn’t see anything special they did to stop LeBron…Seemed like he was sloppy with the ball but still made a lot of good plays that shots were missed on…and in the second half he began to settle for threes and wasn’t very aggressive due to the large deficit…Overall I think people in the media are way overreacting to this loss…

Simmo
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Simmo
8 days 21 hours ago

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
8 days 21 hours ago

In reply to….

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
8 days 21 hours ago

Whelp. Capela better be able to defend the death lineup.

Simmo
Guest
Simmo
8 days 21 hours ago

It’s all about Capela, really.

Arch Stanton
Member
Arch Stanton
9 days 2 hours ago

I decided to mow the lawn instead of watching this massacre.

Dan
Guest
Dan
9 days 3 hours ago

Fts is reporting that tt is likely to start, given the success he has had historically against Horford. Given this knowledge, the most logical question is : Why didn’t they consider this before Horford went off on 8/10 shooting and was totally dominant!!???

Jason
Guest
Jason
8 days 22 hours ago

Because Lue.

Stevens changed his lineup before Game 1 (inserting Morris for Baynes). Got a win.

Lue has to wait until we lose to switch things up.

Nate Smith
Admin
9 days 3 hours ago

Cuz Ty Lue is playing 29th dimensional chess, you rube.

Nate Smith
Admin
9 days 3 hours ago

Dan
Guest
Dan
9 days 3 hours ago

Yeah, and those same analytics suggested this before we got whooped.

Jwhodey
Guest
Jwhodey
9 days 4 hours ago

So…Larry Nance JR…

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
9 days 6 hours ago

Give credit where it is due, Brad Stevens had his team ready. Their young guys actually play like veterans including the superb rookie in Tatum.

Back at the start of the season, there was a debate here about how good Celts going to be after the make over. I was of opinion that Brad Stevens will keep this team as top defensive team and even though they will start rookie Tatum, Tatum has more like veterans game and will do fine in playoffs.

That said, Celts don’t think have enough to win a 7 game series. I would bet everything that Lebron will not have another bad game. Besides, Celts only won at home and Cavs only need to steal one on road.

JRL
Guest
JRL
9 days 5 hours ago

You’re right. The Cavs were caught sleeping from the get go. Hoping tomorrow is different.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
9 days 4 hours ago

Very similar to how they started last year’s finals. They woke up in 3rd game that series and we had good close games even if they still lost 2 of those 3.

Nate Smith
Admin
9 days 6 hours ago

RC Kim
Member
8 days 20 hours ago

In fairness it’s not like Cleveland’s process “luck into multiple #1s and then have LeBron decide to forgive Sans Serif Dan and rejoin the team just because he’s a loyal NE Ohio guy” is a sustainable blueprint for franchise building.

Treize Khushrenada
Guest
Treize Khushrenada
9 days 6 hours ago

I think if Wade had been available to start the fourth quarter, then Boston doesn’t go on quite such a dramatic run, the starters stay in, and the “story” is how scared the Celtics should be that the Cavs almost won the game.

Unfortunately, Wade seems to prefer to co-pilot the Millennium Falcon rather than play in a Conference Finals. In that case, I agree with those who dislike the Clarkson-Hood-James-Green-Thompson lineup. At least one of Korver, Smith, and Love needs to be on the floor at all times.

JRL
Guest
JRL
9 days 5 hours ago

Ahhh what?
We don’t really need Wade. We need Lue to play his best rotations.

Joeyb
Guest
Joeyb
9 days 7 hours ago

Sticking with cavs in four.

Raoul
Guest
Raoul
9 days 2 hours ago

In rare agreement with Joeyb, ME TOO!

RC Kim
Member
9 days 8 hours ago
One thing I find annoying is this constant media narrative asking whether it is time for the Cavs to “panic” any time something not great happens. Look, if they win they win, if they lose they lose, but I don’t find it professional or constructive for sports journalists and blog boys to constantly be asking whether the Cavs are “panicking”. It strikes me as just trolling the Cavs and their fans. The Thunder got upset by the Jazz, nobody made a national story about whether the Thunder were panicking. When Boston went 7 against the Bucks nobody accused Stevens of getting the yips or the young Celtics of panicking. Nobody accused the Raptors of — OK, that’s not a good example but they were the masters of panic so that was entirely fair. Sometimes teams lose, it doesn’t mean they failed themselves or their fans any more than any other team, unless they truly just roll over and die facing an inferior team or something like that. No LeBron team has ever really done that, they are not doing that now and I wish this storyline wouldn’t be trotted out every time the Cavs lose one ugly game in the… Read more »
JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
9 days 8 hours ago

They need a narrative and the wcf hadn’t started. Expect if the rockets get obliterated in game one (and I think they will) it will be just as big or bigger of a story because they are supposed to be competitive. I don’t think they will be.

I think the cavs criticism is a product of their own success. They are supposed to make the finals against a weak east as they have always done. So any chink in the armor is a story.

If the warriors lost to the rockets in the wcf that will be a bigger story since they aren’t supposed to lose at all for like the next 3-4 years with that kind of talent.

Ben Werth
Editor
9 days 8 hours ago

Cavs in 6 still.

I didn’t see anything in this game that leads me to believe the Celtics can actually stop the Cavs’ offense. They missed a ton of open shots early, LeBron was sloppy with his ball-handling and straight tossed the ball to Boston’s youngsters at times.

Had they connected on some early threes, the game is different.

That being said, Lue cannot toss out a lineup of Clarkson, Hood, Bron, Green, and TT and expect a better result than we have already seen in these playoffs. That lineup is garbage, will remain garbage, and is a waste of LeBron’s energy. Hood, Clarkson, and Green are a defensive juggernaut of sucktitude. You can occasionally get away with one guy’s mistakes. When all three are on the floor, it’s idiocy.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
9 days 6 hours ago

+1. For Celtics to win, Lebron has to repeat this performance 3 more tiimes, not happening.

RC Kim
Member
9 days 8 hours ago
I didn’t see anything to suggest that the Cavs couldn’t do better on offense, but the Celtics also pretty much scored at will against the Cavs and did a good job controlling tempo. Cavs had I believe the 3rd best offensive rating after ASB but they were also something like 21st or 22nd defensive rating team and their offensive/defensive plus-minus was around +3 which is not bad, but certainly nothing like elite. It’s the points differential you would expect from a team that wins 45 games over a season. You still only get the ball every other time, and if the Celtics continue to slow it down and execute on both ends the way they did tonight, it’s going to be tough series for the Cavs even if they play better on the offensive end, which they undoubtedly will. Not to be Mr. Obvious but “better” and “+26 better” aren’t quite the same thing. As always Game 2 will tell us a lot more about where the Cavs are at. I do have to say that the fact that the Cavs basically had a week off and LeBron had to burn Game 1 figuring out what the Celtics wanted to… Read more »
Nate Smith
Admin
9 days 8 hours ago

I would 100% agree with you if not for Lue. He got depantsed Sunday. Lebron has to Overcome the Celtics’ and Lue’s baffling preference for Clarkson and Green.

Ben Werth
Editor
9 days 8 hours ago

I think I might lean towards starting Tristan in this series. Make them guard big, put Horford out of his comfort zone, and get one of their shooters off the floor. I’m not sure if I would rather take J.R. or Kyle out for Tristan. I’d lean towards bringing Kyle off the bench. This isn’t a lineup to take down the Warriors, but Lue needs to match Horford with Tristan as much as possible.

Bringing Kyle off the bench makes the Celtics second unit less physical. They can’t matchup Baynes with Love and Kyle on the floor during the brief time LeBron would rest. I would hand Clarkson’s minutes directly to Cedi and trust Cedi to pass the ball on time and target to the Kyle/Kevin dance during those minutes that LeBron rests. Cedi has that skill-set.

warriorsfan
Guest
warriorsfan
9 days 2 hours ago

If TT is starting, I think Stevens will start Baynes.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
9 days 8 hours ago

Horford won’t guard TT though. Expect Baynes would quickly be inserted to shut down TT o boards. It would like you said take out Morris in all likelihood. Expect against TT the Celtics would employ their Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Horford, Baynes lineup. Would likely allow for some easy iso drives if Baynes gets switched onto LBJ though. Celtics help and recover well though.

Ben Werth
Editor
9 days 7 hours ago

By starting TT, you force Tatum or Brown to check LeBron.

Horford would still check Love, but TT would check Horford freeing Love from primary PnR defense. I want TT in Horford’s head.

The game is then put more into Rozier’ s hands. Fine with me, despite how surprisingly effective he has been.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
9 days 8 hours ago

Might need to start TT, but I suppose that will get Boston to start Baynes.

JRL
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JRL
9 days 8 hours ago

I would rather see Baynes than Brown out there.

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
9 days 8 hours ago

I expect Morris would be the guy who sits. Brown can give a decent effort against James and make him work a bit more than Morris on the other end. I don’t know if he would be as solid defensively on James though.

MikeO
Guest
MikeO
9 days 8 hours ago

Yes, Baynes in place of Morris.

Leo
Guest
Leo
9 days 9 hours ago

the Celtics played a great game on both ends, but also thought things were going extremely well for them playing at home, more of a ‘home cooking’ type of game, where all their guys were hitting shots….playoff games aren’t consistent and things change game to game, Cavs will figure something out and possibly switch up rotations and find a win, this Celtics team isn’t that much better. Their 2nd and 3rd quarters weren’t very good, and the latter quarter the Cavs started to bite back at deficit. Cavs have to come out strong to start the game against these young teams, and set the tone themselves. While playoff rotations are short, Id prefer Lue give CEdi and Calderon 5-7 minutes with energy and smarts even if Hood/Clarkson play 5 min apiece as well.
In the end things went too well for Celtics and too ugly for Cavs…I expect a closer game and Cavs getting the win as series switches venues.

blip
Guest
blip
9 days 9 hours ago

The Celtics keep surprising me, even though it should be clear by now that they present the Cavs with a serious challenge. Still don’t think they have enough to beat the Cavs, but I can see this going 7 games. Beginning with next year, I think the Celtics might have the start of a potential dynasty once they Gordon and Kyrie are back in action (plus perhaps another good draft pick). Maybe . . .

JOHN B
Guest
JOHN B
9 days 8 hours ago

On paper. Will be interesting to see how their two stars, one of which is crazy ball dominant are integrated back into an offense that is very balanced. Hayward fits great. Kyrie, maybe not as much, but they need a guy that can do what he does in the playoffs. They also will take a big hit defensively with those two instead of Rozier and Brown, or Rozier and Tatum in the starters.

blip
Guest
blip
9 days 8 hours ago

Good points. Fit will be key.

JRL
Guest
JRL
9 days 9 hours ago

Perfectly done “not a recap”. No need to extend yourself in reviewing such a crap performance.

LeBron’s basketball intelligence/memory is uncanny (I think you meant tactician), and he will need to sit down with Lue/coaches and come up with a better plan for tomorrow. The rotations by Lue were bad, and the 4th quarter intro lineup of JC, Hood, Green, TT and LeBron was a head scratcher.

I think it’s time for JC to find a nice comfy cushion and use it as he should be glued to the bench. I don’t think he has the intelligence to make him a good/solid basketball player. Specially during the ECF.

We have 3 players – JC, Hood and Green – who’s mentality is to shoot the ball the moment it touches their hand. Unfortunately only Green can be counted on – which is remarkable in and of itself.

Rambling now – Lue needs to be fired. Calderón needs to see JC’s minutes. Cedi needs to go in over Hood.

What a horrible first game…

topgun
Guest
topgun
9 days 9 hours ago

an outlier? maybe. but too many don’t give Celtics credit – they are 100% better team w/ 200% better coaching. I expect Celtics to win the series unless Bron just shows up every game w/ 40+ pts w/ 10+ assists and at least 2 other players get in double digits .. Celtics offense can be stopped if Cavs play tough 48 min. But when do they do that?
Lue consistently gets outcoached and out prepared by opposing coach. sad but true. having Green, TT, Hood, Bron out there on the 4th was a killer. prob would have lost any way but going from down 14 to down 21 in first 2 min was due to horrible lineup – something Lue does consistently for some reason. Not sure why all those assistants or GM can’t talk Lue out of those horrendous decisions.

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