Podcap: Cleveland 132, Toronto 129 (or, Dinosaurs are Pets)
2018-03-22https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-164-dinosaurs-are-pets
It was a raucous win for the Cavs, who overcame 79-64 halftime deficit to defeat the Toronto Raptors. LeBron James set some records on the way, becoming the only player with 35 points, 15 dimes, and no turnovers. The Cavs turned on the scoring and the defense in the second to edge the Raps. The Cavs shot 60% from the field and an insane 63% from three. Kevin Love dropped a double double (23 and 12) including a back breaking three to seal the game. George Hill went 10-11 and managed to shake his doldrums too.
Nate Smith, David Wood, EvilGenius, and Tom Pestak all crammed into the podcast booth to break this one down. We also talked about the Cavs coaching issues (hint, we all seem to like Larry Drew at the helm over Tyron Lue), and what Kevin Love means to this team. We looked at Zizic, George Hill, and Jose Calderon and how their unexpected contributions are changing the team.
We took this game as a playoff preview, and also discussed how the East playoff race will shape up (a lot depends on Kyrie’s knee), and who we’d like to see in the first round of the playoffs. We also had fun at the expense of our favorite Boston twitterer, Sill Bimmons.
We even looked at how the 2018 and 2019 free agency periods will shape up. We also touched on Jordan Clarkson’s fantastic quote about dinosaurs being pets for giants…
Finally we took a deep dive on a popular radio topic: the top 5 Cleveland athletes of the last 20 years. It was an exciting discussion of sports, culture, history, and hot takes. There were a lot of surprises, heated discussion, and laughs.
You can listen above, on Sound Cloud, Apple Podcasts or Google Play.
There was another Cleveland team that won 2016 American League Hockey championship. And yet most don’t know any of the players.
A great listen. Thanks for putting together. I had to stop at the Josh Gordon part. I just… can’t go there without anger . Him and Lebron are thousands of miles apart in comparisons. But yeah it’s just talk for fun.
Great pod and think a group pod works best….if i can throw my few cents in there…didn’t realize when EG sorta admitted his age to David Wood, I was surprised by the age….EG sounds younger haha…Tom Pestak has hilarious laugh even when I don’t know why he’s cracking up
Top 5 Cleveland athletes
1.Lebron
2. Jim Thome
3. Joe Thomas
4. Bernie Kosar
5. Stipe Miocic
GO CAVS!!
I also look way younger than you’d expect… lol
Why is it we think domestic abuse is a problem specific to NFL players? There is zero evidence it is any more prevalent among NFL players than people who aren’t in the nfl… it’s actually weird to compare it to drug issues…which ARE statistically a huge issue among professional athletes. I’m not even against pot being legal/useful for the type of pain NFL players consistently report. But domestic violence isn’t a real issue.
Maybe we get rid of Michael grant?
I don’t think the issue has to do with the statistical ratio of abuse in the NFL versus society but the difference in how drug cases versus how abuse cases have been handled. Do marijuana violations deserve the same or worse punishment as domestic assault?
No, of course not. But the NFL interfering with due process based on a public perception of that issue being more prevalent than it really is does cause some concern, the same way mob rule in sexual misconduct allegations interferes with due process in greater society. Why even bring the two up for comparison when the NFL has rules about drug use and performs the testing themselves, but a charge of domestic violence isn’t brought by or tried by the NFL? Josh Gordan broke a rule. Ezekiel Elliott was never convicted of an offense in court as far as I… Read more »
Fair points. Then again, at this point, a lot of abuse cases, sexual harassment, sexual assault cases will never even make it to trial for a huge variety of complex and occasionally difficult to digest reasons. As far as Elliot, supposedly the NFL investigated the situation for an entire year on their own, despite the lack or unwillingness from prosecutors for a criminal trial. Apparently they found something they didn’t like. Do they have the right to investigate? I would say if they had the right to drug test, then they probably have the right to do their own investigation… Read more »
Great tournament Night.
Really was. I loved Kentucky going down, since they were going to go to the Final Four almost definitely if they had won this one, since the region had so many upsets. I am intrigued by Fla St. and Michigan next round.
They drank the poison…
Love Babylon Berlin!!
Busy day. I’ll check the pod tomorrow afternoon.
Fun, fun pod — and I listened to EVERY MINUTE. By now I’ve pretty much forgotten the first part… I hate Mark Jackson as an announcer so much. Give me Doris and JVG. Hubie needs to retire and Jackson should please get a coaching gig. I enjoyed the Josh Gordon discussion. I do think the NFL is hypocritical and racist in policing weed so strongly and giving a pass to prescription drug abuse and alcohol abuse. Especially given that the game itself is so punishing. That said, of course Gordon is hard to credit as a top 5/10 given his… Read more »
Delly, Z, Andy, Omar, and Phil Dawson
PHIL! Good one Nate!
Honorable mention: boobie
ilysova/ bellinelli–great pick ups by the sixers —–they are going to be a tough out in the playoffs
If the Pistons lose to the Rockets tonight… the Cavs are officially in the playoffs…
Of course, CP3 not playing… and The Golden Turd having one of his worst nights as a pro… 1-9, 0-6 from three for 8 points halfway through the third quarter… tied at 62…
Whew! Welp, time for a fireworks GIF?
Hornets going to win 140-77 over Memphis. I repeat, HORNETS. That’s disgraceful.
Didn’t the Hornets just play last night?
Oh, and without D12 since he was suspended a game for picking up another tech last night…
Kemba with 46… 10-14 on threes… yowza!
Jeremy Lamb was a cool +51…
Memphis are playing for lottery pick, don’t know what charlotte is playing for.
Top 5 CLE in last 20:
1) LeBron James
2) Corey Kluber
3) Joe Thomas
4) Omar
5) Lofton
Honorable mention: Thome, Love, Kyrie, Lindor, C.C. Manny was juiced.
Manny was still a great natural hitter before he balooned up. Also everyone was probably juicing back then. But glad the mlb was forced to crack down on it though I am sure it still happens a fair amount.
Manny was only juiced towards the end…
phil and bobby—hope/ pray you are right about Gordon—-if so it is like having -3 of the top 5 picks this draft
Would you guys give up drinking beer/alcohol for 7-10 years in order to play in the NFL? Any cigarette smokers think they could kick the habit to play in the NFL? Caffeine? Pain medication? Other “vices”?
For me I wouldn’t for the NFL. Nba probably. Think the NFL is about as unhealthy long term as a lot of that stuff (except for smoking), depending on how long someone plays.
Missed the game,
Seems like as close as it can be.
normal human: looks at score, sees 3 point game, realizes it was close a close game
dean oliver: analyses 50 charts and 20 different statistical categories, realizes it was a close game
Also, David was dead on about Hubie — he wouldn’t be as annoying, but he absolutely never.stops.talking. Never. It’s just a nonstop stream of consciousness blather for four quarters…
David was hilarious this pod.
Josh Gordon can get mentioned solely for the back to back 261 yards/237 yards in back to back weeks in 2013. That is a 2 game record in the NFL (not to mention he sandwiched those games with a 127 yard and 150 yard performance. Led the league in receiving playing 14 games. Now he is a ridiculous athlete who looks like he could bench press the moon. I hope he holds up and is able to truly be mentioned with the others in the top 5.
He’s only 26 (turning 27 next month), and he’s a young 26 from having missed nearly four seasons’ worth of physical pounding. So theoretically, he could have several prime seasons left. Buuut….
so my top 5 was:
LeBron
Joe Thomas
Omar
Big Z
Josh Cribbs
(Hon Mention): Kenny Lofton
Mine was:
1) LeBron
2) Joe Thomas
3) Manny Ramirez
4) Corey Kluber
5) tie Omar & Lindor
Honorable Mention: Josh Gordon (cuz he’s ripped as hell and could have been one of the great WRs ever if not for his off the field issues).
This would be easier to just pick the 2-10 best Cleveland athletes of the last 21 years in no particular order. I’d probably have:
Thomas
Vizquel
Illgauskas
Cribbs
Ramirez
Thome
Kluber
Lofton
Hafner
Irving
crap that’s 11. I guess I’ll have to leave Kyrie off…
It is tough when you confine it to 20 years because a lot of that 90s indians team was gone shortly after 98. Vizquel and Thome I think we’re the only guys there for more than a couple years after 98. Does the top mean the best, most impactful, or most popular/favorite? For me, I would base it around the most impactful and most popular. My list would be: 1 LBJ 2 Joe T 3 Big Z (for tenure and what he was to the franchise) 4 Omar (because he was here the longest out of the 90s indians) 5… Read more »
Thinking on it last night, Josh Gordon is a LeBron level athlete.
“Josh Gordon has overcome some stuff” – David Wood.
That was great. Who was it that compared what was said about Joe Thomas vs. “Josh Gordon… overcame some stuff”
that was Nate
How has this thread not reached 1000 comments debating Josh Gordon. Did no one make it to the end of the pod?
I hate the NFL specifically because of the pressure to solve to the drug issues versus the other issues that are so much worse, domestic abuse, mental health, etc. I don’t care what your politics are, weed should not be a schedule one narcotic. I don’t smoke myself, but I have no issue with those that do, since it is far less destructive than alcohol. So yeah Josh Gordon did some dumb things, but the way the NFL treats and puts pressure on the players union to deal with those marijuana related issues versus issues that are far worse such… Read more »
Also, you seem to be asking for someone to stir the pot, so there it is. Hehe.
It’s h th e foreshadowing of the NFL’s coming irrelevancy.
Meh. It is a bball blog and the browns’ incompetence has probably killed a fair amount of nfl fandom in Cleveland compared to what it was. I think the NFL is so saturated in American culture that, for better or worse, it is probably not going to fade in popularity as quickly as people think.
So what exactly is going on with Kawhi and the Spurs? Is it a Kyrie type of thing where he doesn’t want to play for the team anymore?
Hard to tell what exactly is going on. I believe Kawhi said that he wanted to end his career in SA. I thought that happened just after the story went out about Kawhi wanting out. Could be wrong though.
He did say that. No idea why he’s not playing yet, maybe his personal specialist hasn’t cleared him yet…weird situation…
Pop says he has not been medically cleared to play.
He has been by the Spurs staff. He hasn’t by a few of the outside specialists he has sought second opinions from. Though I think a couple others have.
There have been rumors of discord, but I think mostly around the injury. Who knows though? Guy rarely says much regarding anything except about a particlar game. It is clear Pop and the rest of the team are frusrtated but they aren’t pushing him to come back publicly.
All I know is that I’m gonna lose myself if tt gets minutes, and jr is pathetic , when everyone is healthy I want korver taking every minute away from jr, and tt And jr get no minutes , btw green is amazing when he plays within his game , but when he doesn’t he’s almost in the same league as shump
Yup, I’m 100% with you in this one. My only hope is that Lue being away from the games gives him a different perspective. “Stepping back” and taking a better look at the situation. That, plus Drew having a sit-down with him (and the rest of the coaching staff) and bringing forth the same points we have been making.
I hope Lue gets better, just not in time to be a factor on the playoffs (finals).
I was wrong in the Pod about LeBron’s NBA record with the 17 assists and 0 turnovers (that’s been done more than a few times), but as Nate said in the intro, it’s the highest scoring (35 points) version of that stat…
Haven’t gotten all the way through yet, so maybe you guys mentioned it later, but part of what “got into G Hill” was that he was playing shooting guard. It doesn’t seem like a big thing on the surface considering how interchangeable the guard positions are these days, but Hill clearly took a different mentality. He was not asked to spot up as much as cut and move. His early lane slices were old school shooting guard plays.
This is a great point Ben… I had originally thought of it the other way around with Jose installed at shooting guard since he was shooting it well, but this makes a lot of sense…
Was going to make that point but the show got away from me. Still there isn’t anything he is doing from the two there that he couldn’t do from the one
La Flama Marrón played great last night. José is shooting incredibly well now that he’s been given the chance. What do you guys think will happen to his minutes once Lue comes back?
It’s a good question. Honestly, I would play him over Clarkson. I don’t trust Jordan in any real situation. But Lue will probably mothball Jose like he does any guy whom he thinks he could beat one on one.
I think Jordan needs to step back and do the same as Green, play within your abilities. Don’t try to show off and learn from José, meaning okay to your potential. Unfortunately he’s still a bit young and is probably trying too hard in order to get more minutes.
As far as Lue, I can’t stand him as a coach. I just see the minutes for José, Zz and Cedi(once he’s back) plummeting. I hope I’m wrong but history has told us differently.
Okay = play
Halfway through the podcast – great conversation going on. You guys definitely come up with some funny sh!t.
Loved David’s response to Nate on Jeff Green dating anyone’s daughter. But then we may have encouraged him to speak his mind so much we all got taken back to the wood shop
Top five CLE athletes in the last 20 years:
1. LeBron James
2. Joe Thomas
3. Omar Vizquel
4. Corey Kluber
5. C.C. Sabathia
Honorable Mentions go to:
Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Sandy Alomar, and Francisco Lindor
I concur.
Forgot about cc.
Eh… CC got fat…
Jim Thome should be mentioned.
And actually, for all of that, Manny’s 99 season was an all timer. I know he left, but he was the best hitter in the bigs for a couple years there.
You aren’t wrong. It’s hard to pick.
Lol, you can’t handle the truth man
Oh wait… I was wrong… Paul Pierce chimes in… LOL
He just can’t stop himself. Lake Speed? Is this a Lakers fan who finally realized Bron is never going to go to LA?
You do you, brave truth teller…
When are you people going to realize that most SG/SFs in the NBA could post LeBron Like numbers too if they chased all the good PGs out of town, Played 40mins per game, and took every inbounds and took it up the court every time. Come on man is this that hard to understand
Bill Simmons chimes in… LOL
Hahahhaahaa.
Bill Simmons doing the Durant thing and posting under difference aliases. LoL
Haha, awesome!
This is my favorite post ever.
This is the best post, and the worst take I’ve ever seen.
-He played with Irving (MVP discussion PG) and put up basically the same numbers last year
-Nobody else CAN play 40 minutes a game 15 years in the league and put up those numbers or others would have
-He’s a point forward – he should normally take the ball up the court.
Here’s your participation ribbon. Thanks for playing. Next stop is yours
Man, I’ve seen better trolls from middle school kids.
A+ for comedy. You should come around more often. Though if you are being serious I would feel somewhat guilty for laughing because I would feel bad for making fun of a delusional person.
nate, I actually approve of one deadspin article: https://deadspin.com/what-the-hell-are-we-going-to-do-when-lebron-james-reti-1823983817
This is a great read…
Even the comments on it are good — people appreciating what they’ve got before it’s gone.
Oh, so we’re allowed to post deadspin articles now?
if they read anything like that, yeah. So maybe in 8 years another needle will be found in that haystack of utter crap.
Great article, thanks for posting.
I look at all round play of Lebron and marvels, stats don’t do justice to Lebron the same way they overrate Westbrook. Lebron is #2 best player of all time behind Air but I can see myself thinking back and change my opinion to Lebron as #1 over all time. I mean, what if Lebron had a Scottie Pippen level player to play Robin to him throughout his career and had an organization that added talent around Lebron like Jordan got.
I think stats do do him justice when you look at his advanced stats like PER, BPM, O Rating, etc compared to Jordan and other greats. I think you are right that people take that production for granted these days despite no one really ever producing the same over such a period. Ironically, I think it is because of that consistency in producing mind boggling numbers that people can’t step back and marvel at his video game like numbers. Oh ‘posting another year of 28-29 PER while literally coasting through a month or two, meh, that is just what he… Read more »
But if you consider that MJ got gifts from the refs that would make Hardin blush, whereas LeBron never even gets a fair shake, that changes the discussion on when LeBron passes Jordan. A couple of years ago in my book.
Btw I think that Nurkic dunk is LeBron’s greatest regular season dunk ever, primarily because it was literally over, not through, not beside, but over a 7 footer, chest to chest. Incredible because I didn’t think he had that in him anymore.
5 minutes 22 seconds ago
KLove has gone from maybe overrated to definitely underrated in the last 5 years. Forget about this scoring for a second, it is his defensive rebounding and team defense that transforms this team. We also struggled a lot last year when Love was out, mainly because of the lack of rebounding and D in our frontcourt. We all knew that he could score and pass – it’s his defensive impact that’s been the big surprise in the KLove experience.
KLove has gone from maybe overrated to definitely underrated in the last 5 years. Forget about this scoring for a second, it is his defensive rebounding and team defense that transforms this team. We also struggled a lot last year when Love was out, mainly because of the lack of rebounding and D in our frontcourt. We all knew that he could score and pass – it’s his defensive impact that’s been the big surprise in the KLove experience.
RAPTORS WILL BE A TOUGH OUT COME PLAYOFFS –NO DOUBT —-BUT WE DO HAVE LEBRON AND MOST IMPORTANT / HOPING EVERYONE IS HEALTHY—–YES I DO BELIEVE THR TRIO OF LEBRON / LOVE / LNJ COULD BE SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL —-MORE REASON NOT TO RUSH LNJ BACK / MAKE SURE HE IS HEALTHY —-simmo sorry again about the caps—I get carried away at times ——you know ” old dog –new tricks ” type of thing
No problem, I’ve got my earplugs in ;)
agree simo ( on klove )—so happy for him –all the struggles he has been thru on / off the ct since he has been a cavs —-WE ALL LOVE–KLOVE
Good win but not great! Still worried about Toronto in the playoffs. We shot 63% from three with George and Calderon shooting really well and we only won by three. We aren’t going to play that well every game. Glad we won but still worried.
I would agree if Cavs had a full roster. No Korver, LNJ, Cedi….feel that the team will only get better as more bodies become available. Remember that the team played pretty well against Portland during a long road trip. There will be no relaxing at this point of the season. While technically the Raptors don’t have to find a way to win at the Q to beat Cavs in the playoffs, I think they have to be worried about LBJ coming to their stadium and stealing one with the way he is playing. I’m also really excited about Larry Nance… Read more »
You just saw peak Raptors (aside from maybe CJ Miles). As Simmo points out, the Cavs were missing 5 rotation players. And, as great as LeBron was, we all know he’s got even another gear he can go to if needed, since in the playoffs he’s not going to play just one half of defense… People might use the fatigue argument (second night of back to back or third game in four nights) for Toronto, but the fact is that DeRozan didn’t play the night before in Orlando, so he was rested… and he still couldn’t lead his team in… Read more »
They will definitely be more of a challenge this year, especially with home court. I could see it going 7 but I think the Cavs pull it out if fully healthy.
fun game to watch/ especially since the outcome was a cavs “w”—going forward —and especially come playoff time —with all the players showing that they can contribute / give valuable minutes —-there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON when a player is in the game NOT to give 100 % ( because he wants to rest / save himself )–if that happens the players should be yanked immediately —-think for that reason we will see more of the defensive effort that we saw in the 2nd half of last nights game ——anybody here think we can WIN OUT the rest of the… Read more »
He’s only been back two games, but something I’ve noticed about KLove: when he’s lining up for a 3pt shot and a hard closeout is coming, he’s been shooting rather than bailing & passing.
Dwight Howard’s 30-30 is the 2nd since 1982 (Kevin Love had 31-31 in 2010 for MIN).
Wilt Chamberlain had 124 30-30 games.
I remember being deathly scared of Howard back in his Orlando days.
The “Woodshop is opened” episode. Great listen from start to finish.
This was a great listen guys. David Wood was especially entertaining, both for his smackdown style and youthful naivety. I was shocked no one brought up Anderson Varajao as an honorable mention for being an amazing Cavalier and then for helping rank the warriors in the finals to give us our first title.
I thought about him.
Too many injuries… he’d be in my top 5 of haircuts tho…
I will listen soon, but why is Bill Simmons so frightened? If the Cavs suck so badly, he has nothing to worry about.
Hee Hee. Its discussed in the pod.
This is the best.
Wow, that is amazing!