PodCap: Cavs 112, Pistons 90 (or, Dead or Alive?)
2018-03-06https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-163-dead-or-alive
No, we don’t reference RoboCop in this PodCap, but he was from New Detroit… and the Cavs did clean up the Pistons the way Murphy shut down crime in that city… and Larry Nance Jr. did play like a cyborg for most of his first start at Center… and Tom, Nate and EG did spend an inordinate amount of time at the end of this long and winding pod playing the Dead or Alive? guessing game…
In any event, tune in to hear all about how the Cavs looked very much alive in their first game with LBJ and LNJ wreaking havoc in the starting lineup together… and alternately how Tristan Thompson’s career as a starter might very well about to be dead. We also cover which buyout candidates are still alive for the Cavs, and how dead tired the team might be after their long upcoming road trip. Plus, you can learn the correct way to spell Dwayne/Dewayne/Duane. And, even though (as mentioned) there is no spirited discourse on RoboCop… there is plenty of analytical gerrymandering about other movies that populated Sunday night’s Oscars.
As always, you can listen above, on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts or Google Play.
Joe Vardon made quite a mistake. Love said his departure from the OKC game was a typical illness, and not a panic attack. Vardon was the only reporter to say it was a panic attack. This terrible reporting is how not to win friends and influence people. Vardon always seems to be looking for any possible controversial angle to a story. You may know his job before the Cavs was as a political reporter, and perhaps that beat is the right one for him.
You can see most of the Cavs who have been here a while bristle when talking to him. He is really not well liked
I’ve often said of both vardon and fedor, “whose kid is he?” It’s the only explanation for the job.
You’re right the City of Los Angeles, Cleveland nor Philly can compete with you. Fine, you an keep I.T.!
Nothing says we love you like being on a lawyer’s advertisement.
Amazing how Cavs front office enabled Wade to become such a central figure in the aftermath of the Parklands shooting
Huh? This seems a little tone deaf.
Maybe “serendipitous” not “amazing” but DWade has been a major figure of support and healing for some of the kids and families through this process. This was enabled by the Cavs front office seeking to do right by Wade by sending him back. It’s a nice ray of light in a dark story and Koby deserves some credit for facilitating.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/07/sport/dwyane-wade-visits-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high/index.html
Yeah, I don’t think the Cavs front office has anything to do with it. Wade has been involved in social issues like these, for a few years now. I don’t think him rejoining the Heat makes much of a difference, as he already was a central part of the Florida community.
You’re missing my point. One of the victims had been super excited that Wade was back in Miami so much so that his parents asked him to be buried in a Wade jersey. Largely because of this Wade has gotten quite involved in the support in a way he wouldn’t have been had he not been sent back to Miami. If he weren’t on the Heat he wouldn’t be doing school visits, etc right now.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/04/us/dwyane-wade-joaquin-oliver-family-trnd/index.html
great article —AMICO HOOPS –on his battle with depression / anxiety—-anyone ( like myself ) can appreciate / understand the CHALLENGES —–never want to travel on that path again but also understand the GROWTH AS A PERSON during that period —-thank you Sam for sharing !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ8X-8zQczI
Smokin’ Joe! How about that!
I’m betting EG ordered a Smokin’ Joe jersey just based on this clip…
I can see it now… next up the Orlando Magic put up a banner:
“COME SAVE US LEBRON, OUR FANS HAVE ABANDONED US, PLUS WE HAVE DISNEY” #ORLEBRON
Not lately.
Billy Simmons:
Anyone that thinks the Cavs are not vastly better due to the trade is a moron.
Without Love, ant evaluation is silly. But of couse we are better.
The only pieces that played for us were IT, Rose, and Frye. And Lue took Channing out of the rotation.
Of course we are better.
This dude clearly doesn’t pay attention to the Cavs. Lue lucks into good lineups through injury…neither a strategist or a tactician.
Ur absolutely right , lue is a disaster decision maker and also lacks the balls to make any rotation changes when ppl r healthy
Isn’t it time for a deep dive into where Kyrie will be signing as a free agent, Billy?
In addition to the new additions, getting rid of IT and wade made us better. End of story. How much remains to be seen and will depend on Lue.
So this was inspired by a friendly nudge from Ty Lue’s agent? It reads like lazy propoganda.
Dubs dis beat the Nets soundly in the end.
Lets go Hawks, Mavs, Magic, & Kings.
The TT talk seems frivolous. We all KNEW he was limited on offense and that his defense has more to do with mobility than verticality. He has been injured for about a 9 month period. He’s never been an elite jumper, and now he also is a below average lateral mover. He will either get back to himself and be able to move better than most big men, thus rediscovering his rebound prowess, or he will continue his overweight and injured play and will shortly be out of the league.
Nets up 5 on Dubs at half. Maybe they lose on purpose to spite us. I hate GSW.
I was thinking the same thing. Is that a 10 point swing in the last few seconds of the half?
I don’t think they will lose this game, but I wouldn’t put spite past them. I think it’s pretty obviously DGAS about the regular season March game. But I bet they still hit enough shots to win.
On Lue’s moves. I think Hood & JR both starting paves the way for a direct comparison. Assuming Nance wins the starting C spot, that leaves the SG spot open once Love returns. Whomever performs best gets it. It also allows Lue to move TT & JR into lesser roles without appearing disloyal. Both can still help us, but the role needs to be smaller. Hope he also plays Calderon & Zizic some while TT is out. Current: Hill, JR, Hood, Bron, Nance. Main bench: Clarkson, Osman, Korver, Green Situational: Calderon, Zizic Mop up: Holland, Pertantes Full strength: Starters: Hill,… Read more »
Nets are closing in on Dubs at Halftime.
Mavs gonna beat the Nuggets. Up 15 with 2 min left. Let that sink in.
Wins pending Nets at Dubs & assuming a Dubs win.
18 = Grizz
19 = Suns
20 = Hawks, Mavs, Nets, Magic, Kings
21 = Bulls
Tomorrow:
Grizz at Bulls (someone wins)
Pels (b2b) at Kings
Magic at Lakers
I feel good about the Nets pick chances tonight…
I should note, the Nets have 2 games left vs Chicago.
#sad
Some good news on the Nets pick.
1) NBA meets with Bulls over tanking. Lopez & Holiday (who had started every game but then mysteriously shut down) will play again as league warns Bulls over healthy scratches.
2) Nets at Dubs tonight.
3) Mavs with a 4th quarter lead vs Denver in Dallas.
People who are putting Bamba in their top players baffle me. It’s the same thing as the TT problem. You simply can’t play centers with no offensive skills anymore and there’s no guarantee he’ll develop any. There’s half a dozen guys every draft like this too some develop, some don’t. The guys who are like this who are good in the NBA weren’t high draft picks: Capella, Dedmon, Whiteside, DeAndre, Gobert, Vucevic, Adams… I’m terrified the Cavs are going to end up with Bamba.
Nonsense. Capella seems to be doing fine. DeAndre Jordan. The offensive genius of Zaza?
TTs problem is that he cannot finish at the rim, cannot protect the rim, and cannot guard on the perimeter.
Bamba can do all 3 better. Has unicorn potential on D and is a TT upgrade on D right now. And a better shooter.
Now, if you are a team that needs a 20 pt scorer, Bamba is not your guy.
The fact that Nate cannot see the potential is somewhat befuddling.
And he is a poor defensive rebounder.
And he has gotten fat.
Wonder if his contract allows him to be suspended until he gets into shape?
My point is that Capella, Jordan all the guys I named: not lottery picks. Every guy like this is a project. If TT taught us anything, it should be that you don’t waste high lottery picks on project big men, especially when your odds are good at getting one later in the draft. You know who else had unicorn defensive potential? Hasheem Thabeet.
Agree. All the potential high draft picks look like ‘sure things’ when thay are draft prospects — that’s why they are potential high draft prospects. I like Bamba as a prospect, but the ‘he’s already better than TT at x and y’ is gibberish — he hasn’t played a second in the NBA. He may be better down the line, the only thing he’s NBA better at than TT right now is shot blocking. And I think TT has mostly been mediocre at best this season.
+1. Okafor looked awesome too at #3 pick. Anyway, I have the same opinion, be careful with picking bigs. IF you look at the bigs who can board, shoot 3 and block shots – lot may compare them to Embiid, Anthony Davis but there are some role players in the league who do all those like Goran Dieng.
I think a dark horse pick should be Wendell Carter… the C at Duke. He’s better defensively than Bagley, and he has a post up game, can run the court, can make 3s, and has the strength to really defend bigs at the next level.
I AM RIGHT THERE WITH YOU NATE —–ALSO A DEPRESSION SURVIVOR !!!——NOW LIVING THE DREAM !!!
Congrats, man.
late on agreeing with you Evil ( and others here at ctb )—YES I WANT KLOVE TO RETIRE AS A CAV —-HE TYPIFIES AND EMBODIES THIS CITY –ON AND OFF THE COURT —-KLOVE STRONG !!!!!!—–
Besides Nance Jr, Ante Zz looked solid for the Cavs yesterday. 6 pts, 6 rebs, 2 ast and 1 blk in just 16 minutes really helped the Cavs yesterday.
I’ve asked for Zz to play meaningful minutes since the beginning of the season. Unfortunately Lue doesn’t see it.
Nance has been sensational. My concern though is that as an undersized center who goes hard all the time, he could be susceptible to fatigue and injury. I do believe that part of Tristan Thompson’s decline was because of him playing center full time and his previous obsession to keep his most consecutive games played record. I believe that Nance shouldn’t play more than 30 minutes a night now that the playoffs are around the corner. Come playoff time, those minutes can be extended a lot since there is a lot of rest in between games.
I’m willing to toss Thompson’s decline to injury. He has visibly put on weight since the calf injury, and he also was never the athlete Nance is. He also was never the highest bball iq guy on d. He worked his butt off and was in great shape for 4 years. He can get back there if he has a nice stretch of health. Problem is the game is different now than it was even 4 years ago. He can’t shoot and doesn’t get blocks. He must change or he is useless.
Unless he learns to shoot, his days in the NBA are over. Even DJ is skilled around the hoop, terrible shooter that he is. Even at Thompson’s best defensively, he has to be able to do more than just dunk lobs. He’s developed no moves, no shot, nothing. Teams just ignore him. He’s as one dimensional as IT. You can’t win with guys like that anymore.
Unless he suddenly learns to score, his new ceiling is a 10 minute a night guy to give your starter a breather. His floor is unemployed.
The most frustrating thing at work is having a leader that doesn’t recognize the strengths and weaknesses of individuals and how to maximize their potential with others…Lue frustrates me.
I don’t think I’ve ever been as frustrated with a Cleveland team head coach (Cavs, Browns, Tribe) as I have with Lue. The dude owns the keys to a Ferrari but drives it like it’s a f***ing Pinto!
Not always a big fan of Fedor, but this is a pretty good breakdown piece on how lethal LBJ and LNJ are when they share the floor…
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2018/03/why_lebron_james_and_larry_nan.html#incart_river_index
great to see LeBron tweet acknowledgement for klove speaking out/ giving him support !!
Honestly sometimes I feel Love has been so unfairly treated in Cleveland. Starting by of course Lebron, then of course by America’s idiotic media, and recently by other Cavs team mates. As much as I would love to see a front court rotation of Bamba, Nance and Love in the coming years, sometimes I think he should start a new somewhere else.
America’s media isn’t idiotic. Please don’t equate ESPN with journalism. I know it’s not necessarily an argument for this blog, but I think our constant criticizing of the free press is bad for us. We have some pretty incredible journalists and press here in this country, and we should trust them more. Many of them have been proven truth tellers for over a hundred years.
Good point, JoeyB.
I think Larry Nance Jr.’s ceiling is Draymond Green. He’s got the passing potential. He’ll need to extend his shooting range. His defense is still going to improve. He does it all.
Without all the irritating pomp and dirty plays.
He’s already a better mid-range shooter than Draymond, and he’s got more length on D… How many 22 and 15 games has Green had ever?
He’s definitely the better rebounder.
It’s funny, but the two times Dray had at least 22 and 15 were against the Cavs during the regular season in 2016 and in Game 7 when the Cavs won the chip…
The way to look at rebounding numbers is not individual but team rebounding rate otherwise we would think Westbrook is a better rebounder than Adams, if you go by rebounding average.
I would never say Westbrook is the better rebounder based solely by numbers. They play different positions. They are different things. I’m not going by just “numbers”. I didn’t say Nance has more rpg than Dray so he must be a better rebounder. I just genuinely believe Nance is the better rebounder…
Draymond leads champions in play making and defense, plus intangibles you can’t get in stats. I think you are underestimating Dray and might not be fair for Nance to be compared to Dray, they are different players. Nance can be a good player and can have very successful career, but Draymond may not be a good comp, IMO.
Okay, first of all, we are talking ceilings here. Second of all, Draymond benefits from those very same “champions”. If you think Dray is the same play-maker if you put him anywhere else, you’re delusional. Super easy to get assists when you get plays where you are going 2 against 1 or 3 against 1 and you have 2-3 generational shooters to pass to…
I’m not saying that Dray isn’t an incredible talent. All I’m saying is that if Nance puts in the work and the Cavs keep him in a good situation, his absolute ceiling is on a similar level to Draymond Green. IMO.
Similar level in terms of impact, possible albeit with different skill set. I do like Nance.
When you say “leads champions in playmaking” you’re saying Dray is a better playmaker than Curry?
Not really, just that Dray sets up more plays because he passes to Curry, not the other way around.
He’s never going to be the ball handler/ playmaker Bray is, nor I seriously doubt the volume three point shooter.
He doesn’t need to be the volume shooter that Dray is. Just 33-34%. Look at Green’s 3% for his career. He’s only ever had 1 season above 34%. Also, I disagree with you about his ball handling and play-making. He’s got excellent court vision. And his ball handling is underrated. Watch last night’s replay and you’ll see him bring the ball up in traffic. Plus, all of Green’s play-making mostly comes from the high post where only a dribble or two are necessary.
I’m not saying Nance sucks at those things, but Green is an elite playmaker for his position. I also doubt Nance ever sniffs 34% from three, especially not at volume. I don’t like him in the least, but you are underrating Bray.
I think you’ll be surprised at how good Nance can be from three if he and the team decide to have him develop that… his stroke from beyond the arc (in the few times he’s tried them) looks really solid…
Agree about his passing… IDK if it’s on the level of Dray, but he does other things even better. In terms of what he can mean as a defensive presence in the middle, then I think the comparison makes sense…
I sure would take Nancy Jr’s ceiling being a close of his father’s career. For me, that is the best and most obvious comparison given Jr’s frame, athleticism, defense and smarts. In 920 career games over 14 seasons, Nance averaged 17/8 with 2.6 assists, 2.2 blocks and 1 steal per game. And only 2 turnovers. Of course, three All Star Games. Plus like KLove, Nance is a class act which is no surprise given who raised him. A huge fountain and never, never a drain for many years with the Cavs I hope..
As I was re-educating myself on how to actually spell Dwyane Wade’s name (which phonetically makes zero sense, as this should be pronounced DUH-WHY-AN)… I realized that one third of the Miami Heat roster have W last names (Wade, Waiters, Walton, Whiteside, Winslow). That’s gotta be some kind of non-Williams kind of NBA record for W names on a team…
You could make a pretty good team from dudes currently in the NBA with W last names:
PG: Westbrook, Wall, Walker
SG: Wade, Waiters, Lou Williams
SF: Wiggins, Winslow, Warren
PF: Marvin Williams, Wright, West
C: Whiteside
Of course, for alliteration purposes, they’d all have to play for the Washington Wizards…
LOL you went all the way with this EG!!!
Did anyone see the video of LBJ Jr. the last two days? That kid is amazing! Sure hope he gets the chance to either suit up with or square off against his old man in 4-5 years… They could be the next father/son duo to score 20 in their debut…
This tweet was the source of the “statistical gerrymandering” by the Pacers.
That made me chuckle. Good find haha
Lol! I love the terminology!
hahahaha
leo agree with you ( on upcoming road trip ) if we can get 3 wins I will be happy —although 4 or more would be REAL NICE !!!——in my opinion they are all winnable games ——-looking at LAKERS / CAVS GAME –I would ambush I.T. every time he touches the ball —-hoping L-JR JUST CRUSHES IT AGAINST THEM—-Clarkson will have to control his emotions / energy
Gotta go undefeated to match my “last 26” games projections. The win streak started last night!
I think I said 21-5. We are 3-4.
We just need another 18 wins in 19 games stretch to pull it off. And TT is out, so we have a chance.
Right. Getting TT out was part of my secret plan!
thank you klove for sharing — you are a TRUE PROFESSIONAL AND PERSON !!—–missed the 2nd half —glad to see ANTE –ZZ– continue to get some more run / was calling to ” FREE ANTE ” all season —–post game interview with ty is CONCERNING –he was defensive / shying away from questions pertaining to L-JR starting / replacing T.T. (granted I guess the post game podium isn’t the best place to discuss that ) but if he even attempts to start T.T. OVER L-JR —there should be a mob at the ‘Q’ escorting him out of town —also if… Read more »
I’m bummed I forgot to mention Jose… he was great in limited minutes last night.
Indeed
Yep. He should play on certain nights. If Hill & JR can’t hit a shot. Or if Clarkson is not running the offense well. Or both.
8-12 minutes of smart PG play and good shooting is something we can live with.
KLove with an article on mental health & his panic attacks. Can’t help wondering if this was the subject of the Elephant in the Room ruckus.
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/kevin-love-everyone-is-going-through-something/
Wow, Kevin Love gets very personal. That was so well written and revealing. Makes me like him even more. We all remember his first challenging year with the Cavs when Love would answer questions staring at the floor, or not looking at the reporter. So uncomfortable for him. I am sure he struggled with going public with his struggles, but he is much bigger than 6’10” for doing so.
And Vardon reports that a panic attack was indeed the reason Love left the OKC game that resulted in the locker room blowout. Wade and IT really look like morons for questioning KLove’s absence now.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2018/03/kevin_love_discloses_his_battl.html#incart_river_index
Prayers up for his situation. Big props to him in facing this issue and looking forward to seing him succeed this part of his life. Gained much more respect and admiration for this guy. God bless Kevin Love.
So proud of him for speaking out about mental health. What an important topic that is all too often swept under the rug. I can only imagine the fear he had in releasing this article. Good for you, Kevin. Another reason to add to the list of why he is my favorite player. If you are struggling in silence, don’t. Reach out. Take one from Kev’s new playbook.
Agree with JMay.
And this type of event is likely to be vastly more common than we think.
I like to think of myself as a tough guy and calm in emergencies, and usually I am. But I have experienced a few events where panic took over from clear thinking, and it is easy to see that things could have gone way south real fast.
Regarding your last paragraph, Raoul, me too
This is a great article. Really proud of Kevin for writing this.
I hope Kevin Love retires a Cav… he does himself and the organization proud with how he handles himself
+1000. He is exactly the type of player I want on this team for the rest of forever. He has dealt with unfair pressure, scrutiny, straight BS, and now mental health in a professional and appropriate manner at all times. He’s hard working, talented, and seems to genuinely be a decent person.
My respect for KLove soared after reading that article.
As noted in the PBP thread:
Cavs record = 37-26 (.587)
When TT Plays = 19-23 (.452)
When TT sits = 18-3 (.857)
TT starts = 10-11 (.476)
TT off bench = 9-12 (.429)
It isn’t an: “If he comes off the bench or starts” thing. It is a: “we stink when he plays & are awesome when he doesn’t” thing.
4 of the wins when starting were the 4 in a row post trade.
It’s just mind boggling…
https://twitter.com/jrluvshenny/status/970524546532069378
Even though Pistons stink, the Cavs beat them as they should…by 22 points, so that was nice to see. The difference was the Cavs hitting their shots more frequently. I bet if they shot the same away against Philly and Nuggets, those were wins as well. Found comment in thread about Lue being defensive about Nance questions…..what a tool….its clear as ever that Nance and Cedi bring energy to this group and really TT and JR need to hang out with Holland and Perrantes at end of bench. Even Zicic looked more useful than TT and he played more minutes… Read more »
It was my comment on Lue being defensive. I caught the tailend of the postgame, so I just went back and watched it again. Lue looked tired from the start, apparently he’s still a bit sick. Seemed to have a laugh with some of the questions early, & actually wasn’t as defensive as I thought he sounded first time around. No more than usual, anyway.
Now that he has let slip TT is out for 2 weeks, man, if Larry keeps playing like he did today, there is no way back into the starters for TT.
Will not be able to listen till later today, but, mercy, IT last night: 5-21, 1-9 from three, terrible defense, and ball hogging terrible possessions down the stretch. Good thing he has his superpowers back or he’d really suck.
Haha. We had that game in in the background and laughed at IT. He was an absolute killer down the stretch (of his own team).
Listened to about half the pod so far, I loved Tom’s ‘statistical gerrymandering’.
Heavy lies the cape…
Lonzo appeared visibly annoyed…cannot imagine why…
A front-court rotation of Love, Bamba and Nance would be killer for Cavs.
No LbJ? =(
Of course LBJ as well
I like Bamba as a prospect, but he will in all likelihood suck next year, for whoever he plays for…just like all but a small handful of rookies always do…
I think he adds run protection immediately. The offense will need time.
He can protect the rim. He can also dunk on people. TT cannot do either of those things.
Bamba can hit jumpers as well. TT can’t do anything that Bamba can.
Bamba can do these thing, some better some worse, at the college level.
Nance, Love, LBJ. Bamba on the bench. Or Jackson. Or Ayton. Or even Porter or Bagley.