Podcast Episode 142: Hot Take Bonfire
2017-07-30https://soundcloud.com/ctb-5/episode-142-hot-take-bonfire
Well, it’s been a while since we had Ben and EG in the booth, and they were both pretty riled up given recent Cavalier events… so the hot take sparks were flying almost from the jump. Fortunately, Nate was there to keep the friction from becoming a Kyrie vs. LeBron-esque conflagration, so Ben and EG can probably still work together going forward. We got all hot under the collar about the Kyrie situation, who’s to blame, what LeBron might do about it, and who’s really pulling the strings behind the scenes. The highlight is probably the spirited and scorching hot debate over whether or not a Rose by any other name would be just a Razor (i.e. is Derrick Rose any better than peak Ramon Sessions — Nate did the math and it’s closer than you might think).
Put on your flame-retardant headphones, grab your fire extinguisher and listen to the guys spit some fire about the Cavalier summer thus far…
Listen above, on SoundCloud, iTunes, and Google Play.
That ending sucked.
Damn Indians blew it like the Warriors blew a 3-1 lead, but not as bad of course.
Forever man. What a bunch of frauds.
WTF??? This game!
Cols714 has been beating this drum forever. It’s why LeBron is still super underrated.
You have?????
It’s amazing his head fits through doorways.
Thanks, Nate, that is great.
I am a data scientist, and recognize this as a common problem. Basically, you can have really good models that are right a lot of the time, but you can never identify all the important variables, and some things are just hard to measure. So sometimes your models give bad advice.
Ugh… Shaw getting ready to pour gasoline on the mound.
But it’s now Miller Time.
Austin Jackson FTFW! Play of the night, week, month…
Yep
Goran Dragic, Justice Winslow, Tyler Johnson for Kyrie and Shumpert then Irving can battle it out with Dion Waiters for king of Miami.
I don’t like any of the Miami deals, but I am almost want to take one just so Kyrie has to play with Dion again!! That would be sooooo amazing.
So Melo now won’t waive his no-trade clause to play for the Cavs. I think this is good news, unless he’s bought out.
Details of the Timberwolves’ reported offer for Kyrie Irving aren’t known, but Andrew Wiggins isn’t part of Minnesota’s proposal, according to Darren Wolfson of 5 Eyewitness News (Twitter link). Wolfson adds that for the Wolves to have a real shot at acquiring Irving, their offer would need to include Wiggins “and more.”
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/08/wolves-not-offering-wiggins-for-kyrie-focused-on-extension.html?fv-home=true&post-id=71251
Sounds like there’s no chance there. I would be upset if Wiggins is the main piece in a trade for Kyrie Irving. I don’t think Wiggins is special.
Yeah it would have to be Wiggins and other pieces. You wouldn’t get equal value in this trade.
8 picks and Dudley and it’s a deal!
Jared Dudley would be pleased to know the attention he is getting in this blog in trade for Kyrie, not bad for a 32 year old who averaged 6.8 PPG and 67% FT last year.
And shot 45% from field and 38% from three, and a 1.89 dRPM, good for around the 90th percentile in the league. Plus, he’s not Shump.
But point taken. It’s not that I love Dudley so much. I just hate Shumpert.
I’m fine if Dudley is the third player we receive from Phoenix. If he is the #2 guy, no thanks. That deal doesn’t return enough value IMO.
Bledsoe Dudley and draft pick? I’m OK with this too.
Really? Feels like getting $0.60 on the dollar. It doesn’t improve us, and it doesn’t give us anything to move for an established star at the deadline. Meh
Bledsoe and Dudley help a bunch. Plus draft pick to trade later on.
Add Jackson to that deal or I walk.
Bledsoe only “helps” to the extent he helps cover the offense lost from trading away a 25 year superstar entering his prime.
Two picks and Bender or Chris.
Add TJ Warren to this trade, I’m in.
I don’t get the love for TJ Warren. Why do the Cavs want another guy who’s going to want a huge contract next summer?
So 2 days until Jackson and Bledsoe are Cavs. What number do you think they’ll wear?
I like your optimism.
2, 11
honestly (just between us), I don’t know why anyone would want to add Kyrie, let alone Shump. The net gain is so far below 0 on both of them.
When does the NBA start? I’m sick of the offseason . I want to watch Leb dunk on some guys for a few months.
Bright side is, season starts earlier on Oct. 17th this year.
I look forward to him dunking on Kyrie…
OK OK. Jackson over Dudley.
Both would be great. I doubt the sun’s do that though. I kind of don’t think we will even get Jackson now, at least based on the rumor mill.
I’m not taking any rumors too seriously until after rookies can be traded.
We have to understand that there is legitimately NOTHING to gain for the Suns at this time to tell the world (1) they are open to trading Josh Jackson or (2) they are open to trading him to Kyrie Irving. If they say they are willing to trade him now, before they finalize a deal, they risk pissing off the guy they just drafted. If the deal falls through (since they can’t trade him until August 3, or whenever), they look like fools. Of course they are going to tell the world they don’t want to trade the guy. Maybe… Read more »
Fair enough.
https://twitter.com/fivefifths/status/892331012587483136
I don’t get the joke this is trying to make?
They both look stoned.
Oh, okay, I didn’t know if that was the joke.
Jr is the three eyed raven.
JR looks like he’s about to sneeze…
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7kyu3x2
Bledsoe and Middleton is the dream
I don’t see the sense in sending our second best player to the only other team in the central division that even belongs on the same court with the CAVS.
The Bucks? We will sweep them.
Because we’d be getting a 6’8 SG who is a career 40% 3pt shooter. His length would help on defense, and his outside shooting would help spread the floor. He’d be a perfect fit on our team.
Bledsoe is the cherry on top in that deal.
come on. Kevin Love isn’t even in that trade
I would love this. I consider it highly unlikely.
I don’t see why Phoenix does that trade. Do the bucks send them a pick?
I wonder if the Cavs FO will keep Kyrie if they don’t get the deal they are looking for. That should be the right way to do it if you ask me, the Cavs shouldn’t trade him if they don’t get the right assets back but then again with how the relationship between Lebron and Kyrie has deteriorated in recent weeks is like how are they going to coexist?
Also, has coach Lue said something about this situation?
Can someone explain to me why Josh Jackson is such a BFD? I mean – we had Dion Waiters and TT both drafted at number 4, both of whom I assume we would have let loose in a microsecond given the opportunity to get a bona-fide star. How is Josh “Ive never played an NBA minute” Jackson so highly valued?
Agreed. Dudley would be preferable.
wait… Dudley is a star?
Ignore Cols. For some reason he thinks a 30 year old with 2 years left on his contract is a better fit than a guy the Cavs could have under contract for eight years and who can run like a deer and jump out of the gym.
Has size, too. He’d be a top two pick in most drafts. Not saying he’s can’t miss, cause almost no one is, but I’d love to take a chance on him.
I agree with Cols that Dudley is a better immediate fit than Jackson. Personally, I also think high draft picks are INSANELY overrated in the NBA.
All that said, I prefer Jackson over Dudley because OTHER teams value Jackson a lot more, which means we can flip him for another substantial piece to help win now.
Good rookies and good veterans are the best value trades in the nba. Stars are often overbid.
Cols, that’s one of the most ridiculous things you’ve posted here (which is saying something). You need to think a little outside the box, even if you can’t see Josh Jackson’s tremendous upside. He can be used to trade for an established star at the trade deadline.
Ridiculous that you think Jared Dudley is preferable.
Neither of those guys came out of such a deep draft. Some people had Jackson as the top 2-3 picks this year. Boston threw a curve and picked Tatum. He has way more potential than either Waiters or TT coming out of their drafts.
Lol… The Cavs made this list twice: Five worst deals of NBA free agency (RE: Jeff Green, and Kyle Korver)
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/20143148/nba-worst-free-agent-deals-summer
I think the media loves to pile on the Cavs this offseason. How is Jeff Green a top 5 worst FA signing, when we gave him the minimum on a 1 year deal? Unless you’re signing a guy who is going to purposefully injure your best player, I don’t understand how giving the least amount of money possible in an NBA contract to a veteran, could possibly be a bad signing? And Korver will make, what, $7.3M per year? For one of the best 3pt shooters in history who just led the NBA in 3pt% this past season, I’m wondering… Read more »
Korver ranks 155th in the NBA in salary.
Yep. This is dumb. Korver and Green were fine signings. Only idiots complain about vet min deals and below market deals for a backup SG
Yeah ESPN does have several hacks working for them. I pretty much hate ESPN as much as Fox News at this point.
My worst deals: Joe Ingles, Otto Porter, Christiano Felicio, Aaron Baynes, Tony Snell
I will continue to defend Joe Ingles. He is a top 10 wing defender and shot 44% from 3 last season and left money in the table to stay in Utah. He. An also make the odd play. They got a good deal with him.
Korver led the league from deep. Green is on a small deal. ESPN is the equivalent of Alex Jones for sports.
I agree that the Suns have the right assets to get Kyrie, but should should they? It’s unlikely he puts them in the playoffs next year, and if they are a lotto team both seasons, he’s definitely gone. I still think Denver, Miami, and Milwaukee make more sense as teams that should go after him.
If you want to look at it from the other team’s perspective- Denver, San Antonio, New York, Boston are probably the teams that make the most sense from a basketball perspective that counter his flaws and optimize his abilities. Milwaukee makes very little basketball sense as that team runs through the Alphabet.
From our perspective PHX and BOS have the assets that are most suitable in exchange for his value.
Giannis is exactly why it makes sense. Kyrie has been successful with LeBron as the point forward. Giannis isn’t the passer LBJ is, but would serve a similar role.
that’s exactly why Kyrie wants to leave………. do you not know why Kyrie is leaving? He wants the offense to run through him and him alone. Why would he leave because of Lebron and join the closest semblance of Lebron?
Yes, but Giannis isn’t the scorer or dominant personality LeBron is. Plus, Kyrie doesn’t have a say in the matter.
Cavs might try to please Kyrie and hope he waives the trade kicker bonus, ofcourse not to the extend of hurting Cavs team itself.
It’s a fair question. If I was suns, I’d be much more interested in a three way deal with Wiggins and dieing coming my way.
Dieng sucks
Thanks for endorsing him.
It is basically bad deal for any team that gets Kyrie given the asking price. Suns hoping Booker becomes a franchise player and if Kyrie goes there, they will never find out.
Booker certainly might be a franchise player. Agree that the Suns don’t really need to trade for Kyrie right now. Unfortunately, I think we won’t get much value for him. Dude is amazing offensive talent; it will be sad to get, what I imagine, will be 60 cents on the dollar for him.
I’m also wondering what else is going on btw Kyrie and LeBron. So much we probably don’t know, and will never know.
He’s going to sell a lot of tickets though.
Yes, perhaps. But the Suns have decent attendance (19th in the League last year–just looked that up since I had no clue). Not bad for a mediocre team. The Nuggets are dead last. Perhaps they can give up something good for Kyrie?
Doesn’t make sense for Denver either(basketball wise), they are like #1 in offensive efficiency after adding Jokic. Their need is for defensive stalwarts, not offense only players.
From ESPN: “Fact: After Nikola Jokic joined the starting lineup in Dec. 15, the Nuggets — not the KD edition of the Warriors, nor the LeBron-led Cavs — owned the NBA’s best offensive rating for the rest of the season (113.3 points pre 100 possessions). “
But few people are attending their games, apparently. Perhaps that will change next season.
I think winning and not Kyrie will help Denver with attendance. Denver added Milsap to that team, so they figure to make playoffs. Wouldn’t be surprised if they get #4 ranking out in west.
Sounds like we’re hosed. Maybe Durant will join our team?
You always have knicks and MJ’s Hornets.
Sounds like the suns as of right now have said no to dealing Jackson, which probably kills any deal with PHX.
JUST SAW DUNKIRK —REALLY ENJOYED —-FELT AS IF YOU WERE RIGHT THERE IN THE BATTLEFIELD ….GIVES YOU ALOT OF ADMIRATION OF WHAT THEY ENDURED !!!—–THINK GREEN COULD BE A PLEASANT SURPRISE FOR US THIS YEAR
No
I love the hilarious 4 team trade where we get Lilliard, Cousins, Melo and Amino. Pretty awesome.
You don’t like McCollum and a pick? Not enough?
Just saw dame. Sorry. Didn’t read. I actually pitched Kyrie for CJ and a pick two years ago.
This I would be okay with. I would want that pick unprotected though.
READ THE DANG ARTICLE, NATE
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/jeff-green-the-scar/
Nice piece. Hope he has a big bounceback year.
Great share! Really makes you want to root for the guy
Nolan movies THAT I”VE SEEN ranked
1. Inception
2. Dark Knight
3. Prestige
4. Memento
5. Batman Begins
6. Batman Returns
7. Insomnia
8. There is no number 8
9. There is no number 9
10. Interstellar (TERRIBLE AWFUL MOVIE)
So I guess you still need to see Following and Dunkirk then?
Memento and Following are my 1 and 2, but I’m not really a fan outside of those. Insomnia is ‘okay’, but a real drop from the original.
I liked Interstellar. It was a movie of big ideas tied together with one giant plot fudge which I was willing to forgive because of its ambition.
Interstellar is one of my favorite movies period.
With Irving likely on the move, perhaps the offense will move more often through Love, as the second option.
Kind of a ‘captain obvious’ statement.
Season two of mr robot sucked
In comparison to season one maybe, but it was still better than 90% of things on television or digital…
Things better than season two of robot. Stranger Things, The Americans, Better Call Saul, Master of None, Kimmy Schmidt, Westworld, and probably 100 others that I have not seen or forgot I saw.
Agree on Stranger Things and Better Call Saul… The Americans and Westworld were equally good… strongly disagree on Master of None and Kimmy Schmidt
I wish Better Call Saul was more like breaking bad. Breaking bad was one of my favorites.
Stranger Things and Westworld are really good. Game of Thrones and Vikings are my favorites, you should try those.
I saw like half of the first season of Mr. Robot and got bored.
man another dude came into work today and said Dunkirk was kinda boring. I refuse to believe it
PG13, since for a release like that, it’s all about the MONAYYYY!! But even though I am no fan of Nolan’s ‘blockbusters’ of recent years, I will still see it eventually…
I’ve seen it twice…once in IMAX…I wouldn’t say it was boring and the movie is quite entertaining but it has some flaws. Very little dialogue and half of it is hard to hear for some reason. I would strongly recommend seeing it in IMAX if possible.
I fell asleep for a few minutes… when I woke up, I walked out. I typically love Nolan’s films… this one just didn’t do it for me…
AGREE WITH ARCH ——WE NEED TO KEEP WITH THE INTENT ” WE STILL HAVE LEVERAGE ” DON’T GIVE IN TO MEDIOCRE OFFERS / PANIC ——IT IS A WAITING GAME —-AND AGREE WITH COLS IT IS ALL KYRIE ” BEING ABOUT ME ” GIVE CREDIT FOR LEBRON BEING MATURE / PROFESSIONAL AND NOT GETTING CAUGHT UP IN THE MEDIA HYPE ——-TAKE NOTICE KY THAT IS WHY YOU WOULD ALWAYS BE 2ND BEST ON THIS CAVS TEAM
Would Belsoe, Dudley and a pick be enough?
No. I would want Jackson or I walk away.
+1
Even though Dudley is the better win now guy?
If they want to throw in Dudley for Shump or whatever, fine, but I also want Jackson.
Agreed. Dudley does nothing for me unless he’s just a total throw in to swap with Shump or something.
Jackson is young and obviously wouldn’t be a Finals MVP caliber guy next year, but if he plays well, he’s also a piece that could net you a star at the deadline. That could potentially make it Bledsoe + Boogie (example) for Kyrie.
If they aren’t giving us Jackson, I absolutely hold out for something better.
Two picks. Almost no protections.
Doubt they’d give up two… and certainly not with no protection
Nope. Would rather have Jackson than a pick… but like I said on the pod, if the Suns are the only team with a legit offer, then Cavs will be in a tough spot vis a vis getting value…
Cavs offseason goals were to get younger and more athletic on the bench. Green, Osman, and Rose all satisfy this requirement. I don’t know why people would be disappointed in a team that adds those three guys to an already Finals bound team that had literally zero assets (except Gilbert’s big bucks) to use to acquire players. If Irving didn’t blow things up this offseason would be looking pretty great.
IDK if they got all that younger since Green will be 31 when the season starts and Rose will be 29… Osman is young, sure, but who knows what his game will look like over here…
This was a good podcast, BTW. EG brings such a nice balance to things I think.
Eh. The Kyrie trade thing is 100% on Kyrie Irving. It’s not LeBron’s fault. It’s not Gilbert’s fault. It’s Irving. He’s being paid the maximum he can get while starting on a championship level team while given the green light to shoot as much as he wants and chill as much as he wants in the regular season. There’s no better situation to be in than that. This is 100% on him. He’s an adult, not a kid.
This is a well reasoned and accurate take…
Agree 100%.
Awesome pod. My favorite part was that Dre Irving is LaVar Ball without the theatrics.
If the Suns toss in Jackson, it’s probably the perfect deal. While it’s more obvious by the year that’s Justice Winslow isn’t the second coming off Kawhi, Jackson might be.
I love Nate’s tweet about the Helicopter parent death match…
Thanks :)
I’m buying this shirt for Ben…
Hahaha. Jeez. That’ll teach me to spread info. I don’t even like his game that much. Messenger shot!
Kawhi? Jackson at the very best may be Jimmy Butler like. No one is coming close to being Kawhi.
I saw the Cavs were 24-7 when James & Love played & Kyrie did not over the last 2 years. That is 63 win pace. He is a selfish guy who is a selfish player on the court. Plus, his hoops IQ is pretty low because of it. If we want to beat the Durant version Dubs, stupid & selfish play gets you beat. Even with all that talent. Adios, moron!
Peak Ramon Sessions for $1.2M is fine with me.
Yep. Nate thinks he’s so clever with this comparison. But then at the end he has to admit that Sessions really sucked last year and is 30 and is making the same amount of money as Rose.
IT WASN’T MY COMPARISON!!!
I suck at listening. I thought is was your comparison. Either way it completely fails.
Huh? Look at their career stats I posted. Rose shoots four more shots a game and Sessions got to the line a little better. Otherwise, very similar.
Not seen much of Sessions recently but he was a good defender.
No he wasn’t. Sorry. He was atrocious.
Sessions sucked last year because he hit 30 and is clearly not the player he was. It wasn’t an “admission,” it was an analysis. Like I said, this wasn’t even my comparison, it was Ben’s, but thanks for listening.
EG making the argument I’ve felt about DRose this whole time.
Where are the rumors that the deal is just waiting for August 3rd from the Suns? I haven’t read anything but that the deal is not on the table?
Nevermind, I see Amico…
Most enjoyable pod in a while, thanks guys. And damn, EG – you had some Delly in your defence – no more coffee for you mate.
Ha… I had been holding in some takes for a while ;)
If Bledsoe didn’t have all those knee surgeries, I’d probably be more on board with the Suns trade.
If the Cavs trade for Bledsoe they almost have a starting line up of Klutch Sports representatives.