Overview: The Phoenix Suns dispatched the Cavaliers behind a 27 point, 12 rebound performance from Grant Hill. The Suns won despite shooting 6-19 from beyond the arc, which is extremely depressing.
The Cavs totally would have won this game if they didn’t suck bullets:
Two quick things to start out with: This team was the worst team in basketball before the injuries. And it was not particularly close. The first (Or, this is the worst team in basketball) on this site happened a month and a half ago, and that was when everyone was healthy. Also, every team in the league deals with injuries, if not to this extent. No team in decades has played this badly. Do you realize the Cavs are 0-21 in games decided by 10 or more points? That’s horrifying. There is no rationalizing the awfulness of this team. The team is, indeed, notable for its sheer ineptitude.
I don’t know how the Suns could have played worse. They showed no effort, and played their standard horrible brand of defense. Steve Nash honestly played like he didn’t want to have to lower himself to scoring on the Cavs’ defense. Channing Frye forced threes early in the shot clock. Robin Lopez decided he was Hakeem Olajuwon, to disastrous results. Vince Carter scored one basket.
The Suns played like they knew they could win without trying, and they did. They didn’t need to do anything beyond watch Grant Hill get to his favorite spots on the court at will and watch Jamario Moon and Antawn Jamison brick threes to come away with a road win.
Speaking of Jamison, I had my doubts about him when the Cavs got him, and he has confirmed those doubts in each of his games as a Cavalier. I don’t have anything against him personally. He’s a professional, he’s a veteran, and he’s tremendously skilled. However, he’s also a 6-9 volume shooter who doesn’t play defense. He’s Eddie House with 10 extra inches and much better PR. He does not pretend to play defense. He fires up a shot every time he gets a look, and occasionally converts. He exists only to put up numbers and allow more baskets than makes. Watching him has become painful to me.
It was good to see Gibson and his beautiful, beautiful three-point shot back, even if he was a bit unsure of himself every time he went inside the arc. I am MORE than okay with Gibson becoming the starting point guard if anyone is willing to offer cap relief and a 2nd round pick for Mo Williams. I am convinced that Daniel Gibson would be a quality Fisher/Arroyo starter or 6th/7th man on a good team, Anthony Parker would be a solid show starter (like Pavs on the Mavericks!) or 8th/9th man on a good team, and no other player on this team would have anything at all to offer to a team with championship aspirations.
Honestly, that’s all I have to say tonight. The games really are starting to blend together. At no point did I think the Cavs were going to win this game, and this was the closest loss they’ve had in a while. Until next time.
Woah, since when did Fisher (this Fisher) and Arroyo become quality starters? Put Mo Williams in that role and allow him to play with Bosh, LBJ, and Wade and he suddenly looks like Monta Ellis too. I’m sure Gibson would look good against those guys as well. But I tell you this, I fully believe GIbson becoming the starting PG would make no difference. I would say make things worse, but it can’t get worse.
See, I have an even bleaker outlook than you do John. And that is sad. I don’t think Gibson has much of anything to offer to thisteam in its rebuilding process. He is an extremely limited player and quite frankly we need to be looking to upgrade every single position, including watever position we decide t play Gibson. In 3 years, I honestly hope not a single guy remains on this team except a vastly improved Eyenga. If he doesn’t make a huge jump ( and I don’t think he will because I’m so pessimistic) then I hope he isn’t here either.
Yeah, but Mo can’t play defense. Boobie can. The Cavs were able to hide Mo in 08-09, but in 09-10 he regressed and now he’s simply hemorrhaging points. And I think Boobie is better than Arroyo or Mo, those are just the first “okay, we have guys who can create offense, just bring the ball up and make open threes” point guards I can think of.
Gibson’s defense is to Mo’s defense what Mo’s passing is to Gibson’s passing. Neither are good at either thing, but one guy is a little better than the other.
And, at some point, we probably have to figure out a different narrative to the season than just pointing out the ways in which we are awful – which, granted, are many. I’m not sure I have the solution, but the question remains: how do we talk about this team without it just being a laundry list of their shortcomings. That’s important – because the list is so long – but the games will continue to blend together if there’s not some other narrative to follow than “good at professional basketball or not.” Don’t have the answer – and not suggesting we pretend what’s happening isn’t – just a thought to put out there…
Robert, it could be a maturation of the young guys thing, but Hickson is fatally flawed, Manny Harris is a fringe talent, and Samardo Samuels hasn’t shown that he’s more than a poor man’s Ike Diogu. The jury’s out on Eyenga, but he’s no Blake Griffin or even a Brook Lopez.
John, Clearly Samuels is the poor man’s Glen Davis – they even kinda look alike (and I think Baby is what Samuels should be shooting for, frankly). No, I don’t think the story is the maturation of the young guys until the young guys actually mature some. They’re all fringe rotation players at best right now (though I occasionally find myself with Eyenga Kool-Aid in hand thinking about him as our wing Andy). My point was just that, yes, we’re bad this year. We’re awful. We’re even lucky enough to be historically bad. So, given that, what else can we talk about besides the details of that badness? Is the story just that we suck? Or is there any bigger (or several other) thread this season? There are, obviously, several answers to this … though you still end up with a team that’s losing.
I for one find Krolik’s written flogging of this team to be immensely entertaining and, besides my ties to the city, is the only thing keeping me interested with the Cavs at this point. It’s pretty sad when I look forward to a blog recap after a game that I never even wanted to watch.
“and no other player on this team would have anything at all to offer to a team with championship aspirations.”
You’re not counting Andy, right?
I agree with John, I wouldn’t be averse to seeing Mo traded at thus point, even if it was for basically cap space. I mean, that’s what we got him for, right? To expect to turn him for a first rounder or talented prospect is asking too much, and Mo has really shown this year that he’s not going to be a guy to lead this team into the future. Boobie is definitely not a perfect solution at PG, but come on we used to have Eric Snow playing on winning teams for us. So if the talent elsewhere gets upgraded, Boobie will be fine for a while at PG.
I was watching this game on League Pass and got to hear the Suns announcers. Besides the depressing displays of pity they gave the Cavs at points, they also brought up an interesting point. The Cavs roster is made up of 6 second rounder and 4 undrafted players. Even considering the injuries that have forced us to sign some fringe players, that is an appalling lack of talent. I think that it shows just how bare the cupboard was when LeBron got here, and how we’ve been scraping the bottom of the barrel ever since. Not sure if I should praise the Cavs for producing a winner around LeBron with that or just conclude that LBJ is superhuman. Anyway, yeah I’m amazed at the lack of first round talent, we need to trade for some picks and solve this problem quickly.
It’s absolutely incredible how low this team has fallen. It’s like we’re just scraping the D-leagues in hopes that one of the kids will pull a Tom Brady.
I want to keep Boobie for no other reason than to give me a reason to watch. He’s the closest thing to “talented” this team has, and I really don’t think I could really bring myself to watch a game without Boobie, Andy, or even Mo, as much as I’ve disliked his play for years. It just isn’t the same team.
“and no other player on this team would have anything at all to offer to a team with championship aspirations.”
Obviously Varejao is the team’s mvp, and could contribute to pretty much any other team.
Mo, Andy, and Boobie are the only players worth watching on this team. For that matter, they are the only players worth anything on this team either.
John,
Do you think you’ll ever delve into the subject of “How this team got so bad”?
Is it Ferry’s fault? The fact that no house can stand without its foundation? Spirits completely broken after December 2nd?
I just feel like it’s unfair to point at this team and say “well no wonder he left”. Yet, it’s so easy to look at this team and think “well no wonder he left”. How was this team the best in the league two years in a row and now one of the worst teams ever, with historical evidence to support that hyperbole?
The team has been bad the entire season, not just after Dec 2nd. They had the EASIEST schedule to start the year and managed to go 7-10 with it. They had a fluke win on opening night. SInce then, they’ve been very injured the schedule is catching up with them.
Last year’s team had a couple of things this years team couldn’t dream of having: 1. Capable Perimiter defenders, including LeBron, but also Delonte and 2. Actual size with Shaq and Z (and I hated Z, but you need size in this league).
I agree, Rich. There are certainly pieces missing last year to this, but the question still stands.
Are Lebron, Delonte, Z, and Shaq the difference between 63 and 8 wins? I feel like it’s not that simple. Or, if that were the case wouldn’t it be fair to say this current squad is two centers and two capable wing defenders short of at least being .500?
Coaching probably has something to do with it as well, but Byron Scott is supposed to be more than able to lead a reconstruction project.
My bigger question is, though no one expected them to be good, not many people expected them to be historically awful. Is Lebron really the difference between 8 wins and 63? Lebron/shaq/z/delonte the differnce between 8 and 63?
If Lebron/Shaq/Delonte/Z were the difference, then it’s reasonable to conclude Danny Ferry did an excellent job building a contending roster. The scraps of this season though, seem to indicate he was not a world-beating GM.
Leading to my question, how are the 10/11 Cavs this bad?
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^^^
the support cast was always mediocre in big moments
I honestly feel awful for you guys. I’m a Houston fan, and thought we had it bad with all the injuries that we’ve had over the past decade, but man. We at least had the Laker series in ’08 and the two rings in the nineties. Aside from the Lebron era, you guys really had nothing. I gotta give credit to you Cavs fans out there, you gotta be a true fan to stick with a team like this.
As for the team itself, it’s just a mess. I honestly don’t know what this team could do to get better. You guys need position upgrades everywhere, everything looks out of sync, and no one seems to have real talent. Even worse, there doesn’t seem to be a veteran leader. Every team needs a leader to do well.
John,
I think you do a tremendous job with this blog. You combine knowledge and pathos really well in your writing. You are humorous without being vicious. I really enjoy this blog and and I am not really a Cavs fan.
The question about how the Cavs got this bad this fast is a loaded question that CANNOT be easily answered with one simple aruguement. Here’s the thing, there are alot of choices and decisons that were made in the past 2-3 years that have significantly had a serious impact in how awful this team is. For example,2008, the Cavs aqcuire Mo Williams,for almost nothing at the team. He came here for his offensive output but his defense was seriously lacking. A price the team,and Lebron, obviously thought was worth it. And it was.For a period of time. 2009,Cavs aqcuired Shaq.a hall of famer guy who did actually provide a post presence and was a defensive anchor at that possition. But he’s Shaq.His declaration that he was here just to help Lebron was at best a photo op that would go terribly bad later. The complete disintergration of the teams chemistry later would prove that. 2010,Cavs aqcuire Antwaun.Yet again,for almost nothing since they brought back Z. A guy who was the”stretch four”alot of people wanted but yet again seriously lacking in his defense. Meanwhile while Ferry was clearly going all in in trying to surround Lebron with a great supporting cast, he made the Cavs a flailing defensive team. Now danny Ferry did what was best at the time. The three major deals he made were for nearly nothing. An dthe people he brought made up a supporting cast good enough to win a whole lot of games and come close to winning it all last year had alot of things not gone wrong. Problem is, during that time we surrended a whole lot of draft pick, that may have ultimately not meant alot, but with that the ability to develop young players and develop them for the future.Of most of the things that happened this past summer the one thing that was curiousier to me was the fact that the front office trullu believed that lebron was coming back and as such didnt even try to have a feasible plan B. In the end they lost,Lebron,Z,Delonte and Shaq,all four of which were really good defensive players, and they fired a coach that had made this team a very good defensive team Now the Cavs are awful this season. They are potentially historically bad. But of all the reasons that have been put out there, the main reason that glares to anyone who has watche dthem through the past several years is how significantly worse they are defensively. Ultimately no matter what happens, when you go from a top 5 defensive team to a 29th defensive team, without decent talent to counter offensively,YOU WILL BE THIS BAD. And now we think back to it all and wonder, why exactly did we get Mo Williams,Was it worth getting Antwaun gigantic contract for aging skills,was it neccesarily to fire Mike Brown at the time we did.The answers to this questions may very well be lurking in the future. This team could be going through pains that will pay up down the line. This much we do know. The Cavs are hurting,both physically and franchise wise because of past decisions.
Anyone want to sum up Judy’s post for me? I’m really tired, and my eyes keep crossing, but I can tell there’s some good content in there.