- I’ll start things off with some “what is this team going to do at the deadline” conjecture. From where I’m standing, the team’s best trade chip is Boobie. He plays good defense, he’s a dead-eye shooter who knows how to get open, he can handle the ball and make some plays, and he doesn’t do dumb things. He’s also got an easy contract to live with, which you can’t really say about Andy. Every contender with an iffy point guard or no real backup should be calling to ask about this guy. Here’s the issue — when Boobie has been on the floor, the team has been mildly competitive/fairly bad. The second he steps off the floor, the team is downright abysmal. (Sessions has a promising +/- as well, but I attribute a lot of that to his garbage-time prowess.)
He’s also young, and has the aforementioned manageable contract. I don’t feel like any team would give up a lottery pick or legit long-term asset for Boobie, but he’ll definitely draw interest and give the front office a chance to blow the thing up — what do you guys think? Should the team be shopping Boobie, or should he be a part of the Cavs’ long-term plans? (Also, if we can sucker a team into giving up an actual asset for Mo, I’m absolutely on board.)
- So, the Cavs play the Heat again tomorrow! And the two teams couldn’t be going in more different directions! In their last 10 games, the Heat have outscored their opponents by 14.3 points per game. The Cavs have lost their last 10 games by an average of 16.5 points per game. That’s a difference of 30.8 points per game. I do not think this will end well, although the part of me that liked wrestling as a kid always telling me that something unexpected will happen in these kind of games. Probably not, though. Can we even call this a trap game for the Heat? It’s more of a “don’t trip over that old lady’s walker after you get done beating her” game. (By the way, the spread for this game has the Heat winning by 17.5 points — hat tip to Scott Sargent.)
- That’s all for me tonight. It sure would be a nice change of pace if the Cavs manage to win tomorrow — if not, all that happens is that they lose another game, right? At this point, that can’t be a very big deal.
I for one don’t want to see us trade Gibson. For all the reasons you just mentioned, including the most important: “he’s young”. The next most important is that he’s shown that when there is a hole in a part of his game, he fixes it. Both very necessary attributes for a player on a rebuilding team.
I guess the question is could we get someone *younger* and *better* in return for him? I doubt that…
I think the most obvious move is to try and move Jamison, Mo, and Andy. I hate to see Andy go, but as much as teams have sincerely coveted him over the years I think we can get all the picks and assets we want from a team in return as long as one of the teams that wants him is in contention near the deadline.
I’d like to see us trade off Parker also. He’s clearly not going to be a long-term solution for the Cavs if they are rebuilding, and if his shooting numbers stay as high as they’ve been someone will trade for him just as a spot-up shooter.
Heat could use another PG that can shoot…
Gibson is actually the player I’d least like to part with, for the reason you enumerated as well as some others.
His skills– proven three point stroke, ability to handle the ball a little bit and play D– are pretty rare, and he is a proven vet. Pretty much this precise skill set is what we went looking for when we signed Damon Jones in 2005. Now, the fact that Jones actually possessed none of these skills is neither here nor there. But we compensated DJ pretty handsomely and gave him a multiyear deal for claiming to have these abilities. Boobie is proven to be this player; I say we hang on to him unless we can get a decent lottery pick for him, or include him in a lopsided package deal that brings us back a ridiculous haul.
In addition to being one of our only catalysts whether starting or coming off the bench this year, I think we have to be operating under the assumption that we’re trying to put a decent team out there again within a couple years. Given his age, you have to think that by the time we want to be a contender again, he will still be a productive player. Rather than dump him now for who-knows-what and have to find another player of his ilk when we have a centerpiece scorer to compliment again, I’d personally rather have Boobie around to watch and enjoy as a member of the team in the meantime. These are the Dark Days, you know. Giving some consideration to his contract, high character, and affinity for the city and organization, it’s possible he could play for us until we are relevant again. I’d like that.
I think I’d die a little bit if we shipped him for San Antonio’s second rounder or something.
I can’t see how we’re going to move AJ. It would have to be a contender and all contenders seem pretty sorted for stretch 4 types. Mo’s lack of D also makes him rather undesirable.
We’re going to have to ship out a decent piece, an AV or a Gibson, if we want to rebuild. Otherwise we’re going to be stuck with this roster until we win out in the lottery one day.
John, I understand the instinct to automatically move any tradeable asset on this team and completely rebuild through the draft yet I feel like there are a few things to consider when debatng whether to shop Gibson, Andy, or even (shudder) Sessions. The first thing to look at is obvously age. All three of them are players who have yet to hit their athletic prime which typically seems to occur around the age of 28 followed by a 3-5 year peroid of peak performance. If we are on a three year rebuilding plan then boobie and sessions would be enterng their prime while andy would be right in the thick of his.
The second thing I wonder about is would we really get reciprical value for someone like Gibson or Andy? If we get first rounders for hem proal bu a late second rounder from a contender. I don’t think we can get the same value for two skilled players who will be in their prime in the next three years. Drafting an entire new team sounds great but what happens when you have an entire team of young players and no veteran leadership. Look what’s happening on this team right now without real leadership. We will need a veteran presence that has been around for awhile for a rebuild to work.
Lastly you have to be careful trading away the two most popular players this team has. You think its miserable now? Imagine without the lone bright spots of Andy and Boobie. Ask he Indians how long a season feels with no real fan favorites for the fans to root for. We have to keep the fan base around this season.
I don’t really want to part with Gibson. I doubt what we get in turn would be worth anything, and I’d rather just keep a fan favorite. That’s my two cents.
Unless we’re getting high draft picks back there’s little point shipping out the talent we have.
There isnt any point to ship out someone like Boobie. He is THE fan favorite and has a proven skill set. All of the reasons that he is our biggest tradable asset plus his love for playing here make him un-tradable. As for the market for bigs, look to NY depending on how they are towards the deadline. They would absolutely trade for one of our bigs who fit their system (Varejao/Jamison) No one would mind getting a gallinari and eddy curry. Mo will be harder to move than everyone thinks he will be, not much market for a short guard who cant defend….
I don’t mind trading any player if it will make us better. I’d also like to trade players for players with talent versus players with potential. I’ve said it several times, we have players like JJ, Manny, Samuels and Eyenga who all have great ‘potential’ but yet to pan out. I’d rather see us trade draft picks and players for someone like an Iggy or Mayo or other ‘proeven’ asset.
I don’t mind trading Jamison or a Mo to a contender as part of a salary dump, but it really depends more on timing than anything else. We already have draft picks in 2012 and good chance of have a lottery pick in both 2011 and 2012 the way things are currently looking. Jamison’s hefty salary comes off the books after next season regardless as well as other smaller contracts, so if we think this is a 2-3 year rebuilding process, we don’t need to rush into salary dump deals. In fact there may be an advantage to waiting as we don’t know who will be in the draft this year with the impending lockout, which could make the 2012 draft ‘extra deep’. Stockpiling picks and having a lot of extra cap space then for smart trades may be a better solution to doing something now.
Another thing I’d like to avoid is trading assets that are more difficult to replace than what we have. As of now, athletic bigs that can defend and rebound are at somewhat of a premium. That’s why so much interst is shown in Andy. Getting a slasher or draft picks for him (both relatively easy to find in the draft or open market) doesn’t make us better, it just fills one hole and creates another. I’d rather us keep Andy than trade him just to replace for another player just like him.
If we’re really going to proceed with a fire sale, I think it’s most important to try and get extra first round picks, and either or both of the following:
1. A true 7-footer
2. A legitimate point guard
Centers are the scarcest assets in the NBA. Take a look at some of the journeymen and actual scrubs that are suiting up and starting for contenders. If we could find a way to get a durable, mobile young big man who can score points, rebound and control the paint, he would be a fixture in the lineup for years to come.
It has been years since the team has had a point guard in the true sense of the word. Not since Andre Miller or maybe Brevin Knight have the Cavs had a lead guard who looked to set teammates up first and facilitate the offense. Granted, LeBron was such a focal point in the offense that we could kinda make due with “short guys who could shoot” at the 1 position.
Keeping in mind that we’re probably not going to be competitive for at least a year, I don’t particularly care if we get guys that are ready to contribute right away. Without the pressure of jockeying for playoff position, we could give a promising young PG or Center the minutes they may not have been able to get on a contender.
Also, I think it’s fair to say that it’s easier to identify prolific shooting guards and small forwards coming out of college; PGs and Cs are more likely to be draft busts or not replicate the success they had in the college game. So it would be preferable to trade for NBA-proven players at these positions.
By the same token, I have very little interest in acquiring a prominent 2 or 3 unless he is the superstar we’re looking for. I have visions of the Ricky Davis years dancing in my head. I think once we have the point guard and center foundation laid, then we start looking for a crazy scorer.
Regardless of who does or doesn’t go, I think these are the two types of assets we should focus on receiving for the players we ship out, in addition to extra first round picks.
That’s how it started in ’86, with the draft of Mark Price and Brad Daugherty, right?
I mean as much as I like Boobie, you’d probably trade him if you could get the Clippers’ lottery pick somehow, no?
This is a great discussion.
We got to keep Gibson. He wants the responsibility. That says worlds about him.
What I’d love to know about is this 14.5 million dollar trade exception we got in the summer. I’ve tried to find articles explaining what it exactly means and how it is used, but have come up empty, or have failed to understand its value. Can anyone out there explain it? Like through an example?
Since we only have until next July to use it, it must be on the front of GM Grant’s mind at the moment.
The thing is, we’re not getting the Clippers’ lottery pick for Boobie. The focus should be moving Mo, Jamison, Parker, Moon, and possibly Hickson for quality swingmen and centers. We may have to package someone with them to move them and clear room (we also have some expiring contracts in Parker, Moon, and Jawad). There should be a three tier goal: #1 acquire young, talented players at every position except PF (the only position we’re deep at – though I’d give I’d take young 4s if we gave up Hickson), #2 dump salary (Jamison and Williams fire sale), #3 acquire early to mid first round and early 2nd round draft picks (arguably more valuable than last first round picks – since they’re not guaranteed, and good foreign players won’t play for the late first round wage scale).
Trading Boobie makes no sense, since he and Andy are really the only players saying and doing the right things on a nightly basis. They’re the only ones that seem to have held over the culture of winning mentality. If you can get a talented young player by throwing him in, then you do it, but otherwise no. The problem right now is that with the impending lockout we are EPICALLY screwed. No one is going to enter the draft next year, so it’s going to be a year and a half before we get anyone good. All our goals should be focused towards 2012 picks.
Varejao, for my money, is the most valuable trade chip we have. A big who has quick feet, takes charges, and rebounds really well + he doesn’t kill your team with terrible shots. Lots of teams need something like him coming off the bench. ATL could use him badly.
And I should be working in Vegas because two nights ago I said the spread should be 16.5. Pretty damn close.
Also, the notion that we have no assets is a little silly. If we want to take on bad salary, there’s always LeBron’s trade exception. Steven Jackson anyone?
To me Boobie is the player the Cavs should be most inclined to hold onto because he is the one player who could be useful throughout and after the rebuilding process. One, he is a veteran of some good teams and an emerging leader. Two he is a talented offensive player whose defense has improved tremendously. Three, he is young enough that he will still be in his prime in three or four years. Not even Andy can definitely say that. Boobie Gibson is the one player I would definitely keep.