Spursception
2014-08-12Almost immediately after the Spurs celebrated the conclusion of their ethereal basketball symphony I found myself between flights in Philly – a three hour layover of infinite possibilities. I searched frantically for uninterrupted charging stations to calm my insatiable device hunger. When the juice finally started flowing, I decided to write the most passive aggressive knock on LeBron James definitive eulogy for the “Big 3” era of pro basketball. I shelved it long enough for the Cavs to sign Kyrie to the Pepsi MAX, LeBron to make peace with NEOhio, and the KLove #WojBomb to detonate. So now what?
Well, Howard Bryant wrote a similar piece in ESPN The Magazine (although he arrived at a much different conclusion) and I have not the fortitude to polish a hot mess while reconciling the central claim with the current situation.
But I’m skeptical about the Cavs dedication to patience. And what the Spurs did was instructive to every team in the NBA. So I’m going to prune and pick from the autosaved “Document 1” that’s been open for months on my laptop and briefly describe what the Cavs should learn from all this.
The NBA has always had superstars, with Wilt Chamberlain becoming the game’s first mega-star. But for decades the superstars were born out of championships. The mantra today is that championships are born out of superstars. The inception of this idea belongs mostly to Michael Jeffrey Jordan, the game’s greatest player. No man changed the NBA more than Jordan. It was thought that no NBA team could (should) win a championship with a scoring champion leading the way.
https://twitter.com/tompestak/status/484889556828061696
This was made evident by Jordan’s insanely high usage during the late 80s, when Larry Bird dubbed him “God playing basketball”. It was also thought that no NBA team could snatch the most coveted prize without a dominant Center. But Michael Jordan transcended historical data and conventional wisdom, and with a little luck, a pitch-perfect supporting cast (after they had been slowly molded like clay), and two 3-peats, the NBA landscape forever changed. After most pundits (errantly) placed Kobe Bryant on top of the NBA food chain, the story of this game has been of the trials and tribulations of transcendent Jordan look-alikes, their “Pippen-types”, or “second bananas”, and eventually, the thought that you need “not one, not two….” But THREE players, a trifecta of transcendent stars in order to win at the highest level. The Pistons, in 2004, were the greatest aberration of the modern NBA (small samples sizes and all that), and something that most assuredly would never be replicated in the era of Superteams born of superstar collusion. And so the game’s brightest star, a Finals MVP, a perennial All-Star and a Hall of Fame coach turned GM took everything they knew to be true about the modern NBA, harnessed it, and won 2 championships. They abandoned the organic process of team-building, of drafting diamonds in the rough, of sharing as equally in defeat as in victory. They abandoned the grind in order that they might just win. And they won.
It may have led to their pre-mature breakup. As Brian Windhorst recently mentioned in a podcast with Bill Simmons,
“I really think the seeds of their long-term undoing, happened the day after the first Decision. The day after the first Decision, the Heat traded six draft picks…They basically gave away all those mechanisms to develop players. To be honest with you, they got rushed because they wanted to do that party. They wanted to do that party and they had to have the guys signed to do it.”
Feels a bit crazy to critique the moves the Cavs have made since David Griffin took over, but no one can characterize what has transpired as patience. Nate’s covered this extensively (and with excellence I might add) as the token grump. Whether dumping Tyler Zeller and Sergey Karasev in a frantic cap-clearing move matters remains to be seen. Whether dealing Wiggins (out of fear that Chicago or Golden State might snatch up Love) for Love comes back to haunt the Cavs remains to be seen. Critiquing these moves is typical Monday Morning Quarterbacking, but when the euphoria subsides, the Cavs need to get re-acquainted with patience. LeBron James functioning as co-owner of the Cavs renders this difficult.
If there is one player on the Spurs that most embodies the difference between the Spurs and the rest of the league, it is Boris Diaw. It wasn’t long ago that Diaw was at the end of the bench on one of the worst teams in NBA history – ironically enough – Jordan’s Bobcats. This past week Diaw carved up the Heat’s defense in just about every way possible. He’d shoot with space, drive past over-aggressive close-outs, make a nifty interior pass after pump faking a big out of position, run around the perimeter to hand off the ball to a swirling teammate heading in the opposite direction. He could box out bigs, play passable defense on wings, and at the offensive end he’d punish the former for being too slow, and the latter for being too small. Sounds like a superstar no? Until you realize we’re talking about Boris Diaw, “man boobs” just a few ellipses around the sun ago. But what makes Diaw so special is that he’s not harnessing his individual skills to beat his defender, or to stop the man he’s checking. He’s playing perfectly within the Spurs framework and yet he’s playing like more than a role player, even though he is a role player. He’s not cemented in the corner waiting for a kick out. He’s not afraid of the moment. Because with the Spurs, there’s no moment. There’s just the team and the optimization of a shared goal. It completely infects everything the Spurs do, and not only on the court. Off the court, Tim Duncan, 5-time NBA champion and one of the greatest players in the history of the game, said no more than a week ago that he was able to do what he’s doing right now because Pop had created a role for him that he was comfortable with while managing his minutes. The franchise player, on one of the greatest teams ever, declared himself a mere role player achieving success because of his coach’s brilliance. Why? To optimize Spurs basketball. This is why the Spurs defy father time and win without a LeBron or a Kobe – their dedication to the optimization of basketball requires their individual intelligence, individual skill sets, individual dynamicism and craftiness, and they convert it into collective dominance. And their lack of elite athleticism, lack of a trio of superstars, their lack of transcendent isolation scorers, it simply removes the distraction for sub-optimal basketball. Age and athleticism should be their liabilities, especially against two of the most athletic teams of all-time in the Thunder and now the Heat, and yet they are dropping 120+ points a night.
I think the key takeaways are that the Cavs need to be patient enough to allow players to grow into roles under David Blatt. This Cavalier era must not be a countdown to LeBron’s next decision. There can be no “Championship or bust” mentality. Blatt can’t be on the hot seat if the Cavs are struggling in December. I’m relieved that LeBron digs Dion’s game, because otherwise I fear the Cavs would move him before allowing Dion the chance to be a fundamental cog in a well-oiled machine. The other takeaway is the Cavs MUST MANAGE MINUTES. Obviously LeBron’s are the most important ones, but Anderson Varejao’s must be handled with the utmost conservatism. Everyone’s going to be in a hurry to figure this thing out and the reality is that the Cavs absolutely must not burn out in the regular season with injuries and fatigue. Let Patty Mills be your guide. It doesn’t do your team any good to have bench players injected into playoff battles with no confidence because they never see the light of day in the regular season. The Cavs should exhaust their bench, spread the grind around, and work on having multiple lineups to throw at opposing teams. The Spurs won the regular season with no player logging more than 30 minutes a game. They won the playoffs with no player logging more than 33. There is no reason to ride Kyrie, Love, and Varejao to exhaustion, increasing the probability of injury. And if LeBron is truly planning on retiring a Cavalier, he could play for another decade. They should be thinking about a 10-year minutes plan for LeBron right now.
The Spurs offense is analogous to Mariano Rivera’s cut-fastball. It is close to perfect, almost unstoppable, and doesn’t require some herculean effort to summon. It is the culmination of years of dedication and habit-forming. Playoff basketball is often described as a half-court grind-fest because the participants come to know each other, figure out how to stop each other, and the resultant affair is a possession game where the highest percentage shots just might be those difficult attempts that the game’s greats have made look commonplace. But for the Spurs in these playoffs there was no grinding, no possession battles, no stagnation or isolation. There was only the pursuit of the next advantage, the next leverage point with which to methodically bury their opponents in a barrage of open-looks. With each substitution against the Heat, the feeling was that the Spurs were just picking the right tool for the job. And the Heat looked like the little brother playing Tecmo Bowl while his older brother spied on his play calling. The mantra that John Hollinger accentuated, that the team with the best starting lineup was most primed for a deep playoff run, was abandoned. The Spurs bench was as effective as its starters because the team doesn’t have a pecking order, and they’ve never emphasized anything more than optimizing basketball. Manu Ginobili, whose per-36 minute averages look an awful lot like Kobe’s, has never had a problem coming off the bench. Tony Parker learned a long time ago that there was a time and place for his individual wizardry with the ball, particularly on his legendary below-the-rim finishes. But he’s grown into a Spur. He has a role, and he executes it perfectly.
There is so much the Cavs have to learn from the Spurs. For LeBron, the icon of the region, the franchise, the NBA, he needs to be coach-able like The Big Fundamental. He needs to buy into the system or the Cavs will never be more than the sum of their parts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqU0XGmOJxw
Kyrie Irving should remind us of young Tony Parker. Sure, Kyrie’s a much better outside shooter, but young Tony was similarly a wizard off-the-dribble and finishing in traffic. Parker has grown as a player and has learned to run the offense, using breakdowns to generate higher percentage shots for the team. Kyrie’s got the best handles in the game, now he needs to harness them to create advantages for others.
Dion Waiters? Bro. Just be like M..anu. Seriously. Forget about starting. Manu’s embraced his bench role and with four championships and over 100 million dollars in the bank I’d say it’s worked out for him. Follow his lead!
And to all the Cavs GMs and wanna-be GMs, recall that Gregg Popovich, the most respected man in basketball, allowed his favorite player, George Hill, to be traded for an intriguing rookie prospect with big hands, elite athleticism, and tenacious D. Smart move by the Spurs management, and good on Popovich for allowing his organization to do its job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKcZJf2IXxI
LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, and Paul Pierce were all born into this NBA, the one invested in their stardom. The brutality that Michael Jordan suffered at the hands of the Bad Boy Pistons is merely a history lesson now. (and the game is better off)
Jordan showed the world that dynasties need not require a dominant big. As Tim Duncan (or so the story went), Kevin Garnett, and Shaq ceded control to the wings and became role-players, the last vestiges of a bygone era seemed to be retiring on our watch. Times have changed. Andrea Bargnani was a number 1 overall pick. The current crop of traditional big men have failed to move the needle in recent years (whether due to injuries or not). The need for floor spacing bigs that would keep the lane unclogged for the incredible (not to mention untouchable) driving wings is paramount. The transformation seemed almost complete – a league run completely by stars that shine with the ball in their hands. But maybe, just maybe, the all-transcendent, max-contract, brand-building wing – the Jordan lookalike – is actually in danger of being retired. Or at least the idea that to win a championship you need that type of player, plus a Pippen lookalike, and a sprinkling of spot up shooters…maybe that idea is in danger of being retired.
It’s a tough sell. Are the ’11 Mavericks and ’14 Spurs the harbingers of a new era? The Heat did win two out of the last four titles. And I’ll no longer pretend they were just a mash-up of transcendent talent fortunate enough to emerge from that wacky lockout season and to be the benefactors of a weak conference and an epic Spurs collapse in 2013. (Just reminding everyone those are both true). They bought into Spoelstra’s system and in some ways maximized their team by curbing Bosh and Wade. But there is a distinct difference between the genesis and the resource allocation of the recent Heat and the Champion Spurs. The good news? If I’m wrong, if the Spurs are an aberration, then rest assured – the Cavs will be top heavy, but they will be REALLY heavy. LeBron, Irving, (maybe) Kevin Love, Varejao, and much more youth in Waiters, Thompson, and SuperDova than the Heatles amassed – that’s a huge collection of talent. And if I’m right? The Cavs just hired David Blatt, a coach that made his mark by molding his roster into more than the sum of their parts. Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but by all accounts he’s Popovich-like. (Google’ll tell ya)
Oh, and overnight the Cavs added the best passing SF in the history of the NBA. If Kevin Love joins the party they will have the best passing SF, PF, and one of the best passing C (Varejao) in the entire league. If anyone has the roster with the skillsets to mimic the relentlessly unselfish, high-efficiency attack of the Spurs, it will be this Cavs roster. I leave you with my closing thoughts on the Spurs. A bit dramatic in retrospect, but that team put me under a spell.
The San Antonio Spurs, not the Miami Heat, are shifting the NBA paradigm, and it will happen more dramatically now. Starting next season you will notice teams dramatically managing minutes and beefing up benches – relying on more than 7 guys to carry the load. You will see significantly less tanking I believe, as fans are going to stop being placated by the pipe dream that their franchise could land the next LeBron or the next Durant. Teams are going to realize that the Spurs perfected basketball with a group of players that, as RC Buford so eloquently stated “got over themselves.” Much like teams in all sports already shy away from guys with off the court issues with the law or drugs or otherwise, franchises are going to say the hell with being held hostage by transcendent Jordan lookalikes leveraging all their power to maximize their brand. They are going to watch the perfectly predictable failure of the Knicks and the Lakers and make sure to think twice before trading the farm for Melo or tying up half the cap for Kobe!!1 Teams are going to ask themselves how Boris Diaw is so devastatingly effective, and they are going to put a premium on big men that can pass. And more than anything, teams are going to recognize that not only is having a superstar not required to win a championship, it’s not required to entertain the fan base! Has anyone seen anything as beautiful, riveting, and pure as what the Spurs just gave us? For far too long we’ve reinforced the narrative that it’s a stars league and no one wants to watch the “boring Spurs”. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point, fueled mostly by the narratives that come to overwhelm the actual gameplay. The Spurs needed no manufactured story to delight us, and we should all voraciously hope they are back next year for an encore – because there’s nothing more entertaining right now that Spurs basketball.
How the Spurs won is just as important as them winning. It’s going to be impossible to ignore this team, this outcome. Impossible to chalk it up to sample size. They defeated both finals favorites, the Thunder and the Heat, dispatching the MVP and the former MVP in succession. Dispatching the hyper-athletic teams doling out max contracts.
Maybe you don’t need superstars to win a championship. Maybe you become a superteam when you master basketball and the accolades follow. Maybe you draft for fit 9 times out of 10 and “best player available” 1 time out of 10, because draftees are simply young boys with the tools to play basketball, not professional basketball players. Maybe that’s the inception the Spurs just completed.
uh…1 out of 7 loses to 2 out of 4 every time I run the numbers. The spurs have yet to show they can beat a fully healthy heat or okc team, and were fortunate to get out of the first round to a better matchup. This is mostly reactionary bull butter. I’ll take the a healthy Heat over this past year’s spurs every time. I know I’m late to the party and this was an awesome thread to read, but I am friggin psyched to see David Blatt’s first couple of weeks during the regular season. Talk about having… Read more »
I just can’t see the Spurs making the finals three years in a row in the brutal Western Conference. No team manages their minutes better, but you’d think these long runs the past two years will have an affect on them at the end of this upcoming season. I actually think this could be the year the Clippers win the West. A Clippers/Cavs finals would be as entertaining as basketball can get. I’m also not that worried that the team doesn’t have a legit rim protector. Miami won a title with Joel Anthony playing significant minutes. This Cavs team should… Read more »
This has been a fantastic thread. And if you do a word search you won’t even find the word “tank” and I don’t know if you’d find the term “OKC model.” A year ago that’s all this debate would have been about. Tank. Get your star player. etc.
There, I’ve just ruined this fantastic thread.
Glad you are enjoying it, Underdog!
tom couldn’t agree with you more—as a high school coach of 25 yrs—-THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAY IS A WIDE OPEN BACKDOOR CUT/ PASS FOR A LAYUP—A THING OF BEAUTY—-believe with blatt’s style of play/ offense we will see more of that this year –lebrn / (hopefully love / Anderson / kyrie / dion / all have a great basketball i.q and are very good passers —looking forward to being ” entertained “
Gregg Easterbrook (who is an incredible writer) threw this into his Tuesday Morning Quarterback (TMQ) today: Team Basketball Trounces AAU Basketball: TMQ contends the most exciting play in basketball is not the slam dunk or the long 3 but the layup — because layups don’t happen without team play. Team play is the essence of college basketball, but is disdained in much of the NBA, where look-at-me dominates and guaranteed contracts allow players to ignore coaches. Thus your columnist was thrilled as San Antonio blew Miami off the court in the NBA Finals using team basketball. When the Spurs were… Read more »
Except that the Heat were leading the league in passes per possession for a good while last year. The Heat and the Spurs both played effecient pass first type of basketball.
Yup.
This narrative building about the Spurs is getting ridiculous. Like was said above, where was the respect for the Spurs system for the five years they couldn’t get out of the West? Where is the recognition of the six teams that ran a more efficient offense last year?
It’s lazy narrative building and way too much of it is being done by people who didn’t tune into the NBA until the Finals (not Tom, but Easterbrook).
The point is the Surs didn’t stop in the playoffs. The heat did
I am trying to understand the fixation on THIS YEAR’s Spurs. The same Spurs team lost to Miami last year, the team that is apparently the ultimate “AAU team” and that, according to TMQ, doesn’t run plays. Is the argument that the Spurs themselves changed this year and are now a new, super Spurs team that plays a new version of team ball never before played? If so, how could the Cavs possibly replicate the Spurs model in a reasonable time-frame when it took the Spurs themselves 14 years of stability to achieve it? I know I may come as… Read more »
Every year is different. Every team is different. This year’s Spurs team was beautiful. Would they have won it if Ibaka didn’t get hurt? Some luck is involved in winning a championship. There is no one way of getting to the top. It’s a process of maximization. What I mean by that is, Blatt says that his system changes to maximize the talent of his players. You have to make the most of the hand that you are dealt. The Spurs had a talented team of veteran players with astronomical basketball IQ’s and could shoot.. They played that hand and… Read more »
You are correct. My problem is that the Heat generated article after article about how they had a beautiful passing first efficient offense. Until the Finals when the Spurs were incredible. The Spurs didn’t win becuase they passed more or because they had players that took big pay cuts, they won because they had the best team at the time. A team that was built like every other champion over the last 50 years.
The same way the Heat were assembled and the same way the Cavs are being assembled.
If you think the Heat and the Spurs were “assembled” the same way I don’t think you know what the world “assembled” means.
Draft, trades and free agency? Big stars taking pay cuts to polay together? Both teams did these things.
Hot Sauce – I think part of it is a long overdue praise that now pours effusively due to a perfect storm of outcomes. 1.) Even as the Spurs perfected their offense it was thought that they were boring. This year’s team shattered that narrative. You just could not watch them and come away unamazed. 2.) Even as the Spurs reeled off 60 win seasons it was thought that they were not built for a deep playoff run. A couple first round exists and high-profile losses to athletic teams (like the Thunder) fed into that idea. A nice team, but… Read more »
The undoing of the Heat was Wade becoming mortal. The Spurs have 3 HOF in their lineup. That makes them far from a scrappy AAU team.
Calling LeBron a me-first AAU player who doesn’t run a play pretty much invalidates any point Easterbrook might make after. I’ve been as big a LeBron critic as there is and I know that’s a ridiculous assertion. The Heat fell apart in the finals but not cause they ran isos or failed to get guys layups. The Heat fell apart because Brttier was done, Wade didn’t have it, Chalmers stunk, and they didn’t have the depth to overcome those issues, then it snowballed.
Yep. Easterbrook has been getting pummelled by websites for his crappy NFL colulmns that come out every fall. He’s know to try to fit the facts to the narrative that he wants to write. So he cherry picks and generally makes stuff up so his column can be neat and tidy. He’s really really bad at this. I think Deadspin deconstructs his articles usually because they fall apart the moment you look deeper into them.
As a Spurs fan, I’m still baffled why the Cavs wouldn’t have kept Wiggins and signed Love as a free agent. That seems like the most prudent move. Show some patience for one year and dominate the NBA for the next 4 years.
Or we could just dominate right now by getting Love a year early. Nothing wrong with doing that.
Given next year’s projected cap room (or lack thereof) doubtful Cavs could outbid other viable teams for Love’s services. Sure he wants to play for a winner, but he also wants a max deal wherever he winds up. Trading for him now is the only way Cavs get the right to pay him more than anyone else.
Yep. We got Kevin Love and CtB refused to see the genius of the offseason. We now have the best team in the East for quite some time.
most important thing to steal from the spurs is “POP’S ” intelligent / almost stubborn usage of regular season minutes for all players , I believe this is what has really helped them come playoff time. Hot Sauce you are right on with your comments –believe cavs have developed a ” totally new hybrid/ concept style “–with the veteran acquisitions this should allow our young talent ( Powell / Harriss ) to develop without rushing / )—truly believe if this happens Powell could replace Bennett and Harriss could replace karasev —haywood’s contract could replace Zyler . Also waiters can become… Read more »
Lovely work man. I am a big fan of the spurs too. I think you are shortchanging them on their individual talent a bit, as Tim and Parker are both max contract guys taking discounts, and Kawhi is probably going to be there soon. But yes, watching those tribute videos is crazy. They pass up on soooooo many truly decent looks that no other team/player would do. There are so many times where they are driving to the rim or semi-open on the perimeter and pass it up for a completely wide open look from 3 or at the rim.… Read more »
Also, playing all your best players 30 minutes or less a night is a lot easier when they’ve all been in your system for a decade. This is a luxury the cavs aren’t really going to be afforded anytime soon.
I enjoyed Tom’s Spurspective in this article, but what I found I came away with is my dominant internal mantra these days “Yeah…but this is Cleveland.” I’m all for building a dynasty (who isn’t), but what gets lost in all of the storylines of prodigal sons returning, amazing luck with ping-pong balls, endless debates about overwhelming Love vs. overwhelming potential, is the fact that “yeah…but this is Cleveland,” where this year marks a miserable half century since ANY TEAM has won ANYTHING. Stop and think about that. Think about how long 50 years really is. I know I have, and… Read more »
I’m with you EvilGenius – I just don’t want the Cavs impatience to preclude you from that single sip of water in the sweltering desert heat. This year might not be the year even with Love. So then you need to improve upon your team. A guy like Dion Waiters could go a long way to being that x-factor that could put you over the top in a game, or a series. An impatient move would be to say “Waiters doesn’t fit” right now and jettisoning him for another Mike Miller type. There’s no question that Wiggins/Bennett/Pick for Love makes… Read more »
The Cavs moves are win now and win later. Trading for a 25 year old star and signing a 22 year old star means there will be plenty left for when the 29 year old super duper star retires. But even that isn’t for another 5-10 years.
Planning beyond 3-5 years in the NBA is hogwash anyways. So maximize the 3-5 year window while not doing anything jeopardize the longer term outlook is exactly what these Cavs have done.
The strongest indication that Dion will be around (at least for this next season) is LBJ’s own endorsement of him, his chip on his shoulder and his game. Maybe that changes by the trade deadline, but for the immediate future it seems like he’ll be on the team. Aside from LBJ (and maybe Dellavedova), Dion is the only viable perimeter defender on the team (assuming Wiggins is already gone). He may still wind up being this era’s Ron Harper (not the immediate fit they hope for who gets traded away for a big man) but unless there’s some amazing rim-protector… Read more »
Nice points, but Dion has a long way to go to get to average on D, let alone Harper’s level (Harper might be crippled by today’s hand check rules, I’ll concede.) Defensive intelligence, finishing, and free throw shooting are Waiters’ three biggest areas he needs to improve.
Building on Hot Sauce’s point I also think the “Spurs are a superstar-less team” is a false narrative. While Pop’s great coaching has helped many players thrive and play above expectations you’d be remiss to gloss over the fact that Duncan, Parker and Leonard played like superstars last year and Manu played at SMotY levels. Leonard ranked above Paul George, Russell Westbrook (although he had a short season) and Joakim Noah in WS/48. Duncan’s per 36 numbers are roughly what they’ve been for his entire HoF career and he remains an excellent rim protector who rarely fouls. Also, Tony Parker… Read more »
Yeah “stars” and “superstars” are subjective. Obviously, Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, and now Leonard have strong individual resumes to go along with all the accolades they get from the Spurs success. I just don’t think anyone puts them on the same level as LeBron, Durant, Westbrook, CP3, Dirk. You know, the guys they disposed of in the playoffs. If we’re talking about narrative busting, I think the Spurs bust the narrative that you need a superstar in his prime and another bona-fide all-star flanking him to win a title. On paper, you would not take the Spurs top 2 players (who… Read more »
Great point and completely agreed. It also says something that the team to give the Spurs the biggest run for their money in the post-season was the similarly constructed Mavs. Ugh the 2009 “Rashard Lewis PED Buzzsaw” was the most frustrating buzzsaw.
The Spurs did not dispose of star-laden teams (Kobe/Gasol, Garnett/Pierce/Allen, Wade/LBJ won in those years) in 6 of the past 7 years. They disposed of them this year due to an insane stretch of shooting. Its romantic to think that another team can replicate that success and do it every year, but I think you are overweighting one stretch of tremendous basketball relative to years of data that tell a different story. In fact, its quite possible that if Ibaka was not hurt, the Spurs lose in the conference finals this year to OKC’s “star model” And, I assume that… Read more »
Agreed. Once again it needs to be pointed out that Love and Irving are young. LeBron isn’t exactly old. We get prime LeBron for 3-5 more years? Prime Love for 5 years, prime Irving for the next 5 and maybe 10 years? That’s a recipe for long-term success.
How were the Spurs built?
1. Drafting
2. Free Agency
3. Trades
How were the Cavs built?
1. Drafting
2. Free Agency
3. Trades
Great stuff, and I am 100% behind your point about what the Spurs’ victory means to basketball. This is a TEAM sport and assembling the best TEAM, however it may look, should be goal #1. The Spurs can adapt to virtually any in-game scenario and have a roster built for long/short term success and flexibility. For all the talent that was assembled in Miami, I would almost argue their 2-for-4 record was a bit of a let down from initial expectations, at least based on the WAY they won and lost. Not every team can acquire their stud player(s). Every… Read more »
I don’t think this is true. The Heat also assembled a TEAM and played like a TEAM. It just so happened that the Spurs were on fire for games 3-5 and could’ve swept the Heat.
In 2012-2013, the Heat played like TEAM and beat the Spurs.
Holy cow. This really has become the Cavs emo blog.
There’s no reason not to be super optimistic about this team for the next 5 years. They’ve got a Big 3 to rival the Spurs Big 3. It’s going to be a cakewalk to the Finals. They’ll probably win a title this very year.
I don’t think anyone is NOT optimistic about the Cavs’ outlook for the future. But a lot of us recognize we have the potential to field one of the 5 greatest players ever on what could be one of the greatest teams of all time. Championships don’t come easy — there will be a slim margin for error — and I think the pessimism actually stems from the fact that Cavs fans are fantasizing what the maximum potential for this current squad could be. Threepeat? More? We’re making history and we all wanna see Cleveland be great as they can… Read more »
“But for decades the superstars were born out of championships. The mantra today is that championships are born out of superstars” I couldn’t agree more. I’ve commented on this blog before about the “chicken or egg” comparison in which I’ve asked do players win titles because they are superstars or are they superstars because they’ve won? I believe the latter to be truer. Just about every team has a player or two that you could make a case for as a “top 10-15” talent, especially in today’s analytics-driven NBA where you can sift through various obscure stats to support a… Read more »
Throwing away Tyler Zeller? That move allowed us cap room to sign Mike Miller, and a guy named LeBron James.
Obviously if it had to be done then yes you trade Zeller but most of us think that the Cavs rushed that and there was no need to throw Zeller in that trade and not get picks back. If we Just traded Jack and a pick to dump Jack we easily could have gotten protected 1st round picks back for Karasev and especially Zeller
Or, he was completely necessary to complete the trade. I’m pretty sure the Cavs front office is smart enough to know if they need or don’t need to throw in Zeller.
No one bats 1.000 . The Griffin era c
Cavs have some head scratchers. Gee/Hopson for Powell is one
The Rockets dumped Lin for alot less.
@Nate: the primary consideration of that trade was the acquisition of Brendan Haywood’s 10 million 2015 non-guaranteed contract.
Very true. And also lost in all this- in search of “the next Jordan” for the quick fix title- people conveniently forget that it took Jordan himself six years to become a champion. Additionally, if you think about it, Jordan’s Bulls are closer to Duncan’s Spurs than they are to a superstar team. They had Jordan and Pippen anchoring the program (as Duncan, Parker, and Manu do for the Spurs)….and over time, surrounded them with cheap, effective role players to play “the Bulls way.” They transitioned at center from Bill Cartwright, to Will Purdue, to Luc Longley. The rebounding force… Read more »
That’s some great bbal history knowledge right there. I think it has been a problem that NBA stars continue to live in Jordan’s shadow. People are too focused on the ring count and as a result the LeBron Jameses of the world seek out quick fix titles. If rings were all that mattered, Russell would be unanimous GOAT. It’s about how you win them, and LeBron has at least in part demonstrated that awareness by coming back to CLE. Winning one for the Cavs would be one of the great accomplishments for an NBA star ever.
Eh. People massively underrated Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman. Rodman’s a hall of famer, and Grant was an all-star and four time all defense second team. The Bulls had a “big 3” in each champion ship. Harper, and Toni Kukoc were also plus level players. The offenses the bulls had allowed them to add value shooters that didn’t have to be primary ball handlers too. For all the criticism of Reinsdorf, he really did a great job of adding pieces with low draft picks, foreigners, and free agent values. Many of the the Spurs best front office traits were copied… Read more »
Eh to your Eh. Horace Grant was an all-star the way Luol Deng was an all-star….excelling in a defined role on a strong team. Harper was a mere plus wing defender at the point in his career that he caught on with the Bulls. Kukoc was a typical European wing- great ball skills for his size, good range, poor D. The Bulls overall scheme covered for his flaws. After he left Chicago, he sucked ass for six years. These guys all excelled within the system- much like the Boris Diaws and Jeff Greens of the modern day Spurs. Don’t get… Read more »
You say “overrated,” I say unique. Dude was an integral part of possibly the greatest NBA team in history. plus 5 rings 2 dpoys. Twice third team all nba. 5 times first team all defense. Outside of Rodman we mostly agree that Bulls got superior performance out of average to below average talent. Rodman
and Grant were good to great on multiple teams.
Rodman was one of the 30 best to play the game
And Rodman is still alive and doing enough crazy stuff to get in the news. Not long ago he won a traditional “wife carrying” contest somewhere in Scandinavia, but I think he got disqualified because the marriage was a sham.
I remember, in the 1990’s, thinking he had no chance of seeing 2000.
I like your point about “the Big Three.” It really is kind of a silly distinction. Its not like you need 3 truly great players to win. I think what you need is at least one true star, plus multiple other very good players. Ideally you would have 2 stars (Jordan/Pippen, Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Gasol, Garnett/Pierce, LBJ/Wade, etc.), but you could also have 3 really good guys, etc. To me, the new Cavs team is not great because its a “Big Three.” Its great because it has LBJ and Love, plus some really great young talent, plus some vets, plus some picks,… Read more »
I’m not judging the moves as good or bad, HotSauce. Acting hastily doesn’t mean incorrectly. I get the whole strike while the iron is hot mentality and obviously it’s possible that the Cavs needed to dump those contracts immediately as some sort of requisite for LeBron to come home. I just don’t want the Cavs to go all Leeeeeroooooooy aaahJAAAAANKins on the season. Expectations need to be tempered. A team with Championship or Bust aspirations is going to react to a short term shortcoming (say Waiters chemistry with Lebron/Irving) by shooting themselves in the foot in the long run. I… Read more »
“I just want to see an organization dedicated to the pursuit of basketball optimization, not the pursuit of regular season wins.”
Agree wholeheartedly with this. I think, given LBJ’s age, we want to really have a 6-7 year vision. From what I see, I think we do. I really like the vibe of the organization with the Blatt hire, Griff, etc. I don’t see any of the moves as win-now. I see them as build a team that can be elite for the next 6-7 years.
“I just want to see an organization dedicated to the pursuit of basketball optimization”
Beautifully put — it takes an amount of luck to win an NBA title, and frankly, the cards could fall in a way that prevents the Cavs from EVER winning a title. Just because 29 teams each year do not win the title does not mean 29 teams had unsuccessful seasons. Sport is art, and creating the “optimized” product night by night, year by year over the next decade should be at the core of what all fans desire.
Pretty much agree. Some related points: 1. A major part of the “Superstar thing” is the league and TV marketing. When the NBA popularity was down, the league responded by doubling down on the “market superstars” theory that had worked well with Larry and Magic. Recall the brief effort to pass Larry Johnson off as the new superstar. LJ turned out to be lame, but along came an exciting MJ. MJ caused the rules to changed more than Wilt did, but in the other direction. They lessened Wilts effectiveness by widening the 3 sec. zone, etc. For MJ, they allowed… Read more »
It’s easy to overreact to the most recent thing in sports. The Spurs were incredible in the Finals, and now everyone is saying the “Spurs way” is the best way. But let’s remember that since winning the 2007 Finals against our poor, over-matched Cavs, the Spurs – in the age of Parker + Ginobli + Old Man Duncan + Deep deep bench – have been to 7 straight post-seasons and lost twice in the first round, once in the second round, and have just the one Championship. That is a great run, no doubt, but their model has had its… Read more »
Yep. Hot Sauce for the win!!11!!
Couldn’t agree more. Nice job in the comments section as usual Hot Sauce. I think we need to start our own podcast ha
Podcast name: “Hold the Hot Sauce”
In a hat tip the CTB guys, though, it is certainly easier to comment on CTB’s good work than it would be to actually write our own posts and do podcasts. The job of commenter is quite plush.
Pretty much agree. The exact makeup of any highly successful team cannot be reproduced. But you can do similar things. A run with LeBron in a more Duncan like role (as opposed to doing everything like his first go round with the Cavs) could last a long time, and the pieces are pretty much in place. We argued at great length here about if Love or Wiggins+Bennett was the better route, and pretty much everyone exaggerated their position (which is what most people do when you get arguing). I don’t think it is obvious which way is better. I was… Read more »
I think that was the thrust of most fans against the Love deal. If Lebron doesn’t push a championship you could see a pretty solid young core surrounding 2 stars (with 2 others in the making). Each year they could have added another key piece and been in a good position to compete for a championship in 3 years. But we all assume Lebron is falling off or leaving within 4 years so there is a rush to win right now. I agree with Rodney, the Cavs aren’t in the same position as the Heat. They still have some young… Read more »
People do get that as a max guy Kyrie projects to be an automatic 30% of Cao for the life of his extension.
However if he gets 30% of the $60 million cap plus his raises, he would be at 18 million to 23 million. If the cap skyrockets to over $100 million in 2 years, Kyrie would only be making 18 to 23% of the cap because they do not calculate the salary for the players based on the cap for the current year but on the year the deal was signed. Otherwise the players with a max contract would actually take a hit if the salary cap went down.
Here’s the thing, the cavs only look like the heat because they have Lebron. In reality they are much closer to a Spurs/Thunder hybrid. The Thunder with a healthy Ibaka would have been a much tougher out then the heat and the big 1.75. Lebron Love and Irving set up age wise much like the Spurs. Where their primes will be offset and be able to carry each other and teach each other through different points in their Careers. Love Lebron and Irving are much more like the Thunder in that they fit together better then the heat ever did.… Read more »