Links to the Present: Reality Edition
2014-06-02
Kirk over at Waitingfornextyear.com has a great piece up right now about the Cavs choices in the draft and potential coaching candidates. This part really resonated:
This draft has been too highly regarded compared against those of the last four years. The team control and cost-friendly contract is too much of a favorable situation. The potential for doing the rebuild the right way with more than one legitimate All-Star is too much to sacrifice. There are two pieces that are quite untouchable on this team now: Kyrie Irving and the No. 1 pick in this draft.
There is no legitimate reason to think Irving or the number one is being traded even if this is being tweeted:
#Cavs have fielded a couple calls about Kyrie Irving, league sources say. Given talk of max extensions, not surprising teams willing to ask.
— Sam Amico (@SamAmicoFSO) May 31, 2014
There has been a lot of talk that the Cavs will not offer Kyrie Irving a max extension. Bob Finnan at The News-Herald & The Morning Journal is one of many people saying this.
Many are worried Irving will bolt the first chance he gets. This would have been a vehicle to lock him up for possibly an additional five years.
Scuttlebutt around the league about the reason they wouldn’t make the offer is two-fold. First, the Cavs are not convinced he’s truly a max player.
The second reason is that “he may not want to be in Cleveland.” This is a load of malarkey. The Cavs will most likely make Kyrie a max offer because that’s what history says happens in situations like this. I’m not sure it’s the smartest thing, so if the team defies past extension traditions for him, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
Mary Schmitt Boyer at The Plain Dealer responded to several questions in her email column this week about Kyrie being traded for a pick in the draft along with another player from the the Bucks or 76ers.
With all due respect gentlemen, I’m not sure how any of these deals would allow the Cavaliers to get ”radically better much quicker” as general manager David Griffin has stated as their goal. I don’t think the goal is to win the draft, which all these deals would allow them to do. But at what expense and to what end? Would you really trade Kyrie Irving, a two-time All-Star and the reigning All-Star MVP, the best player the Cavs have had since LeBron James left — and more — for an unproven 20-year-old who just finished his third year of organized basketball and is coming off back surgery? Antetokounmpo certainly isn’t going to pick up that slack. I don’t know how good Joel Embiid is going to be. I don’t think anybody really does at this point, although there are plenty of experts singing his praises. But given how long Cavs fans have been waiting for a return to respectability, I just don’t think continually adding youngsters who will take a few years to develop — if they develop — is the way to go unless you want to wait another three to five years to make the playoffs. When and if they decide to trade Irving — and I wouldn’t put too much stock in current rumors about whether they’re not going to offer him the max or he’s not going to accept it — I think they can get much much more for him.
There is no player in the draft that is going to bring the same immediate value Kyrie brings to the team. And that player’s learning curve would put the 8th seed out of reach. No thanks. Steer towards the playoffs playoffs, or immense off-season depression will commence.
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Since Kyrie is probably going to be staying, the team should start thinking about finding a stopper to put next to him on defense. Thabo Sefolosha didn’t get much run in the conference finals because his offense is lacking, but regardless of a slow shot/often just bad shot, he can lock players down. His future is uncertain according to his own quotes. James Herbert at CBSsports.com has some of Thabo’s quotes collected for your reading pleasure. He only averaged 6.3 points per game to go with 3.6 rebounds, but the team would sign him mainly for defense.
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Justin Rowan of Fear the Sword counters that the best free agent shooting guard on the market might just be the the Cavs own unrestricted free agent, @Masfresco. In Justin’s analysis of the available free agent shooting guards, he notes C.J.’s 53.7 eFG%, and his underrated defense.
Cavs opposition has a ORtg of 105.5 when he [C.J. Miles] is on the court compared to 108.6 when he is on the bench. He is probably the best defender on the ball the Cavs had prior to the trade for Deng but can lose his man when he doesn’t have the ball. While Miles isn’t exactly a playmaker, he does cycle the ball well on the perimeter. Miles is also capable of playing both at the SG and SF positions, which is obviously a huge asset given the lack of depth the Cavs have had over the years at SF.
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Chris Fedor of the Northeast Ohio Media Group has an article up about the four coaches the Cavs have interviewed so far. Tyronn Lue is looking to be in the lead for the position right now. Lue has been an assistant under Doc Rivers for the past five years. The search seems to be far from over, as every Cavs fan has heard of numerous other candidates for the job.
We have to clear space on our roster so that we can land a star in free agency to go along with KI and Wiggins/Embid. I think Luol Deng will leave for sure anyways and we should let CJ Miles go. I think Spencer Hawes is relatively young and a solid starter so we shoudl resign him about to about 8 Million a year. We could trade Andy, Zeller, Bennett, Felix, Delledova, etc. for cap space. That would clear up roughly 20-25 Million in cap space enough for Lebron (not going to happen but I’ll indulge myself) or 2 borderline… Read more »
We have to clear space on our roster so that we can land a star in free agency to go along with KI and Wiggins/Embid. I think Luol Deng will leave for sure anyways and we should let CJ Miles go. I think Spencer Hawes is relatively young and a solid starter so we shoudl resign him about to about 8 Million a year. We could trade Andy, Zeller, Bennett, Felix, Delledova, etc. for cap space to go along with all that we already have in cap space. That would clear up roughly 20-25 Million in cap space enough for… Read more »
If we trade the the first pick for Kevin Love, Lamarcus Aldridge, or Joakim Noah I will become a Miami Heat fan, considering Love will leave after one season and most likely the others too. There are two ways we can be go with this pick that leads to a championship, the 10% we get Lebron route or our own Big 3 through free agency. LEBRON: For Lebron we can let go Luol Deng and CJ Miles, draft a big man, Joel Embid, be paying him, Kyrie Irving, and Dion Waiters their rookie salaries. We would have a great PG,… Read more »
@ Raoul, THIS!!!! “There is actually a much bigger unknown factor with draft picks. All those guys might have who knows what problems once you get them.” This is the reason the proposed trades I’m reading on here for Kyrie are absurd in my opinion. If the Bucks called and offered us the #2 pick and Giannis, I wouldn’t be able to hang up fast enough. Likewise, if the Sixers offered us the #3 and #10. We have a KNOWN ALL-STAR commodity who is only 22 YEARS OLD. I’m not arguing that he doesn’t have warts…he most certainly does. But… Read more »
There’s so little new draft information that we’re throwing out hypothetical Kyrie trade scenarios. Shit Chad Ford has ripped a tweet in four days.
Kyrie to Orlando for the 4th pick and Tobias Harris.
The issue with any project trade is: Is it a good trade? And you cannot be sure, because you cannot predict the future. KI’s future could go a lot of ways. So far he appears to be on a trajectory of being a high stat guy who never wins anything. There are plenty of them out there. Best case is, he signs with the Cavs and has a mental transformation like Danny Green did (after being cut twice) and kicks it into a much higher level of play. He could still become a top 5 or top 3 player. Worse… Read more »
As much as I like Kyrie, I don’t consider him a transcendent talent or even close. Yes, he’s a 2 time all-star (partially because Rondo and Rose were hurt), but his ultra-poor defense, mediocre distribution and continued lack of leadership… combined with his frequent injury issues and lack of significant development etc. IF trading him could bring us a guy like Wiggins/Embiid who both MAY be transcendent players but certainly should at minimum be very good NBA players, then I think giving up your best player today for somone who can be a leader in the league in a couple… Read more »
Anyone listen to Jason Lloyd’s podcast yesterday? He’s sticking with Parker as the prediction for the number 1 pick. Personally I’m happy with any of the top three. I’m leaning towards Embiid. I talked myself out of all of the centers we’ve passed on leading up to their respective drafts, but JoJo’s been the most intriguing one, hard to say no to. Anyways, I try not to fall too in love with any one player because it’s hard enough for the experts to project what these guys will be. Fans let their imaginations run wild around the draft and go… Read more »
Agreed, Chunk. AB15 might have more value as an expiring contract than as a player, right now. You have to commit to developing him if you want to get anything out of that pick, and that includes spending time in the D-League again next year.
Why is everybody in such a hurry to trade AB15? His value couldn’t be lower right now. Let the kid develop with a new coach and see what we get in a couple years.
Ross Gumdrop, Only in NBA2K14 is Kyrie a great player. In reality he was barely the best player (andy and TT were both close) on a 33 win team against an incredibly weak schedule. I’m not saying we’re trading him or that we should, but if you could get a top 3 guy in this draft and another youngin, you’d be crazy not to at least consider it.
I agree Ross, the Kyrie trades are just nonsense, we don’t let a potential MVP player leave, talent doesn’t come by that easily. Especially here. We should make good out of what we have. Which is an understatement, I’d still rather have Kyrie than a bunch of role players…When was the last time a starless team won the ring? (And no, the Pistons had stars, Ben and Rasheed and Billups were all all stars for a reason)Kyrie is still young give him some time. If we give up on him now,how do you expect him to ever develop into the… Read more »
Why don’t all you guys who think that trading Kyrie is a good idea go back to playing NBA2K14 where I’m sure deals like trading your team’s best player for a lottery pick can actually work to building a virtual contender. Here in the real world we call that stupidity.
I am a big fan of Antetokounmpo, but I’m not trading KI for him no matter what else I get. I like Kemba, MKG was almost a CAV once, but didn’t pan out to well. If one of those first rounders was this years 7th (or is it 9th) pick, I would think long and hard about it. Cause we could use that and Bennett or Jack and maybe move up. Maybe even into the top three again. (Unlikely) If I’m trading Kyrie, even though I don’t think I would, I’m looking for a proven SF/SG. Dion could man the… Read more »
Would you guys consider trading Irving for Kemba, MKG, and 2 first round picks?
Slightly disagree with kojo. IF the back looks OK, Embiid has to be the pick.
There has been this goofy theory that big men don’t dominate in the NBA anymore. Sez who? How many times has Tim Duncan gone to the finals? Since he has been in the league, who is in second place for most final appearances? Playoff games? (Can someone crunch the numbers?) If there is a 25% chance that Embiid can be the next dominating big man you have to go for it.
Nupe, the only way Im doing it is for Giannis Antekouhhhh ….. That dude is going to be a BALLER in this league. If we traded Rie for the #2 and Giannis and ran out a starting 5 of ? Waiters Wiggins Antekuompo Embiid Is a line up that will win for such a long time in the near future and be exciting as piss to watch until they get there. or throw in Thompson/Bennett and go with a big lineup Obivously maybe Thompson would start but that is such a beautiful lineup with soooo much potential. We’d have to… Read more »
Ok I do not agree with Gordon though that Embiid HAS to be the pick. I’d totally get it and be excited if he was a Cav. I definitely see a role for Wiggins on this team too. One of those two has to be the pick … Parker, meh.
Well snap, I agree with Gordon. There is a top tier a 2nd tier and then a 3rd tier. Parker is the 2nd tier. We draft him first we are sacrificing waaaay to much to win now.
Kyrie for a top 3 pick and a player – i’d do it. Move waiters to run the point with Wiggins at sf/st and embiid in the middle. That’s a defensively strong team right there and if we keep hawes as a stretch 4 at times or if Bennett performs as expexted that could be a strong team. Add sefolosha we arguably have a top 10 defense. A good offfensive system to taake advantage of waiters penetration and hawsestretching floor and embiib pick roll potential. I could see us as a better than average offense year 1. This doesn’t mention… Read more »
@ grover
I think Wiggins could be the pick too because at worst, he’ll be an All-Defensive team SG/SF which can help on defense.
I agree that Embiid is the better fit though. I believe that if all three players reach their full potential, Embiid makes this team better than the other two.
Agree with Gordon….I continue to believe that if the Cavs intend to keep Kyrie, then Embiid almost HAS to be the pick, to cover for KI’s defensive shortcomings.
If trading Kyrie is part of the plan….then Parker can be in play.
I’m not advocating one strategy over the other….but agree that KI and Parker cannot share the court together, for defensive reasons.
@ Rosscoach Drafting Parker would be a death sentence for our title chances. Whether we ever win one or even get to a conference final with Kyrie here is unknown, but to pair a terrible defensive PG with a terrible defense SF would spell disaster for this team. Especially considering TT and AV would be your starting 4/5, one of which should not be a starter and the other is aging and injury plagued. Parker is very talented and might help us score more right now, but 1-2 years down the road he won’t be the best pick for this… Read more »
Um, Jabari Parker anyone?! Parker is the obvious answer here. We all know about his talents but mostly he puts the Cavs in a win-win situation. He helps them immediately to compete for a playoff spot today while giving them additional star power that brings their roster talent up to the likes of just about any other team in the league. Signing a Thabo Sefolosha would be great to bring in defensive minded players to compliment so many offensive minded ones is a good move. The most important move however may be the resigning of Spencer Hawes who spaces the… Read more »
For as hyped as this draft has been over the past few seasons there hasn’t been much content nationally since the lottery other than the Embiid and Parker workouts. Things should heat up in the next week or so.