4th of July LeBron Thoughts
2010-07-04
So apparently LeBron won’t make his decision tomorrow. That’s fine by me, because it’s Fourth of July Weekend and I had pre-existing plans to enjoy it. Here are some quick thoughts on the situation as it currently stands:
-Hornets are adamant that they won’t move Chris Paul. Raptors are apparently not interested in a sign-and-trade with Bosh. If a move like that doesn’t happen, I don’t see how Cleveland has enough talent to entice LeBron to stay. It would be a remarkable display of loyalty, and I think it remains a legitimate possibility.
-LeBron + Amare + D’Antoni would be a killer pick-and-roll offense. Too bad that team has so many gaping holes. No point guard, Gallinari can’t guard twos, no center, no draft picks, an out-and-out mess. He might get sucked in by that pitch, but I think he’d be much better staying with Cleveland and the solid structure they have in place. By the way “Carmelo and Tony Parker are coming next year” sounded to me like another argument against letting players come into the pros from high school. Be more gullible, dude.
-Man, that was stupid money Joe Johnson got. He’s a second banana, and not even a great one. We have known this for many years. Unbelievable.
-That’s all for now; treat this as an open free agency thread, and I’ll do my best to be on it if any major developments occur.
Rich, Colangelo’s not going to admit that he gave Hedo a horrible contract. I know Hedo said he wanted a trade, but Colangelo probably realizes that’s not going to happen because the contract is so bad. So of course he’s going to say that…he just might not think it.
I’m stunned. Listened to a Colangelo interview and he honestly said he doesn’t want to trade Hedo. Don’t even know where to begin, but that might be the single dumbest thing he’s ever said in his life, the other close one was “Here’s your contract, Hedo.” If he seriously wants to hang onto Hedo..he should be fired on the spot.
I haven’t flipped on ESPN today because I know they keep trying to talk up the Knicks from the dead. Somehow, they think the Knicks have the cap space to sign 3 max players and then tony Paker………………..I guess according to Broussard the Knicks get to play be special rules or something.
So, it’s been twitter all day..and good lordo, it’s nuts.
Windy’s Twitter feed went from 14,000 one week ago to 26,000 now. It’s crazy. Social media eruption.
Or, you wouldn’t happen to be the guy at RCF who just talked to the guy who writes for RaptorsRepublic? Has to be one or the other since you just echoed him word for word.
Malefax…you wouldn’t happen to write for RaptorsRepublic do you?? :)
Man, I love this. Twitter just flying. Gilbert having dinner with Chris Paul. LBJ headed to Miami for the 5th time. Amare recruiting LBJ to New York. Nike reps leak info. So much fun to watch “reporters” pick this shit up and run with it.
I just can’t see the value Bosh would command that would get me to give up Noah on his rookie contract….maybe if Noah was in the middle of a bigger deal, then yes. But as is, Noah gives you a better player dollar for dollar than Bosh.
Toronto would dream of the day that someone comes and offer to take Hedo off of their hands. The guy is owed 12 mil a season from now until forever. He had a below average PER. I repeat, a guy getting paid 12mil+ is a below average player. That contract is simply right up there with brand for worst in the league. Obviously if the Bulls move Noah that would give their deal value, but then again I ask does that make sense? Do you give up Noah jsut for Bosh…when isntead you could keep Noah and add Lee/Boozer? I… Read more »
Mind you, the Bulls are very reluctant to give up Noah, and they might well say no to a S&T with toronto if Colangelo insists on him being included.
Joakim Noah is the asset the Bulls have. He is very desirable. i can’t think of anything off the top of my head that Cleveland has that is similarly tempting. Varejao has some value, I guess, but Noah is more tempting.
Also, I don’t think that Toronto really wants to get rid of Hedo. Their plan is not at all to tank. They might trade Hedo for a peice that is a better fit (better defender or younger being the two main things), but their plan is to add talent, not to send it away.
Also, neither Miami nor Chicago is in a position to take on Hedo…that’s the real asset that the Cavs have that no1 else does.
And just for comparison’s sake…is it equal value for Bosh, no. But please, tell me what exactly Miami/CHI could give up that beats what the Cavs can offer?
I dont know if we are dealing with Bulls or Toronto fans here….but if you think a team would rather have Amir Johnson at 7 million a year instead of Hickson on his rookie contract..well, keep believing that.
What exactly are all these assets that the Cavs have and that the Raptors would want? And before someone gives some lame answer, let me save you time ….there is no good answer. No team looking to rebuild will be enamored with JJ Hickson and a washed up Jamison and Varejao for 4 years.
Any chance the big three all go/stay home? Lebron – CLE Wade – Chi Bosh – Houston. I think it could happen, and it would make things intersting. If it does the Cavs would be on of the two best in the east if they can pick up a decent center. If they somehow managed a true PG or good SG on top, I beleive they could win it all next year!
What assets, exacly, does CLE have that TOR wants? J.J. HIckson isn’t necessary for TOR now, as they just resigned Amir Johnson and drafted Ed Davis. CLE has no legit centers aside from Ilgauskas under Contract
So, that leaves the Bulls going after, I would think, David Lee. Pretty sure Lee + Noah > Bosh.
Dude, I’ve been saying Houston for weeks. I’ve been agreeing with you. I thought, for a split second, there was a chance all three would team up in Miami. I didn’t realize that Bosh was seriously more concerned with the 6th year than winning. So, I waivered for a bit. But i’ve been back on the Bosh to Houston bandwagon for a while. Now, Chicago COULD give up Noah..and then that changes everything. Except, then you are left with a Bulls team that doesn’ have Noah, and has a front court that will get ABUSED by the Celts, Magic, and… Read more »
@rich i’ve been saying that about bosh for three straight days but you keep acting like it’s a surprise every time is re-iterated by some media person. i also have said for 3 straight days that bosh is left with houston or us. period!!! do you and krolik read my posts? am i persona non grata? am i bruce willis in the “sixth sense??” sheesh… to all reading this: BOSH WANTS A MAX DEAL. CAN ONLY GET MAX DEAL THROUGH S&T WITH TORONTO AND SOME OTHER TEAM! MIAMI AND CHI. DO NOT HAVE ASSETS TORONTO WANTS! CLE AND HOUSTON DO!… Read more »
Anyone who thinks a team – including the Wizards – will take on Shaq at $21 million a year is out of their mind.
Well good news imo. TJ Zuppe reporting Bosh just isn’t going anywhere w/o that 6 year deal in a SnT. Raptors, knowing this, are going to be demanding noah in return. Which, imo, means Bosh to Chicago is dead. Chicago would be better off keeping noah and getting Boozer or Lee…easily. This means A. Bosh and wade aren’t teaming up in chicago, and even better, Bosh is left with CLE and Houston as his option. Frankly, I’m fine with either. If he doesn’t want to come here, let him go out there and make the Rockets the biggest threat to… Read more »
We all know that the only reason that Andy can’t guard Dwight is that he’s too top-heavy, he just gets pushed over. And we all know what he could do about that. Time to break out the scissors.
Actually Shaq did a great job on Dwight during the regular season.. We all remember what Dwight did to Andy against Orlando in the conference finals. Even Perkins can contain Dwight better than Andy. I think Haywood would be a HUGE pickup.
ROFLcopters Jacob, Eyenga is crap. Heck, we could get more for Kaun’s rights. And Mo is pretty much worth his contract, so he IS an asset.
HoopsDogg, neither Mo and Jamison are good values relative to their contracts. Neither of them would be enticing to Toronto in a sign-and-trade for Bosh.
Toronto would want young, cheap assets, of which the Cavs have two: Eyenga and Hickson.
Andy can’t defend Dwight all by himself? Who can? That’s a dopey analogy. Anyway, the Cavs aren’t getting Paul. That’s that. Did you see the offer Portland gave them? There’s no way the Cavs can top Pryzbilla, Miller, and Batum. If he gets traded, he’s going to Portland. These are the moves the Cavs should make: #1 Anthony Morrow full MLE while the Warriors are still in turmoil. Go after Mike Miller or Ray Allen as a 2nd choice. Sign and trade Shaq for Hayward or Okafor (or even Chris Kaman)… Some serviceable center. Twist Toronto’s arm and offer Mo,… Read more »
I couldn’t agree more with Rich and jcashtro. Cavs have the deepest, most balanced roster of any team wooing Lebron. Their main problem is that they lack a true 2nd banana, but they do have much better role players, and a much deeper bench. Their team is built to play with Lebron. Chi has Rose, but Noah and Deng are no better than Varejao and Williams, and the rest of their roster is embarassing. Miami has NO ONE, and the Knicks and Nets are a disaster. If Chi can get Bosh or Wade then I they have the best team… Read more »
Rich I agree with You 100%. I was discussing this with one of my boys (avid bulls fan). Imo, bulls have youngest core, Miami best front office ( with Pat, Cavs aside), new jersey most mysterious (Russian billionaire and Jay-Z), but Cavs have best team top to bottom. He couldn’t disagree. No team is without some lacking area, but Cavs have best composite (proven good front office, best team (bench included). It’ll be interesting to see if Wade leaves Miami for Chicago, because he has had by far the least amount of support from a player personnel perspective. That may… Read more »
That’s not a bad picture there, Jacob. But do you really think Andy can be a true STARTING center? I love andy, but I think he’s shown he can’t defend Dwight by himself. Guys like Dwight, Noah, and Bynum are only getting better. If you asked me who I’d want for a backup center on that roster..I think i’d take Powe over Z.
Krolik, I can’t really believe you’re buying into this notion that the Cavs have no talent. As of today, they still have more talent than any other team going after LeBron.
This would be the Cavs’ roster after those trades (league requires a minimum of 13 players on your roster: PG: Chris Paul SG: Gilbert Arenas SF: Lebron James PF: Antawn Jamison C: Anderson Varajao Bench Okafor or Stojakovic Mid-level-exception FA Daniel Gibson Jamario Moon Leon Powe Danny Green Ilgauskas? Jawad? That’s a great 9-10 man depth chart, with much clearer, more consistent roles than last year. I think these surrounding upgrades would be enough to convince Lebron to re-sign. I also think this is a dramatically improved team. By taking on an enormous increase in future salary, becoming a $100M… Read more »
Blatche then potentially becomes the piece that makes Chris Paul “touchable”. Cavs then propose two trades: 26.48, 24.3 Trade #1: Blatche ($3.3M), Hickson ($1.5M), Mo Williams ($9.3M), Christian Eyenga, and a future No. 1 pick for Chris Paul ($14.9M). Or: Trade #2: The same parts in Trade #1 plus the expiring contracts of Delonte West, Sebastian Telfair and Anthony Parker ($10.2M) for Paul and Emeka Okafor, who is $11.5M in ’10-’11 and a whopping $52M over the next four years, one of the worst contracts in the game. Okafor is clearly just a straight salary dump in this one, the… Read more »
Why the Shaq-for-Arenas/Blatche deal works: *It matches up salary-wise, which is necessary because the Cavs are over the cap. *Cavs would really help their case to woo James if they added impact talent. *The Cavs would become the highest payroll team in the league, near $100M…but, if re-signing Lebron James is a ~$250M windfall in franchise value, it’s worth. *The Wizards would be thrilled to unload more than $60M in future salary commitments. *The Wiz would only owe Shaq $13.6M in 2010-11, thanks to the salary payments being deferred 30% (this is the max amount of salary that can be… Read more »
Cavs should utilize Shaq in a sign-and-trade to add talent.
Swallow the worst contract in the game, Gilbert Arenas’ 4-year, $80M deal, to add a young impact player.
Here’s how it works:
Cavs re-sign Shaq to a one-year, $21M deal with 30% of the money deferred and immediately trade him to Washington for Arenas ($17.7M) and Andray Blatche ($3.3M).
Supposedly, the Knicks aren’t ruling out keeping Lee and going with an Amare-Lee frontcourt.
I am PRAYING that scenario plays out. Can you imagine the numbers opposing frontcourts would put up against them? I can only imagine the first time they play a team like LA. Kobe might take 5 shots the whole game (which is hard for him to do) while watching Pau and Bynum put up 40-20… each.
I will laugh my ass off if it happens because Knicks fans will be wondering how their team can still suck even with Amare.
I think Stoudemire’s better too, but not by much…and you made an interesting argument for Lee actually being better. At any rate, the Knicks didn’t add Stoudemire. They added Stoudemire minus Lee, which isn’t a whole lot, if anything at all to a lottery team. I don’t get the big deal ESPN is making out of it. I like James right now, still like him if he stayed in Cleveland but, of course, I’d love him if he came to Chicago. But yeah, if he goes to NY, that blows my entire image of him. Anyway,I gotta go to sleep…good… Read more »
We can agree on that. I would hate LeBron (just what I have to do) if he leaves Cleveland. But I would totally not even respect him as basketball player if he goes to new York. The absolute worst shot out of all the teams going after him at actually winning a title. It will show that basketball is second on his mind behind other things. Also, didn’t even think about the David Lee thing. If they pay Stoudemire 100 million…could they not have paid David Lee 80 million, and would that not have been a better overall deal? I… Read more »
We can agree on that. ESPN’s coverage has been more about drawing interest (and making money) than honest reporting. I think the whole LeBron to NY thing is a joke. But they keep pushing it. I’d be shocked and disappointed if he went there. I’d be okay if he stayed in Cleveland. I wouldn’t blame him at all for doing that. But NY? Ugh. They picked up a past his prime Stoudemire and suddenly he’s a big draw? Even when he’s only replacing a pretty good player in David Lee? Seems like a marginal upgrade, but they’re making it seem… Read more »
To get onto something else though, this is why ESPN is becoming a joke. On the TV ticker at the bottom of the screen, they are running a story on the Knick/Leon Rose meeting. In it, it says the Knicks went back to meet with Rose to let him know about the contract offer to Amare Stoudemire and how he will accept it, blah blah blah. Well, on ESPN.com, Chad Ford has just written on article using Donnie Walsh as a source, that, in fact, they haven’t offered Amare a contract and he hasn’t accepted one obviously. Really ESPN? You… Read more »
Eh..my responses aren’t posting. No, I don’t think the Bulls have a better roster…not gonna type it all out for the 5th time to not have it post.
Or look at this way…do you not think if Cleveland could have Rose, Noah, Gibson, and Deng that they wouldn’t take that in a heartbeat? Do you not think that if you found out tomorrow that your team acquired Derrick Rose alone that you would suddenly be feeling a lot better about your chances? What if you also got Noah and Gibson, both good defenders/rebounders who could give the Lakers big front line some problems? Do you not think that would increase your chances for a title? Of course it would. If Cleveland had Rose and Noah, their fans wouldn’t… Read more »
W/e dude. Neither of us is going to budge on this.
All of the games weren’t close. Game 1 wasn’t close, game 3 wasn’t close, and in the end a 5 game series isn’t close. 4-1…it just isn’t close.
I would also like to throw out there that we had a terrible freaking coach. This year, Hickson is going to look like a stud and suddenly Noah being this young core player that the Cavs don’t have is going to vanish. He just didn’t get the time he should have gotten under Brown.
The Bulls lost a lot of games when Noah was out for an extended period and also when he returned but was only able to play very limited minutes. Before then they were a 6th seed vying for the 5th seed. With Noah they were much better than an 8th seed as Cleveland found out last year. The Bulls seemed a player away from besting the Cavs in that series. All games but one were close. That was hardly a “beatdown”. A first seed should have been able to easily dispatch an 8th seed. But that wasn’t the case. And… Read more »
I just think you’re wrong. We don’t know that for sure, but I think this Cavs team w/o LeBron is an 8th seed. I mean, the Bulls were a single game away from being a lottery team last year..so if the Cavs miss out on the playoffs by a game or two, is there really any difference? How about when the Cavs were in Chicago, in a MUST WIN game for the Bulls, and the Cavs were sitting LBJ and Shaq. You won by ONE POINT. But yet your proof that your using a 4-1 beatdown in the playoffs? Look,… Read more »
If you don’t think there’s a difference, imagine the Cavs without LeBron. They’re almost certainly a lottery team. We don’t have to imagine the Bulls without LeBron. They’ve been a pretty good team the past 6 years, making the playoffs– including last year with the same guys you are so quick to disparage. We saw what happens to the Cavs when LeBron has an off night. They lose. Rose, Noah, Deng et al have already shown they are capable of winning on their own. Rose alone gives LeBron the kind of support he never had. He would be LeBron’s “Pippen”.… Read more »
I just seriously think that Bulls roster is being way over-rated. Somehow, Deng has now become some valuable piece to be desired. Guy is soft, injury prone, can’t stretch the defense like a SF needs to be able to do. Noah……I’m done killing Noah. The guy is a nice role player. He will always be a role player .He will never be a back to back all-star or anything close. Rose is the one big time player. I’m not saying LeBron on the Bulls wouldn’t be a good team, it would. But so is LeBron on the Cavs. But People… Read more »
Want to reiterate that I believe he’ll sign with Cleveland. I just don’t buy the reasons he supposedly wouldnt sign with the Bulls. I think if it were purely a basketball decision, he’d probably pick the Bulls — but things aren’t that simple. I think after all is said and done, he’ll stay with Cleveland. Obviously I’d love to have him on the Bulls, but if he doesn’t sign with them I hope he stays home. If he falls for that NY hard sell, I’ll be really disappointed.
Sure he played well off the ball, but in the triangle offense he frequently had the ball in his hands throughout the possession. He doesn’t have to be designated a “point forward” to prove he frequently played with the ball in his hands. And shooters are easy and relatively cheap to acquire. The Bulls will get one. But really you don’t need a 3 point shooter in a major role to have a good team. They are complimentary players. That aspect is overblown.
Jordan was not a point forward he played very well off the ball. Lebron rose deng pack the paint who’s stretching that defense?
Pippen and Jordan were both players who needed to play with the ball. Moreover Ron Harper and Toni Kukoc also preferred to play with the ball in their hands. Unselfish players always work that out. That’s not a problem. I do think in the end that James stays in Cleveland but I think it’ll be out of loyalty. It won’t be because he’s afraid to play for Reinsdorf or share the ball with Rose.
Hans – why does lebron want to play with derrick rose? They both need the ball to be effective and neither can post up. Doesn’t make sense. If they get bosh or wade then LBJ’s legacy is that he may have won rings while playing on an allstar team. If he’s not going to nyc with bosh I don’t see him leaving Cleveland
Dan Gilbert has 250 million dollars to lose. He may not have won anything yet but I have a hard time believing he will let lebron walk. I think he’s staying. Now, they need to get Andre iguodala and start showtime 2.0.
You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. But you’re just regugitating the myths brought perpetuated by the media…so I suppose that’s to be expected. It’s not like you have some insight. It’s just the same misinformed parroting we hear all the time. We know that Reinsdorf kept the core of the Bulls for a decade…6 of which resulted in championships. LeBron can’t ask for anything more than that. He’d take the situation Jordan, Pippen and others went through in a heartbeat. Do you honestly think James would say, “I’m not going to join the Bulls because they built… Read more »
Rich: You said that Reinsdorf never paid a luxury tax for Jordan. There was no luxury tax in the NBA when Jordan played for the Bulls. Jordan retired from the Bulls in ’98. The luxury tax didn’t come into being until the ’02-’03 season. The reason you were saying that Reinsdorf never paid a luxury tax for Jordan was to indicate that he wasn’t willing to get extravagant to pay his players. In ’96-’97, when there was no luxury tax and no max salary, Reinsdorf paid Jordan $30 million. The salary cap that year was $27 million. In ’98-’99, Reinsdorf… Read more »
with the cavs getting byron scott one of lebron’s favorite coaches and probaly getting a really good mid level exception like somebody among the terms of ray allan, lebron is probaly leaning towards staying so as a cavs fan i’m not that worried.
Agree Malefax. I don’t think Luol Deng and his insaneo contract fall into the category of pieces he wants, though.
Hey, being loyal to guys after they’ve played for you is great. But oyu are asking LeBron and Wade and Bosh and whoever to take Reinsdorf at his word…and not on his actions. Fact is he has never been in the luxury tax at any point. He was at the helm when Jordan and Pippen bolted. We can say he isn’t cheap, and maybe he isn’t. But how, with your future on the line, can you simply ignore what has happenedi n the past? Maybe it is a misconception, much like the idea that Cleveland is a god awful place… Read more »
I wouldn’t take the reporting that toronto wn’t S&T Bosh too seriously. It seems pretty likely it is a smokescreen/statement of intent from Colangelo. Colangelo only has leverage for getting assets out of other owners in a sign and trade insofar as he can credibly threaten to say ‘no’ and let Bosh walk for nothing. And he certainly isn’t going to make things easy for, say, Chicago to sign 2 max players by, say, taking Deng off their hands. But I have no doubt that if Bosh wants to go somewhere and the team offers pieces Colangelo really wants, he… Read more »
It was Krause who broke up the team. Reinsdorf is a pretty loyal guy. His biggest mistake was to trust Krause too much. Reinsdorf believed Krause had the Bulls best interest in mind. Turned out that Krause had his own ego in mind in trying to prove he was some sort of genius and not someone who lucked into Michael Jordan. I think James and others will find that the Bulls take care of their ex-players better than most teams…From Paxson to Pete Meyers to Scottie Pippen to, yes, even Michael Jordan (with whom agent David Falk said Reinsdorf had… Read more »
What really sucks is I would hate to see most of the current roster moved…Guys have character… Z, Mo, Andy, Hotsauce, Moon, even the Big Aristotle. James straight up QUIT on us during Game 5.
On an unrelated matter, ESPN is fully suffering diarrhea of the pen more than EVER. Jeez, it’s unreal.
Toronto seems to want to do a SnT, but the teams Bosh wants to go to have zip to offer i nthe way of value. Why do a SnT with the Heat? For What..Mario Chalmers? I mean, Bosh either opens up his mind about where he goes..or he walks. Because if he absolutely must go to Chi or Miami, then it isn’t like Toronto is losing out anyway, when all they can get back is pointless trade exceptions (yes, when your team is in shambles and you only have horrid contracts..trade exceptions suck) and bad players. Might as well let… Read more »
If TOR doesn’t want to S&T, Bosh will walk and they get screwed. Same with Paul and NOR. It seems Paul wants back with Byron Scott, and this is some serious, serious optimism here,but I get the feeling like Lebron knows of the possibilty of insane harsh retribution from Clevelanders,and may just be waiting for Paul or Bosh to come to HIM.
And just for the idea that if LeBron were staying he’d have already done it…lets remember Tom Izzo. He took a LONG time to say what..he was staying. These guys like the show…all of them. They like the attention and they like the drama. They like their names being on TV and in the newspapers all of the time.
Joseph, the problem is and will be with reisndorf. People seriously can’t look past that man and the impact he can have on someone signing there. The team as you lay it out looks awesome right? Of course it does. But, Noah is a restricted FA next year…the Bulls will be right at the cap. Reinsdorf has never, ever, went into the luxury tax. He didn’t do it for Jordan and Pippen. What makes anyone out there in this world think he will do it for Joakim Noah? Rose is a restricted FA the following year, and the same question… Read more »
You know it seems ironic that if ‘Bron really had his heart completely set on staying, he would have made the announcement. But of course you need to see through all your options. I say Cleveland or Chi-town would fit best for him. New York? That was a joke. It is now down to staying home..probably a less than 50% chance of winning it all… Or Chicago.. With stars Rose and Noah, plus a possibility of Bosh OR Wade? He shouldn’t have made so many ties to this city.
The longer it takes for the Bulls/Heat to get a commitment from someone..the more and more likely it is LeBron stays in CLE. I expect a decision from Wade come tommorow, and I expect him to firmly announce he’s staying in Miami. Hopefully, then, that means they start heading towards Amare/Boozer..which then means LeBron would have to leave Cleveland and go all alone to Chicago. These are my dreams. Also, we need Bosh to stand very strong on his desire to get a SnT. SO long as that happens, his only real options are A. Cle. or B. Houston. Bosh… Read more »
I think at this point everyone needs to step back and wait for some dominoes to fall. There’s no way any team can rule out sign and trades because packages and situations can alway change. I still have a lot of hope for lebron and the cavs.
Well, now the supposed meeting for tonight..and wednesday, is not happening. This is insane, I need to step away form the computer screen so I can get off of these emotional highs and lows.
Wow, for the first time in a while im truly worried. LeBron meeting with Knicks tonight, and some speculation he’s headed to visit NY on Wednesday. If he seriously chooses New York over ANYWHERE else..we all know it’s because basketball was second on his mind.