The MVP vote is all but official, and by all accounts it appears that LeBron James, in his third season of being the best player in the NBA, is going to win his first MVP award at age 24. For some reason, I’m almost strangely unfufilled by this. I think this is because the award has been completely tainted by the past few horrible selections; almost every MVP has come with a caveat-here are mine in the LeBron era:
1. Steve Nash, part one: I really thought this should have been Shaq at the time, although revisionist history tells us we were really underestimating Wade. Then again, if you’re the best player on a team as good as the Suns this year and can’t crack the playoffs, you probably never deserved an MVP.
2. Steve Nash, part deux: Maybe the worst MVP vote in history. Somehow people only talk about how Kobe got robbed this year when LeBron had better all-around numbers, more wins, similarly terrible teammates, and more actual MVP votes.
3. Dirk Nowitzki: This was a pretty meh year for individual performances overall, so they just went with the best player on the best team. Ironically, if Nash hadn’t won an MVP before this was probably the year he deserved one.
4. Kobe Bryant: James had the best all-around numbers of anyone and carried a god-awful team, Paul had better numbers than Kobe and carried a clearly inferior team right to the top of the West, but Kobe’s one extra win was the excuse voters needed to give him a lifetime achievement award.
And yet the books will show LeBron’s season as being equal to everyone else’s. I dream of a unanimous vote, (although there will always be, ahem, complications) or at least an asterisk in the books that says “was actually the best player in the league.”
Basically, I’ve become so used to arguing passionately that LeBron was the best player in the league this time of year I have leftover righteous anger now that LeBron has had a good enough year to just power right through all the circular logic and political crap that has kept him from winning the award before.
So I’m going to use my righteous anger to make the case that LeBron deserves very, very serious consideration for the defensive player of the year award like no player since Duncan took home the award.
1. Clause one: The politics of being a “great defender”
The statistics that track defense, like in all sports, are nowhere near as good as the statistics that track offense, for the simple reason offensive players are measured by doing things and defensive players should be measured by their ability to keep things from happening. So defenders, especially on the perimeter, end up getting judged by reputation rather than actual merit, especially great offensive players. On the flip side, a bad defensive reputation can dog a player for years.
Here’s something to chew on: LeBron James was a really, really, really, really good defender last year. In the past two playoffs, Cleveland has overacheived their record because of its ability to play absolutely stifling defense, and a lot of that is because LeBron gets unleashed at the defensive end. Last year in the playoffs, Cleveland defended as well as any team in the league, and LeBron absolutely shut down Paul Pierce for six out of seven games before Pierce went on to light up the Lakers for a Finals MVP award. And yet it was Kobe who taught LeBron how to play defense this off-season. Of course. Never forget how much we in the media love a good storyline.
LeBron didn’t have a magical epiphany. We replaced Larry Hughes’ miserable and overrated perimeter defense with Delonte West’s great on-ball defense, freeing up LeBron to roam and recover for the first three quarters. We were good enough offensively so that LeBron could expend more energy at that end. Andy and Ben showed up healthy and in-shape, allowing LeBron to trust his help more. Nate McMillan, coach of the 14th-best defensive team in the league, did not show LeBron a magic light. But of course, if we say that, there’s a more poetic reason to give LeBron the MVP this year than the fact he has much better teammates, which people just hate to acknowledge.
Part 2: The Numbers
But LeBron’s DPOY campaign is a lot more than reputation or storylines. There’s a solid case to be made based on numbers, numbers that don’t care what LeBron’s name is. Unlike some great all-around players who coast on their reputations for 35 minutes a night, play some tough D for the final 5 minutes of the game, and occasionally make flashy defensive plays and get rewarded with all-defense selections, LeBron’s defensive accomplishments show up in metrics that, while far from perfect, have none of the bias you’d expect when you’re talking about a nebulous quality from one of the game’s biggest names. So we’re going to get nitty-gritty and break this thing down. Here are my candidates, both real contenders and “control” names who are in the race on reputation, for defensive player of the year:
Dwight Howard
Kevin Garnett (hurt for too much time to actually recieve award)
LeBron James
Kobe Bryant
Wade
Shane Battier (see note regarding Garnett)
Now here, in decending order, are the factors I put into trying to determine a DPOY:
1. Team Defense (Measured In Defensive Efficiency)
Oddly, the idea of “best player on the best defensive team” being the DPOY is much less accepted than the “best player on the best team” being the MVP, even though it’s much, much easier to attain team-independent value with statistics than it is to attain team-independent defensive value with statistics. Basically, all the statistics after this one can flat-out tell a false story much more easily than offensive statistics can be similarly manipulated, but you can’t fake having a great defensive team. I use pace-independent efficiency per 100 possessions instead of raw points or opponent’s field goal percentage, which actually hurts LeBron since the Cavs play at an extremely slow pace. Here are those rankings:
1. Howard (ORL): 99.1 (1st overall)
2. Garnett (BOS): 99.1 (2nd)
3. James (CLE): 99.2 (3rd)
4. Battier (HOU): 101.4 (4th)
5. Bryant (LAL): 101.7 (5th)
6. Wade (MIA): 104.8 (13th)
Note how there’s essentially a three-way tie for first place among the league’s three defensive teams and then a fairly significant gap; with KG missing significant time, I see this as essentially a two-way race between Howard and James. Also notice how bad Wade’s team is defensively for him to be in this discussion; with all the intangibles involved in playing defense, Wade’s in this discussion despite a middling defensive team, and his supporting cast isn’t nearly as miserable defensively as they are offensively. Moon/Marion are a composite good defender, Chalmers has defended well at the point, Haslem isn’t a liability, and JON is solid on the back-line. As comical as the Wade for MVP argument is/was, the Wade for DPOY or even all-defensive 1st time argument is exponentially more ridiculous.
I love all the logical backflips that have been made to stick Wade in the “best player” discussion with nobody mentioning the one credential that really puts him in it: in the biggest games of his life, he had maybe the best NBA finals ever and absolutely carried an overmatched team to a ring. However, the “big-game player” caveat is reserved for Bryant, whose best resume mark in that regard is being the second-best player on a juggernaut championship team 7 years ago. Please, media, stop making me dislike Wade.
2. Defensive +/- Rating
Again, this is far from perfect and has a lurking variable in the “bad backup” caveat, but it comes as close to any individual number to capturing all the intangible things that go into playing defense. When we use it for players who play on good defensive teams, we can get good ideas of who’s doing what-that the Grizzlies go from horrible to almost decent defensively when Hakim Warrick replaced Rudy Gay doesn’t mean much for Warrick, but if a guy has a high +/- on a great defensive team, that means something.
1. LeBron James: -7.3 (the Cavs gave up 7.3 less points per 100 possessions with James on the court)
2. Kevin Garnett: -6.3
3. Dwyane Wade: -3.8
4. Shane Battier: -1.9
5. Dwight Howard: -1.5
6. Kobe Bryant: +.9
Garnett and James sticking out so far in this category is explainable on one level: their backups are primarily Wally Sczerbiak and Leon Powe/Glen Davis, none of whom are very strong defensively. Still, the facts that two of the three best defensive teams in the league go from the bottom half of the league defensively to the top of the league when they’re on and off the floor is a huge point in their favor, and is a reason I still belive KG is the league’s best defensive player when going 100%.
Battier and Bryant’s relatively low scores can be explained by the opposit phenomenon: they generally split time with Ron Artest and Trevor Ariza, two absolutely phenominal defenders. Still, in the case of Bryant, it’s hard to argue for him as an all-defensive player when he hasn’t the best perimeter defender on his own team on a night in/night out basis. Howard’s relatively low score is somewhat of a mystery to me, but one I ultimately attribute to noise considering how high he scores on other metrics.
3. Opponent’s PER
This one is more significant for perimeter players, and has a huge caveat to it as well: good defenders will often as not draw tougher assignments than bad defenders, and hence will have higher opponent PERs than they rightfully should. Still, when used in conjuction with defensive +/- and the next metric I’ll use, it can be very valuable. (League-Average PER is 15, single-digit players should not be in a rotation)
1. LeBron James: 10.3 (Opponent PER)
2. Dwyane Wade: 12.2
3. Shane Battier: 12.6
4. Kevin Garnett: 13.5
5. Dwight Howard: 13.9
6. Kobe Bryant: 14.0
It’s apples and oranges to compare this rating for perimeter players and big men, as big men are mainly responsible for help defense rather than locking one man down. Another thing you look for when comparing in perimeter players if if there’s a “leak” in the other perimeter defender on the team.
To explain: generally, small forwards and shooting guards are more or less interchangeable defensively, so often instead of defending “by position” they divide it up among which player is more talented. If one swingman has a low opponent’s PER and his partner has an abnormally high one, as often as not the player with a low opponent’s PER is guarding an inferior player and leaving his partner on an island as he goes around and gambles. For LeBron, Kobe, and Artest their swingman partners (West, Artest, and Odom/Ariza) have opp. PERs lower than 15; for Wade, both Marion and Moon, good defenders, have opp. PERs higher than 17, which support’s my thesis that there’s a “leak” in Wade’s low opponent’s PER.
4. Blocks/Steals
Obvious problems here; as stated, defense is the art of keeping things from happening, so tracking things defensive players make happen is beyond the point. Still, a block often prevents a basket and a steal results in the end of a possession, so it’s foolish to presume they have no merit. I’m no engineer, so I simply added together our candidate’s blocks and steals.
1. Dwight Howard: 304
2. Dwyane Wade: 279
3. LeBron James: 230
4. Kobe Bryant: 155
5. Kevin Garnett: 131
6. Shane Battier: 99
We expected Howard to be the king here, and Wade’s help-side numbers are simply staggering-however, it’s clear a lack of discipline and unwillingness to take tough assignments are leaving holes in that defense, although if there wasn’t that low team metric I’d be more than impressed with how Wade is shaking out here. I’d need to pull an Arnovitz to tell you what’s going on exactly, but there are holes that shouldn’t be there in Wade’s team’s defense. Erik Spolestra has done a wonderful job over there, but in the off-season this team needs to drill some rotations. There’s a pretty clear gap in the guys who are impact weak-side defenders and the guys who aren’t, although KG’s and Battier’s missed time hurts them here as well.
5. Defensive Rebound Rate
People can argue about if rebounds should go into a DPOY conversation, but in my mind a defensive rebound is necessary to finish a defensive possession. Here, I went by rebound rate and took each player relative to their position, with tiebreakers or close calls going to the bigger men-a good rebounding center is more valuable than a good rebounding guard on the boards.
1. Dwight Howard: 29.4 DRR, 3rd among centers
2. Kevin Garnett: 26.7 DRR, 6th among power forwards
3. LeBron James: 19.0 DRR, 3rd among small forwards
4. Kobe Bryant: 12.8 DRR, 13th among shooting guards
5. Dwyane Wade: 12.3 DRR, 19th among shooting guards
6. Shane Battier: NR among shooting guards (I don’t get insider)
Pretty self-explanatory here; the for-postition adjustment ended up being unnecessary. I gave KG the bump over James because they’re close and LBJ spends time at the 4 while KG does not spend time at the 3.
6. Defensive Rating and Win Shares
I give these extremely little value because I don’t understand them, and apparently would have to buy a book to have them explained to me. However, they interest me because there are no PER-esque catch-all defensive metrics, and those are reputation-independent. With these, I give a point in favor if they do well on them but don’t take away if they do badly-basically, they’re extra credit.
Defensive Rating:
1. Dwight Howard: 94.8 (1st overall)
2. Kevin Garnett: 97.3 (2nd overall)
3. LeBron James: 99.0 (3rd overall)
4. Kobe Bryant: 105.0 (NR)
5. Dwyane Wade: 105.0 (NR)
6. Shane Battier: 105.0 (NR, I’m pretty sure this isn’t a mistake that they’re all the same)
Defensive Win Shares:
1. Dwight Howard: 7.5 (1st overall)
2. LeBron James: 6.4 (2nd overall)
3. Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant: 4.2 (T-17th overall)
4. Kevin Garnett: 4.1 (19th overall)
5. Shane Battier: 2.9 (NR)
Again, I’m not sure what really to make of these; they appear to mainly rely on blocks, steals, team defense, and minutes played ( the latter only for WS.)
What you should take away from this:
LeBron James is head and shoulders above the other perimeter MVP candidates in nearly every defensive category I had listed, and it’s tough to get away putting him as one of the three best defenders in the NBA-as he is on offense, his all-around game excellence is evident in these metrics.
I probably should have included Paul in here-he’d do well on these.
The toughest judgement call you have is Wade vs. Battier on the defensive end.
Part 3: Beyond the Statistics
Again, I find it interesting not that LeBron’s not the favorite, but that he’s not in contention for the award, as his arguments for DPOY essentially mirror the “beyond the numbers” type of logical caveats that have kept LeBron from winning the MVP when metrics point his way.
LeBron, critized for having a “one-dimensional” offensive game, has become the league’s most versatile defensive players. He can, and has, guarded the 1 through the 4 effectively. He’s as good of a help-side defender the league has, and he’s as capable of anyone at locking his man down. His leadership is evident; a center is expected to be a defensive anchor, but LeBron has gone above and beyond to not coast on defense but instill a defensive mentality from the small forward position. His chase-down blocks are the most YouTube-able defensive plays this side of LaPhonso Ellis, and have the kind of asthetic sense of wonder long attributed to Kobe’s picture-perfect twisting fadeaway 24-footers that somehow managed to be insane and textbook at the same time. He’s smarter on that end than Howard, and never gets into foul trouble or bites hard. In crunch-time, where most of the offense is simple ISOs or pick-and-rolls, he’s much more valuable shutting down the other team’s money player than Howard is helping. By non-advanced metrics, the Cavaliers appear easily the best defensive team in the league. It’s interesting that he’s not reaping the benefits of the logic that went against him in MVP/”best player” arguments for years on the defensive side of the coin.
Okay, I just wrote 2,700 words on this. Why?
-Because it’s time someone analyzed the DPOY race with the same detail the MVP award is looked at.
-Because LeBron’s defense goes beyond reputation or storylines.
-Because I’m trying to work off playoff terror and years of MVP arguing has broken my brain. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m made it to the 5th and final book of 2666 and I want to finish that thing.
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F*ck Jon Berry. Lebron is clearly the MVP as stated. While Wade has been spectacular this year, he has done nothing Lebron hasnt done his entire career…lead an under-achieving team to the playoffs. And I respect your arguement about Lebron being DPOY, if it wernt for Howard it would probably be a toss up.
Nice column. The DPOY is really only about reputation. LBJ will probably make first team all defense this year, which will put him in contention for future DPOY votes. By the way, Battier’s DRR is 12.8, 35th among SF.
Great column, Krolik! It’s nice to see someone put effort into quantifying the un-quantifiable. While I think Howard will win hands-down, hopefully this will get the attention of some and earn some love for LeBron. I never like to say someone (especially a national media member) has it against our team, but every time I see Jon Barry on TV, he has something negative to say about the Cavs. I noticed the same with Trent Dilfer and the Browns, but he has an excuse since they traded him and there isn’t much positive to say about them.
I agree with Lebron being MVP, however I do not agree with your point that Nash didn’t deserve his MVP, esp. his first one. The 2004-2005 Suns added Nash and Richardson, the major additions. They went from 29 wins in 2003-2004 to 62 wins in 2004-2005! That’s a 33 game improvement! Are you saying Quentin freaking Richardson helped propel the Suns to first in the NBA? However, i agree that Nash probably did not deserve his second MVP.
The problem that arises with that, Davy, is that Nash had significantly better numbers his second year of getting the MVP. While I don’t agree with either of his wins, the voting media members pretty much had their hands tied. How can they give it to him the first year, but not give it to him the second year when he had better numbers and the team was just as good? Media members are too egotistical to admit their mistake.
I thought that Nash’s points went up but assists went down his second year, and the team did significantly worse because they lost Amare. As John said, Nash had his best numbers the year after his 2nd MVP, and that was a great year for the Suns as well. Those years were kind of complicated because it seemed like the best players weren’t on the best teams. I don’t think Nash was a horrible choice, though he probably benefited a lot from the lack of attention to defense that comes with the vagueness of measuring it. His offensive stats may also have been inflated playing for D’Antoni, but he was still virtually perfect on that end. In hindsight, Wade’s playoff dominance makes him look like maybe the biggest MVP snub from those years. But I think LeBron, Kobe, Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, Wade, and Nash were pretty equally deserving those years. This is probably the first year since Garnett’s MVP that there’s been a candidate who clearly separated himself from the pack (although you wouldn’t know it listening to the media).
I love the info in this post. John really covers all the angles in terms of how we best measure defense today while acknowledging the complexity involved. I know he probably wouldn’t want it any longer, but if I had to add something I would throw in a few anecdotes about LeBron’s defense, especially in clutch situations. How many times has LeBron’s defense terrorized opposing coaches into going away from their clear #1 option in crunch time? Two games stand out for me. In the double-foul loss to Indiana, the effective last play of the game was an iso for T.J. Ford with Granger standing as far away from the action as possible so as not to let LeBron help (LeBron also played perfect offense down the stretch in that one). Against Sacramento, I believe LeBron blocked Kevin Martin at the end of regulation, and then the Kings had Will Solomon taking huge shots in overtime.
I’m sure there’s more examples like this, as well as games where opposing teams’ star 3′s were reduced to absolutely pathetic stat lines (off the top of my head I remember Pierce, Granger, and Rudy Gay getting this treatment).
Wow, sorry for writing a book in the comments. One last thought: every ESPN writer who left Chris Paul out of his top 5 needs to be fired.
Overall I found it an interesting ready but you need to avoid alienating readers with obviously biased remarks. First off, Wade being in the MVP discussion comical? Do you watch basketball? There is no doubt he has carried an otherwise AWFUL team further than they should ever go. His PER is right up there with Lebron and CP and in my opinion, and several others I’m sure is as unguardable a perimeter player as there is in this league. Lets see… one credential to put him in any MVP disussion. Thats tough, oh wait he leads the league in points per game. He has far and away the most blocks + steals for a perimeter player. He makes a miserable team mediocre and more than likely better than average come play-off time. He plays within the offense more so than many of the other elite scorers in the game (Kobe, Dirk, Durant, etc.). He, more so than any other player comes closest to Lebrons stats. I am definitely a Lebron for MVP guy but to say Wade shouldn’t be in the discussion is idiotic.
Second I like how you break down each defensive statistic after posting them, simply showing the numbers means little to anyone but stat geeks. But there are some serious flaws in some of your arguments. The most glaring was the +/- stat and Kobe vs Ariza. As a die hard Lakers fan I’ve watched enough games to know the more subtle aspects of this defense. There is no doubt that Kobe is prone to coasting through games at certain times, but similarly when it matter there is no one else I would want on the court down the stretch to get a stop. The main reason for this +.6 difference isn’t related to Ariza’s defensive ability as much as the opponent who he is guarding. Kobe matches up with the premier perimeter threat when he is on the court. When he comes out, often this player does as well leaving a very sound defender in Trevor Ariza on a back-up player. Kobe vs the best, or Ariza vs back-up? I’ll take the latter any day.
If I had to vote for one player it would be a very tough call. But for the same reason you pick Lebron over Howard is the reason I tend to go the other way. There just isn’t a way to define what he does to other teams statistically. Not just altering the shots and help defense, his mere presence on the court dissuades players from driving the ball to the basket. Lebron has the blocks, and the steals, and the ability to close a gap on a player unlike anything I’ve ever seen. However, he doesn’t change the whole game in the same manner that Dwight Howard does. If either got the award I wouldn’t think they were undeserving, but either way someone is going to be slighted.
All-Defensive
Dwight Howard (DPOY)
Lebron
Kobe
Wade
CP
Statistics lie. Particularly those that pretend to evaluate a player’s defensive ability. And, by the way, it’s not very heartening to hear a writer lean on stats that he admits he doesn’t understand. There are a lot of factors that go into figuring out who is a great defensive player, and none of them are reliable. Lebron may have more rebounds at his position, but does this mean he’s a better defender? By the way, what Krolik left out, in pointing out that Lebron “stopped” Paul Pierce in the first six games of their seven-game series last year, is that Paul Pierce stopped Lebron in those six games, too. Lebron shot 35% for the series, and Pierce shot 40%. So, does that make Pierce a better defender than Lebron?
the paragraphs preceeding the “lobbying for Lebron DPOY” make you sound like an idiot. oh i forget Lebron is cleveland’s first superstar in any sport since the calender was switched to A.D.
like one of the commentators said 33 win difference is a pretty good reason to give Nash MVP first time, he was the engine of the team.
as for the second one where “Kobe got robbed”, you said lebron had better numbers, i think you are speaking from a faulty, biased and distant memory, check the stats again kobe was scoring 35+ points, not to mention he set a few records along the way. And yeah about getting to the playoffs kobe took a team with Smush, walton, Kwame as starters to the playoffs in the “WEST”
As for Lebron not getting the award before, consider this Lebron team have never had a 50 win season before this year, and no player in history has had the MVP award on a team with less than 50 wins…and lebron played in East where teams get into the playoffs with less than 0.5 records…so why would lebron win it? because he plays for cleveland…this is the MVP not the pity award….idiot
well AQ, I’m going to try and make this real simple for you.
The Cavaliers won 50 games in both 2005-06 and 2006-07. That’s just a fact. And check the Cavs’ starters from those years.
Yes, Kobe scored 35 points per game. LeBron scored 31 a game and averaged two more assists, and since an assist accounts for two points that evens out. He also averaged more rebounds, assists, less turnovers, more steals, had a higher scoring efficiency, a higher PER, a higher offensive rating and a better defensive rating. This is why I said “all-around” stats.
@GreenPaz-last year, when LeBron had the best all-around stats of any player in the league and carried a miserable team to the playoffs, he was not considered for the award because of a low win total. It would be one level of ridiculous if Wade got serious MVP run for doing the same thing this year. But it goes beyond that; as nice as Wade’s numbers are, they’re clearly inferior to LeBron’s, who also plays for a team with a huge gap. There’s a much better argument for Paul or Bryant than there is for Wade given the criteria established.
WELCOME ALL HATERS!
I’m sure we have The TrueHoop Network Shootaround to thank for all you trolls emerging from your holes to spew some hate. But please – try to bring some knowledge to the discussion, & not some feeble attempt to undermine Krolik’s work or this blog (BTW – The Cavs have won 50 games or more twice in LeBron’s six seasons). Your tired and outdated arguments (have you even looked at the East’s record against the West this year?) undermine everything you have to say – So please – STOP WASTING OUR TIME – and start watching some basketball. Because if you did you might pull your head out of your a** long enough to realize that LeBron James is worth respecting & all your Kobe crying is pointless.
Viva la Cavs!
Where are you from? Is it a secret? :)
Elcoj
I like the haters. All of us who actually watch the Cavs only get to argue about player rotations, defensive rotations, it’s all rotations all the time. :-)
And that’s because watching him play, it’s obvious that LeBron is quite simply the best. You can look at the stats, they usually favor LeBron. You can look at the record, (considering his teammates) this usually favors LeBron. Or you can just watch every game and marvel at the artistry and intensity he brings (especially this year). He does what the greats do. He wills his team to win. Even when he’s off, he finds way to gets his teammates over the top.
So now think about all that he’s accomplished this regular season, and add 6-8 more minutes of playing time per game in the playoffs. And then cry if your team has to play the Cavs.
Welcome to the New World Order. It has a King and his name is LeBron.
And I don’t think John is degrading D-Wade. He’s just saying the argument of a great player who carries their teammates (because they’re not very good) never got LeBron a lot of MVP love before (he’s been doing it for years). But D-Wade is getting it this year in spades. Is D-Wade doing more with less than LeBron has done in years past. I’d say no, but it’s certainly debatable.
At the end of the day, the MVP race is over. And LeBron is the Chosen One.
The only thing left to find out is how this team responds to some adversity in the playoffs. Because whether it’s Boston/Orlando or the Lakers. Some team is going to punch ‘em in the mouth. But I’d rather have LeBron leading my team than anyone else in the NBA.
We’re witnessing the next all-time great. And he’s got a shot to be the best ever.
So if anyone has any doubts about LeBron. Watch every Cavs playoff game and then talk to me.
Viva la Cavs!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/GTAS-comics-MVP-couch-rage?urn=nba,149327
So that’s how the trolls know to come out of their holes!
Krolik, just wanted to say this was a great column, no matter how many words it was. I never saw anyone (even on ESPN) analyze DPOY candidates like this. I bet LeBron would say he couldn’t care less about the individual awards, and just wants to win a championship. Personally though, it would be nice if they didn’t just give it to Howard because he is a master shot blocker.
i need to get my hand on 2666; and still need to finish the savage detectives.
“Then again, if you’re the best player on a team as good as the Suns this year and can’t crack the playoffs, you probably never deserved an MVP.”
Jordan didn’t make the playoffs with the Wizards, apparently this means he didn’t deserve his MVPs from previous years?
First, LeBron is the MVP. He should get every vote. MVP traditionally goes to the best- player-on-the-best-team, and this year should be no different.
Second, Dwight Howard is DPOY. He should get every vote. James has improved significantly, though, and I have no problem with him being on the first-team.
Third, you’re hopeless if you don’t think Wade is worthy of all-defensive first team. The guy has Jordan-like steal+block numbers. But, apparently, the fact that he’s 6’4″ (if that) and in the top fifteen in the league in blocks isn’t enough for you, on top of him being second in steals. All right, how about the fact that he’s SECOND in the league in block shots in the last five minutes of close games? He has a higher block rate than DPOY Dwight Howard in those situations! If you watched the Heat this year which I can tell you rarely do, you would know that Wade has won almost as many games with clutch blocks and steals for the Heat as he has with his offense.
You commit your own “logical backflips” to discredit Wade’s defense. But, the fact that the Heat are a mediocre defensive team apparently, to you, reflects solely on Wade’s individual defense, not the quality of his team. But, hey I’m not surprised that you blame Wade for the Heat’s average D because you seem to credit LeBron solely for the Cavs’ excellent D, once again forgetting that there are five players on the court and not one. And also, you also neglect to mention the fact that the Popovich-schooled Mike Brown is one of the best defensive coaches in the league, and that has more than a little to do with the quality of Cleveland’s D as well.
Fourth, I have no problem with it being “ridiculous” to consider Wade for MVP. The Heat only have 43 wins, and according to the criteria which typically determines the award, it would be ridiculous for him to get it.
But, there are no “logical backflips” involved in putting Wade in the “best player” discussion, which is different than the MVP discussion. He’s in the best player discussion because he has as legitimate an argument to be considered the best player as LeBron or Kobe or anybody else does. He does some things on the basketball court as well as James or Kobe (etc.), some things better, and some things not quite as well. And his playoff resume stands up to that of almost anyone currently playing.
Fifth, since you like numbers so much– here’s a couple numbers that LeBron has to overcome before I’ll concede that he’s been the best player for one year, much less than three: 35% and 6 TOs. Those were James’s numbers in the two biggest playoff series in his life in consecutive years.
So what’s the excuse for that? The supporting cast? The coach? Whatever– 35% shooting is 35% shooting and 6 TOs is 6 TOs.
Nobody expected the Cavs to beat the Spurs, but still those numbers from a superstar are inexcusable, for any reason. But, the Boston series– that one was winnable. Just think, if James hadn’t shot 2/18 in Game 1, the Cavs would have advanced, run through Detroit, and then LeBron would have had a date with Kobe where he would have had a chance to prove that homers like you weren’t EXTREMELY premature in calling him the best player on the planet. So, in conclusion, to paraphrase what you said about Wade above– please, fanboys, stop making me dislike LeBron James.
Easy Raj… easy. You’re toeing the troll line as it seems you’re using one bad game against the Celtics last year & his series against the Spurs in ’07 to argue that LeBron’s not the best player this year. That’s fuzzy troll math my friend. If we all agree to give Wade & Kobe a hug will you continue to like LeBron? It’s important to us.
Hey, TrollKiller, thanks for the reply. I guess I fail to see how replying to an extremely opinionated blog entry makes one a troll. Now if I randomly submitted an anti-Bron screed, then, THAT would undoubtedly constitute trolling. But, your man John published an exigesis which was designed to extol James’s defensive virtues, but also took some very pointed shots at Wade for some reason, and so I felt compelled to respond to it. I do understand that this site is meant to be a haven for Cavs fans to say whatever they want, but Truehoop did link to it, so blame Henry.
As far as your own points, first LeBron, Wade, and Chris Paul all have an argument for best player this year (though only James has an argument for MVP). LBJ was slightly more efficient than either of the other two, but I’d say Wade and CP had to bear a bit more of a burden (yes, I acknowledge that LeBron has been in that situation before).
Second, I hate to tell you, but it wasn’t just one bad game that he had against the Celtics– it was a bad series. In fact, the truth is closer to being that he had ONE GOOD GAME than one bad one. The duel against Pierce is all the media focused on; they completely glossed over his play in the series as a whole.
And let’s face it, if James played better vs. Boston, you guys might be the defending champs already. LeBron has had great playoff performances like the historic Game 5 in Detroit. But, he also has had notable failures like the Spurs and Celts series.
As phenomenal as he has been in the regular season in his career, his postseason record is decidedly mixed. And this is why some of us aren’t ready to concede the NBA to him just yet.
If you aren’t a Cavs fan, why even bother to read this blog? Do you honestly have nothing better to do than antagonize people like this?
So who are you ready to concede the NBA to Raj?
Kobe? Probably. But didn’t he have a “decidedly mixed” series against Boston last year as well?
Oh wait. I know – it’s Wade. The story of him carrying that Heat team to the title in ’06 is just so legendary… How could I forget?
There’s just one little problem with your argument Raj. Neither of these guys has won squat without Shaq. Neither has ever won the title alone, and they’ve each had some bad playoff games in the past.
Wax as poetically as you want about what you perceive as LeBron’s shortcomings in the postseason, but at the very least you have to give him credit for carrying a far inferior Cavs teams to the finals in ’07 followed up by the Cavs giving the Celtics a tougher out than the Lakers did last year.
Before this season LeBron has done more with less than perhaps anyone in the history of the NBA – in the regular season as well as in the playoffs (and yes – more than Kobe’s playoff run with the likes of Smush & the boys). And so that you understand – this is what annoys Cavs fans about your kind of argument. You’re happy to dig up his shortcomings but unwilling to concede that LeBron – no matter what parts of his game are still developing, be it his post-up game our mid-range jumper – is on pace to exceed the loftiest expectations that have ever placed upon an athlete. The kid is delivering at an unbelievable pace, and he’s getting better every freaking game. He’s in his sixth season Raj. He’s 24 years old. Until this season he’s never had a real running mate and an offensive system that didn’t allow an opposing team’s defense to load up & play five against him. So you’ll have to forgive me if I’m willing to look past the handful of postseason games he wasn’t able to deliver, especially considering all the ones he was.
So give us & Krolik a break with your hypercritical and, with all due respect, skewed argument. Krolik was correct in calling the MVP love Wade received this season comical. It was (see Barry, John). LeBron put up as good, if not better, numbers last season and wasn’t even close to winning the MVP due to the Cavs record. But this season, because of the run Wade had from February through March some in the media tried to throw out the reality of the MVP vote – which, let’s be honest worked beautifully with their “Wade is back and healthy and ready to prove he’s the best player in the world because everyone wrote him off” storyline that started in the Olympics. How was Krolik calling this out or Wade’s gambling on defense “pointed”?
And finally, what will it take for you to acknowledge just how spectacular and singular a talent LeBron James is? One title? Two titles? Seven? Twelve? Will you give him bonus points if he wins one without Shaq? Does he have to play a perfect playoff game every time out for you to be satisfied?
Just curious.
@ trollkiller, you can’t just call everyone who doesnt support LeBron a troll. At least make your debate with them involve some semblance of logical thought. Otherwise its just demeaning to the rest of us Cavs fans who arent too narrow-minded to acknowledge that there are players in the league not named LeBron.
I never said that Furious… Maybe you should have reread what I wrote before running off on your tangent. Because, you know, that’s what trolls do. And pray tell – how was anything I posted lacking in logical thought or disrespectful to other players in the league? How was my defense of Krolik’s post on DPOY, &/or LeBron’s career narrow minded?
And tell us the truth… are you really a Cavs fan Furious or are you just a shape-shifting troll?
To whom it may concern lebron james game is so basic its not mvp caliber he just look good because his team is clicking. The MVP is the most VALUABLE PLAYER AWARD which is DAWYNE WAYDE he the best. he broke his game high record over four times this year he is in the top five in every category statistic wise. if you take dawyne wade off the team the heat would be nothing and no where close to the playoffs wade is basically the miami heat by himself thats VALUE.
Time to go back to preschool meimel. Get real & grow up.
Whatever you know im right wade is the mvp this year. if the cavaliers didnt have the record they have no one would say that lebron is mvp i meen who in there right mind would when u got wade right there with better stats(and i must add he makes it look so easy and pretty). this is not a team award its a indivisual award
Whatever you know im right wade is the mvp this year. if the cavaliers didnt have the record they have no one would say that lebron is mvp i meen who in there right mind would when u got wade right there with better stats(and i must add he makes it look so easy and pretty). this is not a team award its a indivisual award…………………….
Seriously meimel… John Barry is waiting in the parking lot to take you back to preschool. On the way you two can indulge in your delusional Wade for MVP discussion. I’m sure you’re longing for his validation.
There you go again! I’m a troll because I can acknowledge that there are other players in the league? Of course lebron is MVP, he will get all but about 2 first place votes. Hmmm…illogical…maybe that you’ve just discounted all lebrons bad games by saying that other players also play badly sometimes? spare me.
and how are you disrespecting other players in the league? How about this: “Oh wait. I know – it’s Wade. The story of him carrying that Heat team to the title in ‘06 is just so legendary… How could I forget?”
If Lebron had a series on the level of wade in 06 you would be declaring him better than Jordan.
and a shape shifting troll? Give me a break! Or are all Cavs fans supposed to be ignorant, arrogant, offensive idiots like yourself?
Dude! You’re just soooooo FURIOUS!
I wasn’t discounting all LeBron’s bad games just your lame a** argument against him, because you why are you taking LeBron to task for a bad series against Boston last year when you won’t hold Kobe to the same standard?
And how is it disrespectful to mock that ’06 series (or be sarcastic in doing so)? Maybe Wade’s performance would have been one for the ages if it hadn’t been so tainted by the league’s blatant officiating bias against the Mavericks – I know that sounds conspiratorial, & I’ll take the hate for saying this – but I don’t know how anyone who watched that series didn’t walk away from it thinking that David Stern would do anything to keep Mark Cuban from winning a title. Was Wade in on it? No. But that series was tainted & Wade benefited. Big time.
So Furious, again – I ask you – are you really a Cavs fan? You sure seem to have thin skin for someone supporting a Cleveland team… Better yet – let me ask you this – what will LeBron have to do for you to change your playoff opinion of him? I’d like you to put it down for the record, so that when you’re short-sighted critique of him is blown out of the water over the next couple of months I’ll be able to laugh when thinking of you.
Or would that be disrespectful?
I liked the write up, 2700 words is chore, but good job, i like to keep my blogs on the artistic side and not just all stats. Creativity somewhat is what i am saying. Im no author but reading stats is boring but keep up the good work…
Im not disputing that Lebron is a great player, and by the end of his career I have no doubt it will just be him and Jordan (he won’t be considered better than Jordan because nobody will have the guts to say it). But you are kidding yourself if you’re just discounting Wade because Stern doesnt like Cuban? Is that some kind of sick joke? Its a superstar league, watch any game involving Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Roy’s getting there; they all get calls that someone like Ronnie Brewer would never get. Wade might get an armchair ride from the refs, but so do the other big names in the league.
How is it disrespectful to mock that series? Because you are giving Wade nothing for being an absolute beast and winning a title, something Lebron hasnt done, despite the fact the refs call the slightest contact possible on him.
And I will hold Kobe to the same standard – he was shit against Boston, and I dont really get how he has this rep for being a big-game player, he seems to do an awful lot of choking when he doesnt have Shaq going for 30 & 15 every night. (And he’s a rapist, which doesnt help.)
Changing my opinion of him? Well my opinion of him is that he’s an absolute beast, so I guess he would have to start stinking it up big time and lose to the Pistons. That might change my mind and make me start cheering for someone else. Or maybe if he watched some video of when NBA basketball used to be a mans game and told Varejao (my least favourite Cav in franchise history, except for Larry Hughes) to grow a pair of nuts.