Links to the Present: June 10, 2013
2013-06-09
A few links to kick off a new week…
Kyrie Irving appears on the cover of Slam. A lengthy article, briefly touching on Kyrie’s response to the Scott firing; his relationship with his dad; and some goals for next season.
From Mary Schmitt Boyer: Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters and Tyler Zeller received invites to the USA Men’s National Team mini-camp in Las Vegas this July. This summer’s camp won’t include many established stars, but instead focuses on identifying future players. The event should serve as a great mid-summer milestone for this trio of players as they hone their games during the off-season.
Tristan Thompson recently sat down for an interview with Ryan Wolstat of the Toronto Sun. It’s a good read: Tristan talks about his work in the community; working on his game in Cleveland this summer; and learning Coach Brown’s system. They also spend a lot of time talking about Canadian basketball players.
According to Slam Online, Dion Waiters says the Cavs, “don’t want to settle for no 7- or 8-seed. We could probably be a 6-seed or something like that.” Though unsaid, this projection seems interwoven with a strong inclination towards analytics. Clearly he learns much from Chris Grant. Make it happen, young padawan.
Here’s a little article about Dion from Jeff McDevitt at cityofbasketballlove. Really the article is about Waiters’ cousin, Traci Carter, who is following Dion’s footsteps and leaving Philly to attend a New Jersey boarding school. Dion discusses his similar move aiding personal development and also a “no friends” mantra on the court, explaining his on-court demeanor.
Chad Ford’s latest mock draft shows the Cavs taking Nerlens Noel and Sergey Karasev, thereby completing their starting lineup of 22-and-unders: Irving, Waiters, Karasev, Thompson, and Noel. I can dig it, but a bit more experience will be needed to hit Dion’s sixth-seed projection.
Dr. James Andrews told ESPN that Noel is doing well with his recovery.
Mary Schmitt Boyer answers a lot of readers questions yesterday.
–Update–
Sam Amico of Fox Sports Ohio offers a news dump about the Cavs: the interest in Ben McLemore, an Andy update, a list of available big men, Danny Granger’ status, and this offer, which is a little hard to believe.
The Mavs offering the 13th pick and veteran forward Shawn Marion to the Cavs for the Cavs’ two second-round selections (Nos. 31 and 33) and a 2014 pick. The Cavs passed on the offer.
@ J Hill
LeBron isn’t the only player that left that season, and he left so late in the game we had no real chance to make offseason moves.
To be fair to Sam Amico, I think we all thought we would at least be better than we actually were after LeBron left. I mean, it was essentially a finals team, I don’t think we realized how much LBJ was carrying them.
I think the Cavs should try to nab Andre Miller from Denver to backup Kyrie and mentor him for a year.
@Underdog – the reason for not bringing a rookie PG in to be Kyrie’s primary backup is because of the fear of Kyrie getting injured and having a rookie step in for him. I think the team (that wants to make a push for the playoffs) is going to want a veteran presence to lead the bench unit…and (in the event of a Kyrie injury) to lead the starters as well. The other concern with 3 rookies is that means you’ll have 7 players who are extremely young…with Kyrie/TT entering their 3rd season (2nd full camp). Assuming that all 7… Read more »
@HoopsDogg: If they can unload Marion’s contract and take back no salary in the process, they would probably be willing to take on the #19 cap hold. The roughly $1-1.25 million would be nothing if they can unload $8 million more by getting rid of Marion. Effectively they’d be trading Marion for someone like Bullock and saving $8mil.
I’m betting this noise about Danny Granger, while certainly interesting on it’s own and for the right price, is a message to Dallas to get them to make that Marion/13 trade for only our second rounders. Nate is right, Dallas can’t afford to take back the 19 so if a deal is to be done we’ve got the upper hand.
Dallas doesn’t want the #19. They don’t want the cap hold.
Get ready for the Mclemore era, lol.
@KJ He’s not giving up the Cavs own 2014 pick unless it’s heavily protected. It’s an Amico rumor so it should probably be taken with a grain of salt, a lime and a shot of tequila.
Marion would bring a nice veteran presence with a little toughness. But Grant won’t package a 2014 #1 in the Marion trade. On the other hand, I’d like to keep the 31st pick to see if we can pick up G Erick Green. I can understand people saying we won’t bring four rookies into camp, but really, why not three? If Green can lead the country in scoring there’s something there (athleticism, scoring ability and ice water in the veins) that can lead him to being much greater than a role player. Especially with injury potential we have at guard.… Read more »
The only 1st round pick I could see grant giving up is the Sac pick, the Mem and Mia picks could potentially be very valuable.
At this point in his career, Marion at $9mil is something that Dallas should be paying other teams to take on. Nobody is going to take him off of Dallas’ hands in exchange for an asset, because they know Dallas needs to deal him to make their free agency dreams come true. And Dallas will ONLY take back the #19 if Marion is included. If they are stuck with Marion they can’t afford to take on the rookie salary unless they can convince their pick to stay overseas for a year. For that reason, the Cavs would have been stupid… Read more »
Cory, pretty sure we have like 6 or 7 picks in the next two years. Hardly lacking…
I would do 19,31 and 33 for Marion and #13 – should be a pretty good player available at 13, plus you maintain cap flexibility for next off-season and get a decent vet to help in a playoff push. Win win.
That’s the most generous package I would be willing to offer, however. If Cuban wants that cap space, he will play ball or his team will be lottery-bound again. Probably lottery bound regardless but whatever. He got his ring.
I still think that Marion makes sense this year for the Cavs. One year remaining on his contract and a steady veteran presence. The 2014 pick is just too risk unless it’s protected.
Most teams won’t be trading away 2014 picks. We want to believe that this team can contender for the playoffs next year. It’s still possible that everything can go wrong and the team is beset with injuries again and they’ll have a bottom five finish. Trading away future picks can be insanely risky. The only possible scenario I could see Grant giving up the 2014 pick is for a big fish trade. He’s not moving it to pick up 13 in this draft and to have to the right to pay Marion’s $9 million. Is the value at 13 really… Read more »
The Cavs are playing hardball with Dallas, and that is smart. No reason we should have to give up any more than both second rounders this year to take on Marion and the #13 pick. No future firsts. Just the two second rounders.
The Cavs should do it if they can. Take Noel – bundle the #13, #19, and any number of future firsts to get back into the top 5 for McLemore/Bennett/Porter/Len.
Holy cow. After reading that nothing Sam Amico writes should be taken seriously.
Nate and Tom, Your concerns are possibilities but I think Grant is creative enough to work around the pitfalls. Actually the Euros who could become problems might be the one’s I would consider among the least wanted. Karasev and Adetokumbo are my preferred targets and both might be great candidates to stash. Karasev might have a first round guarantee already however(from the Cavs?). Add in Jaiteh, Lima and others and there are still possibilities of draft and stash with the Cavs only bringing in two from the draft this year without trading any of those extra picks. If they traded… Read more »
Tom, if they are really that worried about having too many rookies they can find trades for those picks, either package them all to a team who is about to suck like Denver (Horrible what they did to Karl) Atlanta (Neither Dwight or Paul will ever play there) or Boston for future draft picks. You can always do things like that if you don’t like the talent available and don’t really want the rookies in the first place.
JAG- the problem is that HOU (kind of) tried this approach last year and ended up with a bunch of late lottery picks- they eventually landed Harden but they whiffed on their top target and in some ways were lucky that Harden became available. What happens if the Cavs can’t get a good deal to move up and then have 4 or 5 rookies on a team already flooded with young talent. You get a whole mess in terms of playing time that you have to work with and developing those guys into traceable assets is far from a sure… Read more »
Saric’s pulling out of the draft, because as I noted weeks ago, he sucks and won’t be drafted high enough to make it worth his buyout.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2013-adidas-EuroCamp-Day-One-4240
and Gobert said in no uncertain terms that he’s coming to the U.S. next year. I’m betting Noguiera comes over too. Denver got stuck with Fournier last year because he didn’t want to stay in Europe (at least that was my impression). I don’t think there are as many quality stash options as there used to be, especially with Euro uncertainty.
Nate,
The Cavs would probably have enough ammo to get back into the top 4-7 picks. If they didn’t the draft and stash options are enticing. All or part of a group like Adetokumbo, Gobert, Noguiera, Saric and Karasev could be drafted and stashed with there still being the possibilty of adding a big from a group like Dieng, Adams and Olynyck and/or wings like Bullock, Snell,Franklin, Caldwell-Pope and Snell. They could draft five and bring only one or two into camp while stashing anywhere from 2-4 others.
Grant likes to have options.
Agree with Ctown 27. The window of opportunity for the Mavericks is very narrow due to Nowitzi’s age. Cuban needs to make some very big trade/FA moves, and the $9 million commitment to Marion is a huge hindrance. Also it is not likely that the Mavericks have someone targeted at 13 that will make a big difference, short term. There are only a handful of teams that can deal with Marion’s salary-the Cavs being one. This scenario is not much different than what Grant did with Memphis-using the cap space as leverage to get a number 1 pick plus other… Read more »
JAG, that is some fascinating math. I agree that the Cavs are probably the number one team most likely to make a deal with Dallas, but watch out for Sac, Detroit, Utah, and Charlotte. The Cavs probably want to make that deal but I doubt Dallas has offered it yet. Dallas is trying to get something of value for the pick and for Marion, not give them away. Also I don’t think the Cavs want that many rookies. I’m not sure what the Cavs could do with the 12, 13, 19, and 29. The first tier of this draft the… Read more »
Forgot to include the #19 for the Cavs in my above post.
The Cavs would pick #12,#13, #19, #29 and #31 instead of #1, #19, #31 and #32.
The Cavs would have too many first rounders but plenty of ammunition to make more trades with other lottery teams wanting to move back.
The possibility that there is something to the Amico trade between Dallas and the Cavs got me thinking. What if it is in the works and has to be put on the back burner because of Dallas’ limit on trading their first rounder until draft day? It could be one of many scenario’s that Grant will have to work from on draft day. Let’s make it more interesting and add OKC to the mix. Sheridanhoops is reporting that Ibaka thinks that Kevin Martin is gone via FA in OKC. McLemore could be the perfect replacement for him in OKC. OKC… Read more »
And no way is grant going to trade next years #1
The mavs are desperately trying to clear cap room. Giving up #13 is the price for shedding Marion’s salary. Who else has cap room to absorb a contract without sending matching salaries? Only a few teams. I’d guess this is Dallas’s opening bid. If we could send just one of our second rounders, I’d do it, maybe we’d have to send both, but Dallas is desperate to shed salary and we have the asset (cap space) that allows grant to make an advantageous trade
If that were true (though I agree about Amico) the Mavs were likely asking for our unprotected pick in next year’s stacked draft class. I agree our goal is to make playoffs last year. But that pick should be untouchable. (Sac or Memphis pick on the other hand…)
Exactly, Ross. Anyway, the Cavs probably don’t want three first round picks. That’s a lot of rookies to absorb, and it’s actually easier to draft and stash in the second round because the slotted salaries in the first often do not cover the foreign players’ buyouts. But… The Cavs could pick a foreigner at 19 and left him stay overseas for a year: Karasev or Adetokunbo. I also imagine that Cuban would not ship Marion somewhere he desperately doesn’t want to be (whether or not that is Cleveland is unknown). Marion will be shipped or not depending on free agency.
My favorite Amico related offering…
http://www.fearthesword.com/2010/8/24/1647960/sam-amico-believe-it-these-cavs
He really liked the Cavs chances to stay competitive in the post-Lebron era.
@ Dan
Since Amico was the one to release that “news”, I would take its accuracy with a grain of salt.
Why would we pass up Marion / #13 for 2 second rounders and a ’14 pick? We (hopefully) won’t be in the lottery next year and will have even less a need for rookies. We would rent Marion for a year and $9M, and maybe get him to re-sign for less to help LeBron chase a Championship with Kyrie… I know, I am assuming, but LeBron has got to come back home… I guess when you look at this year’s #13 for a swap on next year’s pick, that may be relatively even. So, you are talking Marion for 2… Read more »
Noel Noel Noel Noel Noel Noel Noel
The 2010-11 Thunder were the 4 seed in the West (much tougher) and made the conference finals with their top 4 mins getters 22 and under and their #5 and #6 guys were 26 and 24. In fact they had only one guy over 27 get 500+ mins (Nick Collison 1500 @30).
There are few, if any, questions about the maturity of Dion, TT, and Kyrie right now.
I love Dion more than any player on this team. I’m predicting a bigger year for Waiters than Irving. I’m also predicting the cavs take Noel or Len. No way they go for shane battier (otto) or mclemore.