Late Collapses are Kind of our Thing, Ya Know?
2013-04-10
Paul George hit a few huge threes down the stretch.
IND 99 > CLE 94
Well, this was rather disappointing. The Cavaliers played three quarters of solid defense and opportunistic offense, gaining a twenty point lead at the beginning of the fourth quarter. And then it unraveled as it always does, the lead picked apart by George Hill fastbreak after George Hill fastbreak, topped off by a pair of Paul George three-pointers. People will complain about the calls agains the Cavs (the offensive foul call was a close one), but this one came down to a defensive collapse that doomed us against a suddenly effective Pacers transition offense.
First Quarter: For what the first time in what seems like forever, the young Mr. Irving started out this game on fire, knocking down jumpers and feeding Tyler Zeller for easy buckets. But the Pacers did what the Pacers do, playing ugly and effective basketball to hold off the Cavs. Tyler Hansborough in particular has perhaps the least aesthetically pleasing game in the NBA. He sort of flails around everywhere, throwing elbows with reckless abandon. And in perhaps the upset of the day, Omri Casspi played in the first quarter– and played well. He defended Paul George as best he could, and even scored. IND 29, CLE 26
Second Quarter: Kevin Jones did his best to usurp Luke Walton’s job as the second-string power forward, showcasing an offensive versatility reminiscent of Bernard King in his prime (joking, calm down). Shaun Livingston hit another midrange jumper. He’s money from 10-15 feet. Lance Stephenson got to the line a few times, and David West scored a few. Kyrie dished some nice passes at the end of the first, and the Cavaliers were up five at the half. CLE 53, IND 48
Third Quarter: The third frame started out with two straight Lance Stephenson offensive boards, followed by an easy putback. That’s gotta be a failure on the part of the Cavs frontline. Tyler Zeller continued to ball out, hitting his jumper with ease. However, his rhythm from midrange pulled him out of the paint, leading to only three rebounds for the game. Tristan Thompson looked good out there, but he was only 4-12 from the field. I honestly thought he played much better than that, but you can’t fight the boxscore. The Cavs controlled the quarter on both sides of the floor, opening up a huge lead by the fourth. CLE 84, IND 64
Fourth Quarter: Ugh. The Cavaliers were flat on offense, lazy on defense and seemingly okay with losing the game. The Pacers chipped away, and when Kyrie re-entered the game with six minutes left, Indiana had whittled the deficit to 15. Kyrie started scoring, but he gave it right back on the other end. George Hill was getting easy buckets in transition, and he’s not exactly Penny Hardaway– the issue was that no one felt like getting in front of him. The intensity disparity between offense and defense for Kyrie is truly remarkable. He has to be one of the worst defensive players in the NBA. Paul George hit a three to give the Pacers a two-point lead, and then Kyrie got whistled on a very, very, very close offensive foul call. As close as it gets. But after review, the call went against Cleveland. Pendergraph then hit one of two at the line, and Ellington back-rimmed a three pointer to end the game. IND 99, CLE 94
I don’t have any specific complaints about Byron Scott tonight. For the first three quarters, he had the Cavaliers scoring well, defending better and running the Pacers out of the gym. But once again, it all fell apart in the fourth. The players quit this game, and that has to come back to the coaching. NBA teams should not give up 20 point leads in nine minutes; that’s for March Madness. Kyrie Irving, in particular, needs to start trying on defense if he wants to earn that top-12 player status that ESPN assigned him in #NBArank. For all the talk about Scott’s ability as a point guards coach, he apparently has no idea how to convice Kyrie to defend. That was a crucial factor in this loss, as George Hill dived to the rim without resistance again and again. Disappointing loss tonight.
P.S. This was not tanking. The Cavs didn’t try to lose this game.
Is it in the Cavs best interest for Varejao to play starters minutes? The label of starter doesn’t really matter. It’s the opening tip. I’d put him on a minute count of 25 a game or less.
Noel is still a wish. They’ll most likely need to win the lottery for it to happen unless a team like Orlando wins the lottery and Cleveland gets the 2nd pick. It’s much more likely we have Porter or Olapido.
JHill – http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/61840/nerlens-noel
Check out some of his game logs. Those steal + block totals are insane. He had 12 blocks in a single game against (at the time) #16 Ole Miss. Anthony Davis esque. His offensive game is far, far from Davis, but I do not think Zeller would prevent Noel from starting for very long. AV, absolutely prevents Noel from starting. But the defensive impact Noel would have on this team would be incredibly valuable.
JHILL you’ve obviously never seen Noel play
Kobe is playing 48 minutes a night trying to secure the cavs draft pick
Josh, no way does Noel start over either Zeller or AV in even his first 2 years.
Right now, Kyrie is a liability on defense. A worse-than-Eric-Snow-on-offense level liability. Lacking a particular skillset (IE Shooting) is one thing…but your leader and best player can’t be that bad at the “effort” end of the floor.
The Cavs will never compete, regardless of draft picks or coaching, until Kyrie decides to man up.
I think my comment got eaten.
Tom- I do see some logic in what you are saying, but to me next years prospects are this simple: Give me 70+ healthy games out of Waiters/Kyrie/TT/Zeller, 50+ games out of Varejao and an even average bench, and I would bet some hardcore money the Cavs are very serious playoff contendors. And that’s without factoring in the possibility of serious improvement out of the “core 4”. I like Livingston/Walton/Speights/Ellington, but unless we are going from them back down to D-leaguers, I just don’t think losing a few of them will hurt much at all. In fact, because of our… Read more »
Just glanced at the Pistons blog… All their answers are about a sentence each, Just saying, lol
Mr. Bernstein: The fourth worst team in the league blew a 20 point lead to a team the third best team in the East….Stop…Indiana is 25 games ahead of Cleveland in the standings…Stop…There is no war in Cuba. I don’t think they are tanking. They are an inexperienced team missing two of their top four players and most of the team is running on fumes. The Cavs didn’t build a 20 point lead as much as Indiana let them. Indy is getting the three seed. It’s a wrap. They aren’t catching the Knicks for the 2 seed. I get that… Read more »
It seems like this team plays better when there is personal motivation behind the starters, (IE when Irving and everyone was down) Those players playing for a spot in the NBA, or a contract are going to play a lot harder than the players who know this season is pretty much another waste. I don’t think even Phil Jackson could motivate these players when they are already 20 games out of the playoffs and the majority of who are in their second 55+ loss season, or rookies and really shouldn’t saddle any of the blame. Thompson is correct in saying… Read more »
Wasn’t it just a few weeks ago we were talking about how Scott had this team playing at or pretty close to it’s ceiling, now we want to fire him?
Tom- Just like you guys don’t like to all be lumped together, don’t lump me into the nothing negative should ever be said. Byron Scott has clearly done a questionable, at best, job this year. That deserves to be mentioned. And if a clear upgrade at coach can be made, I’m all for it. The Thunder, our model in this rebuild, had to upgrade at coach before they took off. Chances are Byron will not be coaching this team if/when we turn into contendors. I guess that’s why his coaching ability doesn’t concern me all that much. I am simply… Read more »
Josh – WOW. Touche! I profusely apologize. I can’t even begin to tell you how infuriated I get when my thoughts get lumped. So seriously, man, I apologize. Do unto others! To your second point: Yeah the Kevin Durant stuff was kinda silly. It was obvious he was a special talent. There was also a lot of hand-wringing about his inability to do a single bench press. (have you noticed in that new commercial with Wade he is benching! He’s come so far!) I don’t want you to mis-interpret my thoughts about the bench as being an indictment of the… Read more »
The comments on this page does not state the fact the game was stolen by the refs. Cav’s play very well, sure they had some mishaps. But, nothing like what the refs did by not calling any fouls against the Cav’s for the last 6 mins of the game.
All the call went to the Pacers, the only thing I would blame BS for would be not standing up for his players like the other coach did.
Other than that BS is an excellent coach, and has done a fantastic job with what he had to work with.
Tom- Phoenix doesn’t have Kyrie Irving or any prospects that measure up to Dion and TT (maybe even Zeller ha). Bad things: Injuries, Cavs fire Scott to appease the public, a winning streak to drop our draft pick… that’s about all. It’s kind of peaceful being a Cavs fan right now. After their 10 game losing streak, I could still wear my Cavs hat without being harassed like I would’ve been if something similar happened when the Cavs were good. No need to get worked up over a game. No painful playoff exits causing me to be in the dumps… Read more »
$ – you may have misunderstood my tone about Phoenix.
Tom- At this stage in the rebuild, I would say Kyrie/Dion/TT would have to show significant signs of not being key players in the future.
Since all three show significant signs of being very important pieces of a very good team in the future, I honestly could care less what the results are of their first and second NBA seasons.
Josh – OK. Then we should have shut this blog down in mid February after there had been sufficient “signs” that Kyrie/Dion/TT were effective core players. I don’t really disagree with you. I’ve thought this entire season was about those three guys. Wins/Losses never mattered to me. I think it is silly to ignore every and all negative signs simply because there have been positive signs. But the pushback has been so enormous clearly many of you just don’t want to be troubled with things like defense or coaching or blowing leads, or staying healthy. Like this stuff just naturally… Read more »
Gordon- good point about all NBA drafts being weak. With the exception of 2004(?) when Lebron came out, there’s always just 1-3 really great players. The difference between the 3 pick and the 8 can be the difference between a superstar and role player. I’ll take the pain at the end of the season for the ability to draft a better prospect.
I sure hope we don’t fire a coach due mostly to a poor ending of a season when we’ve got nothing to play for. I know it sucks losing these game where we’ve been up big, it sucks losing big, it just sucks losing. But, it’s hard to convince players to win when all that does is reduce our ability to bring in an impact player from the draft. Let’s see how Byron coaches in these types of games next season when a win is actually valuable. I’ll jump on the bandwagon to fire Scott if we’re losing these game… Read more »
$ – “I sure hope we don’t fire a coach due mostly to a poor ending of a season when we’ve got nothing to play for.” That’s where I’m at. Stepien Rules had a post a week or so back written somewhat in jest about how the Cavs should just forfeit the rest of the season. Nothing to gain at all. It’s true, there is little to gain. However: “it’s hard to convince players to win when all that does is reduce our ability to bring in an impact player from the draft.” – Sorry, I’m not buying that. Some… Read more »
Scott won’t be fired. I could see the Cavs winning 3 more. NY and Miami will rest guys. CHA wants to edge Orlando for the greatest chances at the #1. Even 2 wins will be enough to show the Cavs were no worse than the 5-23 start when he also wasn’t fired.
The Oklahoma City Thunder won 23 games in year two of their rebuild. That is with pretty much every important piece of their team to that point playing almost every game. The Cavs have already won more games than than in year two of their rebuild, and that is with three of the most important pieces on the team missing significant chunks of time. Being worried about this team because of their record is ridiculous. Saying, as Mallory did, we are a legitimately bad team with serious flaws is even more ridiculous. Being worried because we are blowing twenty point… Read more »
Josh said: “The fact we have blown twenty point leads against several very good teams is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.”
You know I get where the unbridled optimism comes from – i have it myself. I’m going to refrain from speaking ill of this claim and asking aloud whether Phoenix counts as one of the ‘very good teams’. But I do have a simple question:
What WOULD have to happen for something to be a “BAD thing”?
“Also, how in gods name can people come out of watching a 20 point lead slip in less than 9 minutes and feel positive? That was a HISTORICALLY bad collapse. Do you guys not have pride for your team? Are you really that enamored with the allure of the number 3 versus number 4 pick? WHY?”
Because you’re a True Fan Mallory, far better at being a fan than the rest of us. So that’s why.
Also – I’ve been following this blog the past few weeks and there definitely is not a list of 10 players that should be “the guy” with our #1 pick. If you include the vast list of players talked about with the Lakers or Heat pick, then sure. Also, also – I refuse to do the research, but do you think that if OKC, back before they drafted Harden (was he the third guy?), had blown some large leads in the 4th quarter late in the season, had any effect on them moving forward? Did they lose to the Miami… Read more »
Gordon – whether or not it makes any difference – you are conveniently ignoring that the Cavs 20+ point collapses are historic. Don’t wonder aloud about OKC blowing large 4th quarter leads. Whatever results would be found in the research you refuse to do…it’s not comparable. There is a reason ESPN has been running stats all day about the Cavs. Before yesterday, a team came back from 20 points in the last 9 minutes once in the last 15 years. That’s out of like 4400 tries. So arguing against this fictional claim: ‘the Cavs lost a close game – everyone… Read more »
There is no consensus top 3 because this draft is so weak. There is a consensus top talent and highest ceiling, and that is Nerlens Noel. The only reason he isn’t the runaway, consensus #1 is the knee injury. Porter is the consensus #1 SF in the draft. There are TWO players that are tops on Cleveland’s board, and that would be Noel and Porter. If anyone else is ahead of them, then I greatly doubt our front office. They also fit our two biggest needs. With that said, the entire point is to get as high of a draft… Read more »
by 9.5 points I meant rebounds. Sorry.
Gordon – Who are the consensus top 3? Who is the consensus number one? In addition, I still question the “budding all-star” Tristan comment. I get a lot of flack for being short sighted – I don’t see how you can say Tristan is a budding all-star. Since February 1st (the approximate time of his supposed coming out party) Tristan has averaged a whopping 12 points and 9.5 (an impressive number) points per game on 47.1% shooting. He’s averaging less than a block and less than a steel per game too. What about those numbers scream future all-star? The point… Read more »
Because this it the NBA Mallory. There is a severe lack of talent in every single draft. There are usually 1-2, maybe 3 sure-fire franchise players, and the only way you can draft them is being in the top 3. This is not the NFL where you have double digit players on the field on every play, different players on offense and defense, and go what.. 60 players deep? In the NBA, Championships are won because of 2 or 3 great players on your roster. So when the only way to get those great players on your roster is via… Read more »
Also, how in gods name can people come out of watching a 20 point lead slip in less than 9 minutes and feel positive? That was a HISTORICALLY bad collapse. Do you guys not have pride for your team? Are you really that enamored with the allure of the number 3 versus number 4 pick? WHY?
SwIrving – What could the possible logic be to tank right now? Who is the consensus best player in this draft? Who’s the guy everyone is tripping over themselves trying to get? Why would Byron Scott, who is already on the hot seat, ok with losing? I’ve definitely said this in the past, and I’ll say it again – Any player who is deliberately tanking is a player I do not want on my team. I want a guy who is so disgusted by losing that he will literally kill himself not to. Killer instinct and unabashed drive. The Cavaliers… Read more »
@ Gordon — Don’t be so sure about that, considering that since Dan Gilbert took over the team, he has: (a) fired Paul Silas in mid-season of Lebron year 2, just weeks after acquiring the team, when it was in playoff contention; and (b) fired Mike Brown after 5 straight seasons of conference semis or better. And I don’t mention that to be critical of Gilbert. Point is, despite the tough circumstances Byron was handed, I don’t think we can assume his job is 100 % secure. The question is what expectations Chris Grant and Gilbert had for this point… Read more »
You don’t think there is a chance that Kyrie and some of the players are eyeing potential teammates for next year on their own when they go out and have 4th quarters like that?
How is this not a complete example of tanking? as pointed out, teams don’t lose 20 point leads with 9 minutes to go without trying a bit. We didn’t mind losing? Sounds like tanking. Kyrie didn’t play D at all? Sounds like Kyrie, but also maybe tanking. Honestly, this is exactly the kind of game I’m hoping for from here until the end of the year. Play your hardest for 3 quarters, show you can compete with anybody, then stop trying in the fourth and score 10 points to go with WD-40 defense. That is really the perfect tanking strategy.… Read more »
Scott had NINE players (maybe ten. not sure if Boobie was active) at his disposal last night! NINE! Jesus, these recaps that act like we are at full strength and just collapsing are growing tiresome. The last call was HORRIBLE. Furthermore not a single mention of the absurd FT disparity in the game in favor of the home team. Talent wins games. I swear the cult of the coach in this country in insane. If we had more talented players we would win more games. Period. Saying this is a coaching issue is ludicrous. Like Spolestra is some great basketball… Read more »
What is there to say, other than something obviously has to change? Regularly blowing massive leads is not a sign of a budding young team – it’s the sign of seriously flawed leadership.
@ King Me
Agree on all points. I think Byron is a good coach, but the fact that he was successful for other teams, doesn’t mean he’ll have the same successful for the Cavs. His style/methods/strategies just may not work with them. There’s really no one to blame. Sometimes it just doesn’t work.
Also – zero chance Byron Scott gets fired after this season. ZERO.
I went to bed thinking we had won another game, which sucks. I woke up and saw that we lost. I know I might catch some flack for this, but I am thrilled we lost this game. We are still fighting with Phoenix for a top 3 pick. We have +1 in the W column, and at this point, I think the best we can hope for is a tie with them, which would be better than the outright 4th-worst record.
Whether or not this game was Scott’s fault, I think it still sealed his fate. Someone has to answer for the stat that Jordan posted. Our defense is also atrocious, and hasn’t gotten better AT ALL under Byron’s leadership. I want to root for him, I really do, but he’s making it pretty hard to do so at this point.
How does giving a guy 35 minutes and watching him run up a +/- of -27 not turn into a complaint about Byron Scott?
Interesting and pretty sad stat from ESPN Radio:
“Prior to Tuesday, teams were 4,382-1 in which they led by 20 or more with under 9 minutes left.
Amazingly, Cleveland now has a losing record in games in which they get a 20-point lead. The Cavaliers are 3-4 in those games. The rest of the NBA is 382-12.”
Kyrie’s lack of agression? caring? passion? i dont know what to call it was interesting to say the least. Goes back to his lack of comments to the media recently. Seems either tired of losing, tired of scott, idk
Its a long season for a bad team down the stretch, Indiana wanted to win, cavs didnt mind losing