Cavs: the Duels #3: Keep or trade Marreese Speights?
2013-02-13
Larry C. Morris/The New York Times
The Cavaliers have been an order of magnitude better since trading with the Grizzlies for Marreese Speights and Wayne Ellington. But the trade deadline is nine days away. Should Cleveland be looking to keep Mo, or trade him for some more assets? Nate Smith and Mallory Factor square off.
Nate: It’s simple really. In all likelihood Speights will be a free agent this off season. Since being traded to Cleveland, he’s averaged 13.4 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1 assist, and .8 blocks with 1.3 turnovers in 22.9 minutes a night. He’s shooting .450/.333/.882 for a TS% of .526, with a PER of 19.6 according to basketball-reference. These are pretty good numbers. So now the Cavs have a bench player who can play both center and power forward, has a cap number of $4.2 million, and has a player option for $4.5 million next year. He’s certainly going to have value for a team looking to make a playoff run. Furthermore, the only way Speights doesn’t opt out is if he turns into Roy Tarpley, or if he gets hurt. If that happens, why would the Cavs even want to pay him $4.5 million next year?
Why wouldn’t Cleveland try to get an asset for him when they could just sign him in the off season anyway? At that point, it doesn’t matter if he’s a Cleveland free agent or a San Antonio free agent. Marreese Speights isn’t a sacred cow. He’s just a basketball player. If Chris Grant gets a chance at a 2014 pick, why wouldn’t he take it?
Oh, and the bloom is already coming off the rose. Speights has started regressing to his bad habits: drifting in games, and taking too many jumpers. In his first six games as a Cavalier, Speights averaged 14.7 points on .529 from the field, and 7.3 rebounds in 24.6 minutes. In his last three games? 11 ppg on .281 FG%, and 3.7 rebounds in 19.5 minutes. He is shooting well from the charity line, with a 12-12 game, and a 3-4 game, but the numbers back up the book on Marreese. He is a player who plays hard… sometimes. And he’s a player that takes too many jump shots. If Dani Socher has taught me anything, it’s sell high. The Cavs should trade Marreese Speights before his numbers plummet further.
Mallory: You make some excellent points, Nate, but you miss the overlying issue with trading Speights – it’s time for this team to not be a abysmal. It’s no coincidence that the recent success came off the heels of the trade. Speights has been an absolute beast for this team. When you consider what The Cavs’ bench was composed of before, versus now, it’s even more apparent that the real value from that trade came in the form of the big man. The fact is, the team’s bench looks better now than it has since the LeBron era. You yourself said that the bench outplayed the starters against the Timberwolves. You’re really willing to give up that cohesiveness for what will likely not match Speights’ output?
Nate: Yes, I’m absolutely willing to give up some of that cohesiveness for a couple months, and then get it back in the summer. I’m not too sold on the Cavs recent success, either. Monday’s game proved that the Cavs, especially the young players, have a lot of growing up to do. Ten weeks of Mo Speights is not going to turn a sniping Tristan and Kyrie into the zen of Larry Nance and Mark Price. Furthermore, why would Cleveland want to keep winning this season? They’re costing themselves ping pong balls with each win. True, this isn’t the greatest draft, but I’d rather a good player in a bad draft than a bad player in a bad draft.
The trade goal should be to flip Mo for some draft picks in 2014. What if the Cavs could trade Mo and a second round pick in 2014, to get a second 1st rounder? Something like this: Gibson, Speights, Casspi, and a 2014 2nd rounder (one of Cleveland’s two), for Nando De Colo, DeJuan Blair, Stephen Jackson (who’d be immediately bought out), and San Antonio’s 2014 first rounder, top 5 protected. It makes Cleveland worse short term and better long term. The trade nets the Cavs another misunderstood big man, a point guard prospect, and another chip in the loaded 2014 draft class, and if the spur falls off the boot next year for San Antonio, then it’s all the better. Do it for this year and next year’s draft. Do it for Shabazz! Do it for Nick Gilbert! Don’t deny him the draft lottery spotlight!
Mallory: You and I have greatly disagreed on the ultimate ends to this season, so I’m going to skip over the discussion about win now vs win later – it’s a much longer discussion for another time. The fact is that this team feels more fluid than it ever has before . The risk of disrupting a good dynamic for someone who would likely be less known than Speights (who, let me remind you, is only 25) is too high to make it worthwhile. The chance that Speights re-signs with whatever team he ends the season on is always going to be higher than it will be that he’ll sign with another team. Lets say Speights gets traded for a middling round pick in any given draft – isn’t the most likely scenario for whatever that player turns out to be worse than Speights himself?
Your hypothetical trade is great, yes, but I HIGHLY doubt any team gives up that much for Speights. He’s quickly turning into one of those guys who is worth endlessly more to this Cavs team (who need a multi-functional big) versus other teams. Additionally, with all the excitement over the 2014 draft, I doubt those picks will go for cheap – even if they’re middle round picks that, in all likelihood, won’t even end up being players better than Speights.
Basically, unless Cleveland can package Speights with some guys for a KNOWN player or a DEFINITE top 5 pick, there’s no reason to do it. His value in the short and long term is as a guy who helps the development of players like Kyrie, Dion (who has played MUCH better with Speights on the team than before), and TT. As guy who can be part of the not-so-distant future, that is substantially higher than what the Cavs would get in return.
Speights: Gellin'... like a felon.
Nate: The crux of your argument is, “Cleveland’s gelling right now. Getting rid of Speights could stop that and hurt their long term development.” I just don’t see it. Kyrie Irving is not going to look back some day when he actually turns into Uncle Drew and say, “that ten extra weeks I got to play with Mo Speights in the spring of ’13… it changed everything.”
The second focus of your argument is that Speights will be more likely to sign with the team the Cavs trade him to than with the Cavs. You might be right if it’s a team like the Spurs. Mo might get a taste of winning, and never want to leave. But, he could also get buried on some team and never want to re-sign there because he won’t get an opportunity like he would with Cleveland.
Your third argument is that Cleveland won’t get enough to make it worth their while: the trade has to be worth the increased risk of not signing him in the off-season. But you’re forgetting that the Cavs could decide not to trade Speights, and then get nothing if he leaves. The fact that the Cavs gave up little to get him doesn’t matter. He’s an asset, and letting him leave for nothing is a bad business decision – like the movie, Rock of Ages bad.
Chris Grant doesn’t know what other teams will offer him till he tries. A top five pick probably isn’t going to happen, but as the last few years have shown, having multiple first round picks greases the wheels in a lot of trades. One never knows if the jewel Cleveland gets for selling high on Marreese Speights is the extra little scale tipper needed to get a superstar in the future.
Mallory: Look, I get Speights isn’t a fanchise-changing guy. At least not in the superstar Kyrie way. (I’d argue that Mo’s arrival has changed the Cavs over the past month, but whatever). The point is that he’s become a big part of the way this team runs. His averages have been great, his tenacity is absurd, and he fits the team’s needs perfectly. If Cleveland trades him, I doubt he looks back and says “now that’s the team I want to go back to,” but if they keep him, I bet he ends up re-signing.
Chances are, whatever they get in a straight-up trade or a trade where Speights is the featured piece – whether it be a pick or a prospect – will not end up being up to his caliber as a bench guy. (Lets put it this way – who, in the last month, has been a better player: Tyler Zeller or Speights? Think that kind of pick.) Why would the Cavs risk losing Speights just because they want to keep making deals?
If a mind-blowing trade comes along, where the Cavs trade Speights, Zeller, Walton’s contract, plus their #1 pick for Cousins or something, then duh I’d pull that in a heartbeat (note: I have no idea if that trade works), but for another shot in the dark? No way. At some point they have to look at this roster, say to themselves, “This is the foundation for success. We’ll add another piece or two, and then we’re big time contenders.” Speights alone will likely not change that landscape. So why rock the boat?
…
So who wins, Commentariat? Should Cleveland keep Mr. Speights or attempt to trade him?
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that you can’t sign a player for a year after you trade him away now. I recall something along that line being said about Derek Fisher when the Lakers traded him last year. I’d like for the Cavs to resign Mmaarreessee but I’m completely against them overpaying to keep him. $6 million would be about as far as I’d go for the guy. Love his game, but overpaying for marginal talent is one of the most dangerous sins you can make running an NBA team. We’ll have a better idea… Read more »
“The fact is that this team feels more fluid than it ever has before . ”
Er, that’s definitely not a fact. I know it’s a lot more fun for you to talk about the Cavs winning but the bench is the last piece you build not the first.
so why aren’t the cavs showing any interest in trying to make a move for josh smith? it seems to me this is an area that helps now and next year with a team that has alot of young assets that they could put togethor to acquire him and still have cap space left over. like giving up gee, one of our many big’s not named zeller which could leave a nice starting core of waiters, irving, smith and zeller for next year which in the east could easily put the cavs into the playoffs. you even can give up… Read more »
If you guys all remember right before his injury livingston used to be the next magic johnson. I say hold onto him even if you have to overpay by a few hundred thousand dollars, I mean we have to spend cap anyways right?
Not trading Speights does not equal overpaying Speights. Especially if he picks up his player option. If he doesn’t and ends up getting a big offer from a different team then we let him walk. I absolutely love Livingston and I think shouldnt be that hard to keep. He’s a minimum contract guy whose been bounced around the league and has about as big of an injury history a player can have. I also think its a no-brainer to extend the QO to Ellington is the offseason. $3.5 Mill isnt anything for a knock down shooter off the bench and… Read more »
I’m not saying we shouldn’t trade Speights under any circumstances, but we should at least acknowledge that he’s a better than average bench player. If it were so easy to find guys like that we wouldn’t have had to play Hollins, Erden, Gody, etc (who else am I missing?) so many minutes the past few years.
Evil Genius and Mallory are all over it with their thinking on Livingston. He is the perfect third wheel in a guard rotation with Kyrie and Dion. His court vision and distribution skills would be hard to replace and add in his size and he may be a one of a kind good fit. Speights is a great fit also but there are others who will be available with similar skillsets that the Cavs could add to their mix.
I hope they trade Speights. I think they will. No need to overpay for guys like that.
I agree with Mallory here, i love Livingston as well.
Completely with you, Evil Genius – LOVE Livingston.
@cols714 He’s averaged 16.4 minutes a night because he’s a bench player. That’s what were talking about. Whether we should keep a solid bench player or try and trade him for a future pick or other assets. No matter what you think the Cavs need to do this year (and for the record I am solidly with you on the development of the young guys should be the focus front) they need to be able to compete for a playoff spot next year. Good teams have good players coming off the bench. A future late first round pick won’t help… Read more »
I’d like to see them find a way to keep Speights. But the guy I really hope they find a way to hang onto is Livingston.
In the last 10 games its 22.8 mpg, 13.4 and 6.1
Anything other than Speights agreeing to sign off on his opt out option probably means the end of the Speights era in Cleveland. I just don’t see Grant being willing to guarantee anything beyond next year to anyone who isn’t a franchise cornerstone. The sad part is if Mo opts out of his contract he may be hard pressed to get much more than that $4.5M his current contract would give him. There will be only 10-15 teams that will have CAP space available next year and there will be almost that many quality PFC FA’s. Factor in that most… Read more »
OK. Then think to yourself why he only gets 16 minutes per game if he’s all that.
And no Andysav, the Ray Allen comparison is not remotely comparable. He already had a long career and made tons of money. This next contract might be the only decent one Speights gets to sign. He’s not going to take a discount to play for Cleveland just because they didn’t trade him.
That’s 16.8/9.6 per 36 minutes.
7.6 and 4.4 in 16.4 mins per game btw Cols
@Cols in 16.4 minutes per game. Hey, those stats look pretty good now!
@Cols714 I would say that more that money goes into who signs where. Take Ray Allen, he left his team and took less money this offseason, because he felt disrespected by his benching (to be fair Miami also gave him a better shot at a ring). Just saying that these are real people, and just like anyone of us, can possibly be motivated by things other than money. But even if we are talking purely on terms “best contract”, you have to take into account that Cleveland and other small market teams traditionally have to overpay to sign free agents.… Read more »
Just to be clear, we are arguing about a guy whose career averages are 7.6 pts and 4.4 rebounds per game.
Um no. He will sign with the team that offers him the best contract.
@Cols714 While in theory trading Speights does not change his ability to sign with the Cavs in the offseason, you’re being a bit disingenuous when you say it doesn’t make him less likely to sign here. I don’t know him personally but I would think that with most people the team that traded you for a late first round pick (if that) after you came in midseason and played well for them would not be your first choice. Besides that I think the most valuable possible asset we can get from Speights is if he decides to pick up his… Read more »
Here’s the thing about trading Speights for picks. Given the sort of picks we would get for him, what are we going to do with them? We already have more draft picks then we will ever have roster spots. Sure packaging those picks for a better pick sounds great but at best that’s gonna get you what a 15th pick at best most likely. I love this bench (even Walton, I just cried a bit at saying that) and it’s chalk full of savvy veterans who know how to play as a cohesive unit. Gibson, Casspi (tear…), and either miles… Read more »
People
Keeping Speights at the deadline does not make him more likely to sign here. Trading Speights does not make it less likely that he signs here.
What part of he is going to be a free agent after this season don’t we get?
I say we keep mo unless we can get a solid, young, cheap asset or a near sure lottery pick. Neither is likely, so I side with keeping him. I think there is a much bigger chance of Marreese resigning in Cleveland for a reasonable number than a 20-30 pick in 2 years being of better use. Everything depends on the specifics, but I see no reason running around with our pants on fire trying to get rid of Marreese before we lose him for nothing. He’s not exactly a huge asset, if you are willing to trade him for… Read more »
Andysav –
Agreed it’s irrelevant because he wouldn’t yield us that – but I used it for the sake of argument.
@Kj What Mallory is saying is not that mid first round picks can’t be successful, but the odds are they won’t net us a player that is as good as Speights. This is widely irrelevant because no one is going to give us a pick in the teens for Mo Speights. @Cols and Kj People understand the difference between tanking and not caring if you win as long as your good players develop. What they are questioning now is whether it is worth giving up a solid bench contributor for a late draft pick just for the sake of “acquiring… Read more »
My last sentance above isn’t really clear…meant to say…
Re-signing Speights and Ellington to bad contracts could actually end up being far worse than getting nothing at all for them, especially in light of the fact that the Cavs already acquired a future first rounder with them in their original trade.
Sorry for all the corrections but this should make more sense.
HAG is not my new monniker…oops.
got to flex my editing power there, JAG. All for the good of blogging mankind.
Trading or not trading Speights is a conundrum that I am glad I won’t be making the ultimate decision on. Speights would be a great fit for the Cavaliers going forward as a player. Contract wise he would probably be a good fit at a figure relatively close to what he is currently being paid. Odds are he will opt out of his contract for 2013-4. At that point Grant will probably let him walk, because the Cavs are likely not going to take on any additional guaranteed salary beyond next year unless the player they acquire is viewed as… Read more »
@JAG – I think your comment sort of points to this but it is worth noting that having an owner that is willing to absorb bad contracts has been the Cavs most valuable ‘asset’. Taking on Baron Davis/Luke Walton/Memphis subs is what net: Kyrie Irving, Tyler Zeller, Memphis Future 1st.
Mallory, Speights was the 16th pick in his draft. By definition you are defeating your own argument by saying the 15th pick in any draft won’t be as good as Speights! Ya see the contradiction here, yeah?
And Cols, no one seems to understand that. They think we are tanking. Period. It can be a bit maddening to see the lack of foresight by some people with regards to this team…
I would like to point out that there is a difference between tanking, which the Cavs don’t seem to be doing, and not caring if you win as long as the players that matter, like Kyrie, Tristan, and Dion, are making improvements.
People need to realize we are not going to get a mid first round pick for Speights. He’s been traded twice recently. The first time for a second rounder and the second time for a d-leaguer. Last year we had to trade Ramon and take on Walton’s contract just to get the Lakers pick. As for tanking for a pick, honestly, Speights is not going to net at so many wins that we don’t end in the top 5. If we end up out of the top 5 in the lottery it’ll be because our young star players get us… Read more »
Mallory
I don’t understand you. In the podcast, you finally admitted that it wasn’t time to win right now and that timing the winning is key. Now you act like Speights is the end all be all not only of winning but of winning now. (And Andy too, maybe you just like big guys who come off the bench?)
And enough with the draft. When Chris Grant starts blowing picks then you can complain. But for now Grant deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to talent evaluation.
Bill, I think you’re misguided in your dependence on late-draft picks. Because of the likelihood that those picks pan out, you can’t look at them as definite assets. Lets say you traded your ENTIRE team for picks 12-22 in any given draft – you might get one star, one borderline star, 3 roleplayers, and a bunch of scrubs – that’s a GOOD year, right? Do you believe giving up an entire team is worth that? Obviously not – no reasonable person would. Now, lets look at the individual piece – I agree, Speights will never be a star. He’s a… Read more »
If we can get a star or a big asset then we’ll trade him but everyone on this thread agrees that every player has a price but dealing to make deals is pointless. In addition, I have no idea where that kind of asset would come from. I don’t know who’s dealing a lottery pick in a loaded draft for Marreese Speights. This isn’t would-have-been-All-Star Andy Varejao we’re talking about, it’s Marreese Speights.
We already have about 10 draft picks over the next few years I’d say if we can’t hit on at least one of those to get the kinds of later draft steals that you guys are talking about then we have bigger problems on our hands.
By the way- I threw out those names because they’re mid first round picks.
This is a similar debate to the one with Andy. Every player has a price especially players like Speights and I’m sure Chris Grant is looking for deals for just about anyone. If someone offers a deal that blows him away of course he will trade him. WIth this said, a couple things, Speights is not the type of player Andy is. He isn’t a great defender, a great rebounder, and the book on him is that he plays with inconsistent effort. Yes, he can and does play well but his skill set isn’t as elite and he doesn’t have… Read more »
Mallory, it’s obvious you hate losing. You want to win every game and win right now. That’s great but not if it costs the team long-term success. Speights is a good big man to have coming off the bench. I’d definitely want to keep him if we had a team that was a contender. There’s no reason to have him here this year. We’re not going to make the playoffs and unfortunately every game we win hurts the caliber of player we can draft. If we can get any 1st round pick for Speights, he’s gone. Then, if we’re in… Read more »
Tom, so by that logic if the Grizzlies trade Jon Leur he should be able to get them two quality bench players and a potential lottery pick. I’m only teasing, but I don’t think that’s a really valid way of determining trade value. Value in trade currency is very fluid to say the least.
Bill – I think it’s at least somewhat indicative of his value (the 76ers trade). A salary dump certainly isn’t.
Luis is correct.
I would try to trade Speights and see what I could get. Speights will likely opt out of his contract at the end of the season. If he does end up going to a contender, not many of those teams have the salary cap to sign him to the money he is probably looking to make next season. Speights is a good player, but he isn’t an organization changer. He isn’t the missing piece on our team. What we get for him might not equal his actual value, but the pieces that we get for him might make an trade… Read more »
I’m of the opinion that stars matter, not the end of the bench. If we hit on Kyrie, Tristan, Dion, and whatever pick we get this year, we will have a good team. The rest is just filler and it’s not that hard to find.
Mallory
Yes, what you’re saying makes sense. If they go that route, that would leave them the cap space to sign LeBron…if that’s the goal. That would limit any other moves, but it would work.
It’s my own opinion that Andy is better suited at PF than C, and keeping both creates a logjam. But that’s another topic altogether…
Mallory. Chances are you are never going to see Andy and Speights play together. One, or more likely both players, aren’t going to be with the team next year.
I could see maybe keeping Andy as a backup I guess. But I wouldn’t bet on it.
Cody –
I honestly think Andy and Speights can co-exist. Realistically, Zeller is a 10-12 MPG player, right? Speights is 20-25, Andy is ~30, and TT is around 32. That puts us right around 98. The Cavs could even play a big lineup where Speights moves over to the 3, and I think we’d survive for 5 minutes a night.
I think this is also dependent on what the Cavs want to do with Andy. I don’t think it’s a good idea for the Cavs to unload both of them.
For those that would like to see CG pull another trade and flip Speights for a number one pick, who are the viable trading partner candidates? I doubt the Spurs would do the trade Nate proposed, but who are the teams that are currently looking for a Speights type of player and could put something competitive together to make it worth it for CG to pull the trigger?
Tom
For that question Speights is the best fit. But once again, that does not mean that he’s someone we would really care about if they left because they wanted more money.
He’s a bargain right now, we found him. That does not mean we then need to overpay to keep him. We just go back and find another bargain. Grant seems like he’s good at this.
Assuming Speight’s value isn’t something completely different than what it was a year ago, here is what he netted the 76ers:
As part of a 3-team trade, (Speights) traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Memphis Grizzlies; the Memphis Grizzlies traded Xavier Henry to the New Orleans Hornets; the Memphis Grizzlies traded a 2012 2nd round draft pick (Tornike Shengelia) to the Philadelphia 76ers; and the New Orleans Hornets traded a 2013 2nd round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers.
So Speights netted Philly Tornike Shengelia and a 2013 2nd round pick.
EvilGenius – The Byron thought is one I didn’t really even consider in arguing, but is totally and completely a secondary reason to keep this bench – we should have a pretty good idea, at this end of this year, if Scott is the coach we want going forward. At this point, we have a talented enough team to at least compete night in and night out. If he can win us some games that hang in the balance, and show a real knack for in-game adjustments (watch for that tonight, by the way) I think everyone could get on… Read more »
Comment monster struck again…could someone lend a hand?
if anyone ever gets monster/d and I’m not the primary author you can tweet at me @tompestak and I will get an email notification so I know to pop in if the other guys are busy. I try to check the comments but it’s easier if I just got the notification
Nate makes a lot of good points, but I side with Mallory on this. At some point, you have to show the young guys that there’s a plan to build toward success. Kyrie probably won’t look back and say “that 10 extra weeks I got to play with Mo Speights in the spring of ’13… it changed everything” but he might look back and say “making that trade for Speights and Ellington and keeping them for another couple of seasons gave us a real bench and showed me Dan G and Chris G were serious about winning. That made all… Read more »
@ Dan That’s not a stupid question at all. The answer is yes, there are rules for that. It depends on whether the player is on their rookie contract or not. I believe it works like this: a player on their contract signed as a rookie can extend from the July moratorium to October 31 before the players final season. A veteran contract can be extended up at any time up to June 30th of his final season (the day before he becomes a free agent). If this is in reference to Speights, I think he is on his rookie… Read more »
Tom – Exactly – your comment is exactly why I’m pretty luke-warm about the mid to late draft pick as an asset argument – it’s an asset as a secondary part of a trade – you’ll never (or VERY rarely) see a bunch of late 1st round/early 2nd round picks lead to a top 5 or even top 10 pick – it just doesn’t happen. Also, Matt, it’s true Zeller may be ahead of where Speights was as a rookie (I don’t really know this for fact, but lets assume it is anyway) – does that mean Zeller is guaranteed… Read more »
I side with Mallory on this one. I like the idea of perserving the bench and hopefully bringing the trio of Speights/Linvingston/ and Ellington back next year. I don’t see a great deal of fits for Speights right now. Like Mallory pointed out he has more value to the Cavs than almost any other team, for that reason I don’t see any great assets coming in. In the proposed Spurs trade I don’t see Blair or Colo as great returns and if we swap our second for their first, it might be a situation where we only improve by 10… Read more »
now THERE’S an interesting idea. Assuming the same contract, which player would be a better fit on the Cavs. Speights, Hickson, or Blair?
@Snaggles – Nice history drop. @Nate – if you are waiting for the spur to fall off the boot in San Antonio – you might be waiting for a while. I know the Cavs traded 24, 33, and 34 for 17. Here is SouthWest FL’s comment: “Trading Speights for assets that can be used to move back into the top 5 this year could be huge.” Can anyone give me a scenario where the Cavs trade Speights for assets, and using those assets trade into the top 5 in 2014? I keep trying to do this thought experiment and keep… Read more »
Dan –
You can extend if the player is in his contract year. Otherwise you cannot.
Stupid question, does the NBA CBA have rules against in-season contract extensions?
I had no idea Otto Porter read this blog.
I like Speights, and he is way better than any big man on our bench. But NBA big men at his level are not that rare. Also, Speights is going to want more money than he is worth, and while he is good offensively, he really does not play defense (see what advanced stats guys say about him, check out gothicginobili’s player capsules). If you can get something of value for him, do it. Don’t think you can really compare Speights to Zeller right now. Zeller is a rookie hitting the wall, Speights is pretty seasoned in the league. Rookie… Read more »
I’m with Mallory. I think keeping this bench group together is basically a commitment from management to the players and the fans that the tanking is over. I also think this is an undeniably good thing! We’re still going to have a lottery pick this year and plenty of 1st’s going forward. If Chris Grant thinks it’s time to start stockpiling actual talent as opposed to potential future talent then I, for one, am totally on board.
Cavs fans remember when we traded for Tony battie LeBrons rookie season and he greatly helped us a little bit that season?? Well we didn’t make the playoffs that year, and we ended up trading him soon after for a couple of guys named Drew Gooden and Anderson Varejao. Battie was 27 just like Speights
Where’d my comment go?
My comment got eaten. But obviously I side with Nate. It’s one thing to say that Speights is a nice player, but let’s not put him in the we have to have him category. If he wasn’t a free agent, sure keep him. But he’s going to be a free agent at the end of this year.
Obviously like Mallory said if there’s a no brainer out there waiting then you do it, but other than that I don’t see the Cavs dumping him. Not enough bigs. And I know everyone likes the idea of keeping that bench unit together but I think Scott needs to move Tyler to the bench. He looks dead out there. And that’s not meant as a knock on him. Going up against starting centers every night is grinding him down to a nub.
Trading Speights is the right move. It is great to see this team gelling and winning games, but for our long term development as a team, it isn’t. Kyrie is a bonafide superstar. Waiters has glimpses of greatness, and I think an offseason of hard work could be huge for him. TT is developing into a consistent 15/10 guy, and that little hook shot has been devastating. Zeller is going through a swoon, but looks to be a solid rotational big. What this team needs to ensure it is a perennial title contender is another top 5 pick. At the… Read more »
As a future Cav, I gotta say you trade him now while his value is high and he is sitting on a reasonable contract. I don’t buy that it’s more likely he signs with the Cavs at season’s end unless it’s the Cavs offering the most money. Odds are he regresses to the mean, shoots 45% for the rest of the season, casts up a lot of off-balance jumpers while making some high energy plays. I love guys that want to be in Cleveland but I think we over-value those players fairly consistently. I also don’t think he’s going to… Read more »
I side with Mallory. The bench is playing well now. I wouldn’t mess with it for a mid to late first round pick that may or may not develop in several seasons. Plus, if TT gets hurt and has to miss some time, Mo can step in and play. Unless Chris Grant knows for certain that Mo will leave or ask for something unreasonable, I think they should keep him.
I agree with Nate. If Speights signs with another team we get nothing for him. That is bad business. We are still in the business of collecting assets. That is what we need to do. We have no idea if the pick we were to get for Speights is the last piece we need for our own version of the James Harden trade. That is where I think you are missing the point Mallory. Your thinking we trade Mo for a pick who turns into player X, who will most likely not be as good as Mo, who you presume… Read more »