What an awful loss. It’s never easy watching your favorite team lose to an equally awful one. Even more, when you’re at home and coming off a pretty good last ten.
Tom and I had a lot to say about this lost, so we decided to pop on the line for a mega-podcast! In it we discuss the recent loss to the T-Wolves, the development of Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, and our bench, and answer some of your questions.
As always we’re on soundcloud at: https://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0024-cavs-92-t-wolves-100
And on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843?mt=2
Enjoy!
Getting sick and tired of Byron’s hard-ass attitude towards Dion… sacrificing an arguably better chance at winning the game to teach one player a lesson smh, how are Kyrie and Dion able to develop chemistry when Byron pulls out such a stupid rotation?
Getting tired of Kyrie sticking like glue to every freaking screen that hits him. Doesn’t seem to happen to anyone else on the team so often. He has got to quit dying on screens like he’s been shot.
I’m trying to figure out what Dion did to deserve the “benching?” He certainly guarded Ridenour better than anyone else. Baffling…
Kyrie’s hero ball is getting wearisome these last few games.
Also, let’s keep some perspective here; we lost by 8 and Minny shot over 50% on 3′s when for the season they shoot HALF that percentage. That’s yr ballgame, folks…
Also the refs completely swallowed their whistles. Outrageous…
The hardest dunker on the cavs is Speights, he does try to dunk hard at all times.
Gee could do so much more with Windmills and pump slams, but its usually pretty average. Highest Flyer yes, hardest dunker no.
You gotta WANT to play defense. You gotta WANT to box out on every shot. I think it’s time for the coaches to unload on these guys and seriously question their manhood. Last night was pathetic, esp. the defensive effort in the 4th qtr. We all know they CAN do it, why don’t they WANT to?
Agree benching DIon was stupid but even more stupid is defense continues to be a problem and Cavs have NOT progressed at all in this dept. WHy aren’t they learning? What’s up coach?
OH geez. A bunch of complaining about defense. Young teams like the Cavs generally don’t play good defense. They’ll get better. No reason to worry about this. As long as the guys are talented enough (and Kyrie, Tristan, and Dion are) then they’ll learn to play defense.
No, the coach doesn’t have to “unload” on them or scream on the sidelines. I’m sure they are working on this stuff.
Podcasting losses? Brave souls, you are.
Cols did you listen all the way through when we gave you a shout out?
Ugh. Kyrie played like a Diva on offense and defense. That Ridnour screen where he was literally went under the screen to be screened by a THIRD player off the ball and left no one within 10 feet of Ridnour? Awful. Bench completely outplayed the starters here. If Livingston plays Kyrie’s minutes they win that game. Ball stopped moving as soon as Irving came back in the game.
Fox Sport Ohio said Dion was benched for too many turnovers. Well Cols, these guys have played half a season already and please point out to us where you have seen even some improvement on defense. This complaining bunch as you so eloquently called us is not asking for wins just improvement on defense. Just because they are a young team doesn’t mean they get a free pass and we are not allowed to even discuss the ongoing problems they are having on defense.
Ugly. Two things particularly bothered me. One, did anyone else catch the incessant yapping that was going on between Kyrie and Tristan. Fred Macleod and the sideline reporter said that Byron asked, “Are you done?”. They missed on what was really happening. Kyrie was mad at Tristan for not calling out a screen properly. The shot was missed, but Tristan fouled on a putback attempt by Minny. Waiters comes over and says something, but Tristan looks right past him all the way to the three point line and jaws with Kyrie during the entire process of shooting two free throws. It was after this exchange that I saw the body language of the entire starting lineup go in the dumps. Which brings me to my second point. The mechanics of the game were ugly. Just bad. But as gifted as Kyrie is, he needs to bring it every game. He was “disinterested” against Detroit. He then went on a 3 or 4 game tear. Even though CJ Miles tried to establish accountability before the game by saying not to overlook Minny, that’s exactly what we did. A little adversity comes, and Kyrie gets into a spat, and poof, a big bunch of Debbie Downers dawns the Wine and Gold. The pregame accountability needs to come from Kyrie. He also needs to bow his back and snap out of the funk while the game was still winnable. His horrible defense is what it is right now. Attitude would help it But his attitude was severely lacking for the 2nd time in two weeks. So while it’s funny that he spends the pre-game talking three point contests with Byron, I’d like to see him LEAD more, both in actions and words.
As a preface: COLS714 I often agree with you. I have found it laughable at the 180 that some have performed on Tristan, and I too believe the same souls will with Dion. But I don’t wanna hear about how Kyrie is fine, he’ll get better. I’m sure he will. But all the other guys aren’t as talented as him. They don’t have his margin for error. He needs to get his mind right and LEAD this team against Minny like he does against OKC. Young isn’t an excuse. He’s an ALL-Star. Find the intestinal fortitude to right the ship when things aren’t going well against bottom feeders. Lose the disgust and attitude towards your teammates.
Young is an excuse. People aren’t always at their most focused when they are young. It takes a few years of playing in the NBA before most stars get it on defense. Look at Jordan, LeBron, etc. Those are probably the two best NBA players ever and neither one was all that awesome at defense their first couple of years.
We bitch about it because we can, but I’m just happy with the deevlopment Kyrie, Dion, and Tristan have made so far on the offensive end. It’s great.
Mallory, Tom – as usual, great work on the podcast. Also, thanks for taking my question.
Mallory – I know the exact moment you were taking about when Ridnour hit that game sealing 3. It was the 4th with 1:30 to go. Kyrie was playing pretty far off him and went under the screen. Pekovic could have been called for moving, if the refs were bothering to call anything. Kyrie got stuck then tried to double back. TT couldn’t close because Ridnour didn’t go completely around. It was handled wrong IMO. Would rather have seen Kyrie go over and chase him off the line, have TT step out and double and rotate weak side on Pekovic. Maybe they could have forced a turnover.
Tom – I agree about Kyrie needing to show intensity on D. He is the face of the franchise now, others will feed off of him. I think he’s young and humble enough to still be impressionable and have a defensive mindset. Although I wonder if Byron Scott is the coach to get him there.
Also, it’s not that I’m pushing for the Cavs to trade Andy, but there are a couple of things to consider. He is 30. As great as he is at rebounding, he can get overwhelmed by size. Even when he was playing at an all-star level earlier this season, the Cavs defense was still pretty bad. IMO, he’s out of position at center. I wouldn’t mind if they kept him. I agree he’s more valuable to the Cavs than to other teams. He also makes contributions that don’t show up in the box score. Perhaps signing (or drafting) a center and bringing Andy off the bench at the 4 is an option. Less wear & tear on him and he’s guarding players closer to his size. I’ll explain in a later post why I believe the Cavs could spend roughly 12 mil/yr on a center and still have enough cap flexibility to sign a certain SF in 2014.
Cody – that’s true about Varejao. He is really not the answer to defending the biggest centers in the league. It’s kinda nice that right now in the East Brook Lopez might be the biggest load in the post. Might not always be that way. Look forward to your 12 mil/yr Center post.
Andy should absolutely be traded. He’s small, he’s not particularly skilled offensively, he’s injured all the time and he’s at an age where he could be declining.
I would guess that high energy guys like Andy don’t age very well. I think we should assume that he’s gone sometime this offseason.
Well, if the Cavs keep/pick up options on the following players for 2013-14:
Andy – 9 mil
Irving – 5.6 mil
TT – 4 mil
Dion – 3.8 mil
Gee – 3.2 mil
Miles – 2.2 mil
Ellington – 3.1 mil
Zeller – 1.6 mil
Total – 32.5 mil
Now here’s where some decisions get made. A lot of this hypothetical or approximations….
Speights – 7.5 mil
New total – 40
Based off what he’s done with the Cavs. This may be high, but it’s hypothetical, and it assumes that they want to trade Andy and keep Speights long term. We’ll see.
Oden – 2 mil Based off rumors. Hopefully not guaranteed beyond the first year
New total – 42
Livingston – 2 or 2.5 mil Maybe this would be for 2 years…team option for the third
New total – 44.5
The salary cap for 2013-14 will be at least 58 mil. It will go up, but I’m not sure by how much. Leaving 13.5 mil. If free agent X is signed for 12 mil, we have 1.5 mil for draft picks. That might be a little low, so maybe either Miles or Ellington isn’t picked up, or Speights or Livingstons contract is a little lower.
Now, this has the Cavs at the cap, and creates a log jam in the front court. For starters, it might be wise for Zeller to have a season in the D league. This would leave some time for Oden to backup the FA center. Of course, if Oden doesn’t work out, Zeller is the backup.
This would give Andy a chance to play and increase his trade value. The unfortunate part here, is that they couldn’t take back long term salary to keep cap space for 2014-15. So, you’re trading him for draft picks and expiring contracts. Yes, that’s way below his value, but there’s no way around it. At least in this scenario.
Gee has a non-guaranteed contract. If he’s not traded, he could be waived. Miles/Ellington come off the books. Either Zeller or Oden has to be waived.
It gets a little cloudy at this point, but basically you have on the books for 2014-15:
Free agent center – 12 mil
Irving – 7 mil
Speights – 7.5 mil
TT – 5.1 mil
Dion – 4 mil
Livingston – 2.5 mil
Oden – 2 mil
2014 first round draft pick (would have to be Gee’s replacement) – 4 mil
Total – 44.1 mil. Now assuming the cap has gone up maybe 5 mil in two seasons, this leaves about 19 mil to sign LeBron and draft picks.
A lot of this is guessing (maybe 11 mil for a FA this season), but you can see where I’m going…I hope. I believe the Cavs have left themselves the space to sign a quality FA this off-season and leave room for LeBron.
I did make a post, but it was a little long. Comment monster might be feasting on it.
These podcasts would be much better if Mallory wasn’t involved.
He talks over people, shouts out stuff, etc. Can we please find a better moderator?
And no, it absolutely doesn’t matter if they win or lose this year. None at all. As long as they are competitive and play hard and are learning it’s all good.
Next year wins and losses matter, but not this year.
Ugh!!!!!
I can’t take this. No Andy is not the key to us winning next year. No way I can get through this entire thing.
That’s it, I’m done. Can’t finish. Now complaining about draft picks. Totally ignoring the fact that Grant has absolutely owned the draft the last two years.
Oh finally somebody tells Mallory that the wrong way to rebuild is to try to win now.
Of course it doesn’t make sense to win now. Mallory agrees! But then what was the first 3/4 of this podcast about?
Definitely drafting a center. Not signing a free agent center. Of course Mallory thinks free agency is the way to go.
So Mallory after agreeing that now is not the time to win, wants to sign a free agent center. He can’t name one. He wants to sign Spencer Hawes.
Definitely draft a center. Spencer Hawes? No!!!!!
Yes. Timing is the key. Good point.
It is stupid to waste your cap space before your team is ready. Mallory agrees! But then says he wants to sign a FA center that’s good or trade for one that doesn’t make much money. These players do not exist. Then we complain about the draft again. Even though Grant has shown a tremendous ability to judge and draft talent.
Can’t make it through this podcast. Must make it through. Trying hard…
More complaining about the draft. Yes, Darko was a bust. More glorifying Andy, a player who has barely played the last two years.
Can’t make it. I give up. Missed my shout out. Sorry.
This is hilarious.
Tom, I think you had some good insights on the podcast, once you got past the first 3/4 of it and talked about the timing for the team to win. Nice job.
Mallory, please go back and listen to this. You talk over Tom, shout out stuff (and are close to the microphone so it rips my ears apart), and contradict yourself constantly.
OK, took a much needed break to go run screaming through the office, made it to the end. Thanks for mentioning me and thanks for the podcast. Hopefully next time you can do one after a Cavs win.
I’ve been reading this blog since it was born. Thought Krolik did a fine job creating this space and giving voice to the fanbase. As a lifelong Cavs fan living on on the west coast, I’ve been really glad to have this website for perspectives on games I can’t see (which is most of them these days). The writing has been engaging and often passionate. Though I don’t always agree with the opinions of the various writers, it’s nice to know some people still really care about the Cavs. That’s not a given for a team with a 16 and 35 record and history of near-misses, flameouts, and disappointments. Yes, I cried when Jordan made that shot over Craig Ehlo and watched, speechless, at the tragic theater that was The Decision.
But the cols vs. mallory (or cols vs CtB, depending) subplot is not really working for me. Can you guys–especially you, cols–reign it in. Make your point, give your reasons, and ignore each other. Lay off the snark. I can hangout on the ESPN discussion boards if I want senseless melodrama. Don’t ruin the fun; it’s all we got. Well, fun and hope.
So… Cols is not a fake character you guys came up with to spice up the blog? :)
How many posts this time?
Cols, if you are so unhappy… just recognize two things;
1) You are never going to change the CtB writers’ minds
2) You are pissing off other people who might have actually agreed with you… now I have to assume you’re a troll
(it was funnier when I thought you were a sock puppet, LOL)
For what it’s worth, I enjoy the podcasts. And they’re getting better. Kudos to Mallory for setting them up.