I used this picture recently, but it is appropriate today. All-Star weekend does not know what it hath wrought.
First, Kyrie made the All-Star game. Yay!!
Second, recent discussions led me to briefly peruse the C:tB archives. One article I looked at was my preseason predictions. Writing articles like these provides future humor, as even a great result probably nets half failure. So far, my tally doesn’t seem poor, but for a full re-visit I will wait until season end. At the midway point of the season, the predictions proving most accurate relate to Tristan. My 11 points, 9 rebounds, 47% fg and 57% ft are nearly spot-on with his 10.6, 9.3, 48.6 and 62.4.
Those lucky guesses are ironic considering this blog featured 100% of the writers being wrong about Tristan 100% of the time. Anyways, I hope Tristan continues his recent play and blows my pre-season expectations out of the water.
Really, this article is barely one. Here are some bullets on the Trade and the Draft.
On the trade
- So, two NBA rotation players, a 21 year-old project and a future first rounder, all for Jon Leuer? It’s a deal! Cleveland gets immediately deeper and adds another draft pick. I may quit proposing trade scenarios. It’s fun, but they invariably never happen, and Chris Grant doesn’t need the help.
- A couple of weeks ago, I noted the Cavs floor spacing woes. At that time, of the front-court, Walton paced the group with 37% efG from fifteen feet and out. Well, Speights provides 48%. The backcourt struggled with Waiters offering 43% and Gee, 42. Ellington is a three-point marksman; his 55% slides in behind Kyrie on that list. This acquisition definitely makes it easier to keep two or three shooters on the court at all times.
- Where do the minutes come from? Luke Walton is averaging 18 minutes per game in January, Zeller is at 35, and Gee runs for 31. Arguably, that is more than any needs to play in an NBA game. Take thirty minutes between that group, and the shavings that Casspi gets, and suddenly Cleveland can goes nine or ten deep.
- What the new guys offer in shooting, they lack in passing. Speights ranks 67th of 75 power forwards in assist rate. Ellington sits 60th of 66 shooting guards. Shooting typically proves more important that assist rate, but it will be interesting to view the offense. Most nights, the Cavs are already not a top-notch ball movement group; assisting on 55% of made field goals places them 27th in the NBA.
- Both players are young, and based on available statistics, appear to have made strides on defense this year. Neither is great, but they should not be liabilities at that end.
- It also strikes me as slightly interesting that Cleveland now employs four of the top-25 players from the high school class of 2010. How long has Josh Selby known Kyrie, Dion, and Tristan? Does this aid his chance at success at all?
- And now, the draft picks. Cleveland has so many of them. There have been times when I have advocated for trading some, because obviously the Cavs can not add 15 players in the next four drafts. As noted above though, I may quit the trade machine…in Grant we trust. The draft picks offer so many options, including facilitating a major trade for a star. One aspect of having extra picks in distant seasons is the cheap role players that could be added through them. Late first rounders are locked into contracts around 4 years and $5 million total. Second rounders net 3 years and $2.5 million-ish. For years, the Spurs have made great use of plugging in around their superstars with young, late picks. When George Hill neared time for an extension, they traded him for Kawhi Leonard. Dejuan Blair, Danny Green, and Gary Neal have filled valuable roles on cheap, rookie contracts. Essentially, it allowed the Spurs to compete forever and rarely sniff the luxury tax. In 2015 – 2016, Kyrie and Tristan could begin extensions. Dion and the 2013 lottery pick linger after that. An expensive guy acquired through free agency or a trade may arrive. If Cleveland can continue to parlay current assets into 2015 – 2017 draft picks, it enables multiple opportunities to add cheap role players on contracts from 2015 through 2020. Ideally, this maintains a deep bench without splurging on overpaid mid-level veterans.
All-in-all, it is a hugely positive trade, even though we all have a small hole in our hearts where Jon Leuer once resided.
On the Draft
My draft writing will not be extensive this year. Last year, I closely watched games from many players. It was fun and informative, but also very time consuming. Too time consuming. This year, I will wait until April, and then dive in. Obviously, the draft looms large though. Even with their recent wins, the Cavs sit 3.5 games behind the 4th worst team in the League. Despite the Lakers struggles, Cleveland readies to draft 3rd, 28th, 33rd and 36th, so there are lots of possibilities for late June. Packaging picks to ensure two relatively high first-rounders is again an option, or maybe the team facilitates a big trade. Let’s take a quick look at two guys projected near the top of the lottery.
Coming out of high school, Shabazz Muhammad ranked a unanimous #1 or #2 from the high school class of 2012. Combining great length & strength for a shooting guard, and also a quick first step, he is a threat to score from anywhere on the court. In high school, his defensive intensity was lauded. Turning nineteen this past November, his early play at UCLA impresses, posting a proficient 110 offensive rating with primetime usage of 29. He shoots exceptionally from three, drilling 46%, and also gets to the free throw line six times per game. Downsides include leaving much of the box score blank: 0.8 assists & 0.5 steals per game, and 1 total block on the season. Also, UCLA played only the NCAA’s 69th strongest schedule so far. He is big, and a very talented scorer though, and if the Cavs were fortunate enough to pick in the top 3, he fits with the Kyrie / Dion backcourt. For some stretches every game, the trio could play together. Assuming Shabazz’s shooting stays strong, the combination of ball-handling and floor-spacing offered by a Kyrie, Dion, Shabazz line-up sounds awesome. Otherwise, those three form a three man back-court rotation to rave about, possibly with Dion occupying the super sixth-man / crunch time role that appears as his forte.
Reading the Draft Express archives delivers interesting tidbits on Ben McLemore. Old for a freshman, he turns 20 in February due to sitting out one season for academic eligibility reasons. His original high school was shut down by the State, before he transferred to Oak Hill where he was dismissed for rules violations. Next, he was arrested for failing to show up to court for an underage alcohol offense. Ok, a rough beginning to his basketball playing life, but I like players that rise up from hard starts. He is an outstanding athlete, with decent size for a shooting guard, standing 6′ – 4.5″ tall. His speed and leaping, combined with excellent shooting makes for an exciting package. His 51 / 45 / 87 line helps build a sterling 121 offensive rating on 23 usage. He rebounds well for a guard and pitches in 2 assists, 1 block and 1 steal per game. According to statsheet.com, Kansas has been +264 when he plays, and only +20 during the nine minutes per game when he sits. Draftexpress describes his defense as having “excellent potential”, but with “positioning, focus, and awareness leaving a bit to be desired at times”. This is probably reasonable from a twenty year old; his athleticism should be supplemented with some smarts and hopefully a stronger motor as he ages. My early inclination is that he offers a worse fit with Kyrie & Dion than Shabazz does. An athletic break-runner & finisher with deep-range is always cool though.
Cavs fans: Who do you like in the draft at the midpoint of the season?
Well, I did it. Atonement at last! I took accountability and said that everything written at C:tB about Tristan was wrong! A weight has been lifted from my shoulders!!
Now we can all move on.
Who do you like in the draft?
To be honest, I’m kind of annoyed that the whining in the comments was even addressed. But I’m not going to go on and on about it for eternity. I forgive you Kevin. Though there will be struggles, I shall move on.
As far as the draft, no idea. I hope some of these picks will be included in trades to acquire good role players, if not stars.
I’m pretty excited for this draft even though it’s being panned because it lacks a true franchise player. According to the pundits there wasn’t a franchise player in the 2011 draft either and Kyrie’s most appropriate comp was Mike Conley. I’m really not interested in Cody Zeller. The idea of having twin tower sunscreen brothers is probably marketable for pierogi night at Tremont Taphouse (best pierogis ever), but I haven’t seen the upside thus far with Cody. Noel would be interesting. He’s raw on offense but would pair with Tristan to form a scary post defense. I’d be happy with Muhammad or McLemore (in that order). I still think Shabazz is a shooting guard and not a SF. Either way that would form one hell of an athletic three guard rotation. Anthony Bennet is the shit. I get a lot of UNLV games in LA and I’ve been really impressed. Inside/outside game. Above the rim. Hits the boards. He reminds me of Larry Johnson except that Bennet is Canadian so he doesn’t have any of that American thuggery to him. The difference between Detroit and Windsor is striking.
We also now know that Grant is a stats geek after the advanced stats which interested him in Tristan and DWait. If a guy projected in the top 10 tests off the charts analytically, he’ll probably be the pick.
Well the Cavs biggest needs are SF and C. Tristan and Andy – as effective as they are – are a little bit too undersized to up against the REALLY big boys in the NBA and both are a bit below the rim. You see how well CP3 does with above the rim finishers. I think Kyrie could use one sneaking in from the weakside when the dominant dribblers draw some attention.
Kevin, I’m curious why you think another high usage wing is a good “fit” with Kyrie and Dion – who are both pretty high usage. I am inclined to think someone like MKG/Shawn Marion would be great – someone to do all the dirty work, place insane D, get up and down the court and yeah pop in the occasional spot up shot versus clearing everyone out at the top of the key. Maybe Shabazz is that guy and I just don’t see it?
here’s Ford on McLemore:
Michael (Columbus)
Ben McLemore seems to have the top scoring potential in this years draft class. Think he has a solid chance to be the #1 overall pick?
Chad Ford (1:43 PM)
I do. In fact he’s strongly trending in that direction. I spoke with five different GMs this week who told me they’d take him No. 1. Nerlens Noel, Shabazz Muhammad and Alex Len are all in that mix as well, but personally, McLemore has been the best college player I’ve watched this season. I love him. A great combination of athleticism, length, shooting ability, ball handling and defense. He has the chance to be a very special player at a position that’s been very weak over the last five years.
Oh Cory – I went to Tremont Taphouse over Christmas. Great beer selection! Food I had was very good too (had a burger)
I love McLemore, but I was thinking they’d go big. Either Len or Noel would be a fun addition.
I think Noel, then Len, then Shabazz is my pick.
Noel’s ceiling is crazy, clearly, and Len I think would be a good complement to Tristan at both ends of the floor.
Shabazz has the best name ever. That plants him firmly at #3 for me.
Another angle that we’ve discussed before is that #2 picks (and even late #1′s) could be used to build a pool of Euro draftees to ‘park’ for the future. Rather than have just 1 (like Sasha Kaun) if the Cavs had 4-5-6 guys stashed, the odds are decent at least one will pan out enough to bring over.**
IIRC, the Cavs front office really liked N Mirotic who got picked mid-1st despite not being available for 3 years or so.
Still seems a cheap way to build a farm team of sorts.
** but succeed so much that the NBA = a pay cut ;)
I think if they leave a hole at the 3 by picking Muhammad or Maclemore then I think we will make a move to get LeBron back. Because Bennett and Poythress are my picks if we aren’t going that route.
for example, ESPN lists a couple for this year who appear to need ‘polish’ but might be useful in 2-3 years?
Dario Saric 6-10 SF
Sergey Karasev 6-7 SG
I’m all about them taking the best available player. Reaching for need is how passing on Durant and Jordan happens. It won’t be a point guard. If its a 2 like McLemore or Muhammad fine. If it’s a 4 like Bennet great. You can always trade a talented player later. No one wants a mediocre guy you reached for. Plus they still have 30 million to address SF and C via trade if need be. I still like the idea of helping the Mavs out salary-wise and taking Marion off their books so they can go wild in free agency. Marion would only have one year left on his deal and would be an idea SF for this team. Veteran. Solid D. Could stretch the floor. I haven’t been impressed with the SFs like Polythress and Porter. There really isn’t a center in the East who will kill you on offense other than Lopez. Garnett is fading and Chandler doesn’t take over games on the offensive end.
@Tom Went to the Taphouse over my Mancation to Cleveland. Was pretty hammered after a trip to Great Lakes and being on only 2 hours of sleep in two nights but it was great.
I like the idea of stashing a Euro with that second pick. The Bulls have one of the best young assets in the league right now with Mirotic. The Cavs could let Saric develop for a few years then bring them over as a cheap infusion of talent.
We should draft Noel. Defense is a huge need and Nerlens has proven to be the best defensive player in college basketball.
Cavs need a defensive big man/powerful finisher. That’s basically Noel’s profile. Trade up if you need to, CG.
Lot of bigs this year, Im sure we’ll get at least one of them between Zeller, Austin, Noel, Len and Gobert. I like Otto Porter if we can’t get Shabazz, reminds me of Tay Prince or a Nic Batum.
Noel/Shabazz/McLemore/Otto Porter is a do it all legit 3. The pick will be a wing if we are not #1
Tom,
I don’t know…it worked for OKC with Westbrook, Harden and Durant? All three players would need to commit to defense.
Tom,
My thought process was tied to Muhammad being 6′ 6″ with a nearly 7′ wingspan. I think the Cavs could get away with playing him, Kyrie and Dion together for 12 minutes per game. The rest of the game, two of them play together at a time. Kyrie gets 38 minutes, Dion 35 and Shabazz 35 or something.
Shabazz and McLemore make sense. Noel and Len do as well, but two things to consider:
1) Centers take longer to develop. Shabazz and McLemore would have a more immediate impact. If the Cavs are going to make a playoff push starting next season, would drafting a center set them back a season?
2) There are two quality centers available in FA: Jefferson and Pekovic. They will be expensive. But the Cavs will have the cap space to sign them.
McLemore has been an absolute stud. If the Cavaliers can, they should draft him. Even if that means trading Waiters, I’m fine with it.
Windhorst said on the radio a few days ago that the Cavs will look to trade for a second star. Dion (or this draft pick, should it fall out of range of getting McLemore or Shabazz) would be the main ammunition. I can see Al Horford being available if the Hawks either a) Sign DH12 and Josh Smith to max contracts in the offseason, or b) lose Smith and decide to bottom out and rebuild.
I still like Rudy Gobert, but he might be a bigger project than Noel. They don’t seem to be coaching him up very well in France, and under the right tutelage, he might blossom. C.J. McCullom would not be a bad pick if he’s there for our 2nd first rounder. He’d be a nice combo guard off the bench. I also like Doug McDermott as a second round floor spacer. This is definitely a draft for roleplayers, and Nerlens Noel is probably the biggest one in the draft, but his floor as a defense first big is pretty high. Gorgui Dieng out of Louisville is another defensive specialist with nice numbers. Mike Muscala out of Bucknell is getting comparisons to Vucevic: a fundamentally sound big who can score, rebound, and block shots. Michael Carter-Williams out of Syracuse is a backup point guard project with ridiculous assist and steal numbers, but he can’t shoot. Erick Green out of Virginia Tech is leading the country in scoring, and still shooting 49% from the floor. He chips in 4.4 assists, 1.5 steals…. He’s another bench combo guard worth looking at because his senior year numbers are really sharp. Deshaun Thomas is having a nice season… This is actually a good draft to have multiple 2nd rounders in. I imagine the players from 20-40 will all be about the same.
On the high end, I guess it’s Shabbazz, Noel, Poythress… I don’t especially love anyone else, and think McLemore has too many character issues (possibly true of Carter-Williams too). I like Plumlee’s rebound rate… It is a pretty weak draft. It should make for a good tournament though. Guys will be able to play themselves in and out of the first round. There is going to be a ton of flux outside of the top 5.
If we can package some of our late picks to move up like we did with Zeller, great. But when drafting foreign players, 2nd round picks, especially high ones are gold. As Rick in Boise notes, sometimes coming to the NBA is a pay cut, but with a 2nd round pick the contract is negotiable. I definitely see the Cavs drafting and stashing a lot in the coming years.
Cory, I don’t know how positional need affected jordan’s drafting, but Oden was considered every bit as good of a prospect as Durant, and honestly if he had stayed healthy might have lived up to it even with Durant being a legit MVP candidate. The guy was an absolute terror on offense and defense which is such a rarity for any center now-a-days, and in his first 82 games posted a 19 PER which doesn’t account much for his defense or the fact that big’s usually take longer to develop. Hindsight it 20-20 though. Man I really wish Oden could have stayed healthy, and am really hoping for the tiny chance he does from here on out. Give him a chance Grant! A relatively cheap chance!
Another issue to consider. I think Noel or most other centers will cause a slight problem with TT. He has no range, most good defensive bigs don’t have range, and this will clog the paint for both bigs as well as Kyrie and Dion. I wonder how much of Thompson’s offensive success has come because playing with Zeller or Walton prevents the other big from helping off as much as they did with Andy.
Might still be worth it, a TT-Noel back court could be awful nice defensively. Just something to consider.
As to the Oden/Durant debate, I disagree. There were glaring signs that Oden was going to have health problems and that Kevin Durant was the new wave of the NBA. Oden was drafted because of old NBA thought on inside/out play. Bill Simmons’ greatest coup was correctly calling Durant/Oden and shouting it from the rooftops. I specifically remember him saying to the effect, “why would you pass on the most sure fire NBA star since LeBron for a guy who looks and walks like he’s 36?” I’m surprised he doesn’t toot his own horn about this more often. Probably can’t because Oden’s been a borderline tragedy. Oden had one leg that was noticeably longer than the other (still does). How does this not raise red flags?
This is one reason I’m really liking Chris Grant and trust that he usually knows more than I do: he doesn’t go with the conventional wisdom. He takes the guy that all his data points toward being the right guy.
I don’t see why they wouldn’t draft Noel or Len. They are both big, good defensively and on the boards, and have offensive upside. I think this is the direction they take.
Some draft thoughts-
- I would stay clear of Noel. The comparisons to Unibrow are overblown. Just because he has the height and shot blocking ability doesn’t make him the same player. He can’t shoot, has no ball skills, and doesn’t have the intensity that AD has. I think he’s a likely draft bust. At best, he’s a long-term project….we already have two of those on the front line. No thanks.
- Cody Zeller is basically a (better) clone of his brother. While I like him, I’d see the two of them together as redundant. Of the center options, I like Alex Len. However, Len is more a traditional center….and the Cavs are being built to run. I’d question the fit there.
- I like McLemore, but don’t see the point in drafting him after taking Waiters last year.
- I’m intrigued by Shabazz. At first I didn’t want him at all, seeing him at 6’6” as a SG….but most reports I read classify him as a traditional SF. If that’s the case, OK, he fills a need….but now you’re a bit undersized at both wing positions with Waiters. He does bring some shooting, which we need, but he’s another ball dominant scorer. If Shabazz, Waiters and Irving are on the court together, they might need to have more than one ball on the court. What I like about him though, is the competitiveness. He’s got a Jordan-esque chip on his shoulder. That’s always good for a team. If he’s there when the Cavs draft, I wouldn’t be opposed to the pick, but there are a lot of risks.
- And so we come to the guy I’m enamored with, that I have yet to see mentioned on this board: Otto Porter. Good height for a SF (6’8”), good Hoops IQ, willing defender, and a total stat sheet stuffer….outstanding AST, STL and BLK for his position. He’s a bit under-the-radar because he only averages 13 pts, but that’s more due to the Georgetown system than anything else. Shoots 42% from downtown. He’s a total glue-guy. I’d prefer not to add another ball-dominant (Shabazz) player; anyone else that takes the ball out of Kyrie’s hands I’m starting to see as a detriment. You can’t stick a team of 5 great scorers out on the floor and expect them to be great- you need guys who do the little things. Porter is drawing a lot of favorable comparisons to Scottie Pippen. That’s my guy.
So he’s tops on my list, and should be there anywhere in the top 5. Now, he won’t fill our biggest need- outside shooting. I’d love to see the Cavs take a flier on their second pick with Doug McDermott. Yes, he’s one dimensional, but most shooters are. I look at him and see Wally Sczcerbiak. If the Lakers don’t make the playoffs and net us a mid-teens pick, we should have enough to package together to move up and take him.
So let it be written….so let it be done.
The problem with Maclemore, who is easily my favorite player in this draft (the guy is an efficient scorer who plays D. What more can you ask for?!) is that we already used a top 4 pick on a SG – it makes NO sense to use another one.
Mallory,
I think they’d take McLemore if they thought he was going to be great. NBA teams don’t pass on players if they think they are going to be really good. A three guard rotation of Irving, Waiters, and McLemore would be pretty awesome.
However, I think they go big because there are 3 legit centers in the draft and that doesn’t happen all that often.
@ grover, mallory
Drafting McLemore would allow the Cavs to keep bringing Dion off the bench. True, he has accepted it grudgingly. But he has played better ever since. Harden and Ginobili were excellent 6th men that really helped their teams. Dion could be as well.
Nate smith, I doubt highly that Grant’s advanced stats include differences between leg lengths or properly account for “looking and walking like a 36 year old”. Advanced stats were probably pulling for the guy. Yes, the health thing was a red flag, undoubtedly. I won’t argue that. But I don’t think the pick was made on a positional basis, and if Greg could have avoided that red flag, which many players marked with injury history do, he very well could be an MVP level player, and from the glimpses we actually saw from him would have at least been a perennial all-star. Simmons says as many boneheaded things as he says correct things, him simply stating it as obvious did not make it so. A blind squirrel will find a nut once in while. Obviously picking him over Durant was a mistake. Again, hindsight is 20-20.
Grover, I like the Otto Porter mention. If he could maintain that outside touch he has now, (45%) he would be an ideal SF going forward. efficient low usage, size, range, defense, rebounds and a few assist. His low # of 3pt attempts (40), FT% (68%) and previous performance from 3 (23% last year) make me doubt his ability to stretch the floor though, and that might take him out of my top 4 or 5. But I’d be happy with him if the cavs end up picking later.
I also dissagree that inside/out play is old-school. Who were the last championship teams? Miami, where lebron won his first championship by learning to play in the post, and was surrounded Bosh and 3pt shooters, creating a very effective inside-out game. Before that was Dallas, who used Dirk and chandler as powerful post presences and who’s primary driving player was.. jason terry or jason kidd. Then there was Celtics (garnett) and the Lakers (Gasol/Odem/Bynum)…
Ya, I don’t think post play and an inside out game is all that old fashioned.
And KD had flags too (remember how he couldn’t bench 175 once and how people thought he’d get bullied around out there?) One’s materialized, the others didn’t.
KSwI
Yep, drafting, especially in the NBA is tough and of course people are going to miss. We can ding the GMs for this because they are really supposed to know, but it wasn’t like Durant was THE surefire pick. Lots of people would have taken Oden.
Same goes in the 2011 draft. Yes, Grant made the right pick with Irving, but there were tons of people who thought they should take Derrick Williams or someone else there.
The NBA is just a hard league to draft for.
KSI: Point taken on inside/out play. My one quibble with your rebuttal is that injury proneness and predictability is a trackable advanced stat. Every GM worth his salt better know the odds of coming back from different injuries successfully, what different physiological conditions can lead to, recovery times, odds of full recovery, etc., and how past injury contributes to future injury proneness. They’ve been doing this in baseball for a while. It’s callous but necessary. For instance, David Kahn looks pretty dumb for the Brandon Roy situation right now. But, everyone involved with the situation green flagged Oden. Still, I wonder how much group think was happening.
As for KD’s bench press, I remember that and lots of people saying, “He’s a 7 foot shooting guard. Who cares?” And also remarking how his arms were so long that bench press would be an issue. But your point about cherry picking info in hindsight is legit. KD/Oden for me is like JJ Hickson for Pestak. I can’t let it go. I think it’s a Sonics thing.
Grover: Nice find on Otto Porter. Dude’s a super efficient stat stuffer with an NBA small forward body. He could probably run at the 4 in a small lineup too. Have to keep him on my radar.
Funny, I said the other day that you, Kevin, were the one writer on here who I thought was not overly negative and got things right but then you came back and said that no, you didn’t get TT right! Then today you write…that you got TT right? So, I was right to single you out? Hmmm…
Such pissy attitudes and a few straw men as well, Kevin. Pretty sure I’ve been commenting on this blog as long, if not longer, than anyone and I find the defensive, pissy tone of the writers when challenged to be the most frustrating and disappointing aspect of the blog. Perhaps I expect too much considering the writers’ ages? I assume you’re all 20-something’s? I don’t mean for that to sound as condescending as it may appear, honestly.
Btw, now that Hollinger has taken his talents to Houston, does his draft rater go with him? Or is it a work-for-hire thing where ESPN keeps the things he developed while working for him? As many know, Holliger’s draft rater loved Kyrie and Dion and liked TT quite a bit too.
Cody -
I’ve thought of that, for sure, but you have to think in terms of minutes. Manu was great off the bench because he still covered the vast VAST majority of minutes at the SG position. Lets say Maclemore gets 33 a night. Kyrie plays 35-40 a night. Waiters should get around 30 as well. He could back Kyrie up for the 5-10 minutes Kyrie sits, and then the 15ish MacLemore is on the bench too. What about that last 10ish minutes? MacLemore would have to play SF, which would yield a really small lineup, blah blah blah.
The other issue I have is that I don’t think you draft someone at the #4 spot with the intention of making him a bench player. I think that sets a bad precedent.
Finally, iF, thinking ahead, we were to extend all three players, you’d have the vast majority of your cap allocated to two positions.
Again, I LOVE Maclemore – his game is incredible. He’s so smart about how he plays OFF the ball, which is rare for a college guy, and he’s still good at creating his own shot with the ball in his hands. I just don’t think, unfortunately, he’s what the Cavs need.
I just think there are too many
Yeah Oden was like Dwight Howard plus 3 inches. You don’t pass on that. His body has forsaken him. I feel bad for the guy
SwIrving – TT and Andy haven’t played much together ever. The idea that TT suddenly improved from the way he looked all last season plus the first 6 weeks of this season because Varejao went down doesn’t really make sense to me. But I agree with your logic that having 2 lane cloggers can make life difficult.
Injury history has to be taken into account when drafting, but Oden had a wrist injury which aren’t commonly reocurring, and I don’t know how much precedence or data there is to draw from on One-Leg-2-inches-longer-than-the-other or 19-year-old-who-looks-36.
And you were a Sonics fan? Or are just focusing on portland passing on both KD and Jordan? Yeah, they have bad luck. I also don’t think their trainers/climate are very good on players knees. I hear cold and humid is bad for the joints. Surprised there isn’t more study on that. Phoenix seems to be where injured guys go to rejuvinate their careers, Portland seems to be where young guys go to have their legs give out on them. Could be coincidence…
I grew up in Alaska. The Sonics were the only team on TV regularly, though I was a Celtics fan. After I moved here, I adopted the Cavs, but pulled for the Sonics out of regional loyalty. Because I like to be put upon I am more of a post Sonics fan than I ever was a Sonics fan. Sonics-gate and the Tacoma City Plunder are up there with the LeBrocalypse for me: unforgivable. So as a post Sonics fan I obsess over Durant not being in the Pac-NW. I know, that’s some convoluted pathos.
Lots of people thought Durant was better than Oden. But there were questions about both. With Durant – will he be able to create any space at the NBA level with such a frail physique? Will HE be injury prone as the toll of being a high usage scorer and weighing 165 lbs start to create nagging injuries. No one questioned his shooting or scoring prowess – but there were questions about him at the next level.
Oden’s questions were all injury related (in that his injuries may have precluded him from showing off his real potential) but I really don’t think the glaring red flags that everyone sees now were apparent back then. His wrist injury in college wasn’t seen as a flag at all. Some said it raised his stock because it showed off his ambidextrous shooting. He was considered MORE of a defensive game changer than Dwight Howard and Anthony Davis. Think about that. And he had touch around the rim, was an awesome passer, and was lauded as a high-character guy. To say it drafting him was a mistake because of prior knowledge is a bit disingenuous. At the time, both guys were considered future perennial all-stars.
@Cody-
It’s not quite as simple as taking McLemore to start and having Dion be an asset of the bench will work. You site examples such as Harden and Ginobli being successful SGs off the bench. You’re right, they were successful….but while they positionally came off the bench, they play starter’s minutes. The starting SGs on those teams only play 15-20 minutes a night. If you draft McLemore- a true SG- that means the Cavs basically concede that they invested at least one top-5 pick on a guy they intend to only get 15-20 minutes a night (either McLemore or Waiters, as they both can’t really be on the court at the same time). That’s not a successful use of a top-5 pick.
If we like McLemore that much, then great….but that means we have to trade Waiters. I think that’s highly unlikely.
Kj,
I’m 33.
The other day, you said that I was the only writer that said Thompson was a “great pick”. I corrected you, and said I never called it a “great pick”, but always thought he would be “fine”. When I projected 11 & 9 on 47% field goals for his age 21 season, that was certainly something that I deemed the season of a “fine” player. My responses have been consistent and you are arguing against mis-quotes of me.
Mallory
Are you nuts? Do you not think they could figure out a 3 guard rotation if they thought McLemore was going to be great? I assure you they can easily figure a way to give 3 awesome guards enough minutes if they had too.
That being said, I don’t see them taking McLemore unless they absolutely think he’s awesome.
Cols -
It’s incredibly hard to balance 3 top 5 picks who all play the same position – I don’t think I’ve ever seen it done successfully. There just aren’t enough minutes/shots to go around.
Is anyone concerned about the off-court issues McLemore experienced prior to this season?
@Danny link to that Windhorst radio broadcast?
Kevin – yes I am worried. If he wins multiple nobel prizes while starting in the NBA and solves world hunger – please find a way to delete this comment so that I never have to apologize for my concern. That’s really all I care about.
Come to think of it, so long as he doesn’t murder anyone WHILE he’s playing basketball on national television the above “character” concerns might be too hyperbolic. So I’ll go with “N/A” Besides, all young players improve.
@ Brandon
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=476&f=1004181