Over the last two years, I wrote numerous draft profiles for Cavs:the Blog. Typically, in 1000 words or so, I would overview a player’s statistical accomplishments, but also provide a detailed look at a couple of their games. As I dwelled on the status of the ever-fascinating Tristan Thompson, I decided to provide similar content, but instead with articles focusing on the Cavaliers youngsters. Over the next month, I will pen an extensive overview on Tristan, Kyrie, Dion and Tyler (this one surpasses 2000 words. I really wanted to provide the full TT experience).
Tristan Thompson entered the league with a dossier of being an athletic, defense first player, with great work ethic, excellent offensive rebounding instincts, and an otherwise non-developed repetoire. Oh, and poor free throw shooting. So far, he checks each of those boxes. Part of the genesis of this series was to provide a fair take on Tristan’s greatest skills: man-to-man and team defense, as they are otherwise unlikely to result in glowing narrative. As TT approaches his 22nd birthday, how does his progress look?
On offense: Thompson battles issues with scoring the ball. According to ESPN, of 75 qualified power forwards, his true shooting percentage ranks 47th, despite using only the 56th highest frequency of possessions. The TS% serves as a significant improvement over last year, however that is aided by a 4% reduction in his usage rate. His 56% career free-throw shooting has not helped, but he converted 62% this month. Struggles with quickly collecting passes and attacking, or innovating when his shot isn’t there, lead to obscene amounts of his shots getting blocked (10th most in the NBA through 12/17).
He shines as an offensive rebounder though, proving his elite collegiate skill transitions to the NBA. Of 327 qualified NBA players this year, his rebounding rate ranks 24th. As a willing pick setter, and a player constantly battling to extend possessions through his board-work, he offers some offensive benefits.
On defense: Undoubtedly where Thompson butters his bread, he shows skill as a team defender, and although he blocks less shots, his defensive rebounding has increased dramatically this season. Combined with good man-to-man and rotation defense, I prefer the rebounding to the shot blocking, anyways. Thanks to this recent Andy-less stretch, his defensive rebounding rate currently exceeds two-thirds of NBA power forwards. On-court / off-court numbers shine a favorable light; according to RAPM splits, he is nearly a league-average player, as his defensive contributions offset the offensive subtractions. Not a bad place to be for a player still in the upward arc of his career.
To bolster this discussion, how about some game recaps?
December 21, 2012 – Cleveland vs Indiana – Closely watching the nuances of Tristan’s game is not the most pleasurable way to watch basketball, but it is insightful. Primarily defending David West, he occasionally switched onto Roy Hibbert. In the first quarter, he flashed his burgeoning array of defensive skills. Holding his ground in the post, he forced ugly West & Hibbert misses; after containing George Hill off a pick, he quickly rotated back to contest his man at the basket; constant effort resulted in a defensive rebound in transition and an offensive rebound. On offense, he missed one ugly right-handed hook shot, and ended the quarter with 0 points and 3 rebounds.
The second quarter continued to offer hedge-and-recover highlights (?), as Tristan twice impacted the same possession in the back-court and at the rim; I envision Andy as Yoda in this development. Remember when you were taught to drive a car, and the instructor told you to look forward for two seconds, then check your rearview mirrors, then the speedometer, then the side-views, before doing it all again? That is how Tristan looks on defense, very attentive, with his head & eyes continually moving. It allowed him to bail out Zeller once thanks to solid help (TT was called for a ‘good’ foul on the play). He thwarted a fast-break with a block, and Thompson’s stamp was all over holding Indiana to 44 first-half points. This quarter also featured 3-of-3 shooting from Tristan, including a two-dribble righty hook, and a right-handed baseline drive & dunk that made me yell, “OHHH!”. Didn’t Tristan used to be left handed? I recall Nate Smith last year, as commenter HoopsDogg, repeatedly saying that Cleveland needed to tear Tristan’s offensive game down and turn him into a righty. Did they do this? He goes right a lot more often than left this year. Maybe I made this whole thing up.
For the team and Tristan, things unraveled in the third quarter. Tristan tossed one shot off the side of the backboard, and on a righty-drive, Hibbert swatted TT’s heave. He tried to throw an alley-oop to Kyrie; this seems backwards and did not end well. On a Pacer fast-break, Tristan seemed non-recognitive of the ball, which resulted in an and-one, and on another possession, I thought he missed a rotation, allowing an unobstructed Hibbert dunk.
Early in the fourth off a pass, Tristan missed a short, lefty finish, but wrestled the offensive board and completed an and-one. Later from a Kyrie pick-and-roll, he received a pass and was fouled, but missed both freebies. His defensive play resumed solid results; tough post play on West, and a stripped ball on a Tyler Hansbrough drive highlighted the quarter.
Overall for the team, this game was disappointing, but Tristan represented himself reasonably well. Three of five free throws missed the mark, but his twelve rebounds and tough defense helped lock-down David West to 46% true shooting and 2 offensive rebounds, both below his seasonal averages. Tristan’s three turnovers, supplemented by league-average 54% true shooting, did not serve as bastions of efficiency; overall, a fairly representative Tristan game.
December 26, 2012 – Cleveland vs Washington - This tilt started poorly for the team and Tristan. Early, he guarded Nene, with Zeller on Emeka Okafor; when TT hit the pine at 5:54 to go, the Wizard duo had combined for 14 points and 5 rebounds on perfect shooting as Washington stormed to an 18 to 10 lead. Nene faced-up and drove past Tristan for an and-one, and Okafor netted a hook-shot over him. Thompson also rotated late once, allowing an easy Washington layup. He withstood a few other attempted back-downs, forcing the Wizard bigs to abandon their intentions. At the other end, he made a right-handed push shot from the right-block, and tried a righty-drive from 25 feet out. He missed badly, and should avoid isolation drives from outside the three-point line. One play I particularly admired was a choice that Tristan made to pass out of the post as a perimeter player cheated his direction; his look to the corner resulted in a hockey-assist as Gee swung the ball to Kyrie for a three. One benefit of Tristan’s limited post game relies on his making good decisions on when to pass. If he can gain deep position and draw help, then capably pass, it offers a semblance of inside-out play that Cleveland otherwise sorely lacks. His passing has improved this season (although last year it was relatively non-existent).
Thompson played the entire second quarter and things turned brighter. Defensively, he continuously stayed engaged, both on and off the ball, as Washington looked to exploit what they estimated as an edge in the post. In this second stanza, he forced Nene into an ugly shot that glanced off the side of the backboard, and navigated Okafor into a tough 10-foot miss. His pick-and-roll defense disprupted the Wizard flow, routinely keeping the ball handler moving sideways; on one possession, he actually drove the ball-handler to step on the baseline for a turnover, and on another play, he switched and blocked the shot at the rim. Actively seeking out his man and sealing off rebound position nabbed him six defensive boards for the quarter, and also forced the refs to call an over-the-back call on Nene. This was a weakness for him out of college, but an area where significant strides have been accomplished, and this quarter greatly evidenced that. On offense, his lone shot was a badly-missed righty push shot off one-dribble. He gained two free throws, both makes, through backing down Jan Vesely from the three point line, into a push / hook shot from ten feet. It was a bit of a bail-out call, and starting post moves from 22 feet seems non-ideal. On the bright side, he grabbed two offensive boards, and his efforts also resulted in Okafor being unable to corral a rebound and losing it out-of-bounds. Again on a play when a guard cheated towards him in the post, he fired out to Waiters for an open three (it was airballed).
In the next quarter, Thompson’s post defense again stymied the Wiz bigs. Holding his ground against Nene allowed Kyrie to sneak up and steal the ball; Tristan ran the court and got rewarded with free throws. His offense was not pretty, but in this quarter, it was effective. He made a right-handed shot off a pass from Gee; drained a shocking eighteen footer from the baseline; drove from the top of the key, missed, but followed it with a tip-in; and off a pick-and-roll, received the pass twenty feet from the basket, put the ball on the floor, and was stripped for a turnover. Of those four plays, three resulted in buckets, but for the time being, I think only one of them belongs in a good NBA offense. Hopefully we can all agree that Tristan trying to generate offense from outside of 18-feet is not a good idea.
This seems an apt time to explain Tristan’s team-worst plus/minus for that evening; in the first and third quarters, he and Dion played identical minutes (Dion was second-worst for plus/minus). One observation is that Dion performed very passively; two shots at the rim and one assist. The other observation will shock and amaze; Luke Walton is a better passer than Tristan. On this night, the instant that Dion and Tristan subbed out for Boobie and Walton, the offense looked immensely smoother.
The fourth quarter initially featured typical Tristan plays; disruptive pick-and-roll defense, a tip resulting in another Cav grabbing an offensive rebound, a face-up drive that drew a block on Nene (but probably could have gone either way), and a travel when a strong flush seemed possible. And then, the last 3:30 of subtleties (and one highlight):
- On Dion’s huge three to give Cleveland an 82 to 79 lead, Tristan set the back-pick to free him. (As a tangent, closely watching one player really draws focus to how little happens in the Cav offense away from the ball. Tom and Nate discuss this in recaps, but there is not much movement, screening, etc to generate a counter to the pick-and-roll shaping up on the strong-side.
- On Washington’s next possession, with Tristan defending him, Nene made a move, then another, the whole time being forced further from the basket. He jacked up an ugly ten footer and missed.
- The next Cavs possession gives credit to Gee for an offensive rebound, but Tristan caromed the ball to Alonzo.
- Then the BIG PLAY!! Kyrie drives, passes, Tristan catches, goes up strong…is it blocked? NO! AND ONE! Cavs lead 85 to 82 with twenty-four seconds left.
Another solid game for the young big man, as his 15 & 12 provided a fourth-straight double-double. His defensive rebounding effort and fundamentals impressed, and aside from the first six minutes, he helped manage the Washington bigs into 25 points on 26 shots to go with 7 turnovers. His offense proved effective this night, but alot of the plays are still probably best left to the practice court.
Summary: Other than my frustrated day-after-draft reaction, I think my opinion of Tristan has been pretty consistent. Like many observers, I slotted him around eleventh leading up to the draft, as a strong one-way player with raw offense. Really, Tristan is not extremely far from where I hoped to see him progress. Our friend at Fear the Sword, David Zavac, wrote an article about Tristan this summer. The conclusion was that he hoped to see Tristan most improve on defense, and master that side of the ball. I hope TT watches film of himself playing defense, and also Andy, Elton Brand, Kevin Love, and Kevin Garnett. His targets need set on lock-down status and rebounding dominance. On offense, focus on finishing easy ones, taking care of the ball, and making free throws. Hopefully Cleveland adds a few more offensive forces over the years, and Tristan can settle into 13 – 15% usage, finishing offensive rebounds and easy buckets that his teammates generate. If he manages to exceed that, that’s cool, too.

Nice article… I’m ok with the TT pick, playing really well lately, definitely one of the best defenders of that draft class along with Kawhi Leonard… In hindsight, a few guys of that draft may have been good picks for the Cavs… For example, Klay Thompson as a potential backcourt partner for Kyrie, but the guy I’m most surprised about (beside Faried) is Nikola Vucevic, he has a great season in Orlando so far…
I can’t wait till next year’s draft debates, always funny how everyone talks about a certain group of players and the Cavs always pick the totally unexpected players ;-)
I dont know why you mentioned Kevin Love in the group of players TT should watch tape of… I suppose you mean his defensive rebounding… Aside from that, Love’s defense is pretty bad and that’s why I wouldn’t want TT to watch any kind of tape of him…
The 2011 draft was viewed as weak class. The only top shelf talent thus far has been Kyrie and he wasn’t advertised as a franchise player at the time. That class does appear to be deeper than many envisioned, but I don’t think Thompson was a reach. There wasn’t much of a difference between the 4th pick and the 15th. It’s easy to be Monday morning Quarterback and say Jonas was the pick (even if he was before the draft). Has Jonas been better than Tristan? Tristan and Andy’s skills sets overlap a lot. Thompson has been Andy light in Andy’s absence this year and Andy wasn’t capable of Thompson’s current play until five years into his career at a minimum. It’s assumed that Tristan was drafted to replace Hickson, but perhaps he was drafted to replace Andy longterm and the Cavs just haven’t pulled the trigger yet.
I’m also all for the Cavs using their high second round picks on Euro’s and letting them be stashed overseas for awhile. My only regret from the 2011 draft was that the Cavs didn’t draft Nikola Mirovic.
I was hoping they would take Jonas or Kawhi last year so the TT pick was a let down for me, despite all the at the time discussion around his advanced stats. So I’ve never been a huge fan of his but I’ve been hopefully optimistic and I have to say this 4 game stretch (small sample size I know) has been the best basketball he’s played of his career. He looks semi-capable on offense, his defense has improved, and his defensive rebounding prowess is expanding. You can tell he has a better feel for what to do when he gets the ball on offense (still makes some strange decisions i.e. the iso drive from 25 ft away in the washington game) and this is good because he isn’t thinking as much, he’s doing more reading and reacting because he has more confidence in his developing skill set. I’m also thrilled he’s consciously working on not always gathering himself – this was by far the most maddening part of watching TT for the first 1.25 years of his career. He’s so athletic its often unnecessary for him to be able to score by having to gather.
All in all, I think TT is showing the signs of developing into a capable starting 4 in the NBA. He’s never going to be like any other 4 he will get compared to but he doesn’t have to be, he just needs to defend/rebound/get easy buckets, and he’s currently doing that.
A good article. I was firmly in the Derrick Williams/Kemba Walker mindset of that draft, but was expecting Kyrie to be the #1….but then I definately wanted Jonas at #4, so I came away from that draft disappointed.
It’s very safe to say at this point that Kyrie is a special player, and I’m glad we got him. It’s too early to make Jonas/TT comparisons, but I think it’s also safe to say that TT will be a meaningful contributor in his career. The comparisons of TT to a smaller, more athletic Varejao- with a faster learning curve- are reasonable. I know it’s easy to say “we should expect more from a #4 pick”, but coming away with two core players in a single draft- given the rate of full scale busts in the NBA- is no small feat. While I still think Derrick Williams can still develop into a strong player (I’d love to see the Cavs pry him away from the Wolves somehow, and Adelman doesn’t give him consistent minutes), and a Walker/Williams tandem may ultimately still give Irving/TT a run for the money, Grant is to be commended for that draft.
Jury still out on the Waiters/Zeller draft….
Tristan is very much more than holding his own defensively. The guy is 21 and quickly becoming a league-wide force with his man defense while playing against competitors in their athletic and mental prime.
This cannot be overstated.
Everything is not about scoring and this is the reason the Cavs drafted a him. Kevin Love is a great player but is he able to defensively contain the PF and C positions like Tristan?
This is so, so well done.
I have been absolutely thrilled about TT’s newly developed ability to BOX OUT!!! He is a completely different player this year in that regard. It actually blows my mind how many people in the NBA routinely turn and look at the ball without getting a body on someone. I am very pleased TT has improved. (Zeller, for all of his “sound fundamentals” is often totally lazy in this regard).
All the Andy comparisons need to stop immediately. Andy, from day one, has been a plus offensive player. Just because he didn’t shoot the J much, people never really understood what a great positional offensive player he has always been. He has one of the best offensive ratings in Cavs history, and that was before this great season. TT doesn’t have the passing, dribbling, finishing, spacing, screening, basically anything that Andy had even as a rookie. Does that mean TT can’t improve? Of course not, but to compare the two is to display an ignorance to Andy’s skill-set. Even claiming TT to be more athletic is a reach. He can jump higher, and that is about it. I would take Andy’s lateral quickness and general burst over TT. (yes, I am still comparing them at similar points in their careers.)
I like TT. He looks a lot like my brother-in-law which naturally gives me a false familiarity, but beyond that ridiculousness, he works hard and seems like a good kid. I think he can be a solid part of a 3 man big rotation on a great team if he continues to improve. But will never see him initiate the offense with real confidence.
The funny thing is that TT is basically Hickson without he ego. Hick has a much better shot, (though we all know anytime he shoots a J off the bounce it isn’t going in). TT has already shown a better understanding of defensive rotation. But in general they have the same kind of game. Umm…
It’s just the case of the Cavs drafting someone that CTB didn’t think they were going to draft so TT has been overly criticized his entire 1.25 season career.
You can see the same thing happening with Waiters. Because CTB didn’t expect him to be drafted (cookie crumbles???) he gets criticized way way more than if they had taken someone CTB expected.
It really is this simple.
For me, I think Thompson has shown a lot of improvement this year and I think they made the right pick. Same on Waiters, he’s looked phenomenal at times.
Great article. I appreciate that the article avoided comparisons with other players that the Cavs could have drafted. Rather it focused on what TT is bringing to the table, and how he can keep getting better. Good stuff.
A lot of the commenters, however, have compared TT to other players we could have drafted. My two cents: it is an impossibly high standard to expect every pick Grant makes to be better than all players drafted after the pick. No GM can meet that standard. There is always going to be some guy that ends up better. The best you can hope for is that a player achieves a reasonable level of success relative to other players available when he was drafted. I think TT is on that path. He may not be better than every player taken in the top 15 of the 2011 draft, but he definitely belongs in that group. At this stage I hope people will stop second-guessing his selection. It really gets us nowhere, and devolves into the same handful of commenters ramming their heads against the wall. This bogs down more useful discourse.
TT needs to learn to dunk one-handed. He seems to have been afflicted by the “JJ Hickson small hands” curse.
Ultimately, I warmed up to TT early on. I can appreciate the value of a defense first guy, even if it doesn’t always show up in the boxscore. It’s nice to see him get some boxscore and local love for a change. Who knows, maybe, just maybe, he’ll see national recognition in the next 3-4 years. (I suspect that the development of Kyrie/Waiters and an overall improvement in our W/L column will bring that.)
Ben (lol, we probably need to clarify who we are) Andy was not that good of an offensive player. I remember screaming at him for years as to why he was even attempting a 15 foot shot. He was a hustle player (which is not a terrible thing) who relied on his exceptional quickness and excessive energy to get his. He also had one of the best passers in the league (Lebron) getting him easy buckets. Kyrie is ridiculously good, but Lebron is/was better. That made things easier for Andy.
Cols714 – you bring up a great point. Neither TT nor Waiters were expected to be drafted…and because of the initial shock (NOBODY was talking about these guys as Top 5), most people have been up in arms about. I was shocked and initially (day of draft) disappointed with both picks. But very quickly warmed up to both. I trust in what CG has done so far.
I forgot to add that I liked this article. My other comment was in response to people who wish we had drafted someone else and to MF who for some unknown reason refuses to see that Thompson is getting better and Waiters has been pretty good for a rookie guard.
People have brought up Klay Thompson as a supposed better choice, but Tristan has a better PER than him this year, and that doesn’t include his vastly superior defense. TT currently leading the battle of the Thompsons.
Excellent article Kevin, I think your analysis of Tristan is spot on.
I do find it interesting though how many people are becoming impressed with Tristan because of the stats he is putting up now that Andy is out (this is a general observation, not specific to this article). I would argue that he’s putting up a lot of those stats BECAUSE Andy is out. That isn’t to say that TT hasn’t been getting better, he absolutely has, but Andy is such a presence on the court that he’s going to pilfer rebounds and get tip-ins that Thompson could have had if Andy wasn’t there.
And to your point Nathan, I’d rather have Waiters long-term than Thompson. With his athleticism and ability, I think it’s only a matter of time before the NBA IQ gets to the level where Waiters can be a consistent force. He has the ability to live at the free throw line once he becomes more savvy at drawing fouls, which is the key to winning championships in the NBA. Teams that are good at hitting jump shots but bad at getting to the free throw line typically don’t win anything.
That is interesting Nathan. Tristan was the 4th pick, and who do we actually know will have a better career that was take in the draft? Kyrie is honestly the only done deal.
Faried – 2 years older than Tristan, really bad defensively.
Klay Thompson – as Nathan pointed out, underwhelming a little bit, can’t defend (yet. he has good length but not great athleticism)
Leonard – Could be very good, but does get to play in San Antonio in a good (the best) system.
Jonas – Maybe? all seems pretty theoretical with him at the moment.
In the meantime, Derrick Williams, Enes Kanter, Jan Vesely have been mediocre to abysmal
Nice piece Kevin, I did generally say that about his right handedness, and Austin Carr speaks of it often: basically when TT shoots right handed the ball has more arc and spin. It’s much flatter when he shoots left. I thought the difference could most directly be applied to the free throw line, but his ability to harness it it around the basket has been nice.
Venus made a very good point about his inability to finish one handed. This leads to TT not being able to shield defenders with his body. When he learns to consistently finish one handed, he’ll be much better. I think Andy has been a huge positive influence on his habits, especially on hedge and recover, and boxing out. Learning Andy’s ability to finish one handed, and use the glass will help TT immensely. TT doesn’t use the glass very well at all. Most of his flip ins and close in non-dunk finishes are either hook shots or almost dunks. When he learns to shield a defender, use the glass, and master some spin, he’ll be much better. I think he has the ability to do all of this.
One thing i love about the TT experience is that when you watch him from game to game, you can see the improvements. He will be terrible at something, and then 3 games later, I’ll say: “WHOA. That’s new.” This is especially apparent when watching him at the FT line. It is very obvious that he has been working on it it constantly. He is very mechanical, but has steadily improved. He started with a new form and over emphasizes the knee bend, and was really throwing the ball at the back of the rim, but he has slowly started to get more touch on the ball, look less mechanical, and put proper spin on. The work he does shows. His block numbers are way down because he has almost over focused on not over-helping. When he gets to a middle ground they’ll go back up. I also think he’s finally figuring out how to play with the weight he added over the summer — no longer shying away from contact, but using the bump to throw off his defender and get his rhythm, and also holding his ground on defense. The new latest wrinkle I like is the spin move to the opposite side of the basket followed by a quick gather and dunk or flip in. This was a move he did NOT have a month ago, and its emergence has been a big reason his offense has looked better. Another reason is the quick gather. The ball isn’t going below his chest on the gather, and he’s not terrified of getting fouled any more. B. Scott should be praised for having constant faith in him and allowing him to grow on the job.
In short, he’s become one of my favorite Cavs because it is obvious he’s working when you watch him from game to game. His offseason development should revolve around the Pete Newall big man camp and learning to finish with one hand on both sides of the basket, especially using the glass. The other area is learning better timing and angles as the roll man on the P&R. He’s certainly playing with the best player in the league to learn from. The improvements I’ve seen in Tristan’s game with 1 training camp and just a little over one season of playing time make me think that by 25 he could be an elite defender, and a competent offensive player. As the case was often made when drafting him: he has as high of a ceiling of anyone not named Kyrie in that draft. But he was also among the most raw offensively, possibly of all time. There was a lot of talk about his character, intelligence, and work ethic. A lot of time this is all BS but, given the subtle but constant improvement I’ve seen from him, I think these aspects were not overreported, and his ceiling has not diminished.
The only real question is, what nickname should he have? TT is ok, and obviously Tigger has waned. I like “Canadian Dynamite”: a play on TnT.
Thanks again, Kevin.
That’s a whole lotta words about a guy that will never be better than J.J. Hickson or Drew Gooden. Two consecutive seasons of torched 4th-overall picks. What’s the legal limit for allowing a shillfest to continue? I wish they could invent a Breathalyzer test for it.
I also am always impressed with the ridiculous comments about Thompson being a “defense-first” guy. Ignoring the fact that by definition, since his offense is so abysmal, ya kinda have to be.
Furthermore, the stats don’t bear out the bogus claims. For example, the team rebounding percentages are the same, both offensively and defensively, whether he’s on the floor or not. The opponents average a total production of 20 points and 10 rebounds against the Cavaliers’ power forwards, and Thompson is on the floor for 62 minutes of them. And it’s not like they’ve exactly played any Karl Malones yet in this latest disaster of a season. He can’t block shots. His PER is lower than the guys he guards. He’s just a waste product.
Do you know what the code is for guys that have marginal talent, but they try to protect their reputations by saying that the guy is “defense first?” A ROLE PLAYER. The money he is being paid for being selected 4th in the draft is almost Ferry-like. In two years, as his contract incrementally increases in pay, it WILL be Ferry-like. Absolutely ridiculous. So they’re inevitably going to trade him for another bum, and they’ll be scrounging around for somebody cheaper.
In the meantime, Hickson’s original contract wouldn’t have even expired until this April, and he’s so far better than Thompson, it’s not even worthy of discussion. That’s not to say that Hickson is great, because he’s not. But compared to Thompson and his waddling behind, he’s a better-rebounding Amare Stoudemire in his prime.
I didn’t mean 62 minutes. I meant Thompson to say he’s on the floor for 62% of the minutes. With Thompson, it just seems like 62 minutes.
But good for him, he’ll be able to pad some stats while Varejao isn’t around and the other terrible Cavaliers rebounders treat the ball like it’s radioactive. Even Ilgauskas padding his offensive rebounding stats with multiple tips because a 7’3″ NBA player couldn’t dunk a ball wasn’t as annoying as Thompson.
No, on second thought, Big Z’s career mediocrity and his ability to bench press 70 pounds two times was just as annoying.
Forgot to mention: Saying Thompson is 24th in the league in offensive rebounding rate is an intentionally distorted and deceptive. He’s not “shining” in anything. The only thing that matters is how he compares to other power forwards and centers. So if you really want to tell the truth, of the power forwards and centers that average over 20 minutes a game, he’s 13th. Which ain’t all that impressive. Included in the guys whomping him in offensive rebounding rate? J.J. Hickson. Enes Kanter, too, but he doesn’t average 20 minutes a game. Yet. In a perfect world, neither would Thompson.
wow. AJ doesnt even like Big Z.
A.J. reaching troll level 100 there. Well done
@Ben Whatever you’re snorting or shooting bring some to the party. Sharing is caring. Andy was a butt-F^C$ awful offensive player for years. I used to squirm when he’d get the ball. He’d either awkwardly chuck it at the basket, bounce it off his foot or hit a photog with a direct pass. This happened for years. I get that he has fun hair, but there are valid reasons why people thought the Cavs overpaid giving Varejao the extension that they did. Andy’s passing didn’t mature until this season. For most of his career he basically had a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio, which was amazing for a guy with as low of a usage rate as he had.
Tristan is light years ahead of Andy at a comparable age….Hickson too. Andy was 25 when he was putting up TT’s current stats.
The real question to me is…. Is Andy hindering Tristan’s development? That might be a very real question to ask in regards to the Andy trade scenario.
AJ – I thought troll was a five letter word. Apparently you can spell it with just two. 1 – TT is a much better defender than Hickson. Hickson was a guy who would just completely lose focus in game, on both offense and defense. In fact, Hickson was a better offensive player than he was a defensive player (and better on the offensive end than TT is.) JJ was drafted with the hopes that he would turn into a frontcourt complement to LBJ.
Let’s just compare him to PF (since that really is the position he plays.) He is currently 9th in the NBA at his position for rebound rate (its says 10th, but Tim Duncan is really a Center at this point in his career.) He’s 6th in Offensive Rebound Rate among players with at least 20MPG. Yes, his PER looks bad. You know what PER really is? A heavily offensively weighted rating. So a guy who’s offense is raw is going to have a bad PER. He was drafted to be a rebounding defender…and has shown significant strides in his post defense. He helped keep Josh Smith to 7 points (on 12 shots) and 6 rebounds. Josh Smith is an All-Star caliber PF.
Cory – Glad you see it my way. LOL Not sure what that other Ben was smoking, but it’s pretty ridiculous.
To answer your question, I think the absence of Andy answers your question, but not in the way that you think. TT is clearly developing nicely. However, his skillset and Andy’s overlap and Andy is just better than TT. So Andy will have the better boxscore numbers. In his absence, you get 4 straight double doubles. In today’s opening game, I loved seeing some of TT’s moves in the post (and that pass to Kyrie later in the game with Kyrie driving the lane was just sick). Even his first couple of missed shots when ATL got out to an 8-0 lead I liked seeing. They just rimmed out but was on some good post moves. He’s clearly progressing. And doing so quite nicely.
Another thing I enjoy about these fan blogs: When you have nothing at all, call the other guy a troll.
Thompson is worse than both Hickson and Gooden, and in two years, he’ll still be worse than both Hickson and Gooden. Thompson is “developing” like Dwight Davis and Jim Brewer once were “developing.” Which is to say he’s not. Giving any guy with Thompson’s limited paltry skills over 30 minutes a game is the first indication that a roster is terrible.
But on the bright side, Christian Eyenga is “developing.” For the next 50 years, he’ll be “developing.”
That David guy is funny, too. An Ilgauskas lover. Big Z, probably the biggest reason, both figuratively and literally, that James was never able to break through Ferry’s glass ceiling.
I love where this blog is going…I had a dream that the Mayan apocalypse actually happened. There was a Stand-ian apocalypse and only survivors were CTB commenters. The glass half-full Cavs tribe against the glass half-empty rouge. The immediate future would dictate which side was lead by Mother Abigail and and which side followed Randall Flagg….
Then I woke up and realized that the Mayans couldn’t master the brain buster of irrigation.
AJ – Yes, you are acting like a troll.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=goodedr01&y1=2004&p2=hicksjj01&y2=2010&p3=thomptr01&y3=2013
He was drafted to be a rebounding and defensive presence. Guess what, in his second season he’s already out rebounding both…and if you watch the game, you can clearly see he’s a very good defender. Hickson was brought in to be an offensive complement to Lebron. So was Ducktail Gooden. Both guys had better PPG. Gooden did not have near as good a FG%. Hickson and Gooden both had huge mental lapses on defense every single game, often times at least once per quarter. But you seem hell-bent on hating TT, so I don’t expect you to remember that or to see TT’s actual value.
Not only is TT “developing”, he’s doing so in a positive fashion. Last night, Josh Smith got nothing in the post in their half-court offense. He was forced to chuck up 22-footers (which we’ll take all day out of him.)
DuckBILL Gooden. Ducktails is an awesome Disney cartoon that enhanced my childhood. “Life is like a hurrri caaaa haay haayne…”
LOL – Loved me some Ducktails growing up! lol
see I guess I am in the glass half full crowd, but that is sort of a weird position for me to be in. I have some pretty real concerns about the team, and how they get better, but people like AJ and what I see on twitter are so far out there with negativity it drives me nuts
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1392266-10-best-hairstyles-in-nba-history/page/9
But it was called a ducktail. LOL
David – there are reasons to be concerned, but you get that with almost EVERY rookie. Lebron had no jumpshot whatsoever when he first joined. Kyrie causes injury concerns (though they have all been unrelated) as well as defensive concerns. There were concerns for every player to join the NBA. The good ones develop. I think we have a lot of potential on this team. But we need them to improve certain aspects of their game.
Kyrie – Defense (and drink milk)
Waiters – Shot selection and shot mechanics
TT – FT
Zeller -get stronger and more aggressive (lot of ball watching with him) as well as actually setting screens.
We see these things improve, we’ll be a much tougher team moving forward…and the Hawks can testify, we are a tough team.