like a drum
We measure events by their ability to pierce the cacophony of the world around us. During December this is an especially difficult task. The days are filled with caroling and figgy pudding, desperately trying to finish (or avoid) work before a long weekend, parents coming to see their grandchildren, Christmas shopping, Star Wars Christmas specials, holiday editions of Chopped, bowl games, worrying over bills, and elementary school concerts where the soundtrack from hell is played by 4th graders with hand bells. In the wake of the season, it seems as if the gravitas of this Cavaliers teams is fading quickly. I can tell by the way the comments have quieted. I can tell by the way no one talks about the Cavs at the office. The Cavs are drifting to the small print in the Beacon. Terry Pluto seems worn to the nub. The Cavs are in danger of fading into afterthought status: the winter Indians.
This game was endemic of the squelching of the buzz. The Cavs sorely missed Anderson Verajao: bringer of energy. Without him it seems as if the Cavs have none — no hustle, no excitement, no fire. Dion Waiters seemed as if he was trying to summon that fire at times, but he had no effective way to channel it. After a meh first half in which the Celtics started to inch away, the Cavs melted down in the first half of the 3rd quarter – lacking energy and direction, and ended up down 80-60. Somehow, 3 minutes later they’d cut the lead in half on a 12-2 Samardo Samuels, Kyrie Irving run.
Tyler Zeller, in his best offensive game of the season, helped cut the lead to 80-84 about halfway through the 4th. Tyler looked like he was at UNC, hitting on an array of jump shots, hooks, and freethrows though I believe that Kevin Garnett scored all twelve of his points on turnaround jump shots with Tyler Zeller (not really) guarding him. Speaking of (not really) guarding… Gee, Kyrie, Dion… all did a lot of that.
Then the Celtics pulled away, as basketball teams tend to do when the team they’re battling doesn’t play any sort of disciplined or coherent defense. The Celtics also realize what most teams should have realized throughout the year: to beat the Cavs in the late 4th quarter, just make anyone other than Kyrie beat you. The Celtics double and triple teamed Irving, and Kyrie obliged their dogged defense with a turnover, Gee too, and Dion Waiters with two more. It was certainly a game of runs, and The Celtics made more of them. Terry, Rondo, and Pierce ran the offense and dropped an easy 8-0 run in less than a minute. And that was the game.
I fear very much that we are at a tipping point for the Cavs. The Cavs are in danger not being a promising young team with a bright future, and instead being a lousy team that doesn’t play defense, doesn’t have an identity, and has a questionable future. The Cavs are wandering in the wilderness right now, and I’m not sure Byron Scott is their Moses.
I know the schedule will get better. I know the draft is coming. I know that they have two more games before Sunday. I know TT is trying. He’s even hitting free throws, and he’s learned how to pass. I know he’s the only Cav playing defense. But as a tribe, the Cavaliers seem listless: guided by a never ending series of baffling decisions on and off the court. Why is Dion Waiters jacking up long 2s and hogging the ball? Why isn’t he coming off the bench after Miles was so effective as a starter? Why is Luke Walton our de facto backup point guard? Why when he can barely stand up did Andy even travel with the team? Why not tell him to sleep an extra day? Why isn’t Casspi playing? Why can’t Paul Pierce’s defender resist the temptation to help? Why don’t all four other Cavs on the floor rush to pick a guy up the way Boston does? Why can’t Gee play defense any more? Why aren’t we doing anything about global warming? Why does the inevitable entropy death of the universe make me cry? Why isn’t Byron Scott screaming?
As another CtB staffer told me, “Watching the Cavs offense is like watching a pickup game. Watching the Cavs defense is like watching a train wreck.” I think that’s an apt description. But I’m not going to dwell on it too long. I think I’ll go check out the botanical gardens while my folks are in town, or maybe take Saturday and go eat my way through the West Side Market. I hear the Life of Pi is good, and I’ve got to take my kid to see the Hobbit. Maybe I’ll even watch a good basketball game tomorrow night.
It was pretty brutal. All four of the kids had their moments, but sadly not all together at the same time. Waiters looked great in the first then was terrible the rest of the game. Irving wasn’t aggressive until the third quarter. The Thompson hand off to Zeller at the top of the key was hilarious. I’ve long been a Thompson apologist, bhe more I see of Anthony Bennett the more I want him to be our undersized PF of the future. That doesn’t mean that Thompson can’t be a third big off the bench. I just hope Grant takes the best available player.
Nate Smith! Say it ain’t so!
For now, your balls out negativity seems especially warranted, and almost, grotesquely, refreshing in the wake of optimism over the cavs “compete til the 4th” playing style. I think the optimistic side of things says, much like Paul Rudd’s character in some chick flick my wife and I watched after the game, “we are all a small adjustment away from making things work.” Maybe Kyrie can watch some film, learn who breaks free the majority of the time when he is double/triple teamed late in games, and make some better, more advanced passes. Maybe Andy can sit out a bit, get healthy, and reinvigorate the princeton pick n roll with Kyrie, keeping people honest and starting a wave of confidence-building victories over mediocre opponents. Even YOU alluded to a small change: start CJ and for God’s sake give Dion some picks off the ball so he isn’t dribbling for 28 out of 24 seconds.
But the question that keeps popping up is: Does Byron Scott ever, ever, ever make adjustments with a plan in mind? Or is he playing a glorified gambling roulette with the lineups while scratching his head with his arms simultaneously crossed?
Allowing and encouraging Miles, Kyrie, and Waiters to shoot from any place on the court, at any time of the possession, with any defensive pressure present, helped the team come close in a few games when one or two of the shooters got red-hot.
But it DESTROYS teams in the long run.
Other players stop moving, shooters start dribbling, defensive players rest, and your team becomes a rag-tag team of individuals playing pick-up ball at the rec center.
Time to rein in the young shooters and tell them to wait their time for the right shot.
Gibson does this; he is patient.
The others I named are spinning out of control.
Just realized the Cavs are on pace for 15 wins…Got damn.
I was actually shocked Thompson was 2-10 this game Cory. I thought Thompson played much better than that. He was running the offense passing out of double teams, being agressive. Just goes to show you how lowered my expectations are. That man cannot put the ball in the basket very well.
Bric, Gibson isn’t any better.
Why isn’t he coming off the bench after Miles was so effective as a starter?
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I must assume this isn’t a legitimate question. Because the answer is extremely obvious. One guy is the future. One guy isn’t. In a season where we are building for the future, the guy who will be here long-term will start.
I agree Nate. I get deja vu and cringe when TT gets the ball at the top of the key and looks clueless because it reminds of young Andy. In a lot of ways young Andy and young Tristan are similar. Balls of energy, bounce and hustle that can give you a solid block or board followed by dribbling the ball of his foot a moment later. Thus far Tristan’s (21 years old) sophomore year is comparable to Andy’s (25) fourth season TT/AV 8.4/6.7ppg, 7.8/8.3rpg, 1.1/1.1apg, .7/.5bpg, .9/.8spg, .453/.461%FG, .581/.598%FT. Andy’s transformation this season hasn’t been normal though. If TT can just drop the gather, finish at the rim and hit like 65% if his free throws he could easily average 14 points a night.
I don’t think he’s a lost cause at all. Just that my expectations are lowered too. I’ve championed for months that Grant isn’t going to hit on every draft pick because no GM hits on every draft pick. If TT does those things listed above puts up 14/10 and solid d he’ll be a decent pick. After watching the Raptors matchup I didn’t feel like he look bad in comparison to JV.
My negativity doesn’t seem so crazy anymore, eh?
It’s been a sucky few weeks. I asked Santa for more wins. Lets hope he delivers.
GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!
Black Holes may reverse Entropy, so you may be able to possibly scratch that off of your list someday.
Feel better?
I think you hit every nail on that analysis. The cavs certainly aren’t a couple of picks and some smart signings away from being an OKC. They have no bench and what they do have Scott doesn’t know how to use. Let’s hope Grant sees this and adjusts his plan.
Nate, great recap, thanks. Currently abroad and so the NBA plays in America while I am literally dreaming of basketball.
I’m no writer, so this probably won’t be phrased very well, but I have some thoughts I wanted to put out there to the blog. We often (or at least there must be a 50/50 opinion split) say that we want the Cavs to do badly for the lottery, and avoid 8th seed purgatory. This can work for some franchises, I guess. The dream seems to be to spend a couple of years doing terribly, but to look good and fun and full of potential while doing it, and then when the moment is right and your young pieces have matured a little, the front office strikes while the iron is hot and picks up a few key free agents to make a legitimate run at a championship for 4 or 5 years or however long your peak sustains itself. I’m starting to worry about this kind of plan, though, for a couple of reasons. My main one is that it bothers me when institutions get a losing mentality. It’s indefinable, and I like to think of myself as rational so I’m not sure how to justify this, but it seems to be harder to get rid of than you might think. You look at somewhere like Washington. Everything has gone to way they planned it, except for anything good. They drafted high and got John Wall and Bradley Beal. They got Nene, albeit with plantar fasciitis. They have Emeka Okafor and Trevor Ariza, neither of whom are anything but respectable. And yet they suck. Year in and year out. They got rid of all of their ‘troublemakers’. But injuries happen, bad coaching happens, and now the development of their promising players seems stunted, and their championship aspirations are…. laughable? Or Sacramento. Tyreke – ROY. Demarcus Cousins, hideously talented. Marcus Thornton was supposed to be fantastic. Jimmer. But the losing taint just seems to hang over them, and it’s ruining Tyreke, who was one of my favorite rookies ever, and Demarcus Cousins who is a headcase but surely would have had some sense beaten into him at a halfway decent franchise.
How about the Bobcats? Kemba Walker is phenomenal – seriously, watch him this year. Might be as good as Kyrie, I kid you not. Byron Mullens is clearly talented. They picked up MKG, and they go on a 13 game losing streak after a solid start that had me thinking they’d turned the corner – I can’t see any other team going on a 13 game losing streak except a team that did as badly last year as the Bobcats. It’s like somebody said – losing is a habit.
Basically, I desperately want the Cavs to be one of the ‘Good Bad’ teams, and not one of the ‘Bad Bad’ teams. I worry that draft picks out of the top 3 are not worth 82 games of suckage, because we end up with over valued role players. Coach Scott and his rotations annoy the heck out of me – why isn’t Kyrie in all 4th quarter? Why aren’t we fighting harder for games? Why can’t someone make Dion stop taking shitty shots? Why can’t they be like Chicago and play great team defense despite inferior talent on the majority of nights? How much can we pay Thibs to come to Cleveland anyway? We need to instill a winning culture even though we are losing, counter intuitive though it might sound. Otherwise, it might take longer than we think, and one day Kyrie does a Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Dwight Howard. Heck, even Kobe demanded trades in bad years.
Everyone knew they were going to be bad. It’s what Grant and Gilbert signed up for this season. They chose to not spend in FA. The merits of that decision and the long term effects can be debated.
But, this bad? No one saw that coming. Defensively, I’m stunned by how many open perimeter shots they give up. Either from lack of closing out, getting lost, or not switching off a screen. IMO, it isn’t due to lack of talent or athleticism. It’s coaching and effort. I wonder if they’ve started to tune out Byron Scott. I could be wrong. But all the losing may become an avalanche that Scott can’t pull them out of.
Also, I’m not sure TT will ever be effective on offense until he learns a jump shot. Not these running, one-handed, out of control, hook shots he been hosting up. An actual, non-running, both hands on the ball, jump shot. It’s not as if he has to try a turnaround fader. No one is putting a body on him unless he’s in the paint. Defenders play off of him because they know that he doesn’t shoot, and that leaves him no lane to drive. He doesn’t have to be great at it, but at least make the defense think he might take a shot. He’s young, athletic, and has a good attitude. It’s something he could learn. Whether the coaching staff is willing to be patient with him is another matter.
@ Nate
Good write up the game, but I will disagree with you on one point. I thought Zellers defense on Garnett wasn’t bad. KG was fading away on most of his shots. That’s pretty difficult to defend and about impossible to block. It’s not like he was driving by Tyler to the rim.
@Isaac
Bobcats, Wizards, and Kings are terrible because of poor management with seemingly no vision, just collecting random pieces. They have no leadership, no accountability. Who on any of those teams would you want to lead your team? The Bobcats might get somewhere with Cho.
The Cavs have done a great job of collecting assets. Those teams go in to the draft with what they have. Imagine if the Cavs came out of the last two drafts with only Dion and Tristan. And then signed Ben Gordon. That’s what it’s been like being a Bobcat fan. The Cavs absorbed contracts and made trades, got really really lucky, and wound up with Kyrie, Dion, Tristan, and Zeller. They got lucky, but they put themselves in position to get lucky.
I’ve said before its highly unlikely the Cavs will be able to build a legit NBA championship team because of the way the NBA is set up, not many different teams get there. But how else do you propose they build a team? Free agency? So we can pay a bunch of Larry Hughes quality players the salary of Lebron James quality players. Unfortunately in Cleveland, no one is coming here unless they are being overpaid, and overpaying marginal players is how you kill a franchise. Their best bet is to collect as much young talent now, see what pans out, and make trades. Maybe they trade out most of their young talent eventually and bring in a king’s ransom like Boston did with Allen and Garnet, put together a team built for the short term, but with a legitimate threat a title. Or maybe we enjoy 5-10 years of solid exciting basketball and hope to get lucky.
Speaking of poor defense, Rondo got to the line 10 times. He averages something like 2.5 FT attempts per game.
Nice comments, everybody. I agree wholeheartedly with you, Isaac, and it’s a point that Mallory and I have been talking about all season. I was tired of beating a dead horse. I think the Cavs need one or two culture changers…
I was going to go off on some diatribe about how these have been my thoughts all season, but I’ll save it.
Basically, I think people don’t realize how troublesome this team is. We have such a supreme talent like Kyrie, and yet this organization has done everything in its power to surround him with mediocrity. Unless Waiters and/or TT turn out to be megastars, they will have essentially wasted years of Kyrie’s career and set him back in development. Young players shouldn’t be sent out onto the court and told to just “do what he can.” Which is essentially what Scott’s game plan seems to be. That’s how you create chuckers, bad defenders, etc. etc. etc. and is precisely why you need vets on your team – to stop the hemorrhaging.
Lets put it this way – the Bobcats, who had to go through a MASSIVE rebuild and were never #1 overall, are MUCH improved and probably headed towards being a contender. And all without tanking for years.
And yeah, it’s pretty clear Byron Scott is probably not the answer at coach. Oh well.
Agree with you Isaac. Everything anyone does on a consistant basis forms a habit. If you get into the habit of losing, you lose hope when you are losing in the 4th, your numb to losing, and quite frankly you stop letting it ruin your day. I don’t think one cavalier still is getting pissed off over losing. Byron doesn’t even care anymore. Its not good. You’re not going to win many basketball games on talent alone, you need to care.
Btw, for the Bobcats thing – I don’t mean THIS year. But they’re SURELY better than we are right now. Disturbingly.
Wow – everyone is 3 weeks late to Mallory’s party.
The Toronto game was the low for me. In every single one of these “where are we now” running conversations about half of the participants cite the “brutal” schedule. The Cavs are 1 and 9 in their last 10 games and that is against teams with a combined record of .438. They got blown off the floor AT HOME in the 4th quarter against a bottom 10 team in Toronto that was missing its best player – Kyle Lowry. Watching that game I was unable to determine if the Cavs had actually given up trying or were that terrible of a team – it was that bad.
We did a hell of a lot of mental gymnastics (myself included) early on when analyzing this team and its growth potential. We’ve cited the BRUTAL schedule, cited the injuries, cited nuggets of wisdom such as “All young players get better”, we looked at how Dion’s high usage was the cause of his inefficient shooting, and then we showed how Dion’s first 1324.547238 minutes is similar to Dwyane Wade’s WHOLLY UNREMARKABLE first 1324.547238 minutes of his rookie season, and how the Cavs starters are actually awesome. And now? The Cavs are losing to garbage teams at home, Dion’s barely hitting the rim on most his outside shots (and he’s not holding back), Kyrie’s horrible D is compounded by everyone else suddenly trying to grab hold of his “worst defender on the team” trophy, Anderson Varejao was only able to play like an NBA MVP for so long, and despite CJ Miles and Jeremy Pargo being revelations of sorts – it hasn’t mattered much. Bric is absolutely right and along with Issac gets the award for best comments. (Ironically this is the same stuff Mallory got KILLED for saying a month ago, but I guess at some point we all have to face reality, myself included). This team only wins games when players get unsustainably hot for a quarter or a game. You’ll notice, we can remember just about every win by which player had an uncharacteristically hot shooting night. Really the only game that was a TEAM effort was the win against Atlanta. I expected the Cavs defense to struggle, I did not expect the Cavs offense to be so abysmal. Lazy passes, ill-advised shots, a complete and total inability to finish fast breaks (which works out perfectly since the Cavs only above average team skills on defense are forcing turnovers and defensive rebounding – leading to all these 3 on 2 fast breaks that end in 5 on 4 fast breaks in the other direction), and a bunch of total offensive liabilities that always seem to find the ball in their hands with almost no time on the shot clock. This team’s identity is: Give the ball to Kyrie irving, watch him net 3 or 4 straight buckets, and then let the other team go on a run. It’s getting harder and harder to blame the schedule or the talent for losses like the one to Toronto. TT is proving to be an effective defender – and it matters not because he can’t guard all 5 guys by himself. Kyrie is now one of the most devastating scorers in the entire league and his scoring hardly seems to open things up for the rest of the team. Anderson Varejao played like the best center in the NBA for over a month and the Cavs capitalized with 2 “real” wins (the Washington game doesn’t count). Tyler Zeller is a creative and effective scoring big that has shown real growth at that end. CJ Miles is a suddenly a competent scorer. Omri Casspi did exactly what we expected of him before he found a nice comfy spot on the bench next to Jeremy Pargo – a guy that should probably have been playing in Europe that single handedly won at least 1 of the Cavs other 2 wins.
The Cavs have no defensive identity, they have no offensive identity except – let Kyrie or Dion dribble and try to find an opening, and they are the worst Cavalier team I have ever seen at mental mistakes at critical times. They lost last night’s game when, after a timeout, down only 4, the inbounds pass was a loopy softball tossed right to the Celtics. The Cavaliers have been atrocious out of timeouts, in late game situations, and even just end of quarter situations. I’m also getting nervous about what Issac refers to as “Bad Bad”. There is some talent on this team. I was very encouraged by how well TT played against Toronto – best game I’ve seen him play – and overall his defense looks very solid. I’m also encouraged by Zeller’s offense – he looks even more skilled than I expected – he can score with either hand from a multitude of angles around the hoop. And of course – Kyrie’s offense is just filthy good. I am alarmed that the team is completely incapable of putting it all together and becoming more than the sum of their parts. The coaching staff has to do a better job of that, so do the team’s leaders.
Byron Scott during games: Arms crossed, detached look, standing quietly away from the bench.
Yep, he definitely does not giving a flying patootie.
“I fear very much that we are at a tipping point for the Cavs…”
I agree we are closing in on a point where the rebuild isn’t yielding the success it could. Eventually this lack of discipline and winning could stunt the growth of key players. I point to the roster — the Cavs simply need to put better pieces around the franchise players. Kyrie wasn’t even drafted into a situation he could hope to have success; he inherited a team built on duct tape and D-Leaguers. While it’s nice to wish a #1 overall pick can just come in and carry a franchise, he needs a team that will help him get past those first few ladder rungs. A team will go only as far as its best player can take them, and vice versa.
People wanna talk about the OKC Thunder model of building a franchise by going young through the draft. Here are some interesting numbers I pulled up comparing the Thunder and Cavs teams (in average # seasons played):
Kevin Durant as rookie: 3.8 yrs (Starting Five) / 7.8 yrs (15-man Roster)
Kevin Durant soph: 3.6 yrs / 6.8 yrs
Kevin Durant third: 4.8 yrs / 5.1 yrs
Kyrie Irving rookie: 5.4 yrs / 5.5 yrs
Kyrie Irving soph: 4.6 yrs / 4.8 yrs
*(For reference, the 2012-13 Celtics’ average roster experience is almost exactly 7 seasons)
The Thunder didn’t JUST go young — they assembled what they felt like was a CORE of young, talented players that could start immediately and grow together. Notice from the average roster experience that the Thunder still surrounded that core with a veteran team. This is a good model, as the young guys have older guys to bail them out as they take their lumps. Only when Durant emerges as dominant in year 3 does the Thunder’s roster drop to near 5 seasons avg experience.
Where the Cavs have failed to emulate the Thunder’s success is in providing the young, future-of-the-franchise core players with veteran teammates who will facilitate their growth. You think Rajon Rondo became such a great passer by practicing extra hard? Or did it help having three HOF teammates to dish to? I hear a lot of people scoff when the term “veteran leadership” starts to get thrown around, but it’s very real and frankly is the difference between winning the close ones and meandering aimlessly on “team defense” (Cavs fans are familiar with the latter in 2012-13). I respect the Cavs’ approach, playing it safe through the draft, but we will just be breeding puppies in Cleveland if there is no one left on the roster who knows what it’s like to win in the NBA.
Comment of the year, Carson. You got it in just two days before the world ended.
They’re young and need a better coach who can make adjustments like Doc Rivers can on each opponent. This hasn’t happen because Scott adheres to a his system no matter what is going on in the here and now causing losses in close games. The ugly truth no one wnat to admit is we need a new coach. We can’t possibly do worse. We are at the bottom of the barrel. Scott pulls players when they are hot. Puts in mismatches like Boobie at center? Doesn’t recognize when Andy needs help with big men and refuses to put TT in to get us more rebounds. Leave Kyrie out too long beyonf\d the point of return. Refuses to put in the higher scoring backup point guard Pargo over Sloan. Pargo has contributed high points from 16 to 28 in several games. Sloan’s highest is 10?? WTH?? this stuff matters when it’s a close game!! We;ve had many close games.
Carson –
You just proved a point I’ve been trying to make all year – I appreciate that.
You NEED to have set talent on a roster. Tom and I have been chatting about this on and off, but basically guys like TT, Zeller, Gee, etc. etc. are not TOP rotation guys – these are low bench players on most contenders. They might GROW into great players, but right now that’s not their game.
Forcing them to do more than they’re capable of is a recipe for disaster.
I just wish we had a get swing, a vet PG, and a vet Center/PF. Someone explain to me why paying a guy like Ramon Sessions 10 Mil over two years would have killed this team?
The team is just about clinically dead. It has nothing that makes it a team. It is a bunch of basketball players that basically play one-on-one most of the time. When you have a young team that appears to go nowhere, it will ultimately go down. People are trying to live in the make believe land and say that next draft will bring this and that player who will change everything. That will not happen.
One third of the season gone and all the Cavs do to adjust with the dreadful track record is sending players back and forth to the D-league. If anything is to be changed in the Cavs, the operation need to be a drastic one. Apparently its not going to happen, so we need to wait for some 5-10 more years.
Don’t comment much, but I must say that the comments on this blog stand in such stark contrast to the typical internet rubbish that I feel inclined to contribute. That’s saying alot.
The NBA season is long and grueling and I suspect that 2008-2009 OKC had stretches that looked something like this as well. I think it’s important to take note of a couple things, here.
#1, Tyler Zeller was a GREAT acquisition given the chips needed to acquire him. While the verdict is certainly still out with thompson and waiters, I don’t think it’s premature to trust the ‘eye-test’ and confidently assert that Zeller will be able to contribute positive win shares to a contending team down the road. Let it be known that I was never a Zeller fan, so this isn’t coming from some fanboy.
#2, It agree that it’s hard to watch what Byron Scott is doing right now with his rotations, but I am certain that he understands the bigger picture. I don’t think he’s above sacrificing wins for sticking to a long-term “plan” when it comes to long-term management of minutes and growth. Everybody in the damn organization knows Kyrie’s growth/protection is the top priority and I would be shocked if this aspect of his rotation wasn’t very carefully considered. His handling of Kyries minutes in the 4th quarters is something that I have a hard time blasting him for. The same goes for Dion’s management since his return. I trust his cumulative experience as a player and coach more than my own desire to be entertained on a dreary december weeknight. If they’re playing like this late next season, there’ll be a cause for concern. Now? Not as much. As long as AV is around, I’m not too worried about culture. I do agree that it would be great to add some sort of psychotically competitive role player over the summer to help with this, but the situation is not malignant yet.
@Mallory
Yes, you need to have established talent on a roster. I believe the Cavs know this and will do so. But I don’t think it’s wise to bring in guys who can get you a few more wins, but are not part of the long term solution (especially when your “core” was a single player coming off his rookie year). I think Washington did that with Okafor and Ariza, and look where they are. Detroit did that with Ben Gordon and Charlie V. That’s been a disaster.
Let’s not forget how surrounding LeBron with established vets like Hughes, Marshall, Jones worked out. As I have stated before, they have to be careful with FA. They will, most likely, have to pay more and give longer contracts to bring in established players. Once they do that, their flexibility goes down.
I have not been critical of the Cavs decision to not bring in FA last summer for several reasons:
1) The money being thrown at FAs was absurd. Batum, Jeff Green, Courtney Lee, Dragic, Asik are some examples.
2) The FA class of last summer was not as good as the FA class of next summer. Still isn’t, even though Harden is signed and Bynum’s knees are a question.
3) The only known quality assets on the team were Kyrie, Varejao. And Kyrie was coming off his rookie year. There were too many unknowns on the team to start spending big in FA.
Remember, they did try to trade for Bynum. Of course, no one knew of his injuries at the time. So, I’d say they did try to being in some established talent.
What were seeing now are the consequences of the direction Grant and Gilbert chose. It’s worse than expected. But what if they spent in FA and it didn’t work out like with Hughes, Marshall, Jones. Then they are stuck, and looking at another LeBron situation. Dan Gilbert has proven that he’s committed to winning and not afraid to spend. I don’t think he’ll let this them become a continual last place team and you’ll see changes after this year. Obviously, we will endure a painful season. But that doesn’t mean the future isn’t bright.
Tom Pestak,
I had no idea that you carried so much disdain for much of my writing this year.
Certainly things are really ugly right now and need to turn around. The offense and defense have to start looking like someone is being coached. Cleveland has two more games this weekend; games they will probably lose. After that, the schedule lightens up. If things don’t turn around, with Cleveland winning at least 20 of it’s final 53 games, a coaching change is definitely in order.
While I’m’ not indicating that Cleveland is on this path, OKC started 3 – 29 during Westbrook’s rookie year.
if only Chris Grant would surround Kyrie with three hall of famers like Rondo had! Why didn’t he think of that?!?!?!
Last I checked, the Cavaliers were within 4 of Boston on the road in the fourth quarter last night, without their second best player Anderson Varejao. The Toronto loss was definitely disappointing, but this is not the game to point to to say the sky is falling.
Scuzz -
Totally agree with you. 100%. Which is why large, short term contracts make the most sense. Ones like the Sessions contract.
I agree that Gilbert wont let them remain this low in the cap/losing. But the idea that we’ll suddenly turn it on by signing guys is nuts. It’s not as though next year we’re going to add a bunch of stars via FA at reasonable prices. At some point you have to dive in and hope the risk pays off.
Doing it all at once, though, seems silly. Which is basically what we’ve set ourselves up for.
@Kevin – No i love your writing. I’m just saying – so much of our “analysis” is based on figuring out how things are going to get better when all these things change. It’s wishful thinking – and I was on board. But at some point, you have to take a step back, and recognize that if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quack’s like a duck – there’s a chance it actually ISN’T going to turn into a unicorn when you start feeding it 27-grain wheat bread instead of tossing it balls of wonder.
Btw, for the Bobcats thing – I don’t mean THIS year. But they’re SURELY better than we are right now. Disturbingly.
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Dead last in the league in points allowed. Losers of THIRTEEN straight. See, this is that grass is always greener nonsense that you constantly post. The Bobcats ONLY look good because we are comparing them to last years WORST OF ALL TIME team. Awesome. By season’s end, their record will be worse than Clevelands.
And just to be clear, Charlotte is dead last not only in PPG allowed, but Def. Efficiency. They also play at a slower pace than Cleveland. So here we are, crying about our defense (and it is bad) while simultaneously holding Charlotte up as some sort of an example? Saying that they are “disturbingly” better than Cleveland at this point? Really? Shall we reassess that statement?
Tom,
For the record, I was kidding about your disdain.
I will probably wait until next year before any duck-calling. I liked the Dion & Zeller picks though, so insinuating that I questioned the teams direction would be flaky.
Alright Rich, fair. But the record speaks volumes. Despite playing two fewer games, they’ve won two more. I’m not sure about how they’ve looked recently vs the beginning, but that’s certainly a better record.
You can sugar coat and color the stats all you want, but you watch these games and see what happens on the floor and it doesn’t look pretty.
Again, this is NOT to say we’ll never be good, but to not be concerned now seems too willing to accept what the front office is selling.
I know I can be kind of a prick at times, but I do not understand why people are so apt to worry about the sky-falling when they knew full well what the plan was. It was the “OKC” plan. YOu knew that. THey told us that. So then why, when we are awful in the second year of the rebuild are we going to give up, when OKC, at this point, was worse? Can we at least give it till the end of the year to see if the team starts showing some real improvement? Because I expect they will, and I expect a fairly big leap to come next season.
But I don’t understand the sudden shakiness. They told us how they were going to go about this. They almost told us to our face that we were going to be awful this year. We, for the most part, accepted that. So then the season rolls around, we actually are awful, and suddenly we pretend we didn’t see this one coming.
Alright Rich, fair. But the record speaks volumes. Despite playing two fewer games, they’ve won two more. I’m not sure about how they’ve looked recently vs the beginning, but that’s certainly a better record.
You can sugar coat and color the stats all you want, but you watch these games and see what happens on the floor and it doesn’t look pretty.
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I’ll fill you in, they are not what they were to start the season. The start they had was a mirage. Their last 10 games (all losses) have had an average point differential of double digits. People told themselves after the Laker game they had that the Bobcats looked really improved, forgetting the fact that our lone win out of our last 10 was against the same Laker team.
I’ll lay out my own timeline for when I’ll start worrying/calling for heads. If, by the end of the season, this team hasn’t shown real improvement (particularly on defense) and they don’t win at least 25 games, I’ll climb on board. But, seriously, the start of this season was supposed to be awful.
Outside of developing young PGs with a ton of talent and cajoling with the media, is there anything that Byron does well as a coach?
The team defense is miserable, especially on the perimeter. This is the #1 problem right now. The guards have no idea when to switch, when to go over/under a screen, which shooters to stay near, when/where to rotate and on and on. And it’s only gotten worse. It doesn’t help that a few of the guys are just miserable defenders (Kyrie, CJ, Boobie on anyone taller than 6’3″), but the mistakes in team defense allow opposing teams to just destroy them repeatedly, often using the same plays over and over with no adjustments by the Cavs. This is on Byron more than anyone else.
The offensive end isn’t much better. When you initiate 75% of your offensive sets by having a guard dribble down the side, pass it off to Varejao/TT outside the 3 pt line, who takes a dribble or two then proceeds to hand it off to the other guard/Gee at the top of the key, you’ve essentially done nothing. There is no pressure put on the opposing defense for the first 10-15 seconds of every shot clock because they do this exact same hand off routine nearly every fucking time down the court. This set NEVER leads to easy buckets. It leads to a mad scramble near the end of the shot clock to find a decent look because the defense hasn’t had to react to shit.
@ Rich
“but I do not understand why people are so apt to worry about the sky-falling when they knew full well what the plan was.”
Totally agree. Although, it’s easy to forget that when you’re in the middle a bad season. Keeping your emotions in check can be difficult. As I mentioned to Mallory before, Dan Gilbert has proven that he’s not afraid to spend. I believe he will being in quality FAs. Even if it’s not as soon as we want.
“So then the season rolls around, we actually are awful, and suddenly we pretend we didn’t see this one coming.”
I think we saw it coming. But not quite this bad. Like you, I’m trying to keep the long term goals in mind. But I understand why people are getting angry.
@ Mallory
“Doing it all at once, though, seems silly. Which is basically what we’ve set ourselves up for.”
Not if they are tanking to get a high draft pick. Which, as Rich reminded us, is what they are doing. Whether we agree with it or not, it makes sense according to their plans.
I’m still not worried long term about this team. I still don’t think Washington or Sacramento are comparable situations. The Wizards drafted Wall. Since Kyrie debuted the general consensus is that KI is better than Wall and that Wall probably isn’t a franchise player. It will be interesting to see what happens when he’s eligible for his extension. Wall’s also been out all season and Nene has been slowed with the dreaded plantar fasciitis. Going after vet salary for Ariza, Okafur and Nene handcuffed them against making a trade for Harden. Sacramento is a situation of it’s own. Lame duck city, broke as duck owners, mish mosh roster. A good team in the situation the Kings are in would underachieve. If the Warriors were in Sacramento right now they’d have 8 wins at best. Stern needs to throw his schmekel on the table and sell the team to an owner in Seattle to just get it over with.
I don’t know what people were expecting going into the season. I figured bottom 6 in the league if everything went right. They are incredibly young and shallow. Irving missed 11 games and Waiters has missed 8. You need continuity to establish chemistry.
If Irving is an All-Star caliber player and Waiters and another player are in the conversation good things will happen in the near future. I still like Grant’s model and he’s been more aggressive in adding assets than Presti was. Presti just rebuilt at a better time. 2011 had one franchise player. 2012 might have had two (Lillard and Davis). It’s too early too lambast the 2013 draft but it doesn’t look promising. That doesn’t mean that Muhammad, Noel or Bennet can’t be David West quality players There is still a big trade to be had and the Cavs are still in a position for it because they didn’t cash their chips in on stop gaps.
Scuzz kind of gets the point with his last “I think we saw it coming…getting angry.”
The problem is two fold.
1. We, as fans, want to see some semblance of a decent team. I understand that you guys are fine with the OKC model and it makes sense to me, but as I’ve said a million times, that OKC model means squat. It was probably more of a fluke than a map. If Harden/Westbrook don’t turn into the players they are, we’re talking about a totally different path they’ve taken. Similarly, if TT and/or Waiters aren’t stars, we’re screwed.
2. We’re not actually following the OKC model. First of all we don’t have KD. Sorry Kyrie, you’re just not. Maybe you will be, but not yet. Second we haven’t had ANY improvement in win totals over this three year period. I’ve seen KJ and others argue that our win totals may be lower/the same but we look better, but that’s crazy talk. You can pull all the numbers and stats out that you want, but ONE thing matters. W/L. Right now we’re 5-22. That’s paced out for 15 wins which would be our lowest total of the last three years. In what way is that an improvement? Third Presti was never afraid of pulling the trigger, and despite that great Kyrie trade where we gave up a sack of oranges (Mo) for a sack of potatoes (Baron) plus a pick, Grant hasn’t done a whole lot else beyond swapping small assets for other small assets.
Having a great owner like Gilbert is amazing when you spend, because they don’t mind it. But we’re sitting WELL below the cap with a team of scrubs/youngsters, a star, and one very very good player. In what world does that give you hope? Because we get the chance to draft more young guys? So we can take another 25% chance at getting an NBA caliber player?
I’ve mentioned this article a million times, but Kevin did a PHENOMENAL job of analyzing the statistical odds of getting a DECENT, not star, but DECENT player depending on where you pick. Unless you’re number 1, they’re not good. Even at number one they’re not perfect.
So you’re saying it’s worth it too keep tanking in the hopes of maybe possibly if we’re lucky grabbing another star? That’s ludicrous. Money is NOT an issue anymore. Flexibility only takes you so far. At some point you actually have to flex! I’m not saying go out and spend madly, but the construction of this team makes zero sense. Giving young guys bad habits and treating your fan base to an abysmal team isn’t the way to run a team. I’m sorry, but it’s not. And I bet you the number of season tickets next season reflects that.
Lets put it this way guys, we’re the hardest of hard core and it’s pretty clear a lot of people are getting tired of this. Doesn’t that worry you?????
Corey, I doubt Washington loses this many games with Wall, Nene, etc. back from injury. They’re likely better than us when these guys return. They actually have an NBA bench.
Mallory,
OKC was 3 and 29 in Westbrook’s rookie year. The same year of the re-build that Cleveland is in now (year one = two top five picks, year two = Westbrook / Waiters)
Did OKC draft two top 5?
What was their final record? I’m not sure of where they were at this point, but I’m pretty sure they finished better than we’re paced out to.
In year 1., I mean.
So OKC’s patience lasted like 15 games, and they canned their coaches.
Just checked – 23 and 59. If we hit that number, at this point, I’ll be happy.