Early season On-court / Off-court
2012-12-14
Who is that masked man? That's Tristan Thompson, the NBA's 83rd best defensive player.
This article is based on the on-court / off-court data for the Cavaliers this season, provided by basketball-reference.com. Several interesting items of note will be mentioned and then discussed.
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Cleveland’s effective field goal percentage when Dion Waiters plays is 48.4%, the highest on the team. Their offensive rating of 109.5 far exceeds all other players, and amounts to nearly 15 points per 100 possesions better than his bench-time.
This could mean two things (or likely, partially both things). The sample size is small, and the results relatively random. Or, despite his ineffiency, Dion’s high-usage, dynamic offensive style provides intangible benefits. A few points in this regards:
- Ideally, Gee and Thompson are 15% usage players; probably lower for Tristan. For better or worse, Andy plays at 18% usage. So unless the plan is for Kyrie to shoot as often as Kobe (maybe this should be), someone needs to take shots to allow the ‘role players’ to function at their most efficient usage.
- The Cavs offensive rebound rate of 35.9% is highest during his on-court stints. You thought it was when Varejao played? Dion’s shooting from deep actually resides around league average. He has been horrible finishing. You know what happens though, when he gets to the basket, draws the opposing big, and misses? Andy or Tristan get an easy tip-in. This has happened quite a bit this season.
- Finally, his frequent and relatively effective three point attempts spread the floor.
Of course, I am an obnoxious Dion apologist.
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To balance that, I will note that the offense results in assisted baskets on nearly eight-percent less makes when Dion plays.
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Team defense has been 9 points per 100 possesions better when Tristan suits-up, thanks to a dramatic 5.5% decrease in opponent effective field goal percentage.
Looking at my favorite defensive stat, RAPM, Tristan ranks 83rd of the 300+ players with 500 or more possessions; better than three-quarters of the league. A solid start from a 21 year old. Like everyone else, it would be nice to not see all of his shots blocked, but credit must be given where due.
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Defense rates 9 points per 100 worse with Gee on-court, while being 10 points per 100 better with Casspi. RAPM picks Casspi as among the four Cavs (of 15) to play above average defense this season.
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Cleveland’s rebounding rate is 6.6% higher when Andy plays. No elaborate discussion needed there.
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The offense is 13 points per 100 possessions worse when Donald Sloan plays. I would say “ah, the perils of backing up Kyrie”, but the offense does not drop nearly as precipitously with Pargo at the helm.
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At least the offense isn’t 27 points per 100 possessions worse when Mr. Sloan plays. That honor belongs to Luke Walton.
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Team offense improves by eight points per hundred when Kyrie plays. It is also much more fun to watch. According to RAPM, he is the league’s 20th best offensive player. Not shabby for a 20-year old.
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Of the Cavs with over 200 minutes, only Kyrie and Tristan show better results for both offense and defense when on-court. That’s right, team defense is slightly better when Kyrie plays. And the team offense overcomes Tristan’s struggles. I guess they help offset each other’s deficiencies. Now, if they can both figure out the other end.
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Only Daniel Gibson and Jeremy Pargo show worse results at both ends. The team is 14 points worse per hundred during Boobie’s time. The coaching staff occassionally gives him credit for solid defense, but there is no tangible evidence. It’s probably veteran leadership that they are referring to.
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Well, I am done. You have the link; what other ‘fun’ results are there?
Interesting article as usual from Kevin. Seems to support the premises that TT was drafted for his D and DW to improve the Cavs offense. Maybe Grant’s picks are actually doing what was expected from them. Factor in their age and the typical time frame it takes to develop an NBA player and things look pretty good for the Cavs future.
Did you have to severely hedge every positive Tristan statement with a comment on his perceived offensive struggles? Scoring isn’t the only thing that matters on offense. Running the offense properly, setting picks and grabbing offensive rebounds don’t really matter. This wouldn’t be as much of an issue if you did this with everyone else, but it’s only Tristan. You call Dion’s offensive style “high-usage, dynamic, inefficient.” If that were Tristan you’d be saying “chucking up whatever at the rim” then follow up with a completely non-related comment on his defense like, “not to mention what a complete sieve he’s… Read more »
Patrick Elder, Were you responding to my article? I called Dion inefficient (which you note in your comment) and also pointed that the team gets assists on much fewer of their buckets when he plays. I also call myself “an obnoxious Dion apologist”, pretty much preemptively addressing your critique. I praise Kyrie, but pick on his defense. In my first bullet on Tristan, I count four basic points where I give Tristan props: improved d-rating, improved opponent efg%, better than 3/4 of the league on defense, only 21. Then, in one sentence, I note his offensive struggles. Later, I describe… Read more »
Patrick Elder,
I am so confused by your comment. Maybe you weren’t talking to me. You say that when describing Tristan, I would say “he’s chucking up whatever at the rim”, then “not to mention what a complete sieve he’s been on defense”.
This is after you read an article where I outright call Tristan a top-25% defender. One of my biggest points was Tristan’s defensive success, yet your comment intimates that everything about TT was negative.
“That’s right, team defense is slightly better when Kyrie plays.” – OK, so how do I reconcile this? Irving is such a horrific on-ball defender and the only defense worse than that is his help defense (because it doesn’t exist). I’d say a good chunk of PnRs end with the Cavs playing 4 on 5 with Kyrie BEHIND the entire play. Does Sasha Pavlovic’s famous my defense is my offense really hold true?? Does trying to keep UncleDrew from getting BUCKETS at the other end make opposing offenses more inefficient? There’s just no way you can get me to believe… Read more »
Tom, RAPM considers Kyrie a poor defender and Tristan a poor offensive player. +/- is barely an advanced stat and is prone to all sorts of crazy nonsense. APM and RAPM definitely are advanced stats, and they attempt to distribute who actually deserves credit for the +/-. RAPM tells me that Kyrie is a top20 offensive player and a poor defensive guy. Tristan is a below average offensive player, but solid on defense. These are things that Cavs fans universally agree on. Straight +/- and on-court / off-court differentials shouldn’t be taken too seriously. The RAPM data tells a story… Read more »
Nathan,
That’s a good point about the paint being packed because of our inability to hit the open j’s. It’s also why I think it’s effective for Kyrie to play off the ball occasionally while Dion does the ball handling.
Alonzo’s shooting 28% from 3 this season, and that’s absolutely murdering our starting unit. When all three of our starting perimeter players are at their best slashing to the hoop, and neither of our bigs are knock-down midrange shooters, opponents just pack the paint. This has had brutal consequences for Dion and Kyrie, who can rarely find the openings they need to get to the hoop and finish. I’m not the biggest Miles fan, but he can knock down open shots with better consistency than Gee, so i wouldn’t mind seeing him in the starting lineup to help space the… Read more »
Nathan,
I agree that a big, shooting wing seems ideal next to Kyrie and Dion in the starting unit. Also, if Tyler can play passable defense and consistently knock down 18 footers, that really is the start of something. I think he can do both.
For clarity, I updated my previous comment to say that Gee’s “defensive” differential is team worst, while Tristan’s is team best. Previously, it just said differential.
In Sac Casspi was a 2nd squad guy for the most part. I think the Cavs quickly learned he is not starting material. Maybe this is his role.
It’s interesting to contrast these numbers with each player’s PER. The combination gives you a nice picture of the player overall. For instance, PER isn’t especially kind to Dion and punishes him for his offensive inefficiency. But as you pointed out, with these numbers you can see how his style affects the Cavs’ offense overall. Less long two pointers and better finishes at the rim could make Dion a very special player indeed.
Thanks for the info Kevin. Do you think part of the issue with Gee and Casspi on defense is partially due to the fact that Gee is typically guards the other team’s best guard or wing, while Casspi rarely is on the court at this time? Either way, I am really happy with the improvement Casspi has shown this year.
Mike, I’m not sure what the deal is with the Gee / Casspi disparity. Certainly part of it is small sample size, but Gee’s on-court defensive differential is the worst on the team. He is one of only two Cavs to have played in every game, and most of those minutes are against the opposing starters. That certainly doesn’t help him, but Thompson is frequently on-court while the opponent’s starters play and his defensive differential is nearly team-best. Tristan sits alot in crunch time, when the team has struggled, which certainly aids him in these comparisons. I think Gee is… Read more »