I know this is a tired trope by now, but it’s the biggest Cavs storyline out there: should we trade Andy? And if so, what could we get? In Jason Lloyd’s article, an executive is quoted as saying he would be the number one chip on the market. If the Cavs got an offer of, say, Toronto’s 1-3 protected lottery pick and OKC’s first rounder, along with Eric Maynor, could we turn it down? He is certainly one of the top centers in the league right now- after Dwight Howard, there’s no one better. I’m of the camp that says we trade him for a really great haul, but nothing less. What that haul is? Depends on the market. But it’s safe to say Chris Grant will be ignoring any lowball offers he gets.
Tags: anderson varejao
No, period.
How many rookies/2nd year players you want on this team anyways? No matter how many rookies we get, there will be people defending them to the ends of time no matter how good/bad they are.
With Andy, we actually got a guy we stuck with and has way exceeded what anyone thought he’d be. We need more players like him, not give up on players like him. He’s arguably better than any FA we can get, better than any trade we can make. Keep him. Easy decision.
One caveat though: I’d love for Andy and the Cavs to win a championship together. But on the (unfortunately) good chance that he won’t win one in Cleveland, I’d be okay trading him to any team if a championship for him was guaranteed elsewhere. Well, anywhere but the Heat.
Trade the 2nd best center in the league who makes less than 10 million a year for this and the next two years for Eric Maynor and a pick that’s not even in the top 3? Hardly. I wouldn’t do it if they threw in Ibaka. The answer is to start competing ASAP.
Hopefully our GM does not destroy our your promising team before it can compete. After 7 yrs of bad trades & FA offers; lets not make another one. This guy is playing out of his mind. He is loyal to CLE and is in his prime. We have youth so I don’t understand why we need more inexperience. Kyrie, Tristan, Dion, Tyler are a great young core..having some vets that produce Anderson, Boobie & Omri we can compete now…we just need to learn how to win. The majority of the losses this year have been close. 2 buzzer beaters, a couple of meltdowns in the 4th qtr. This team could easily be 8-7 and fighting for the division lead. We need “Wild Thing” in CLE!
I’m not of the belief that Andy can keep this level of play up until the end of the season, let alone 3-4 more years- when we’ll be trying to get a 4 seed. I think he’s peaking, and you trade players at their peak, especially when you’re a lottery team anyways.
^Sad, but undeniably true.
Unless it’s an amazing deal, and by that I mean an unprotected lottery pick from a guaranteed lottery team, then no. If he can only do this for two more years, it’s worth keeping him for two more years when we’ll be ready to make a serious playoff push.
I agree completely with the points made by RickOH- we gotta keep Andy. I’ve wavered in the past about whether we should trade him or not, but really, after a lifetime of seeing Cleveland’s homegrown stars and fan favorites leave town (in every sport), it would mean so much to keep Andy around for as long as he wants. Hopefully he’ll retire as a Cav (with a well-deserved ring earned somewhere along the way).
Andy’s tradeable, but it will be hard to find an ideal deal. The consensus seems to be a high lottery pick or a young with future All-Star potential would be the core of a trade for Varejao. Problem is lottery teams won’t be interested and only a few playoff teams own upcoming lottery teams selections. The Bulls own the Bobcats 2016 first rounder but they are penny pinchers. The same could probably be said about the Thunder and that Raptors pick they own. The only teams that make sense are the playoff teams and perhaps a team stuck on the edge of the playoffs like the Warriors.
When I first heard of the Barnes/Andy trade possibility near the draft it made sense to me. The Cavs could have Waiters and Barnes. Their starting lineup of the future would be intact. The 2014 pick truly would be spent on the best available player. The Warriors have been the most star crossed franchise in the league for the past 30 years. Simmons wrote a terrific article on it. Getting back to the playoffs is a desperate goal for the new owners. The real question is what Chris Grant actually thinks of Barnes. He did choose Waiters over him for a reason.
In the end I don’t see him being dealt either by injury or by no one meeting what Grant wants in return.
No, no and no. He doesn’t get by with elite athleticism. He gets what he gets with effort, great anticipation, savvy passing and taking smart shots. Those are not diminishing skills. Even when his athleticism does let up, he’ll be a valuable bench guy for years. He has logged less minutes than Kevin Durant, Rajon Rondo and so many others.
Keep the guy who is playing the best ball of any Cavalier this year (yes, he’s playing better than a healthy Kyrie) and give the team something to play for.
The last two seasons, look at when the majority of our losses came through. 26 game losing streak? Happened without Andy in the lineup. Not only should he be an All-Star Center this year (starter no less) he should be a guy strongly considered for MIP (Most Improved Player.)
Over the next four years, the Cavs will likely have 7 first-round picks AND 7 second-round picks. Why do they need more?
Why would we want Maynor again? I don’t think it’s worth losing Andy for a backup point guard.
I would much rather have a combination of Collison and Jeremy Lamb.
OKC doesn’t have pieces we can really use. The protection on the Toronto pick crushes its value. Once the season is over, if we can get the #4 pick in addition to whatever pick we already have, that would be acceptable.
Keep Andy all season then move him in the off-season when there’s plenty of time to get creative with sign & trades for free agents etc.
He’s only 30, he isn’t going to melt before next year. Get what we can out of him for now, then move him while he still has max value.
I’ll say this much – If you want to trade Andy now, then you really shouldn’t have been mad at LeBron for leaving – loyalty cuts both ways. Andy is underpaid and an all-star – I’m not trading him, unless somebody absolutely blows my face off with an offer
The trade would have been for Harden. Varejao for Harden and probably a piece or two to make the trade work salary-wise and talent-wise. Too bad that wont happen anymore. What other contender is in the position to offer us that type of talent? Boston maybe….Offering us Sully, Avery Bradley and 2 firsts? not going to do it. San Antonio could offer us Danny Green……………………………………..oh right, we cut him for Manny Harris……………………..Denver might be intriguing to get someone like Kenneth Faried and/or one of their good young players (lawson, Hamilton, Gallo). But would they really part with one of them AND a 1st rounder after just trading for iggy? I dont think so.
I am definitely in the “Keep Varejao” camp. But if a real offer presented itself don’t you HAVE to think about it? But what team could offer us a good enough offer to make market value? Market value is a good young player with upside PLUS a good pick and possibly another player or two.
Young guys on the team need veteran leadership to lean on. Not only will we not get back what andy is worth in ANY realistic scenario, we will also be replacing veteran leadership with another young kid. draft picks are good, but the value of having veterans in the locker room is being painfully underrated when discussing Varajao. Who else on the team has legitimate NBA experience? I can name one: Gibson. Walton, Casspi, Miles… nope, nope, and nope. Keep Andy.
imagine 2-3 years from now when we are truly competing for a championship, having Andy come off the bench. what a luxury! he is a big part of how far we will be able to go. the young guys love him, and who better to be teaching the team?!? seriously, who would you rather have as a mentor/contributor right now….tim duncan, maybe. even he can get lazy at times. Plus he has Finals experience and is hands down the best pick and roll center in the league. Andy is irreplaceable…period!
I think we’re overreacting a little here. The best pick and roll center in the league? I love Andy, don’t get me wrong, but Dwigt Howard is far and away the best pick and roll center in the NBA.
I’d probably have to consider an Ibaka + Toronto’s first rounder for Andy, but that’s about the first offer that makes even a little bit of sense for both teams that I’ve heard of. Still, I highly doubt OKC would do it, but they might since they have so much young talent still coming up and would save money next year for a better player.
I would be flabbergasted and quite upset if we traded Andy for just a pick unless it was guaranteed to be top 4 this year. There are so many lottery picks that never turn out to be as good as Andy is, and as Andy likely will be in 3 or 4 years. It would nice to complete a core that will be able to compete for a decade, but I just want one championship, not 5, and I think having Andy in 2014-2016 will do far more to give us a chance at a ring than any random lottery selection in the upcoming draft, it’s not close.
For all those saying Andy is going to fall off a cliff and can’t possibly be of any use when Dion and Kyrie are hitting their primes, lets remember KG was the main ingredient in his first championship at 31 years old, and was still the main anchor of teams that lost in 7 games in the finals at 33 and lost in 7 to the eventual champion at 35 as well (posting pretty great numbers in doing so). Andy’s not KG, but he similarly is an excellent defensive player who doesn’t block a ton of shots (requiring the age-diminishing explosive jump), and who (now) has some range on his jumper and effects the game in ways the box score can’t account for by pure hustle and willpower. He also will have a ton less mileage at similar ages than KG did.
Varejao’s game is predicated on skill. he has real identifiable post moves, is an excellent passer/rebounder/defender and can play the pick and roll. He is a top 5 forward/center at rebounding, defense, the pick and roll, and playing in the high post. This is what will make him last a long time as an effective player. his high post game will always play well (think Pau Gasol or KG), rebounding skills will diminish slightly but he will still be effective (maybe he goes down to 9 a game!!!) and his ability to pass and play the pick and roll wont get worse with age. He still has plenty of years left of high quality BBall. Yes, he is peaking and the next couple years will be his prime, but as we see with guys like KG, Kobe, Steve Nash, Dirk, and others, a game predicated on skill can lead to a long AND productive career.
On the Andy versus Dwight Howard comparison: By some measures, Andy is the better center this year. The reason is that over 48 minutes, Howard scores 5 points and blocks 3 more shots, while Andy grabs 6 more rebounds, passed 2 more assists, turned the ball over 2 times fewer, and fouled 1.5 times fewer.
Put that together, and you have a matter of opinion of what you value more. For example, Wins Produced says that Andy is much better, because they value his superior abilities to get his teammates the ball so they can score almost as much as actually scoring it. PER also puts Varejao ahead, 24.5 to Howard’s 21.5.
So what that means, in a nutshell, is that (a) Andy is clearly an All-Star caliber center this year, and (b) the price of Andy in trade has to be an All-Star caliber player making well under a max contract. I firmly doubt that anyone is prepared to meet that price, which means don’t trade Andy.
Here’s basically what I’m looking at:
http://www.thenbageek.com/players?positions=C&positions=PF
I really don’t want to get younger, at some point we need to stop drafting and start adding players through FA and trades. We need experience to go with our young players
Anyone thinking we can get Ibaka for Andy needs to lay off the bath salts.
OKC let Harden go for Ibaka and Perkins, there is no way they are letting go of Ibaka for anytthing less than kyrie Irving.
Dani, I want so badly to respond, but I’m saving it for when Mallory tags me for Cavs The Duel, Part II: the AV club wars.
I’m firmly in the “no” camp. Even with only two more years of Andy….the things he can teach our youngsters are numerous, and his attitude is infectious. He does whatever he’s told, and will do whatever it takes to win. He’s MKG without the athleticism….but 4 inches taller and with 10 years experience.
I know his trade value will never be higher, but I think the Cavs are a better team in two years with a 32-year old Varejao than they are with Eric Maynor and 2013 lottery pick X.
There was a good article (may have been on this site, I honestly can’t remember) where Andy was basically compared to Dennis Rodman and the similarities are striking. There is no reason to believe that Andy can’t keep up this type of production in the coming years, because he doesn’t rely on athleticism, quickness or any of that. He has gone from a pure energy/defense guy to a skilled energy guy/monster rebounder and I want him to finish his career in Cleveland.
Plus, I seriously doubt we would be able to recoup similar value because many people still seem to think of Andy as the energy-guy-who-takes-charges and nothing more. As Austin Carr says, this guy is priceless.
The Cavs brass should be doing whatever they can to maintain cap flexibility and entice #6 to return after next season. Keep Andy.
Just to add to my previous comment, there are 3 numbers that need to be hanging in the rafters of the ‘Q’ eventually.
11, 17, and yes, 23.
Offer Andy an in-season contract extension, behind the scenes. If he balks, trade him only for proven talent that still has some years left on their contract.
Vesus – yeah that was here. http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=14046
@Ben Frambaugh Andy was in the lineup when they lost 20 of 21 games during that 26 game streak and 36 loses in 37 games. Andy didn’t tear his ankle until January 9th. The 26 game losing streak ended on February 11th with a win over the Clippers I believe.
Matching his value in a trade won’t be easy and other teams would have reservations of trading for Andy also. We’ve broken down players who have had more minutes than Andy in less years, but Andy also has more missed games to injury than combinations of those players combined. We don’t really know what Andy’s actual value is. We just presume that it would be a young player with All-Star potential or a lottery pick. If not one of the 29 other teams agree with that, then that isn’t his value. Whatever it is, no one has offered what Chris Grant thinks Andy’s worth. I doubt he’s getting traded because there isn’t a deal out there that really makes sense for both sides. Warriors are the closest I could come up with in a deal of Barnes and Jarret Jack (expiring deal) and I don’t know if that would work for either side.
@Versus I agree with 11 and 23 right now. It’ll take a little more from 17 to get up there.
I love that someone mentioned that our plans should include the potential of enticing a LeBron return. I couldn’t agree more. I firmly believe that LeBron would welcome a return and a chance to cement his legacy by bringing his home state a title. The Prodigal Son returns.
Return of the King…He’s not staying in Miami for good. I’ve shit on Lebron quite a bit but the guy does love Ohio. I’ll give him that. The cHeat’s roster won’t age well, his prime will outlast Wade’s and he’s a grass is greener kind of guy. He left to go to SVSM and he left for the collusion troika. In 2014, 15 or 16 he will be leaving. By then the Cavs should have pretty good cast of characters on their own and he already has a friendship with Kyrie, Andy and Tristan. There would be competition from the Lakers and maybe Dallas if they still have the cap room and CP3 goes there this summer. It’s nothing more than a pipedream and probably a fairly divided one at the moment. Time does heal wounds though even though the scars remain. Danny Dan Gilbert is a bid-ness man. Dude can rock a shekel. He’s already moved on but he would welcome him back. If for no other reason that it would be good for bid-ness.
Cory, “That dude can rock a shekel” is officially one of my favorite lines. And I really hope you guys don’t seriously want Lebron back. He built this city, then set it on fire and watched it burn.
And Carter, what does that even mean? If I want to trade Andy, I shouldn’t be mad at Lebron for leaving? If the Cavaliers traded Anderson Varejao, they would inform him of the possibility, inform him where he was going, give him a big hug and probably retire his jersey. Trading Andy is nothing like the star and heart of a basketball team deciding to go to a different team in free agency with nothing so much as a whisper of a warning. It’s not on the same level, scale, or hemisphere.
17 is in the rafters today. Right now. The most popular player of his time and went to the Finals. It’s not like we’re the Celtics and have little rafter space…
No Dion tonight. Damn. Btw, from another blog: “Without Dion Waiters on the court, the Cavs are currently scoring 15.3 points per 100 possessions less than with him.” Yeah…sooooooo many rookies better than him…sure…
KJ
There’s plenty of rafter space, but there should be some reasonable criteria for retiring a guys jersey. Andy was the 6th man on the worst Finals team of all-time. 98 minutes total in four games. 7/5. It would pretty much be retiring his jersey for the past three years, of which he was hurt half of the time and those teams were three of the Cavs worst six teams winning percentage-wise in their existence. If he keeps up this play for another two or three seasons sure.
Has anyone seen Zeller lately? In those two overtimes, he was hustling and grabbing offensive boards like a miniature Varejao. Varejao’s hustle rubs off on everyone, and it’s great to have a veteran that can still do the things he is harping on teammates for. If he and Zeller get more playing time together, we could put out the must annoying front court in the league. Zeller has some natural talent beyond hustle too. What Varejao can teach him is going to really help him become a great center for the future.
nothingwood, I’m not expecting Zeller to be the next Varejao but I am hoping he’s learning how to play with Kyrie by watching Andy. Zeller could become a nice little weapon to have at the top of the key. His shot from out there is starting to drop, he’s athletic enough to roll to the basket, and tonight you could see him working on passing it back down low (with mixed results, but still encouraging.)
Dani, Gotta seriously disagree with you there. If you are trying to hang Varejoa out there for any asset you can get because you don’t think he’ll help you win a championship, even though he’s tried his best for you and proven very deserving, and only gotten better and better, it is very similar to what Lebron did. Sure, we might have the tact to inform him, but if its a deadline deal, what does it matter that we tell him 20 minutes before it goes public and he has to move the next day?
The blade cuts both ways. And I think any tact we are making up is easily lost by the public and popular fan opinion that we should move our best, most loyal player who is just hitting his prime for a mid lottery pick. Something Andy most certainly hears and has to deal with.
“I know his trade value will never be higher, but I think the Cavs are a better team in two years with a 32-year old Varejao than they are with Eric Maynor and 2013 lottery pick X.”
What about in three years when Varejao isn’t under contract and the Cavs are looking to finally start to really contend? The world doesn’t end in two years, we need to figure out what we’re going to do after that, especially considering the current state of the roster, we won’t really be contending before then, even if Varejao keeps this up.
I kind of agree with Steve. There needs to be a three year plan every year. A part of the doomed Lebron era was that they could never plan for the future because the gun was always to their head to WIN NOW or he’ll leave.
Players get traded. There’s no guarantee that Andy stays after two years either. He tried to leave before and is only in Cleveland because they matched his offer. I like the guy and I could go either way with trading him. If they can get the Raptors pick I’d do it. I’d do a deal based around Barnes as well. I don’t think anyone in the forum would advocate trading him just to do it or to tank more. I’d also be okay with them keeping him. They have a plethora of draft picks coming and their own in 2013 should be high.