I miss this.
PHOENIX 91, CLEVELAND 78
Well, if we can take one positive out of tonight, it’s that Anderson Varejao is amazing. That’s about it. Every other Cavs player mixed whatever good they did with a healthy helping of bad. A few were perhaps quasi-effective, but the individual performances tonight did not add up to a winning team performance. Not even close, in fact. This Cavs-Suns tilt was ugly on both ends of the floor, and it hurts my brain to even attempt to attempt at establishing a narrative for the game other than “Wow, the Cavs without Kyrie suck a little more than the Suns.” As such, I’ll go ahead and talk about the game by way of bullet point.
- Tristan Thomspon wasn’t impressive. Marcin Gortat and Luis Scola are a solid post duo, but they looked like Sampson and Olajuwon when defending Tristan down low. He has no offensive repertoire to speak of. Tigger shot 1-7 from the field for 5 points, and had no blocks or steals. However, I’d like to point out that he shot 3-4 from the free throw line. That’s not bad at all.
- Alonzo Gee was solid. He played some good defense, though that sort of thing is hard to quantify against the Suns, especially in a game like tonight’s- either they were scoring every time down the floor on an array of difficult shots, or they were missing an unconscionable amount of layups and corner threes. But we got the kind of ball we’ve come to both expect and treasure from Alonzo: 3-7 from the field for 12 points, a killer dunk, and a few steals and assists to go along with his constant flight around the floor. All NBA D-League players should take notes from Alonzo on how to make the NBA. The main thing is to play harder than anyone else on the floor.
- Jeremy Pargo played like Donald Sloan. 3-12 for 8 points. 5 points, 5 turnovers. Against Goran Dragic, who isn’t exactly a lock-down defender. He also had 5 fouls, playing the point guard position. How is that even possible? Let’s just move on.
- C.J. Miles straight-up dominated a 35-second stretch of this game, dropping six straight points. Unfortunately, it was the last 35 seconds of the game, and he sucked for the rest of the game. He missed a bunch of jumpers, and didn’t do anything else particularly well. It’s hard to believe that Byron Scott continues to play him over Omri Casspi, who looked at least mildly effective in 13 minutes and hit a couple of shots.
- Anderson Varejao is a monster, 20 points, 18 boards. The fifth straight 15+ rebound game in a row for Andy. He was on fire in the 3rd quarter, when he hit a flurry of mid-range jumpers on his way to 14 in the quarter. Without Wild Thing, the Cavs would have lost this game by 30. At the beginning of the season, I was all for trading Andy. But he’s played himself out of trade talks. There’s nothing of equal value that we could get in return.
-Dion Waiters actually had a decent game, despite another mediocre shooting night (7-20 from the field). He dished out 7 assists, and some of them were beauties. His play-making ability seemed almost Harden-esque at times, as he put the ball on the floor and whipped cross-court passes with ease. When Dion learns how to finish at the rim and hit his jumper regularly, he’ll be a real star in this league.
- Pretty much everyone else on the team sucked. I would love to blame this loss on Luke Walton, but he didn’t play. It was weird to see Tyler Zeller playing for the Suns. Or was that his brother, Luke? I couldn’t tell. Tough loss. Goodnight, folks.
Tags: Alonzo Gee, anderson varejao, dion waiters, Jeremy Pargo, Omri Casspi, Phoenix Suns
Varejao just continues to amaze me. He had 20 points with maybe 3 shots in the paint and no free throws. Just unbelievable. One thing I watched for in particular this game was Zeller’s D. It was about as bad as I could have even imagined. Watching Jermain Oneal treat him like a high school player was really sad. After 3 or 4 consecutive schoolings they switched Varejao onto him and he quickly went back to being Jermaine Oneal ’12. The Cavs minus Varejao looked a step slow all night. They’ve had a brutal schedule. Anytime anyone got near the paint it was just throwing that ball in the general vicinity of the backboard. Hopefully they get healthy and rested soon.
Yeah, yikes. I believe at one point TT, Pargo, and C.J. Miles were a combined 0-14 from the field. With all this youth we’ve got, sometimes I wish we could plug in the D’Antoni formula and see how the team rolls with it. Right now, it seems like our offense is stuck inside an impenetrable textbook.
I love Gee though. He reminds me of Bobby Phils back in the day. Perfect player and will be even better by the end of the year.
AV tasted the Olympics and has come back with the wll to dominate…the rebounding category. The amount of offensive rebounds he pulls down each night is why we’ll be able to stay in the game with anyone in the league. Unfortunately, the more offensive rebounds he grabs, the more we’re missing.
Dion wants to move faster than the offense. Love his energy. He just needs an offense that allows him to break free. Byron’s got to loosen his mentor grip and get Pargo to push the tempo as much as possible. We won’t win these grindfests. We’re skinny, young, and a work in progress. But we could be one of the fastest teams in the league.
C’mon, guys. The Cavs were so bad tonight….I thought I was pretty positive on some points here, But there’s some things you can’t spin.
I hope this was fatigue. I just don’t get it. If they can almost beat the Heat and Grizzlies; why can’t they get over on the Suns??? You’re right about Zellar and TT. Not sure who was worse? Hopefully they play with strength next game!!
I hope so, TV63. Maybe the Cavs were just worn out after the close games that preceded this one.
Tristan is being more aggressive looking for his shot and he is getting good looks at the rim, they just aren’t falling. Baby steps.
I don’t know how I wound up here from Bucksketball.. But since I’m here.. Good read. Best of luck… Well, except against Milwaukee. Good work.
I rarely comment, but when I do, it’s in bullet points.
-I hope the nickname tigger finally catches on. I remember everyone finds it not only inventive, but just a joy to scream out loud.
-Nothing makes me happier than reading about how Tristan’s every game is a referendum on Chris Grant’s tenure. Tying every mediocre performance to Chris Grant is a rhetorical strategy I’ll never tire of. Not even if every post mentions it repeatedly. Just try it!
-I miss John Krolik.
“-Nothing makes me happier than reading about how Tristan’s every game is a referendum on Chris Grant’s tenure. Tying every mediocre performance to Chris Grant is a rhetorical strategy I’ll never tire of. Not even if every post mentions it repeatedly. Just try it!”
Worth quoting because it’s so true. Is this plan here at CTB? Go after Grant every time Thompson has a bad game? Even though it was quite possibly the worst draft class in the last decade?
Actually, point well taken…fixed it. I agree with you. I wouldn’t prefer Valanciunas, and while I think Tristan isn’t very good, Grant didn’t have many options.
“I will always give Grant enormous credit for keeping Andy until now and drafting Kyrie.”
But, somehow, this is never mentioned in recaps or other posts. When Kyrie has a nice game, which is often, we don’t read a sentence praising Grant. No, only when it comes to TT do we often get these Grant references and they generally come in a negative light.
You know, that is a good point, Rich…Look, it’s hard not to fall into the rut of “Cleveland sports suck, so let’s all be negative,” and I probably make that mistake as much as anyone else. But I do think that Kyrie was the clear #1 pick, while Tristan was a shocker at #4- so clearly, Grant’s reputation will be tied closer to the gamble than the sure thing. But I do agree that Grant deserves more credit than he is given in a lot of ways. The Cavs suck, sure, but I like where we are as a team better than the Pistons.
Hey Rich – don’t know who dustinello is, but is he now the spokesperson for CtB? Chris Grant hasn’t factored in much to game recaps since he doesn’t suit up.
Hey Tom, hope you don’t mind me fielding that query. I am not the spokesperson for CtB, although I would apply if the position is ever created. Supposing that it pays better than the few bucks I make adjuncting. And also if I get summers off. That’s a big one for me.
I’ve tried to submit a comment twice but it seems to get eaten. Maybe it’s my computer.
I’ll focus on the positive stuff. Alonzo Gee reminds me of Bobby Phils. He’s only going to get better. I see him as a becoming a consistent 14 points 6 rebounds a game guy who delivers solid defense.
I love AV, and his awesomeness when it comes to offensive rebounding is scary, simply because it means the better that stat gets, the more we are probably missing. While Kyrie is out, I’d like to see what AV would do with 20 shots a game. It’s got to be better than 35% fun and gun Dion. The less the offense runs through Dion the better. Not because he’s doing poorly, but because it’s unnatural. This is Kyrie’s team. And right now Pargo needs to lead it. Dion should be the secondary option and carefully choose 15 shots a game. Half of those attempts should be in the lane.
Also, I don’t know if Byron has it in him, but it’d be lovely to see this team play a bit more D’Antoni ball. We must be the skinniest team in the league, but we could be pretty quick. These grind out games will almost be impossible for us to win, even with Varejao getting 20 boards a game.
CtB used to be the place to go for solid perspective on everything Cavaliers. Somehow the ReCaps have morphed into a bunch of FO and player bashing. The sophomoric nicknames being used for some of the players just drag the sites quality down another level.
The lack of appreciation for the positive things going on with the team is disheartening. If the woe is us attitude continues to pervade this site it will soon become another Cleveland sports site requiring an antidepressant scrip to visit.
I actually enjoy the rebuilding process and this might be my favorite part. At this point we have nothing but hope and curiosity about what this squad will become. Will the rebuild go awry or will they defiantly knock the Heat out of the playoffs in two years with Dan Gilbert doing Degeneration X crotch chops as Lebron and the collusion three walk off the court? Our expectations are tempered for the moment and we get to enjoy the smallest glimpses of growth. This is the good part guys. Really. We’ll expect a lot more soon. Enjoy it. The future stars slow. I look at our Cavs as I do at a 4 grade class picture. What they will become is a mystery. They all have hope and the spectrum of their futures is wide open. One could be a doctor and another could turn out to be a con man. One could be paralyzed and another could work at a fast food restaurant and win the lottery….And they all could be stranded by a plane crash on a mysterious island….
I miss John Krolik too!
I agree with some of you that this blog often is overly negative, but I honestly can’t even tell whether the complaints about this recap are real or facetious. Most of the Cavs played poorly tonight, and Dani honestly called them out while still providing plenty of praise where appropriate. Will someone please point out a specific problem you have with the supposed negativity of this recap?
Can someone show me where, exactly, I was unfairly negative? I thought the recap had a fair amount of compliments proportional to complaints for a game in which we lost big to a terrible team.
Perhaps every game, Cavs:the Blog will post a recap that details the game, positive and negative, and also a “Rainbow Review”, for those who are into that sort of thing.
I’ll take a crack at distilling Dani’s recap into a “Rainbow Review”:
“Playing their fourth game in five days, the Cavs lost tonight. Anderson Varejao is amazing and a monster though, posting 20 points and 18 rebounds. He’s untradeable right now, as there is no way the team gets equal value in return.
Dion Waiters distributed some beautiful dimes; his play was Harden-esque at times. When his shots at the rim start falling, he’ll be a real star.
Alonzo Gee was solid, playing good D and offering the type of game we treasure from him: a sick dunk, a couple steals, and all-around hustle.
Other than that, there’s not much to say. I primarily attribute the loss to the Cavs being tired, and the Suns probably using performance enhancing drugs.
Until next time, friends…”
Hopefully that recap hits the sweetspot.
Also, I was a huge admirer of the Krolik-run blog. I inquired about writing here, because I thought it was such a high quality site.
But John wrote about a 60+ win team that was among the NBA’s elite. Even then, he was critical of Hickson, Mo and Jamison’s defense, etc. There was just alot more to be excited about then. The Cavs are the fourth youngest team in the league; there are going to be warts. Cavs:the Blog will talk about them, and I am sure that John Krolik would have too.
Just an FYI
I didn’t post at the top of this thread. Someone else was using my name.
This was a much better recap than there has been lately. No talk of uncle’s crying in the night.
I agree completely about Andy. I was sort of in the trade him camp at the beginning of the year. But he’s been amazing.
Thanks Cory for remaining upbeat. I also think the Cavs will be a good team soon. We know Dan Gilbert is committed to building a championship team. The road they are on now is painful. However, I think it’s wise to be cautious before going “all in” on free agency/trades. Once you do that, there’s no turning back. Remember how trading for Shaq and Jamison locked the Cavs into that roster for a few years? Hopefully, they will have a few young players that will develop on the roster before hitting free agency.
“No, only when it comes to TT do we often get these Grant references and they generally come in a negative light.”
-That’s because when you pick someone no one expects to go in the top 10 at number 4, you better not f$%#ing miss. This cannot be stated enough, NO ONE thought the Cavs were going with Tristan Thompson except John Hollinger. Everyone had us picking Jonas Valanciunas(Who btw has a higher FG%, higher PPG, less TOs, more blocks, better FT %, in LESS minutes than TT this season).
Chris Grant gambled huge on the TT pick and it’s really hurting us right now. Having a mobile active 7” center that can block shots next to Andy solves a lot of our interior defensive problems. If you’re going to gamble as a general manager and fail, you have to eat some crow over it. C:TB is very fair in their criticism of CG.
WitmI
I think most people aren’t considering that Valanciunas’ agent was steering him away from the Cavs. He wouldn’t give Chris Grant a straight answer about when he would be available. If Chris Grant picked Valanciunas knowing that he might not play for them, and then Valanciunas doesn’t ever report to the Cavs, then what? It’s a factor that should be considered when discussing the pick.
Scuzz,
I have never seen a confirmed report stating that anywhere.
I don’t think the Cavs wanted a player who would stay in Europe for another year.
“The news would also come as a blow to the Cavs. Cleveland had been high on Valanciunas and was expected to select him with the No. 4 pick. However, concerns about his buyout situation in Lithuania arose the week before the draft and the Cavs opted to play it safe and instead take Texas’ Tristan Thompson after taking Duke’s Kyrie Irving with the first pick. Had they known Valanciunas could come over this season, they likely would’ve taken him at No. 4.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/33695/source-valanciunas-may-play-in-nba-this-season
It was also on a Chad Ford podcast with Ryen Russilo recorded shortly after the draft. If I can find it, I’ll post the link. However, that’s old and may not be available. The above quote is the closest thing I can find to it for now.
Whew. Glad i missed this one. Sounded painful. As for TT versus JV, I’m not that convinced JV is all that and a back of chicklets. It’s pretty obvious at this point that 2011 was a 1 star deep draft, and the players all grade out at the same “tier” 2-25. Anyway, realistic options instead of TT at that pick: JV, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, and Bismack Biyambo. What they probably should’ve done is trade down… Kenneth Faried or Nikola Vujevic would’ve been better options, but they didn’t. I’m ready to move on.
Let’s say for arguments sake that TT ends up sucking. They still hit on Irving, and seemingly Waiters. If a team hits home runs on picks 2 out 3 times, they are going to be pretty good.
Remember in that draft even Irving wasn’t considered a star in the making. Give Grant some credit. A lot of people were talking about taking Williams or Brandon Knight.
Recap was fine tonight, they played a really poor game against a really poor team. Come on guys. If we’re going to critique, let’s do it legitimately
I’ll return once more before retiring to the abyss of passive readership. That is, until the spokesperson job opens or I get frustrated with content again. Let me just clarify a couple points:
I don’t know if Chris Grant is doing a good job or a mediocre job. I know that he is not destroying the Cavaliers’ future by signing albatross long-term high-salary contracts. But, as of yet, there’s not much evidence that he’s building a championship contender either. We all get that. All I mean to say is that I don’t think harping on that subject is warranted considering he has made some good moves in ridding the team of bad contracts and stockpiling assets. What he’s done with those assets hasn’t exactly been inspiring, but not laughably absurd either. Tristan hasn’t panned out. We get it and it’s worth mentioning. But, Tristan’s not done growing as a player and he may yet be a decent pick up considering all the available options in that draft class. I have no problem with the criticism, I just don’t like the repetition when the verdict is still out. Grant hasn’t reached Isiah Thomas or Mike Dunleavy status yet.
I also don’t think everybody expects a rainbow review when that completely contradicts what we’re seeing on the court. (Although I do think that condescension and patronization are key to maintaining committed readership.) One of the things that I miss about Krolik’s writing is that he was thorough in his criticism, not to mention humorous. Krolik demonstrated considerable support for his arguments and presented them fairly and consistently. I always felt that the coaching staff could learn something from reading Krolik, whether that’s true or not, one got that impression because of how clearly he made his case. I understand that because I made this comment under Dani’s post that it seems it’s directed solely at him. Dani, for the most part, is pretty fair and I appreciate he’s open to constructive criticism as evidenced above. Kevin, I rather enjoy reading your posts. Although I don’t always agree with what you’re saying, you demonstrate your points so thoroughly that it’s easy to see how you reach each conclusion and it’s generally smart. Thank you. Write more please.
It’s not about the team on the court. It’s about style and substance in the blog. When I want to be inundated with cheap, unsubstantiated jabs, I read the comment section. I visit this blog for thoughtful and thorough analysis. That’s the type of blog I would like to promote as spokesperson. So, in short, please feel free to write about how awful this team is, what a horrific job Byron Scott is doing and please point out all the mistakes from upper management. I don’t have to agree, but I should feel persuaded. Just don’t harp on the same subject over and over until it’s time to inspire a rebellion.
“Whew. Glad i missed this one. Sounded painful. As for TT versus JV, I’m not that convinced JV is all that and a back of chicklets. It’s pretty obvious at this point that 2011 was a 1 star deep draft, and the players all grade out at the same “tier” 2-25. Anyway, realistic options instead of TT at that pick: JV, Kawhi Leonard, Klay Thompson, and Bismack Biyambo. What they probably should’ve done is trade down… Kenneth Faried or Nikola Vujevic would’ve been better options, but they didn’t. I’m ready to move on.”
JV projects as a starter, I doubt Tristan will ever be able to play in the 4th quarter.
Scuzz, that is a ridiculous excuse. Toronto isn’t that hot of a destination over cleveland, and even if Valunciunas would have waited an extra year or two to come here, he would have still come before we were competing for ships. If grant didn’t draft him because his agent or he said “I don’t to play there” than Grant should be criticized for it. Call the bluff, if he doesn’t want to come, you can always trade his rights. As it is, we have a guy who hopefully will become a decent backup instead. Grant should get roasted for not calling the bluff if he thought Jonas was the better player.
The article you link was from before the 2011 season, so was pretty wrong, as Jonas didn’t come over immediately even for Toronto. We didn’t need him for our 19-47 team last year regardless.
Dustinello,
Thanks for momentarily surfacing from the abyss of passive readership. I rescued your comment from the Monster that frequents that abyss.
Kyrie: one must remember that one of the GM’s jobs is to take the fall for stupid decisions the owner makes. Chris Grant may have wanted to draft JV, and the owner may have not wanted to wait. Aditionally, they probably didn’t want to deal with a guy who was going to be on a #4 contract later on down the line when they’re dealing with extensions for Kyrie, etc. Just a thought.
Oh come one
If Grant had draft Jonas and he decided he didn’t want to come and play for Cleveland, we’d be criticizing him for that as well.
It’s OK to criticize Grant. The problem is that Grant has been a pretty good GM so far. Getting us Kyrie and Waiters is pretty awesome. Thompson is only in his 2nd year and has plenty of time to improve. Even if he doesn’t and he’s just a bench guy, that’s still a sweet record for a GM to have.
This idea that Grant is THE WORST GM IN THE WORLD because Thompson hasn’t been awesome is absurd.
KyrieSwIrving,
Toronto is a much larger city than Cleveland. The population is more than 6 times larger (2,615,060 vs. 393,806), and it’s a international city. You can criticize Grant if you want. In the end though, there was risk involved.
The point of the article was that the Cavs were high on Valunciunas. Several people have the opinion that the Cavs were higher on Tristan, which may not be true.
is shabazz really who we want to target? i think i’d rather have noel. that high top fade is sick.
I understand the criticism of TT on offense, but I don’t understand why everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he has been basically our best defensive player all year. Look at the points allowed per possession numbers. When he’s on the court they allow 103.9 pointer per 100 possessions compared to 121.3 when he’s off the court. That is easily the best on our team, and much better than JV currently.
Kyrie and Dion are there to carry the team offensively in the future. TT was brought in to rebound and play good defense. He’s probably never gonna be able to carry a team offensively, but to say he’s a bust, especially considering the other players to come out in that draft class and that he has yet to play a full season’s worth of NBA games, isn’t exactly fair.
Andysav
I agree. He also has time to develop offensively. I’m not sure why CTB is so down on him.
You know that we don’t have meetings do discuss official blog rhetoric, right? He shoots like 40% from the field at the PF position and he doesn’t seem to have improved much. Everyone that criticizes him on the blog has done so based on their personal opinion, not website policy.
dustinello – don’t go back to being passive. You’re adding value in the comments. I also don’t know if Chris Grant is doing a good job or not. I don’t really know if B Scott is either. Kyrie over Derrick Williams wasn’t a slam dunk so I’ll give him credit for making the right call there. It is going to take a lot to convince me that Tristan Thompson was the right selection – and it’s more than just Thompson, it’s selecting the PF position, which I thought to be the Cavs deepest position around that time. It’s too early to call Thompson a bust and it was a very weak draft after Kyrie so it’s not like passed on Melo and Wade for Darko. (btw did anyone watch that PTI thing all about LeBron’s PTI coverage for his career?! At one point Kornheiser said Darko would be the best out of LeBron, Darko, Melo. !!!!! He should have just been fired for that. It’s WAY too easy for sports analysts to recover from saying patently absurd things). I’ll give Grant the benefit of the doubt for some time. I really like the Waiters pick. It was gutsy, and I would have done it. Apparently he was furious last night with the way the Cavs played. I’d be too – that was really a horrific display.
Andysav for GM 2016
Ugh
It’s not that you can’t criticize Thompson, it’s the inordinate amount of time worrying about that pick. Like I’ve said, even if he only becomes a bench player, Grant still has a great draft record of Kyrie and Dion. How many teams have hit on backcourt players like that? Not many.
I think you can easily say that Chris Grant is doing a good job. I’m not sure about Byron Scott, but then I really have a hard time evaluating coaches. I am glad that we are no longer watching Mike Brown on the sideline. But oh yeah, Mallory’s uncle doesn’t like the way Scott stands on the sideline so he must be doing a bad job!
And no, Korheiser shouldn’t be fired for saying that. It’s PTI and he’s really entertaining on it. It’s not a show for serious analysis.
I think there’s a lot of things that we could split hairs about as far the how well Grant has done. Danny Green, Alonzo Gee, Kyrie, trading for the Clippers pick, TT, Dion…. Overall, I don’t think he’s made any jaw-dropping mistakes. OK, that’s not exactly a huge endorsement, but you get the point.
He’s treading water and collecting assets now. Which is fine, but any GM can do that. However, at some point (I believe after this season), the Cavs will pull the trigger on their cap space. They will sign a big-name FA, build the bench, and make a trade or two. I think that will be the true test of Chris Grant. He’ll have plenty of ammo, let’s see what happens.
Andysav – he has shown the ability to stay in front of good post scorers. I’ve noticed he has trouble securing rebounds that he gets his hands on. He is not better defensively than Varejao and probably not gee. But he is making discernible improvements and that is a good sign. His +/- has been solid this year. Some of that might be that he plays with Varejao often. Some is that Tyler Zeller can’t guard a traffic cone. But Thompson keeps good position in ISO situations. Hopefully Varejao elite ability to get every rebound he’s even remotely close to rubs off. His shot blocking has fallen this year. I think Nate thought it might be due to adding weight in the off season.
One thing is for certain; interest seems to be rising in the Cavs again. This has never been a huge site for comment traffic, but other than trades and around draft time, Cavs: the Blog never makes it to two pages of feedback on an article. Now, two straight recaps get there. I can’t keep up.
jlh – I don’t think many advanced stat analysts take sick high top fades into consideration. Maybe they should?