I miss this.
PHOENIX 91, CLEVELAND 78
Well, if we can take one positive out of tonight, it’s that Anderson Varejao is amazing. That’s about it. Every other Cavs player mixed whatever good they did with a healthy helping of bad. A few were perhaps quasi-effective, but the individual performances tonight did not add up to a winning team performance. Not even close, in fact. This Cavs-Suns tilt was ugly on both ends of the floor, and it hurts my brain to even attempt to attempt at establishing a narrative for the game other than “Wow, the Cavs without Kyrie suck a little more than the Suns.” As such, I’ll go ahead and talk about the game by way of bullet point.
- Tristan Thomspon wasn’t impressive. Marcin Gortat and Luis Scola are a solid post duo, but they looked like Sampson and Olajuwon when defending Tristan down low. He has no offensive repertoire to speak of. Tigger shot 1-7 from the field for 5 points, and had no blocks or steals. However, I’d like to point out that he shot 3-4 from the free throw line. That’s not bad at all.
- Alonzo Gee was solid. He played some good defense, though that sort of thing is hard to quantify against the Suns, especially in a game like tonight’s- either they were scoring every time down the floor on an array of difficult shots, or they were missing an unconscionable amount of layups and corner threes. But we got the kind of ball we’ve come to both expect and treasure from Alonzo: 3-7 from the field for 12 points, a killer dunk, and a few steals and assists to go along with his constant flight around the floor. All NBA D-League players should take notes from Alonzo on how to make the NBA. The main thing is to play harder than anyone else on the floor.
- Jeremy Pargo played like Donald Sloan. 3-12 for 8 points. 5 points, 5 turnovers. Against Goran Dragic, who isn’t exactly a lock-down defender. He also had 5 fouls, playing the point guard position. How is that even possible? Let’s just move on.
- C.J. Miles straight-up dominated a 35-second stretch of this game, dropping six straight points. Unfortunately, it was the last 35 seconds of the game, and he sucked for the rest of the game. He missed a bunch of jumpers, and didn’t do anything else particularly well. It’s hard to believe that Byron Scott continues to play him over Omri Casspi, who looked at least mildly effective in 13 minutes and hit a couple of shots.
- Anderson Varejao is a monster, 20 points, 18 boards. The fifth straight 15+ rebound game in a row for Andy. He was on fire in the 3rd quarter, when he hit a flurry of mid-range jumpers on his way to 14 in the quarter. Without Wild Thing, the Cavs would have lost this game by 30. At the beginning of the season, I was all for trading Andy. But he’s played himself out of trade talks. There’s nothing of equal value that we could get in return.
-Dion Waiters actually had a decent game, despite another mediocre shooting night (7-20 from the field). He dished out 7 assists, and some of them were beauties. His play-making ability seemed almost Harden-esque at times, as he put the ball on the floor and whipped cross-court passes with ease. When Dion learns how to finish at the rim and hit his jumper regularly, he’ll be a real star in this league.
- Pretty much everyone else on the team sucked. I would love to blame this loss on Luke Walton, but he didn’t play. It was weird to see Tyler Zeller playing for the Suns. Or was that his brother, Luke? I couldn’t tell. Tough loss. Goodnight, folks.
Tags: Alonzo Gee, anderson varejao, dion waiters, Jeremy Pargo, Omri Casspi, Phoenix Suns
@Dani I’m not trying to criticize CtB at all. I read this blog everyday. I just like talking about the Cavs and the TT debate is one of the more interesting ones going currently.
@Tom I know this year is much to small of a sample size to make an overall conclusion, but advanced statistics are pointing to TT being heavily underrated as a defender. It’s more that just +/-, on the year TT is holding opposing PF’s to a PER of 9.6 (average per 48 minutes) compared to opposing centers posting a 17.0 PER against Andy and opposing SF posting a 19.8 against Gee.
I’ll admit the guy tends to fail the eye test but he’s been putting up some strong defensive numbers so far this season.
“I understand the criticism of TT on offense, but I don’t understand why everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that he has been basically our best defensive player all year. Look at the points allowed per possession numbers. When he’s on the court they allow 103.9 pointer per 100 possessions compared to 121.3 when he’s off the court. That is easily the best on our team, and much better than JV currently.”
That stat just shows how horrible his bench replacements are, it doesn’t show that he’s very good.
I
@WitmI
The bench replacements are just as bad for Andy but his numbers don’t come close to matching TT’s.
When Andy is on the floor the D gives up 110.5 pts per 100 possessions compared to 110.8 when he is off the court.
When TT is on the floor the D gives up 103.9 points per 100 possessions compared to 121.3 when he’s off the court.
17.4 is a significantly larger differential than 0.3.
Some of the difference can be that Andy has to play with Zeller when TT goes to the bench, but Tristan gets plenty of run on the court with our scrub bench players too.
I’m actually willing to accept that Tristan is an impact defender. My main issue lies in his offense. In the NBA today, power forwards on successful teams are almost nearly always efficient at the least on offense, if not downright dangerous. Look at the power forwards on recent NBA Champions: Bosh, Dirk, Gasol, KG…
Now, I don’t expect the Cavs to contend for a title anytime soon. I’d be more than pleased with a playoff spot in the next year or two. Obviously, we aren’t going to acquire a superstar PF by then. But my point resides in the fact that Chris Grsnt wants to make this team one of the best in the NBA. That’s his endgame. To do that, I think the Cavs need a good offensive player at the 4…
Tristan is not only not a good offensive player- he’s nowhere near half-decent, to be honest. And that’s why I don’t think he can really be the PF of our future.
Cols, I think saying “Grant still has a great draft record of Kyrie and Dion” is a bit presumptuous. Dion has shown flashes, but is really an unknown at this point. Not criticizing grant for the pick, but its a bit risky to call that a slam dunk. Kyrie, as much as I love the kid, is still a complete liability on defense and can’t stay healthy. Not Grant’s fault, and I’d rather have him than anyone else from 2012, but those were the concerns about him coming out of duke and it may still come back to haunt us.
Now Grant also let Danny Green walk for nothing when we were/are in desperate need for a wing, and now Green is playing serious minutes for a contender and performing quite well. Grant also took Thompson, who may turn out to be a great defender, but has serious work to do to not be a liability on offense, and to even be able to play in end-game situations with his terrible free throw %. In drafting him, Grant passed on players of similar talent level (regardless of what you think of the draft, its not like TT was standing out at #4, then or now) to force out our best young asset on the roster, J.J. Hickson (currently averaging a double double for a middling Portland squad). As bad as Hickson was on defense, TT is worse on offense. TT is no slam dunk to be the better player, and even if he is, is the difference between the two worth that #4 pick? I don’t think so. Its not a question of if TT is better than Jonas, its a question of is Casspi, the imaginary Sacremento pick, and TT better than Jonas and Hickson? It doesn’t look like it right now, and I thought the same as soon as the trade of JJ was announced.
Now Grant has also done a great job getting and managing picks, assets, and exploring ways to improve via trade. I like him, but to say he’s done a “great” job is overstating things. Just like with Casspi, Jonas, Tristan, Dion and Zeller, the jury is still out, and the verdicts on those players are going to be fairly directly tied to the verdict on Grant as a GM.
Andysav – it’s really early in the season. I also noticed Tristan’s +/- being off the charts. I’m hoping it means something positive. +/- is such a noisy stat. Over the course of a season it can help inform opinion but over the course of 15 games it really doesn’t mean much. No one would look at Jeremy Pargo’s positive +/- and Kyrie Irving’s negative +/- and advocate that Pargo is the better player. I cannot use 15 games of +/- and off/def +/- to say that Thompson is superior to Varejao defensively. Thompson is working hard on D and in a few limited instances I’ve seen him body up a post player and win the battle. I hope it continues. But I wouldn’t use a 15 game +/- metric to say that Thompson is better defensively than Varejao, no matter how significant the differential might seem.
So many different topic going on in the comments section it’s hard to decide on what’s most important to point out.
First: I think the writers of this blog are doing a great job. I liked Krolik but I don’t ‘miss’ him. It’s easy to write a bunch of rainbows and butterfly type game recaps when you’re writing about a championship contending team. When writing about a bottom feeding lottery team – not so easy to be so positive (regardless how big of a fan you are). Even in last nights interview with B. Scott, he summed up the game by saying Andy was great and everybody else sucked. Pretty simple.
Second: TT is actually playing better than Andy was at this point in time in his career. Stats don’t lie and anyway you look at him, TT is playing solid basketball for a big who hasn’t been in the league the equivalent of a full season yet. I’m in the camp of people who would have prefered that we took JV (btw nobody including JV or his agent ever said they didn’t want to come to cleveland – I wish I knew who made that up, according to JV himself he was willing to go to any team that drafted him because he just wanted to live his dream of playing in the NBA). I personally believe that JV will ultimately be a better player than TT, but I don’t believe that TT deserves near the amount of critiicism he’s getting. As far as I’m concerned, once he learns to shoot free throws and go straight up with the ball instead of setting himself up for a dunk – he’ll be a good, possibly very good PF in the future.
Third: I still don’t know if Grant is a good GM or not. Kyrie was a can’t miss pick. TT, Waiters, Zeller are all TBD. Give them each a solid 2 season before passing judgement. I have opinions about each, but how they develop over the course of their first 2-3 years is what will ultimately matter. Grant not using the TPE from the Lebron deal bothers me, that was an asset that we wasted. Maybe there was nothing we could do with it, but I do question was that the right move or not. Also, we didn’t get any kind of value with Jamisons huge expiring contract, seems like a GM could have done something. Hickson for Casspi – that a question mark as well. Bottom line, looking at his draft picks, trades made (or not made) etc, can only be judged in another couple of years. If we are still in the lottery then we’ll be able to say ‘bad’ if we are in the playoffs then ‘average’ if we are contenders/top 4 in the east, then he’ll be ‘great’.
@Dani
I would say that teams need a offensive minded big, not necessarily a dominant PF. The Kobe-Shaq era Lakers didn’t have a dominating PF and won 3 rings, and while Tim Duncan is listed at PF its not exactly a secret that he played center for the spurs when they won their rings. And if we’re looking at the rosters of recent champs for our blueprint we may need to start looking into trading Kyrie for a wing because none of the recent winners (other than the Spurs for one of their rings) featured an all-star PG.
@Tom
It doesn’t really matter if TT is better defensively than Andy or not. I’m more trying to point out that so far this season our team has been playing its best ball with TT on the court.
Andysav – agreed. You can’t have 2 offensive liabilities in your frontcourt, but you can have one as long as he brings something to the other end. Ben Wallace on Pistons, Dennis Rodman on Bulls, Francisco Elson’s on Spurs(each example is getting weaker so I’ll stop). But it’s true. Joel Anthony is an undersized rim protector. You don’t need 2 offensively competent bigs to win a championship. That is, of course, assuming that you all-stars at almost every other position…
Maybe this is not appropriate to bring up here, and I don’t know his advanced stats and he was terrible on defense when he played for us, but J.J. Hickson is averaging 11.2 ppg, 10.5 rpg, and .7 bpg in under 30 minutes a game for Portland this year, whilst posting a nice 18.19 PER. He’s shooting over 51% from the field and 62% free throws. He’s only 24. Maybe we shouldn’t have gotten rid of him so quickly? Casspi has not panned out and who knows when we will ever get that conditional pick. I know Hickson was garbage for the Kings, but he has been pretty good for the Blazers since they picked him up off waivers. A combo of T.T. and Hickson at power forward would look pretty good on this team now that Jamison is gone, much better than anyone else we have on the bench to play PF.
Let us not forget that the Lakers had A.C. Green, Horace Grant, Robert Horry at power forward. None of those guys were slouches offensively or defensively.
@Bonus – did you listen to the podcast last week? I brought up Hickson. Thought we gave up on him too early.
@NUPE – what is it about TT that you say he is better now than Varejao was at this stage of his career (1 year in)? Even if I could be convinced of that, Varejao wasn’t a #4 pick so expectations were obviously going to be higher for TT. I think he could be solid as long as he’s paired with another big that can space the floor a little bit. Because regardless of what anyone wants to make out of TT’s skills (or lack thereof) – he doesn’t attempt shots outside the paint and I don’t think he ever will. I sincerely hope he works on the things you spoke of and not “his mid range game”. That ship is never coming into port, much like Boobie Gibson’s ball handling skills and floater that he allegedly worked on every summer his first couple years.
Bonus Wagner,
I can’t speak exactly as to Hickson’s performance. I’ve seen Portland a couple of times this year and he looked solid, but someone’s stats are lying on Portland. Their top-five minutes earners have PER’s between 17 and 19. Their first guy off the bench has a PER of 13.1, yet they are 6 – 8 with the 8th worst point differential in the league.
Looking at the regularized adjusted plus minus (RAPM) that i discussed a few recaps ago, that stat HATES Nic Batum, Damian Lillard and Meyers Leonard on defense. RAPM actually considers Hickson an average defender this year. Take all that for what it is worth, but I do think RAPM is my new favorite defensive stat.
This is cracking me up that people are bringing up Hickson. I got MURDERED for doing that last week even by the other CtB guys. Didn’t any of you guys pay attention. KyrieSw??
Varejao debuted in the NBA basically at the age that Tristan will be at the end of this season.
Tom,
I stand by what I said last week…basically, that I can’t imagine a scenario where I think “man, I wish we had JJ Hickson”. I’m holding out hope for the 11th pick in 2016…big things are coming then.
And as far as my beloved RAPM is concerned; Hickson is a slightly below average offensive and defensive player this year. That’s not a bad thing, but he’s entering his prime, and he’s an average-ish player. Meh.
I do find it very ‘Cleveland-ish’ that fans were pretty easily convinced that Drew Gooden wasn’t valuable (elite rebounder and decent shooter) and that TT “deserves time” and Hickson didn’t. Shows this town loves hard working high character guys. I loved Tyronne Hill and TT could be just like that if he ever learns to catch a ball. Hickson’s was frustrating because he couldn’t channel his elite athleticism into anything but a liability on defense and had a penchant for taking stupid shots. He was very Javale McGeeish. But he has an insane vertical and can finish in traffic and might one day be a decent mid-range shooter (he has the form, rotation, release). I understand why most people aren’t upset he’s gone, but I don’t think he was never in a great situation. It’s not easy being a rookie on a championship or bust team where any blown assignment can earn you a benching because your team can’t afford to lose a possession much less a game. Then he went into a situation where instead of being fed PnR dunks from LeBron he was trying to create his own shot using a face-up game, which he had never worked on. It was ugly and he struggled to be efficient. I think if he had shown some defensive growth the Cavs would have kept him, but he didn’t and they got impatient. If Thompson had been in the same situation he’d probably have better stats now – getting fed from LeBron for wide open dunks. He’s getting an opportunity to take his lumps and grow. It will be more meaningful to compare them in 2 or 3 years when Hickson’s career has hopefully stabilized (for him) and Thompson has a few years under his belt with familiar faces. Part of this looks worse now than before. Casspi showed a lot of promise his first year and now he can’t get in a game on a bad team. Thompson’s offensive shortcomings are more of an issue right now because the Cavs don’t have anyone that can score except Anderson Varejao. if he was just patrolling the paint on D and throwing down open dunks while Irving and Waiters were taking on the bulk of the scoring this wouldn’t be as much of a talking point. Last night I think 3 of the first 4 plays featured TT in iso situations around the paint and all of them were missed shots that went the other way. And he’s not getting double teamed – he just can’t score on his own, much like the entire bench sans Boobie and because of that he’s exposed.
Kevin – I know you do. I think we both have similar opinions on Hickson’s shortcoming and actual production. Where we differ is that I think the Cavs need above the rim guys that can finish some of these forays towards the basket. The Cavs entire offense right now is 1 on 5 isos that lead to 1 pass after a collapse. And it’s just a block party after that. I think Hickson provides that somewhat. It’s kinda water under the bridge but I think it makes for interesting discussion. Honestly if TT could finish like at all around the basket this team could be a lot better right now. They have some speedy guys with decent handles that can get into the teeth. But no one can finish, esp with KI out.
Please let us not ever say the name JJ Hickson again. The guy has never been any good. I’m really really glad he’s gone.
Plus I remember when fans were worried that the Cavs were going to trade Hickson because they thought he was so valuable. There’s a reason they were able to get so little for him.
If you don’t want to give Grant credit for Dion and Kyrie, that’s fine. Then don’t kill him for Thompson either. If those two guys are TBD, then so is Thompson.
I think Grant’s done a fantastic job so far. Irving, Waiters, and Andy all can be parts of a really good team. Thompson probably still can be, he’s just getting started.
Seriously, let’s never mention Hickson again. Or Mallory’s uncle.
Since Tom just mentioned these names – Drew Gooden, JJ and TT – each have good points to their game and each have glaring weaknesses that we all could see over the course of a season or 2. The main difference in the arguments and disagreements with the 3 is due to *when* they were on the Cavs.
If TT was on the Lebron Cavs as the other 2 were and his skills were exactly the same as they are now, I very much doubt he would have a single supporter within the fanbase. Can you imagine Lebron driving and feeding this guy for an easy bucket but he dropped it again or it got blocked again or he got fouled and missed 2 FT’s again. Good lord, he is an awful awful offensive player and I honestly have no idea what Grant saw in him to think he would improve. Maybe he has value on defense but his offensive game is so offensive that he sits in the 4th. Besides, he will have to have improve greatly on defense over the next few years to have the kind of impact of Ben Wallace or Rodman had in their primes. If thats what we’re hoping for from this guy, its not gonna be for many years from now.
Similarly, if we drafted Hickson 4th last year, and with us losing 50-60 games, we’d all be more impressed with his game than we were when he actually played for the Cavs 4+ years ago. Because there isn’t the urgency to win now like there was then and we can be satisfied seeing potential and hopefully improvement as their careers progress.
Regardless, there are some incredible homers who post on this blog and they vocally came out these last 2 days and the discussions between them and CtB writers was quite incendiary imo. Neither side will see the other sides view and it caused nothing but grief really. There were some good, non-partial posts today from Nupe, and Kevin, KyrieSwIrving for example but the overall tone of the blog these last few days has been very poor from my vantage point.
Theres 2-3 writers on this blog I like to read, 2-3 others I kinda don’t but there’s no point in calling any of them out. For the most part, I think they are impartial and call things as they each see it. The homerisms in some of the reader posts I can take until they get out of control and thats exactly what happened here lately and the reason for the fireworks.
I will say this though – one thing I do miss is Ryan Braun’s illustrations – where the heck have they been. They were generally lighthearted and good for a smile every now and then.
I just reread my post, and I was a bit too critical on TT and even though I may feel that way at times, many times actually, he is currently a Cav and does deserve some praise as well. Maybe I was just doing a 180 regarding the praise he’s gotten in these last 2-3 blog posts from the homers so I took it the other way a bit more harshly than I should have.
Anyways, I’ve never verified this with my own 2 eyes, but I always hear on broadcasts and articles is that TT is an extremely hard worker. So I’m hanging my hat on the fact that one day all his hard work will come to fruition. In that way, he does compare to Andy becuase we have seen how Andy has blossomed into a really good player and a very fun one to watch on offense and defense. But the thing is, even when Andy wasn’t a complete player like he is now, there were so many things fans loved about him and he has always been a fan favorite. You can’t say the same about TT. But again, lets hope the hard work pays off as a member of the Cavs and not some other team. It probably won’t happen though until his 2nd NBA contract.
Rick – TT seems like a very high character guy. Eric Snow was a high character guy and he had serious offensive deficiencies. He was still an effective player because he was such a relentless defender. TT does some things that, if refined, could make him an impact player. One thing he needs to work on is catching the basketball. Many times he is in position to grab a rebound or tip it to a teammate (or himself) and he just muffs it, especially when he is jumping in a crowd. Since he’s juxtaposed to Andy, who can score from ANYWHERE on the court these days (anyone check out his shot chart from last night?? incredible) and is a master at getting any loose ball, his deficiencies are highlighted. He does get a decent number of opportunities to finish around the hoop and many times he doesn’t convert because of his gather, and lack of creativity. Sometimes I think he’s just not skilled, but the optimist in me thinks he just needs more burn. Also, his FT shooting is better than it was in college and is slightly up from even last year. I’m concerned about the drop from 1.0 blocks per game to .4, but blocks aren’t as important as stops. In the past two games I’ve seen him get stops against hot-shooting PFs. I really want him to succeed, as does everyone here at CtB.
The book on TT in the draft was that he was as bad of an offensive player as you’d find in the first round. One name that doesn’t get brought up nearly as much as it should when it comes to TT: Bismack Biyambo. Biyambo sported a very similar skill set and similarly limited offensive game, but had a 5 inch better wing span, an inch taller height, and a 3 inch better standing reach. He’s a much better shot blocker, but TT is a better individual defender. Can 82games be right? Does TT hold opposing power forwards to a 9.6 PER? Where are you getting your RAPM numbers, Kevin? Could TT be a less offensively inclined Chuck Hayes?
Kevin, iirc, there’s data that shows that an average NBA player is a best-case scenario with late lottery picks. So that Hickson trade may at best prove to be a 2018 wash.
One thing I can’t wrap my head around with this team is the reliance on ball handling by the bigs from 17-23 ft away. The Cavs botch so many dribble handoffs. that should be the easiest play to make. Part of the problem is that our bigs pick up their dribble far too early in the process and part is that there is no true threat of a backdoor cut. I don’t think a single wing or guard not named Alonzo Gee has successfully used a backdoor opportunity to beat an overplaying defender. These kind of schematic issues drive me nuts. Especially when we have so much player-focused hand-wringing going on. Good coaches put players in positions to succeed. For all the TT stressing, it’s evident that he’s making his own plan on the court and it’s a flawed plan. Dion’s freelancing completely and his numbers show it. I’m really buying the idea that he could have a Harden-like impact in years 3 and 4 but only if someone really works with him to reign in his shot selection and helps him develop nba-finishing skills. He’s got the physical wherewithal but his tactics are lacking.
Cols, you think Grant’s done a fantastic job so far, which is fine. All I’m saying is the jury is still out. As much as you hate on JJ, you really don’t think him and Jonas would make the cavs better right now than TT and Casspi? Put the whole rumor of Jonas not wanting to come here aside and just answer that question. JJ has been playing below average but not terrible D, and both those guys are shooting 50%+ from the floor and scoring more points than Thompson and Casspi, both of whom have shown vast improvement just to get to the 45% range. Casspi is kind of apples to oranges here admittedly, but Jonas and J.J. are rebound on pace or better than TT, have pretty identical turnovers, more blocks, and much better free throws that Thompson too.
Right now in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter which two make the cavs better right now, it matters which two will be better when the cavs are good again. That said, right now it seems like a very realistic possibility that this one move was a mistake by grant, and he did something less than fantastic, is all I’m pointing out. I’m not calling for the man’s head, by any means, but to say the guy is a lock to go down as a great GM is premature by a long shot. And Dion has done nothing to prove that grant made a great decision taking him at #4, regardless of how you feel about tristan and kyrie, and regardless of how enamoured you are by his 37% Fg and 3pt shooting, and his 15 pts/gm on 15 shots/game. Yes, there are signs that Dion might pan out, but there are also some red flags there as well for any unbiased observer.
We have to keep in mind that it took Andy years to become the player he is today. Look at his stats from his first 4/5 years in the league and you’ll see that they are similar if not slightly worse to the numbers TT put up in his first season. Plus Andy was never the offensive player he has been this season in any of the previous years.
TT was taken as a project player. We all knew that. We should just be pumped he’s having the defensive impact he is and give him time to develop his offensive game.
Kj and Cols714, I deleted the impostor comments that appeared from you guys at the very beginning of the thread.
RichOH,
I’ll let Ryan Braun know that he’s getting requests in the comments section.
Nate Smith,
I get the RAPM data from http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com. If you’re into websites that are completely barebones and solely consist of player names and numbers…this is the site for you. As such, obviously I think it’s awesome.
Demetrius – i am with you. The Cavaliers don’t move the ball from side to side, they don’t get backdoor cuts, and have no post play (or other inside out play). The offense is predictable in the half court and so many possessions end with the ball in the hands of someone in a position they are not comfortable in. I imagine this is exasperated without Kyrie Irving, but it is bad right now. The schematic issues are troubling, and yeah, most of the fingers are being pointed at players. Honestly on paper this Cavs bench shouldn’t be this bad. Going into the season I don’t remember people predicting they’d have such an atrocious bench. That was a regular season observation that is now treated as obvious given the personnel.
@Tom – I haven’t got a chance to listen to the podcasts yet, waiting for a long day in the office and not onsite for that to happen. Anyways it was last week when I caught a Portland game and saw J.J playing for them and doing fairly well, that it came to mind. I pretty much agree with everything you are saying here. I wouldn’t have ripped you for bringing it up, it does make for interesting conversation. I also agree that most Clevelanders (cols714 being a good example here) were way too quick to cast him off as a rubbish player. I think Hickson has a good shot at being a decent player, hell he was only 22 when we got rid of him and he is 24 now. He did improve his numbers each year he played for us, and he was garbage for the half a season he played for the Kings but he played very well for the Blazers the last 15 games or so last season when he got a second chance.
I still support the trade because we basically got Omri Caspi and a potential end of the lottery pick and the Kings got nothing, they casted J.J. off. Cavs win. But when they released him, I kind of wanted the Cavs to go claim him off waivers. We lost Anderson and needed a big anyway, and all our bigs were garbage last year (Senih Erden?), so why not take a flyer on a familiar guy, a guy who was pretty torn up about being traded and really wanted to stay here. Hell, that has to count for something right? Not too many pro atheletes actually want to be in Cleveland. I don’t think we ever gave him a fair shake. And so what if he only pans out to be a decent player ala Drew Gooden. There is a reason Drew has stuck around for so long in this league. You need decent players (who are relatively cheap to sign and keep) to fill out your roster and make your bench better anyway. Do we have anyone on our bench that is doing what J.J. is doing right now? No. At least this season we would be watching someone play power forward who can finish at the rim. And I am not comparing TT to Hickson, or stating we shouldn’t have drafted TT at all, I would have liked to seen them play together, I think they could have complemented each others weaknesses. Since last season was going to be tank-o-palooza anyway, I would have liked to have seen the Cavs trade Jamison that off season instead of Hickson, but I suppose they would have if they could have found a taker.
@Bonus – I was always a little more optimistic about Hickson than I should have been. I openly stated back when the Amare Stoudemire trade talks were going on that Hickson would be better than Stoudemire in 3 years. Windhorst used to rave about his athleticism and he would show you instances of greatness, but he didn’t grow defensively and couldn’t seem to cut out the bad on offense. I wasn’t opposed to the trade since they had already drafted TT. There was a logjam at PF at that point and I had high hopes for Casspi. That’s interesting that you wanted to see TT and Hickson together and thought their skills would mesh. First time I’ve seen that take on it.
“Andysav – it’s really early in the season. I also noticed Tristan’s +/- being off the charts. I’m hoping it means something positive. +/- is such a noisy stat. Over the course of a season it can help inform opinion but over the course of 15 games it really doesn’t mean much. No one would look at Jeremy Pargo’s positive +/- and Kyrie Irving’s negative +/- and advocate that Pargo is the better player. I cannot use 15 games of +/- and off/def +/- to say that Thompson is superior to Varejao defensively. Thompson is working hard on D and in a few limited instances I’ve seen him body up a post player and win the battle. I hope it continues. But I wouldn’t use a 15 game +/- metric to say that Thompson is better defensively than Varejao, no matter how significant the differential might seem.”
Do you not see it on the court? Is it not obvious that Tristan is one of the better defenders on the team? The defensive stats are basically useless, just like someone posting above about Omri Casspi being one of the better defenders on the team based on his numbers. Yet I distinctly remember watching 79 year old Jerry Stackhouse going around him like he was standing in quicksand. TT, however, actually backs up the defensive statistics on the court when you watch the game. He especially shines when he gets switched on to smaller players.