Tonight we lost to Memphis in the waning minutes. Tom, Colin, and I all were a little ticked off, so we jumped on a podcast and recorded our thoughts. Basically…We discussed Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, the Cavs’ D, and the value of Anderson Varejao. Among a bunch of other things.
SoundCloud: http://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0017-a-dark-not-so-stormy
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843?mt=2
Enjoy!
Love the discussion. I would of loved to see Grant pick Kenneth Faried with the 2011 #4 pick but he wasn’t the only team that passed. He was picked 22 overall. Hopefully Andy can teach TT a few things before he’s gone.
In regards to any potential Andy V trade listen to these Grateful Dead lyrics:
Wait until that deal come round, don’t you let that deal go down,
Wait until that deal come round, don’t you let that deal go down,
Don’t you let that deal go down, don’t you let that deal go down.
Literally had to stop listening halfway through. Mallory, I disagree with nearly everything you said and I think you we’re wrong about at least 60% of the subjects you addressed. Everyone basically agreed with each other and there was no real insight given. To be brutally honest, it sounded a like a fan bitchfest. I’m sure I’ll get roasted for this comment but I just had to say it. I mean, Mallory, you literally asked why we couldn’t beat the top two teams in the league on the road!!! Do you understand how competely crazy that sounds? We’re the youngest team in the league missing our best player and you wonder why we lost in the last minute of each game? To quote McEnroe, you CANNOT be serious. You also said you would take Derrick Wiiliams over TT. Really? The Derrick Williams who is shooting 37% this year? TT has better FG%, scores one less point and avg 3 more rebounds than Williams. But other than that, Wiiliams is a monster! Sheesh…
Furthermore, since I don’t know if you guys are old enough to remember but Chandler was considered a bust for YEARS. So was a guy like Jermaine O’Neal. It’s ludicrous to form a judgement about young big men who have played less than 3 or 4 years in Association. Yet, it’s seems to be you blog guys’ favorite parlor game.
I applaud the team and Scott for busting their asses and playing so hard and tough against the league’s best especially with their best player out. They hustle and many of their sins are totally correctable with merely some more experience. Maybe you guys should consider following a team who is closer to a finished product. So far, you’ve shown little stomach for the rebuilding. And even less patience…
Oh and it ain’t just me. Here’s Jason Lloyd a bit ago on Twitter: “Watching this team compete vs Heat and Grizz last 2 games w/out Irving is fairly remarkable. #Cavs closer to relevance than record indicates”
In regards to Tristan, great article posted on Fear the Sword the other day about how he might be better than he looks:
http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/11/21/3676280/surprise-of-the-cavaliers-young-season-tristan-thompson-alonzo-gee
Agree with KJ regarding the Derrick Williams comparison… But it seems our best player may actually be AV at this point. He’s averaging 14 PTS and 14 RBS a game.
The losers mentality doesn’t matter when you have high character guys. Durant and OKC were terrrrrible for years and now where are they at?
Dudes, this podcast could be great with a different host. Mallory, no offense, tone it down and let Tom, Colin and Kevin deal. These are the only guys anybody wants to hear.
Never trade Andy!
These guys are doing a podcast about a 3-11 team. If I threw knives at my bum ass roommate from across the room I’d hit him at a better percentage than a .214. The blog is light years better than what the Plain Dealer has to offer. I actually had to type in “cleveland.com/cavs” today on my phone because its been so long since I’ve gone to the site for Cavs info. The podcast is fine. The bench is designed to cost them games. Period. That’s the plan. Stay on the bus or get off at the next stop. It’s not changing this season. If Irving was healthy they’d probably still be 3-11. Give CTB a break. Outside of crazy hypotheticals about rebuilding philosophy and forecasting the 2013 draft there really isn’t much more they could cover. I’d honestly like for them to do a weekly podcast so I could listen to it while I’m stuck in traffic hell.
I agree w/brandon…Mallory sounds like a Valley Girl at a slumber party…. that and the fact that he cuts people off mid sentence only to stutter for 4 seconds, before saying something meaningless…. Makes it hard to keep listening…. Nice work the rest of you!
KJ the Derreck Williams thing was (mostly) facetious. He’s still a high ceiling guy with a game that would compliment our team nicely. But, like you said, he’s not exactly a star. I think we gave TT credit for what he did tonight, but the guy did get blocked on a key shot down the stretch.
In addition, we’ve now seen this Cavs team totally collapse in the last 5 minutes of three straight games. If you don’t think that’s a fact worth questioning than I’m not sure what you’d have us talk about. And it’s not as though the Magic are a top team…
Finally, guys, the podcasts are free. Enjoy them or don’t, but remember that.
Mallory, the main issue that I have with the TT bashing is that, like Tom was slowly coming around to, maybe TT wasn’t meant to be that completely dominant player we wanted. He’s already showed that he could possibly become an elite defender at that position, and that has a lot of value. I agree that because of his offensive limitations and complete lack of improvement on that end there is a level of disappointment. However, if TT can become a dominant defender at the 4 then I think that we can go home happy. Especially if he continues to just stand there and dunk things on offense and doesn’t try to do too much.
Going forward though, if TT is not the dominant offensive player we want, tanking this season and drafting big in the upcoming draft is essential.
Corey
You are right, however Fear the Sword and other Cavs blogs have all been a lot more positive than this one which is really getting hard to read and listen to. The team is playing pretty good basketball, yet losing. The smart patient fan looks at this and sees progress, especially with the starters and especially with such a young team.
Cavs The Blog looks at this at whines like crazy. Still on my reading list though.
KJ – I love how you are incredulous with our tone, and then your coup de grace is to point out that Tristan Thompson is averaging ONE more point than Derrick Williams. Which is, of course, meaningless since TT is averaging more minutes per game. DW has improved his PER from year 1, and is more productive offensively. TT “seems” more productive defensively, but again, this is based on the noisy +/- type stuff that someone needs to investigate further. I would gather many NBA GMs if they had to do it over again would take DW over TT (not saying it’s a slam dunk either way but your arguments is weak – know that at least.)
I think people are hearing what they want to hear in our podcasts. No one has “given up” on Tristan Thompson. I don’t recall a single person ever advocating the Cavs trade him ala JJ Hickson (who the Cavs actually gave up on before the 3-4 year timeframe than big men apparently need to prove themselves according to KJ) It’s disconcerting that the draft pick that took the one of the worst seasons in NBA history to net might have a CEILING of Emeka Okafor. He’s a disappointing lottery pick. It’s not the end of the world. It’s not Kwame Brown territory. Okafor has had a decent career with a couple above average seasons. But if the best TT can be is Okafor (Tyson Chandler is an above the rim 7 footer – not a fair comparison) then yeah, color me disappointed. You didn’t hear any “coming around” in this podcast. What you heard was all of us lowering our expectations and trying to find silver lining in this seasons +/- stats and one half of a defensive effort against a great offensive player (Randolph). And honestly, that was being generous. TT posted the worst +/- of any player in last night’s game and Randolph posted the highest. And yes, they were matched up against each other. And Mallory was on record in the podcast saying that the Cavs offense was good all night until the end. That was generous. They scored 78 points. You guys can all be thrilled that the Cavs have won 3 games (1 of which was against a bad D-league team). They’ve won 1 impressive game in my mind (Clippers) and that took an unconscious shoot display from the backcourt. I don’t see how blowing 3 straight games in the 4th quarter is cause to be excited.
I just don’t know exactly what you writers want from this current Cavs squad.
I sort of expected them to be pretty decent – The bench was worse than expected, but the starter’s 5-man units have been pretty solid (with everybody healthy.) They’re not good right now, but this blog is sort of running around with their hair on fire right now, isn’t it?
13 games does not a good sample size make. I understand there’s not much to talk about other than the fact that we’re not winning right now, and that, yeah, you’ll need to talk about that. But it’s important to look at each game with context. Three close losses in a row is not a horribly disconcerting trend – The Cavs are missing their best player, and they’re not that incredible yet WITH their best player. It would make sense that if the fulcrum of the entire offense is missing, the team would have a drop off.
I like looking at things with a critical eye – I can’t stand homerism, and I like good, balanced, and smart critiques in my sportswriting. However, C:TB is swinging too far over to the other side – To cynicism, and emotional critiques. Memphis is one of the best teams in the league. Our best off the bounce scoring option (a rookie) was being guarded by a top 5 perimeter defender in the league in the past two games (LBJ/Tony Allen) late in games. That’s a lot to ask.
Carter – did you listen to the podcast? We said that the offense got stagnant late because of Kyrie Irving missing, and we mentioned how great Tony Allen was on defense. I’m pretty sure I concluded by saying this loss didn’t bother me too much. We spent half the podcast raving about how awesome anderson varejao is and mentioned how Casspi and Cj Miles were coming around. Colin also spent some time praising Jeremy Pargo – and we all agreed.
Seriously, what are people listening to? It’s disappointing when you want your team to win and they blow 3 games in the 4th quarter. And I contend this podcast was mostly positive!!
Carter
You got it exactly.
Mallory
Don’t whine that the podcasts are free. Take the criticism and do something good with it. We all appreciate CTB or we wouldn’t be here.
I was speaking to the general tone of the blog as of late, Tom. Sorry, should have made that clear. I’m working, and thus can’t listen to the podcast.
Fun stuff there, guys. I was amazed at TT’s numbers. Two things i think are happening: 1, Tristan Thompson has developed into a decent individual defender. The numbers back that up. 2, he’s still learning to play with the extra weight. I think he needs to lose 5 pounds and get a little bounce back. 3, Tyler Zeller has not been nearly as good as he looks. He doesn’t defend very well yet, and it’s hard to win games with him getting extended minutes. Also, his shooting needs to get better. He’s only shooting 41%, (36% in the last 5 games), and an horribly bad 48% from the line. He needs to put some time in on it. It might be time to let Samardo get some minutes and Zeller to work on his jumper. 4, Casspi is playing well, and his defense is really being underrated. 103.9 PP100, and 112 with him off. 5, Daniel Gibson’s defense is really overrated, a net 12.9 PP100 better with him off the court. To get better at winning games, the Cavs need to start going offense/defense at the end of games. Their best offensive lineup is probably Waiters, Pargo , Gee, Zeller, Andy. They can go small and plug in Casspi at the 3 and Gee at the 4, or put Gibson out there. But their best defensive lineup would clearly be Pargo, Gee, Casspi, TT, and Andy. There’s no other permutations of maximizing defense that would be better. Is Scott keeping Waiters out there to teach him? IMO, nothing motivates better than a meritocracy. (and yes, I know that was more than 2 things).
Why does everyone want to put an “e” in Cory? The world doesn’t ned unecesary leters. It’s a huge waste of ink and eventualy we’l run out. My own dilema.
I dig what you’re saying Cols. A lot of people took Tony Grossi that way when he was covering the Browns for the Plain Dealer. That he was too much of a pessimist. It’s a grind following a losing team, let alone devoting a lot of your time writing about one. Some people are bottle of Fernet half-full people and see things in a positive light and others are bottle of Fernet half-empty people who have terrifying wormwood induced Jack Torrance Shinning-esque hallucinations.
I’m still really positive about this team personally. I believe in Gilbert and Grant and that’s more than I can say about any of the other Cleveland sports teams. I’m not stressed at all about the presentI but I do have a lot of fears of what they might become I don’t fear that they have a culture of losing-At all. This team hasn’t given up, they haven’t learned how to win yet. It’s a part of the growth process and they are the youngest team in the league It will happen as they mature. Kyrie’s defense will get better because it can’t get worse. If he wants to be great, he’ll start playing defense. Lebron didn’t buy into defense until year three at the earliest. I’m glad Grant is taking the three years in the lottery. They may have had four first round picks in the past two years, but as we’ve covered on this forum multiple times we still don’t know what we have with out four youngsters. I’d like two more first rounders next year and fortunately it looks like we’re getting them and one should be high (in the draft not on drugs but both are obvious possibilities). I’m not scared that they’ll turn into the Kings at all. Dan Gilbert gets shit on by hack sports journalist constantly, but he doesn’t get credit for not being the Maloofs. I’m kind of scared the Cavs could turn into the Warriors of the past couple seasons and be too dependent on their backcourt. They need a SF or post player who can be a star. Not just solid but a star. There’s also the fear that if they just land a few above average players around Kyrie that they could become the Atlanta Hawks of the past five seasons. That’s a very realistic possibility.
My biggest fear is that they are too dependent on Kyrie. Only one team in the last 22 years has won an NBA title with an All-Star point guard in the same year (2007 ironically). I keep telling myself that it’s because of the triangle offense and not that point guards are actually very overvalued and that it’s the deepest position in the league by a mile. We’re pretty PG dependent. That scares me. Every one of those championship teams had dominant wing or post player with the exception of the Pistons fluke title and next years draft doesn’t appear to have an uber franchise player and 2014 looks like it will be the best since 2003.
Carter – give it a listen. I don’t in any way think CtB is being overly pessimistic. Nate VIDEO DOCUMENTED Kyrie Irving’s defensive struggles. In the accompanying podcast, we all paid lip service to it and I said that it looks like an effort thing and it will get better. Then I compared him to Rondo and Rose who didn’t play any defense their first 2 years. Is that overly depressing? To point something out and then all agree it will get better? (with zero evidence it IS getting better?) John Hollinger called KI the worst defensive player in the league. He’s an objective analyst. This isn’t homerism or the sky is falling cynicism. With Thompson, it’s a tough pill for some of us to swallow that he’s not improving at the offensive end. here is the Cavs beat writer: https://twitter.com/BobCavsinsider/status/272736012931850240 He’d “much rather” have JV and he LIKES TT and wants to give him the “benefit of the doubt”. This is EXACTLY what we all said on the podcast last night. We like the guy, we like his effort and personality. We WANT him to succeed. We all said he’s a high character guy. We mentioned that he might be contributing defensively and who knows could be the 3rd best defensive player after varejao and Gee right now. Then we spent 15 minutes making excuses for why Byron Scott might be OK and it might be too early to cast judgement even though none of us have seen any player discernibly improve under his watch. Is that overly pessimistic? Literally the entire podcast was either: Anderson Varejao – HALL OF FAMER!!!111 Dion Waiters! SICK HANDLE!!!111 (And now FINISHING!) Jeremy Pargo might be good!!! And a bit of “man this loss is a bummer, if only we had a guy that could score in half court isos…” and “It’s too early to cast judgement on Chris Grant and Byron Scott” – and trying to find the good in what TT did last night. (Again, worst +/- in the game and ZRandolph had the best). Kinda seems like we are LOOKING for reasons to be positive. I think you guys are just in denial about the progress and we are being realistic and somehow that doesn’t jive with your “we’d be an 8 seed if only our starters could player 48 minutes and not get hurt and not ever play good teams and not play back to backs and wear only alternative uniforms” mentality. Debating the “model” and personnel alignment and rotations and Anderson Varejao’s value seem pretty pertinent. Instead of coming along for the ride a few of you just want to sling mud and then others are coming in here agreeing without even listening to what we actually said.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the internet!
I will say that people need to adjust their expectations and enjoy watching a team be built from scratch (which Chris Grant has done a nice job of doing it the right way, and quicker than a lot of teams).
We’ve added four guys in the last two years that we expect to be a solid part of our core. If one or two of them are having an off night, the other two usually have performances to get excited about. Some nights all cylinders will be firing and it’s really really exciting. Try to enjoy tiny improvements from individual players on a night to night basis, and team chemistry forming. And if we’re lucky we’ll get to see the moment when something just clicks, and they make it to that next level. Yay positivity!
I’m sorry, I tried to make it clear I was not speaking in regards to the podcast, but what was being said in written form (especially the comments section.)
I don’t think I’m slinging mud, I’m just expressing a concern. I didn’t think we’d make the playoffs this year. I thought we’d be a below average team, and that’s about what we will be over the course of an 82 game season.
Go through and look at yours and Mallory’s comments in the past two posts especially. I think you’re coming from the right place, I think you’re just being a little too harsh, maybe in an attempt to counter what you feel to be unrealistic optimism (Which is, to be fair, present among a few of the commenters.)
I appreciate that you folks are willing to talk with the commenters, it’s a good thing. I understand that you guys are defending yourself – You guys work hard for no pay (as far as I’m aware,) and it’s frustrating to be critiqued. I’m an aspiring broadcaster/journalist myself – It sucks to get criticized, especially if you don’t think it’s fair. I suppose I’m just trying to let you know that I understand, and I’m not trying to be the guy shouting at you angrily like I deserve to have you write what I want you to write.
I just want to be the guy to voice his opinion, and try to do it fairly.
There’s some great positive energy on PBSkids.com, check it out. Boundless enthusiasm, and to be honest, I think big bird is more effective around the hoop than Tristan.
Well that’s not exactly fair, Big Bird’s jump hook is killer
We can argue all day over Big Bird vs TT. But one thing is CERTAIN – Oscar is a FAR better defender than Kyrie.
It’s all about the demeanor, really.
I wish a guy on the Cavs looked like a muppet. Chris Carter has a muppet face. It’s the eye brows. Perhaps Harangody…
Hollinger’s rankings are up – which are based on margin of victory and strength of schedule. As soom commentors have suggested, this team is better than the record inidicates. If the steady defensive improvement is real, then I think the team will end up as many predicted – just inside the lottery, just outside of the playoffs, especially once Kyrie returns.
These rankings have a pretty good track record or predicting a team’s actual ability. Wins and Losses can be somewhat arbitrary, but margin correlates fairly well to future success.
In a way, the ideal scenario is to see these kind of indicators this year (ie, signs that we are competing better) without the actual Wins. On the other hand, I am firmly anti-tanking this year. An eight seed would be amazing. Best case scenario. And not even worried about finishing ninth. At this point, “the plan” extends beyond ping pong.
W C
So Hollinger’s analysis backs up the comments here that have said this Cavs team is doing OK and CTB was going overboard on the negativity?
Funny.
Tom, not one single GM would take Williams over TT. That is beyond ludicrous. Williams has no position. Period. And as even Hollinger admits, PER is not the end-all of stats. You conveniently ignore Williams beyond awful shooting and meh rebounding. Seriously, who would take Williams over TT? I mean, I can’t believe someone who watches basketball would make such a statement. If you think I was incredulous before, holy moley! Haha! It is also hilarious how you claim plus/minus is “noisy” THEN turn around and use last night’s game’s plus/minus to try and prove something! Priceless! INDVIDUAL GAMES PLUS/MINUS MEANS NEXT TO NOTHING.
Furthermore, you are the King of declarative statements based on nothing. How in the name of Sam Bowie do you know TT’s ceiling is Okafor? And you don’t think losing in The last minute of the game to the two best teams in the league “is cause to be excited,” eh? Well, no statement could better sum up the current state of this blog better than that uniformed-sounding, black & white view of these past two games. Again, maybe you would be happier covering the Nets or something…
Cols – you are funny. If Hollinger’s ratings had the Cavs 28th you’d find a way to dismiss them as being based on too small of a sample size. I’m glad that YOU have established that John Hollinger’s analysis is worthy analysis. Maybe you can use Hollinger’s words or metrics to back up your “Tyler Zeller looks solid” claim. Let’s see if I can help. Here’s what he said about Zeller pre-draft: “The Rater is a particularly harsh judge at the center position, where it frowns on the prospects of four centers with first-round aspirations — Tyler Zeller, Meyers Leonard, Fab Melo and Festus Ezeli” Here’s what he said in his Team Profiles: “It’s nice to have a 7-footer who shoots 81 percent from the line, and Zeller will likely be efficient enough to have a solid career as a backup 5. Whether he can be anything more than that is an open question. He’s old for a rookie, turning 23 in January, and he didn’t have any real standout numbers in college other than his shooting efficiency. That’s the reason he fell in the draft — other centers like Meyers Leonard and Andre Drummond weren’t as good in college but offered a lot more upside. The benefit for Cleveland is that Zeller can play immediately as a backup 5, and his ability to run should mesh well with their preferred playing style.” Here’s how his PER Ranks Zeller among Rookies: He’s 25th out of 27 qualified rookies in PER, 25th out of 27th in Estimated Wins Added, and is 26th out of 27 in True Shooting %. So is it too pessimistic to say that a guy drafted to be a “now” pick does NOT in fact “look solid” right now? Or am I being just a grumpy (yet Clever!) pessimist?
I think that personal attacks are very unnecessary. Ad Hominem is and always has been the least effective form of argument. As for the blog’s negativity, I haven’t really seen it like everyone else apparently has. In general, the mood is joyous when we win, and less so when we lose. Seems fair to me.
KJ – so wait, you counter my “your argument sucks” with a “no, YOUR argument sucks”. For the record, I wouldn’t draft TT or Derrick Williams 4th if I had to do it over. If I had the choice between the two, I probably would draft TT. And it’s not based in any way on actual production – I think TT COULD become a great defensive player.
I don’t know TT’s ceiling, but right now, Okafor seems OPTIMISTIC based on TT’s early returns.
Nice try throwing the +/- back in my face. I IGNORED the +/- when I made my subjective statement that I thought he did a great job on Zach Randolph in a few situations. And I’m the one that brought TT’s impressive +/- to light in the last 2 podcasts. You’re reaching if you think I don’t understand how little +/- means in small sample sizes. I’m aware and I advocate for that awareness. Last year TT’s SEASON long +/- was poor. So far this year, it is very strong. I’m wondering aloud how meaningful that is – LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO BE POSITIVE ABOUT.
No one knows what TT’s ceiling is with 100% certainty. Would you feel better if I surrounded my declarative statements with confidence distributions? I am 99% certain that TT will not become hakeem olajuwon on offense. But yeah, not 100% certain. Maybe I can use HTML brackets before and after every statement just so I don’t give you the wrong impression that I am actually a prophet. I’m glad based on your tone and use of exclamation points that TT “HOLEY MOLEY” is a max player and Derrick Williams should be in Europe, and are lambasting me because I think that argument has no basis in reality.
You know what does have a basis in reality? Okafor comparisons. Both undersized for their position, both with very limited offensive games, and Okafor has made a career out of protecting the basket. TT has the work ethic and the athleticism that I think he could be that. A very good maybe elite defensive player and a garbage man on offense. If that is so LUDICROUS to you, then let me know I’ll stop wasting my time responding since we are clearly watching something different.
You do realize with each successive post you’ve agreed with me more and moved the goalposts from your original comments on the podcast, yeah? Ok, cool…
Btw, you’re basically right about Zeller and if you (care to) remember i was one of the few during the draft and after preaching caution about people getting too high on Zeller. HOWEVER, your failure to mention his injury and how he was playing prior to it is disingenuous.
I have no problem at all with Zeller. He was a mid first round pick. If those guys contribute, and Zeller looks like he is going to, then that’s great.
Btw, Andy is under-sized and offensively challenged too and yet is now an all-star level player. That’s why I object so strenuously to you passing judgement on TT and making claims on his ceiling. We’ve seen with our own damn eyes that a big guy takes lots of time to improve and can improve MASSIVELY over the course of a career. Furthermore, TT does share Andy’s effort and motor, to a decent degree. It is not insane to think TT could elevate his game to Andy-like status by his late 20′s.
Also, how much older was Okafor than TT when drafted? That has to be a factor in comparing the two.
Sorry for the multiple posts. Wish there were some edit button to combine them…
I’ve recalibratedbmy expectations for TT. There is nothing to make me believe he will ever be competent offensively. I hope I’m wrong. I’ve used Ben Wallace and now Okafor as best case scenarios. The first would be good the second a bit of a disappointment. There is no way questioning DW vs TT is insane at this point as you advocate so strongly. Zeller won’t continue to shoot 40% from the FT line but he hasn’t done anything that we should be excited or optimistic based on what he’s actually done. If this blog seems to pessimistic its because you want to ignore whatyyou are watching and continue projecting best case scenarios for everything and conveniently ignoring bad signals. If my counter arguments to provide balance make you think I find nothing to get excited about listen to the podcasts. I’ve basically ignored every bad thing waiters has done and focus only on his tools.
KJ – would you prefer I wait until TT is 30 to guess what he’s going to look like at 25? For the love of God
No one is ignoring bad signals. What people have seen is that the Cavs team, especially the starters, has played pretty well this season. Waiters, Irving, and Andy have been pretty great while Thompson hasn’t been awesome he’s been OK for young big man with only 1 year of college and 1 year of NBA.
I don’t understand the Williams vs Thompson debate. Wasn’t Williams drafted before Thompson?
Andy is not undersized to play PF. He has a 7 foot wingspan. He could always finish even early in his career. He has added somewgat of a mid range game which nobody would have guessed. Its true some players develop skills later. For big menits usually defense and rrebounding not touch, ft shooting and a mid range game. How about this. If TT can develop a mid range game I would have to drastically reevaluate his “ceiling”. Likewise if Andre Drummond starts shooting 4 3s a game at 48% I think he could be a hall of famer. If Greg Oden lived in the future and had futuristic prosthetic knees I think he could be a decent NBA center.
Cols, define “pretty well” because a 3-10 record coupled with disappointing PERs doesn’t exactly scream optimism. Sure, we;ve seen signs of decent play from Waiters, Zeller, and TT, but we’ve also seen Waiters jack up shots, lapse on D, etc. What, from that, suggests we’re surely going to be a better team next season?
I’m not asking this because I necessarily think we’re going to be bad next year, i’m asking because your eternal optimism doesn’t seem based in anything. The one decent win we have came on a day when Waiters shot out of this world – given enough chances even I could have one game where I drain a bunch of shots. It was an anomaly.
Mallory
What did you expect from the team this year?
I expected a competitive team that would be in almost every game. That’s exactly what we have. A good young basketball team. It’s a good progressions. Worst team in the league to getting Kyrie, to getting Waiters and being pretty decent when the starters are playing, to hopefully competing for the playoffs next year.
Do you even watch the games? I ask this seriously because it seems to me that you turn on sportscenter and see they lost and then go into depression because Chris Grant has not yet turned around the team after 2 years.
And yes, I know that Waiters and Irving suck on defense. They are young, they will get better. They don’t suck on defense because they are slow or unathletic. They suck because they don’t care much and have only been in the league a short time. It will improve.
Once again to sum it all up
KJ, me and most of the commenters are saying that we think the Cavs are going in the right direction. That Irving, Waiters, Andy, and to a lesser extent Thompson all seem like they are pretty good with Irving and Andy looking fantastic.
CTB, thinks that Chris Grant screwed the pooch by drafting Thompson and that he put together the worst bench of all time (he might just have done this) and therefore the Cavs are not going to get better and we are screwed because of it and maybe a Cleveland team will be forced to move from Cleveland and OMG my uncle cries at night and doesn’t watch the Cavs anymore and the Indians suck!!!1111111
How can I argue with someone who thinks Andy plays power forward when he plays center? You willfully ignore and purposefully misunderstand my points. I even threw you a bone that I basically agree with you about Zeller. Ok, I get it. Moving on…
Mallory, I posted what Lloyd, who is a Cavs beat writer, said about this team. I’ve posted what Amico, a Cavs beat writer said about this team. Cols posted that Hollinger ranks the Cavs 8th and yet you presume to act that the onus is on Cols to prove the Cavs aren’t horrible. Again, perfectly sums up this blog lately…
Btw, anyone trying to rip Dion, who has UNEQUIVOCALLY exceeded expectations (so far, to be sure), is either a fool or a troll. Or both.