Tonight we lost to Memphis in the waning minutes. Tom, Colin, and I all were a little ticked off, so we jumped on a podcast and recorded our thoughts. Basically…We discussed Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, the Cavs’ D, and the value of Anderson Varejao. Among a bunch of other things.
SoundCloud: http://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0017-a-dark-not-so-stormy
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843?mt=2
Enjoy!
KJ is right. There is a reason I’ve frequented this blog less and less since Krolik stopped running the show. The pessimism has been far to much and expectations far to high. As has been asked, you guys at CTB expected what exactly? If this is in fact to be like the OKC model, do you not realize OKC was absolutely horrible in this same year (2009) of their rebuild. Started the season like 3-29. So, again, what exactly were the writers of this blog expecting, and why did they expect that? Moreover, as opposed to being disappointed with the players or management that this team hasn’t met your expectations, maybe you should instead come to the realization that your expectations were poorly formed.
Kj he plays center this year because the Cavs don’t have one. Get a grip. He was the backup “big” during the LeBron years and it was common knowledge that he didn’t have the girth to play against true centers as much as harass stretch 4s. He can play C and the more time he gets the more effective he is. I’d argue Varejao has always had tools that I’ve yet to see from TT. And he’s a lot bigger – longer. Let’s put it his way. The minute TT does ONE THING in an actual NBA game that makes me think he can hold his own and not be a total liability on offense – and this can be in either up tempo fast breaky stuff or half court – I will be overjoyed and probably start dreaming big like I did with Hickson, Pavlovic, Leon Powe, Etc etc. I haven’t seen one thing in a season and a half. Not once. Find me a YouTube clip of a passable go to offensive move. Right now his dunks are getting sent back and he’s as athletic as he’s going to be.
Rich I’m sure you loved Kroliks tweet the other night about TT vs Jonas then. If you listened to the podcast – which most of you didn’t – we were positive about positive developments and pretty forgiving about everything else. I concluded by saying we are all looking at different things in this transition year. I’m looking mostly at player development not wins.
Can’t we all just get along? With a legitimate bench this team would be above .500 right now, the team wasn’t put together to be in that position. We are looking to compete next season for a playoff seed. This was the plan. I know it hurts to accept this but its the truth. Say we competed this year and nabbed a 7 or 8 seed, do you really think we’d be able to make the jump the next season to a top contender? So TT is not Dennis Rodman (fun fact- he was 6-7 and didn’t start 40+ games til he was 28), the kid is 21 give him time. The Williams discussion is irrelevant, the dude wasn’t on the board at #4 so lets go ahead and kill that. TT was drafted for his potential, as in potential to develop which believe it or not actually requires time. If we had drafted Kawhi or Faried in 2011 w/the 4th pick I’m guessing at least one of the wirter’s tvs would’ve gone out the window in disgust and horror. What I’m getting at is the sooner you accept what is going on this season the sooner you can begin to enjoy the smaller things like watching our starters coming together as a unit, the development of Kyrie, Dion, TT, and Zeller, Andy playing out of his goddamn mind, and even finding a real backup pg in JP (which nobody saw coming). I enjoy the blog, sure sometimes you guys can be overly pessimistic but I’ve seen you go the other way just as often. Just like sometimes KJ can put forth some great points and other times he can be a dick. It comes with being a fan and covering sports.
Peter
Well said. I guess most of the commenters here are pretty happy with the team so far this year. It’s time for the writers to get on board.
Anyone want to follow up on us raving about Pargo? Or does that not fit the narrative a few of you have established…
Why shouldn’t you be raving about Pargo?
Tom,
I think you guys have done a pretty solid job on the podcasts, maybe one of you could get Mallory drunk on Samuel Smith’s Chocolate Stout to cheer him up a bit before you guys record. That’s all we’re asking.
Yes, there is absolutely no Derrick Williams vs Tristan Thompson discussion. The only reason those names intersected in the podcast is the question was more of less “is there anyone you would have RATHER had out of that draft class than Kyrie and TT”. The answer from Colin was sort of “it’s a moot point because while I’d rather have Kawaii Leonard, no one was going to pick him that early and he might not be the player he is if not for SA.” Mallory answered it more from the perspective of “yes, there are guys that right now I would rather have from that class than TT” – which made KJ lose his mind because he can’t imagine how freaking ridiculous it is that someone could think that Derrick Williams is even COMPARABLE to Tristans mind-blowing 13 PER and inability to make anything that isn’t an uncontested dunk. That’s why it was brought up in these comments. Not a single person anywhere is upset that the Cavs didn’t draft Derrick Williams – that would have meant not drafting Kyrie Irving.
You know what would be really big of all of us? To not respond to a comment without understanding it’s origin. If you come in here, ignore the podcast, and just read Cols and KJ freaking out – you’d think we all are devastated with this Cavs team and think there is no future. If you ignore the huge “don’t trade Andy Varejao he’s awesome and can stay awesome for a while” post,- which is VERY optimistic, or the “10 things to love about” posts by Kevin, and ignore all the raving we did about varejao, Waiters, Pargo, and the organization at large in last night’s podcast – then yeah, you’d think we’re all a bunch of pessimists. What you fail to realize, is that we are just getting down in the weeds with people like Cols that say things like “Tyler Zeller looks solid” and “stop talking about Dion Waiters shot selection” and “don’t worry about Kyrie’s D”. So yeah, a lot of what we are saying in COMMENTS is “um, yeah maybe we SHOULD be concerned about it. Maybe some of these things aren’t improving and we need them to improve at some point if we are going to be competitive.” Guys are coming in, admittedly in the middle of a mini comment sparring session, and making judgments about the original content that doesn’t exist. And the problem with this is it causes the writers/bloggers/content creators to “stop feeding the trolls” and just post and be done with it. I think it’s a much more fun environment to have everyone sharing ideas and arguing and debating -which is why you should WANT all of us responding. So while we might have different ideas – don’t come strolling in here assuming you understand our intent because we are trying to counterbalance wild comments with some reality. Our mission statement isn’t to throw a cold blanket on positive signals. And if you listen to the podcast, there is NO WAY you could come to that conclusion unless you are selectively listening and getting caught up on a few things you don’t agree with. HELL, NONE OF US AGREE WITH EACH OTHER!
Cols – it’s a unexpectedly positive development. No one thought Pargo would be so productive. He essentially was the difference maker in our lone recent win. He looks competant and suddenly, a huge void looks like for the time being it might be filled. All 3 of us were in total agreement with that on the podcast. You’d look less like a troll if you’d acknowledge that much of what we said was actually VERY positive last night instead of trying to unite our own readers against us. You’re better than that. (right?)
Tom
I don’t think so, you guys are really negative during the podcast. It’s pretty ridiculous. Especially with Mallory squealing about powerful and bouncy.
It’s not just the perception you know.
And yes, Mallory I know the podcasts are free and therefore beyond criticism.
Tom
Have you listened to the podcast? It’s pretty negative. Especially with Mallory squealing about powerful and bouncy.
Tom
One more thing, maybe instead of blaming your readers and commenters, you should give the podcast another listen and realize that the reason people think it’s overtly negative, is because it is.
Peter – thanks? Mallory is the reason the podcasts exist. He’s the reason we do them, he’s the guy that puts in the hours to mix them, he’s the guy that keeps them focused and somewhat succinct, he’s the guy that schedules them, he’s the guy that comes up with the questions, he’s the guy that gets nationally renown writers to show up and give us an hour of his thoughts. If he wants me to buy him some beer, I most certainly will – we all owe him as much. It’s discouraging to see a total lack of constructive criticism and just a bunch of a whiny punks coming in here attacking the tone of the podcast as being too pessimistic or whatever – when in fact it was mostly positive. All of us were coming from different places in the podcast. THAT MAKES IT FUN. If you want groupthink there’s plenty of outlets were all the writers say/think/write the same things. You get some awesome diversity of thought and skill on this blog. The podcasts are a huge part of that and in my opinion they are improving with every new edition. Constructive criticism from the masses would make them THAT MUCH BETTER. So if that was your attempt – try again. We all love the Cavs and want the podcasts to be something great going forward.
I definitely enjoy this Cavaliers blog more than any other for two reasons: 1) The collection knowledge about the Cavs (and basketball in general) is better than anywhere else I’ve seen. 2) The posters are passionate about the Cavs.
As far as the current status of the Cavs, I feel positive. Don’t get me wrong, losing stinks. I would have loved to seen the Cavs pull these games out. However, before the start of each game, did anyone think these would be close contests, especially with Kyrie out?
If the Cavs can make these close games now, what will it be like with Kyrie back? With Dion and Tyler Zeller improved as the year goes on? Or next season when Gilbert and Grant spend in free agency? I believe they will, but that’s another subject. There are numerous reasons for optimism, IMO.
Also, has anyone notice that the bench has played better as of late? They really haven’t been getting blown out by the opponents bench lately? In fact, I think the increased the lead from the end of the 1st to 6:00 into the 2nd quarter last night.
For those who are pessimistic: You can argue that the Cavs out together a bad bench this offseason. However, I’m not sure you can claim “tanking” from that. Not spending in FA, and tanking are not synonymous. At least not always. Remember when the Cavs spend big in free agency for Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, and Damon Jones? They were trying to put a team around LeBron. None of those moves worked out, and it handcuffed the teams flexibility. None of us want that again, now that we have another superstar (potentially) in Kyrie. I’d rather see that Cavs be patient with the cap space and get players they feel good about, instead of spending now just to get wins. That’s what the Nets did. Instead of waiting another season to possibly land D. Howard, they acquired a bunch of lesser free agents and (most likely) locked themselves into a second round exit for the next three years.
Anyways, that’s my take. No offense to anyone, if I did offend you. Peace, and thanks to the writers and posters of this blog for making it enjoyable.
Cols – yeah I did. It was right after the 3rd straight 4th quarter blown lead. I didn’t notice any of the Cavs players, of media personnel rejoicing in the loss. If you simply want us all to say “who cares that we didn’t win, we were competitive” then I’m sorry we didn’t say that? (not really) All of us understand the schedule has been tough and the team is young. None of had crazy expectations for the season. It’s just NICE TO WIN. When you lose in semi heartbreaking fashion – sometimes you try to explain it. The podcast starts off “why did we blow this game?” We try to answer it. Generally – “we didn’t have Kyrie Irving, Tony Allen is nuts, not sure about the playcalling down the stretch, the offense isn’t good in general, and the Cavs have some players that bring one side of the ball to to the table and take one side off right now”. That’s REALITY. Then we get into how awesome varejao is, we all went nuts over Gee’s putback dunk, we talked about Pargo looking really good -and with the exception of some critique of TT, we pretty much glossed over Byron Scott, Chris Grant, etc etc.
It was a podcast. When the Cavs win a game, I guarantee you we aren’t going to obsess over that one stop that TT didn’t make or that one rotation that seemed puzzling. We are going to answer the question “what did we do to win this game”. Kinda makes sense right?
Tom,
Haha I think you misunderstood me. Overall I think the podcast was balanced on both ends and that you guys all made good points. I wasn’t trying to shit on Mallory or anything, you could just tell he was totally bummed by the loss and it carried over, but I mean hell a 9 pt 4th quarter will do that to a guy. I was merely saying that after a game like that you need a couple beers to find the silver linings.
Cols – I’m going to blame you for everything until you answer the question “in what way does Tyler Zeller LOOK SOLID” where Tyler Zeller = The basketball player on the Cavaliers, “looks” = what we’ve seen on the court as it relates to basketball value, and “solid” means = positive value. Once you can convince anyone with an IQ higher than Zeller’s FT% how you came to that conclusion other than just not watching him and assuming he’ll be good because he runs the floor and could shoot in college then I will stop thinking you are being the unreasonable one.
Peter – well said, thanks. I’m looking forward to more Cavs bball. There is a lot to be excited about and the tough losses are going to turn into exciting wins soon.
I think I have realistic expectations for the Cavs this year. Still, it’s a bit deflating when they continually lose close games in which they were leading, you know, because I like them and I want them to win. If I didn’t have any emotional reaction to the games, I wouldn’t bother watching. That doesn’t mean I think it’s the end of the world though.
I haven’t listened to the podcast, so I won’t comment on whether or not it’s pessimistic. But I don’t begrudge the writers of this blog being disappointed with losses.
Tom
I do not have to answer any question you put on me. I watch the games. Zeller looks OK to me. But then so does Irving, Waiters, Andy, and to a lesser amount, Thompson.
When I watch the Cavs, I see a young upcoming team that is going to continually improve. When Mallory watches the games, he wants to see powerful and bouncy.
Tom, Andy has played C for 2 seasons. That is a fact.
The rest of the crap and yeah, it is mainly crap at this point, is trying to claim the podcast was not overly negative when it was. You dig deeper and deeper ignoring or purposely avoiding salient points brought up by multiple posters. In other words, you have a siege mentality. If you do not want honest criticism and disagreement (and it has been honest) then quite frankly, quit posting or podcasting. I don’t know what else needs to be said…
Oh and you say no “media” were “rejoicing”when we lost and maybe not but funnily enough I posted what a Cavs media member Tweeted and it was in COMPLETE opposition to what you guys in the podcast said. Again, you ignoring evidence that contradicts your statement…Amico also could be sited as well. So that’s two media members. Just sayin…
Ok cols. I’m glad you are a Cavs fan and feeling good about the progress. Let’s both lay off the personal criticisms.
KJ – I’m glad you are here. Disagree with things all day long. Add to the pool of discussion. Be prepared for “feedback” when you make ridiculous comments. If you truly have constructive criticism about the format or content of the podcasts let em rip. So far you’ve got an ax to grind and its fine if you disagree but don’t pretend like lots of people reacted to this podcast constructively or in good faith. The internet is forever we can all reread comments
KJ – is there anything about Thompson specifically that u have noticed that excites you? Something we’re missing that is a good talking point?
TOM, TOM, TOM.
It’s “Kj,” not “KJ.” Common mistake.
A very vocal minority are, I think, the cause of this argument. I don’t want or need any kind of faux positivity, I think the podcast is great and fits in a long tradition of American sports talk radio that is overly invested in the team in rather a charming way. I don’t know if Cols or KJ have been here since the beginning, but even when Krolik was around (especially?) the blog was extremely introspective and at times melancholy. I always appreciated that honest vibe, rather than cheerleading for the sake of cheerleading. There are a ton of cavs blogs out there, an excellent daily newspaper, and none of them charge anything for it. Be grateful.
Shhhh! The games on!
Right! Go CAVS. Hoping for a nice battle between Varejao and Gortat tonight. Also hopefully Dragic doesn’t get away with all the flopping this time.
I’m gonna live blog positive things about TT tonight. I’ll start here – the NBA JAM windmill he does in the intro Video is sick.
Well he’s 0-3 on bunnies (one uncontested) but he is VERY active. As the games goes on those will start dropping
Well Thompson had another dunk blocked. But his activity kept the ball alive in the first place.
Zeller certainly “looks solid”
Btw Dion is playing hard on D and he just earned a 50/50 whistle. ABOUT TIME
well TT just airballed a floater. but he might have been fouled. hes being agressive on offense.
TT just threw a face up drive to the rim of the side of the back iron. But he’s being assertive and deliberate – he’s working hard.
TT has been infinitely better that Zeller defensively!
TRISTAN WITH THE THROW DOWN!
TT has gotten his hand on 4 missed shots – unfortunately 3 of them he wasn’t able to secure or tip to teammates. But the last one went out of bounds off Phoenix. So he earned the cavs a possession back!
Andy V is putting on a clinic! 14 points in the 3rd alone, 20 points and 15 boards total so.
If he’s not an All-Star, I’m burning down the league offices. He plays like. a. MAN.
Varejao is an all-star – I’m with you jonesy. TT right there with a nice high flying rebound and just now drew a foul on a dunk attempt. And he made both free throws. great form!
My hatred for CJ Miles is growing by the day. Just HATE the way he plays the game. Me-first player who is a bad shooter to boot. Awful combination.
The Cavs lost to a bad team at home by 20 (don’t care about garbage time) and Anderson Varejao scored 20 points on mostly mid-range jumpers. That is alarming. Oh well – everything’s fine! Tyler Zeller makes TT look like Dwight Howard defensively. Makes Varejao look like Bill Russell.
In case there was any confusion, Jeremy Pargo is a bad man. And I mean that in a very literal sense; he’s bad at basketball.
91 comments?!?!?! That has to be a CTB record.