Windhorst has the report, initially from the Washington Post. Apparently it’s a three-team deal. The Cavs are getting Jamison, the Wizards get Z’s expiring contract and a first-rounder from the Cavs. The Clippers are the third team involved, and will be sending Sebastian Telfair over to the Cavs as a part of the deal.
Much more analysis on this deal is coming. Obviously, Jamison is somewhat of a consolation prize compared to Stoudemire in the eyes of some. Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry are close. I assume that if Ferry gave up, the Suns had made it fairly clear that they weren’t going to deal. Waiting on some information regarding that, however. The Cavs didn’t give up Hickson, and if they do get Z back they gave up almost nothing of significant value. In both front-office and basketball terms, this was a lower-risk move for the Cavs, albeit one with a lower ceiling.
This move puts a ton of additional pressure on this postseason. The Cavs got the upgrade they were looking for without touching any of their major assets. Now all they have to do is win.
I’m totally fine with this so long as they dont do what the celtics did, win a championship (no, that bits fine, they can do that) and then try and repeat it a year later, and a year after that, with a core of pensioners who only get older. If shaq and jamison bring it home, awesome, but they have to spend next summer bringing in a team that will win it year after year, getting stronger and stronger.
Hey John, can’t quite remember, but haven’t you always been a fan of Bassy (or am I thinking of someone else)?
On a related note, a friend of mine just informed me we now have, quite possibly, the two most hyped highschool prospects ever… pretty amazing, actually.
Cavs at PF/C position:
(going by current mpg averages)
Shaq: 23 minutes
Z: 21 minutes
Hickson: 19 minutes
Jamison: 39 minutes
Powe (08-09): 18 minutes
Varejao: 30 minutes
Jawad: 13 minutes
Total: 163 minutes
Available at PF/C: 95 minutes
% minute reduction (if each player loses the same amount): 42%
This leaves the following numbers:
Shaq: 13 minutes
Z:12 minutes
Hickson: 11 minutes
Jamison: 23 minutes
Powe: 10 minutes
Varejao: 17 minutes
Jawad: 10 minutes
Oh yeah…whats the Cavs best line up? Small ball with James at the 4? Forget about that…
Meh, kind of a let down, but we kept Hickson. Assuming we get Z back in a month, who gets his minutes until then? Varejao?
How good is Telfair? Is he good enough to take Boobie’s minutes (slim as they may be)? I don’t really like that we added another very short guard, but if he’s not going to play then it doesn’t matter.
its a wrap, lebron and the cavs r bringing it home.cavs win it in 6 against l.a.
i like this we should win it all have a good vacation z see u in 30 days . this makes more sinse than the amare deal u dont change the team i wonder if they do anything else
Love this deal. The Cavs get a class act who can provide what they need, a scorer from both outside and inside who can rebound. Lebron should feel that the cavs are trying to win and this helps in keeping him in Cleveland, which is for the best for the NBA.
Great job Danny Ferry. Wish the Spurs could pull something like this off.
i think we better watch out for denver i think they can beat the lakers in 7 we better watch miami if they get amare
another trade for the 2
I think there is a HUGE part that people arent keying on in this trade…
Jamison has an expiring contract next year, boom, Ferry pulls off another epic trade next year after we win the title this year.
bring the title home cavs please!!!!!!!!!!!
no he has 2 years left after this year
i think they make another trade for a 2 guard
If anybody had hopes to get LeBron multiple titles so he could compete well historically, they pretty much just got shot in the face. Let’s enjoy the aroma of 35 year old Jamison on the Cavs in a couple of years.
Congrats to Cavs fans from a Laker fan. I really like Jamison as a player and even though he is old, he should fit in perfectly and puts the Cavs in the perfect position to win it this year. Honestly, I didn’t like your team last year (even during their most dominant streches) and I thought my Lakers would def beat them. Now this year..I’m more worried (not yet panicking like some Laker fans) and now with this trade… (along with Kobe’s wear and tear of two straight trip to the finals and the olympics). I still like our chances but regardless it is gonna be TOUGH to repeat
Also..people that whine about Jamison age: you basically got Jamison AND Talfair for nothing, since Z is coming back anyway.C’MON…
@BradleyH:
My thoughts exactly…
I tried to tell myself not to get too upset if they didnt get Amare because they were definitely getting Jamison in that case, but…..
I just can’t help it.
Amare would have been the missing piece. Jamison is very good, and he may very well help us to a title this year. But Amare would have kept us as the top team for the next 5 years minimum.
Exactly Colin. Jamison doesn’t deliver the Cavs the title this year (neither did Pau in his 1st year as a Laker and Pau is approx. 100 times better than Jamison). And if they don’t win this year, guess who’s killing their cap room and will be 34 and 35 years old? That’s right, Jamison. But it’s okay, everybody, Jamison is a nice guy. He wears a Santa hat when he vists sick kids during Christmas so no need to worry.
@Nathan,
Ever consider putting Jamison at the 3 and Lebron at the 4? Small ball is all about matchups. This basically just means that the cavs gained another potential matchup advantage. Would you rather be running Jamario and Lebron in the small ball lineup, or lebron and Jamison?
@BradleyH
You win titles with veterans who want to win. I’ve watched Amare in Phoenix since he was a rookie, and his eye is always on the paycheck and glory. I’ll take a couple solid years of Jamison over Amare’s post pay-day attitude any day of the week. And I’m still confident in JJ.
Furthermore, I’d rather have a couple years of Jamison where I pretty much know what I’ll be getting, than give up a young big guy with loads of potential for a chance to sign a guy who’s had too recurring career-threatening injuries over the past 3 years to a six year max money contract.
@ spencer, I know there are big questions about Amar’e, but how is Jamison on his way to being 34 and 35 not a concern as well? They could have not done anything. And what’s the point of having J.J. around if he’s going to sit behind Jamison?
also, let’s not forget that the final year of jamison’s contract is probably gonna be locked out anyway.
This is a great deal for the cleveland cavaliers. Puts them over the top. Already beat the lakers twice without this guy. Didnt even have Mo one of the times. Cavs all the day this year. Watch out Nba!!!!
Love this deal- anytime you can add another Tar Heel to your team you gotta do it. I was never sold on Amare- too much baggage and likely only a 5 month rental. Go Cavs!
sorry, for the rest of you out there who remember the last lockout. that joke was in poor taste. lockouts are sad.
@bradley,
having Jamison around is important because JJ is not ready for the role we’d need him to play in a finals run. he’s also important because he’s versatile. as far as guys playing at 34 and 35, it’s less of a concern than it was 10 years ago. jamison has been relatively durable and he doesn’t play an overly athletic brand of basketball. he’s playing with Lebron now, so he’s a role player, albeit a potentially very good one. the cavs rolling the dice on amare’s knees and eye with a 6 year deal would have been an even bigger risk than this, which is actually no risk at all.
This is a good trade and I think better than people realize. For one ,in three years when Jamison starts to decline, JJ will have grown into a strong true starting PF, allowing Cleveland to be a dynastay. (However, Cleveand will need to pick up another big man to take Shaq’s place in two years.)
**I don’t think Danny Ferry is done trading yet. I think he really wants Corey M as his startiong SG.
I don’t know why Cavs fans are happy about this. Amar’e will get traded to the Heat, who will have enough cap space to possibly sign LeBron. Where do you think he goes? He’s been talking about wanting to play with the best. Do you think he’ll want to play with Mo, Andy, and the old guys Z and Jamison? Or do you think he’ll want to play with Wade, Amar’e, and Beasley? Seems like a no brainer to me. Hope you enjoy seeing a Cavs led by Mo, JJ, and Jamison next season.
And you know what else occurred to me? The Wizards may decide to screw with the Cavs and not buyout Z. They would have the final say in the rivalry with that. The Wizards are easily the worst trade partner for the Cavs in that aspect.
@george
are you high? how do the heat have the money to sign wade, amare and lebron?
I’m not sure why people are hating on this deal. We got Jamison for the 30th pick in the NBA draft (worthless). We are already the best team in the NBA, and now we just got significantly better. Would amar’e have been nice? Sure. But like the above said, he is lazy on defense and really is only about the money. With Jamison we get someone who has been playing on a terrible team going through a ton of controversy and still putting up good numbers, now playing with double team magnets Lebron and Shaq? Game over.
@ George: If Miami gets Stoudemire, the Heat don’t have the room for LeBron–you can’t have 3 max contracts.
Colin and (especially) Bradley: I’m not seeing the reason for negativity here. Or, on the flip side, you’re both ignoring the very large possible downside to acquiring Amare: he and Shaq don’t mesh, chemistry suffers, Cavs get bounced early (again), both he and LBJ walk.
Age: sure Jamison is older but Amare doesn’t exactly have a “young body” despite his younger age.
Contract: yes, Jamison makes a lot, but the Cavs would have to pay Amare max dollars to keep him beyond this year (even then, there’s no guarantee he doesn’t bolt for someplace like Miami). I’d rather have Jamison’s expiring contract in two years than Amare under contract for ridiculous cash for 4~5 years.
Chemistry: Z and JJ wasn’t enough to get Amare … who else would we have had to give up? Moon? Delonte? Boobie? Why tear apart the team with the best record in the NBA on a gamble? We got Jamison for literally NOTHING.
I’m with Windy: “Snap reaction: This was Cavs dream back in Nov. & they did not have to give up Hickson.” If people want to be moan and whine when the Cavs get a 20 & 10 power forward for nothing, fine. Personally, I’m pretty giddy. Cleveland fans should be used to being on the OTHER side of salary dumps. Me, I’m enjoying the hell out of being on this side of this type of deal. Can’t wait to see Antawn suit up for the Cavs.
Bradley, Tsunami borught up a great point a couple days ago that I think bears repeating.
Gilbert is willing to spend. Going over the cap is nothing for him.
If we look at the way the salaries shake out now, we’ll have $48 million or so committed in salaries, plus a hypothetical $15 million for Lebron, a few million for Z, and then extra salary for either Shaq or a Shaq sign-and-trade. That extra room at the top then gives us the flexibility to use our big contracts remaining (in this case, Jamison) to flip for younger talent that’s locked down longterm.
Remember, we’ve gotten to this point starting from Larry Hughes and Drew Freaking Gooden. (And Donyell Marshall.)
For the record, i too am giddy over this. Having Jamison around to school JJ in the next couple of years is also a big plus. I do have a question though. I remember Shaq saying he has 3 more years left in the tank after this year. Does anyone think Shaq might stick around and make the vets minimum or less money in general to get a couple more rings? Noone seems to talk about Shaq staying, but i for one believe that he is the biggest difference maker this year. And i absolutely LOVE him talking smack on Howard and getting in his head. Thoughts?
@ everybody. I just have a problem calling a guy 20-10 when that’s very misleading. First off, he’s not ’10′ he’s 8. His rebounding his worse than Andy, Z, Shaq and Celtic Powe and right on par with J.J. In short, he’s a below average rebounding PF. So is Amar’e, though.
He averages 20 a night, but look at how many shots he takes. His TS% is 52%. He shoots 34% from 3. If you guys want to say that he has the pressure of being the offensive option on a bad team, that’s fine, but production is pretty consistent across time. You guys think he can knock down 3′s, but he only shoots 34%, why would 34% excite me? If his efficiency goes up from playing with LeBron, then I’ll be happy, but I’m telling you guys, just because he averages 20 points a night doesn’t mean much. This is an exaggeration but Monta Ellis averages 26 a night and the Warriors are worse off when he has the ball. Scoring is overrated. Scoring efficiency is what it’s all about. 52% is below average and I just don’t see it improving that much with the Cavs. I think it’s worth noting that in the Wizards hayday, Jamison was the 3rd best player on a 46 win team that got bounced in the 1st round.
I’m glad we didn’t give up anything, but I’m concerned about a 33 year old inefficient scorer. I don’t think this deal puts them over the Lakers and if they don’t win this year, Jamison is just going to get older and older. Sorry I don’t like this deal, guys.
Don’t forget Leon Powe will be coming out soon. That gives us outside shooting similar to what beat us last year in the playoffs.
Jamison is a good player who will help, but there are still some questions here. A lot of Hickson’s trade value came from the fact that he was a starter on a team with the best record in the league. With Jamson in the fold, he loses that starting spot and his already “less than brilliant” statistics take a hit. This lowers Hickson’s trade potential in the coming 12 months.
Jamison is 33 years old. He’s not a guy that is gonna run with LeBron (if he stays in Cleveland) for the next decade.
Also, where in the heck do these minutes go? If they resign Illgauskas, that is SIX big men all vying for minutes from 2 different spots. (Shaq, Hickson, Varejao, Jamison, Powe, Illgauskas) That is 96 minutes a night. I don’t see O’Neal, Jamison, and Varejao getting any less than 75 minutes a night. That is 21 left to scrap for among Hickson, Powe, and Illgauskas. If that is the case, as I mentioned before, Hickson’s minutes and numbers are lost. I know it’s a little down the line with Powe not being healthy and Z gone, for now. But it’s something that will have to be dealt with come playoff time.
I was really intrigued by the potential of getting Maggette. It would have forced either him or LeBron to play significant minutes at the 2, where both of them would have been a matchup nightmare. They both already get to the line enough as it is… getting an undersized 2-guard for a matchup would have been fun to watch.
Bradley – you are only seeing 1 side of this.
First of all, you are hung up on age. Jamison has seen his production stay steady the last 6 seasons. Amar’e saw a HUGE drop off 2 years ago. Even then many considered him very overrated.
Jamison can play 3 positions, Amar’e can only play 1 really (Don’t try to tell me he can guard centers he can’t guard a traffic cone)
Jamison can guard Rashard Lewis and Lamar Odom, Amare can’t.
There was no guarantee Amare would have resigned here. in fact, my guess is he would not have. So much for your “shot in teh face” talk.
Terry Pluto hit the nail on the head. Amare wants a max deal. Everything else is secondary to him. He was not going to be willing to come and do what was best for the team and sacrifice stats. Jamison only wants a title.
I wouldn’t be surprised if JJ Hickson is a better player than Amar’e stoudemire in 2 years. I’m dead serious. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Jamison is a better player than Stoudemire in 2 years. The guy is quickly losing his athleticism. And he’s never played any defense or rebounded well.
We dont have the minutes, guys! Jamison is 20-8 guy when he’s playing 40 minutes! That leaves 56 for our 6 other rotation big men!
Also, in case you haven’t noticed. the Cavs CORE is LeBron, Varejao, and Mo Williams. In 2 years that core will still be young and you can add Hickson, Gibson, and Danny Green. That is NOT A BAD TEAM. Who knows what will happen with Leon Powe. If he can fully recover from his injury (big if) he was THE BEST backup PF in the NBA and he’s only Lebron’s age.
I don’t believe Stoudemire is nearly as good as people say. He is a great fantasy player and a great scorer. In case you haven’t noticed the Cavs aren’t having any trouble scoring lately. And Jamison is a damn good scorer too. More creative than Amare.
The biggest thing for me is that Jamison is a good teammate and DOESN’T TURN THE BALL OVER! That is huge. He will get more open shots playing with LeBron and Shaq. And with his length, ability to stay healthy, and decent shooting touch he will still be good in 2 years.
Tsunami, let’s say I forget about Amar’e
All of those stats I posted about Jamison are pretty underwhelming. You can’t trade for a guy and expect him to all of the sudden shoot 40% from 3 and 50% from the field. And to grab 10-11 boards. Forget about Amar’e, I don’t like Jamison as a player. If people can call Amar’e overrated, why can’t I say Jamison is overrated and be taken seriously? I know he’s a nice guy, and a team first guy, but nothing indicates that he’s very efficient. Remember Larry was our 2nd or 3rd leading scorer even though he was one of our worst players, because his shooting actually had a negative impact on the team. Jamison isn’t quite Larry Hughes, but I just think people look at Jamison’s scoring totals and he’s a nice guy and think his a steal.
Ok, quickly on Jamison then on to Telfair.
POSITIVES of the trade:
1. We gave up nothing. There is no way you can tell me this team isn’t better this year.
2. It’s a stretch 4, the thing we’ve wanted for so long.
3. Jamison is a class act and really will not mess up our chemistry (Amare COULD have, who knows).
4. This goes back to giving up nothing. Hickson is a guy who we can clearly see has real potential. Eventually, teams have to develop some of their young talent. The Lakers made a lot of big trades, but even they hung onto Bynum even through his injuries. It is paying off for them now and I think Hickson is really going to pay off for us later (you have to develop young talent when you see it has real potential and they are on the books for cheap).
5. Jamison, while older, is here next year. you might not like that, but it is more than we could say for Amare, who has stated he really wanted to be in Miami. And extension was not guaranteed.
6. This is the most important imo. We all see what Jamison has done in Washington over the years. We all have seen what Amare has done in Phoenix. Now, think about the talent around them. Amare was playing with Steve Nash, a man who can make anyone look good (just look at Channing Frye and Jared Dudley this year). Jamison, has never, at any point, played with another who can make him look good. Arenas is the best player he has ever had, and Arenas is hardly a guy who is looking for his teammates. I fully believed Amare’s numbers to drop with te Cavs (slower pace, no Steve Nash) and I fully expect Jamison’s numbers to go up with the Cavs (never has he played with someone like LeBron). I really really think this is something fans are missing.
Ok, Telfair. I don’t know about the guy nor do I really care. What I do think is possible is that the Cavs move him tommorow afternoon. Will be really interesting to see.
Bradley: I think you have legitimate concerns, but this whole alarmist business about the Cavs sucking, LBJ leaving, and the entire city of Cleveland becoming a sea of fire and pestilence (slight exaggeration) is just silly. As of about two hours ago, the Cavs were planning on going into the playoffs with a power forward who has ridiculous athleticism, but can’t defend, can’t hold onto the ball, and has yet to prove he can score consistently from 5+ feet from the hoop. I’d like Jamison to be a few years younger and his percentages to be a few points higher, but he’s a remarkably consistent performer with at least 2~3 years left in his tank (if not more). You’re right, raw stats aren’t everything (although if we’re going to be really accurate, he’s not 20 & 8 either …. he’s 21 & 9 this year … but that’s missing the point) … but this is the first time since Loozer left that the Cavs have a PF who is a legitimate scoring threat. That alone will open up things for the other 4 guys on the floor. I expect Jamison’s numbers to dip with the Cavs (I’d guess 15 & 7) but his percentages to go up.
Dr. B: I’ve wondered the same about Shaq. He’s been a stud, and as long as Dwight Howard’s in the league, the Cavs will need some kryptonite (or the *real* Superman, depending on which side you take in this “feud”). If the money’s right, I’d like to see him back for another year or two.
Bradley – Larry Hughes has not had a PER above 14 in 5 season. Antawn Jamison has not had a PER below 17.5 in 5 seasons.
It’s fine if you think he’s overrated. Wouldn’t you rather get an overrated guy dedicated to doing whatever it takes to win a title, who, by the way, will be a HUGE trade asset in 2 seasons as opposed to a guy that is overrated, me-first, a turnover machine, who comes with no guarantee that he will stay beyond this season, and (MOST IMPORTANTLY) you didn’t have to give up your best young player to get him?!
As others have mentioned, there are getting to be too many players and too few minutes … but I wonder if Ferry will try to do anything with Wallyz’ contract tomorrow?
Tsunami & Rich: well said.
It’s pointless to speculate on what his raw numbers will actually be.
But what we do know, is that Jamison is an incredibly creative scorer that is not limited to style or position. Can’t say the same thing about Amare. I know his percentages are average at best, but one of our greatest assets is our flexibility – and he ADDS TO THAT. Amare would have required lots of things being different. And he WOULD NOT HAVE been OK with his numbers/touches being limited. Jamison could CARE LESS.
@BradleyH
I really don’t understand your negativity over this deal. I think keeping a level of objectivity is good in everything, and I think cavs fans have a tendency to overhype players and trades (a la larry hughes), but this is far and away one of the best moves ferry has ever made. It’s like finding a new pair of Jordan’s in the sale section for 2 dollars – there’s not really much to hate. Even if those Jordan’s only last you one month, they only cost you 2 bucks so it’s meaningless to complain.
If by some rare possibility the 30th pick of this years draft turns into the next MJ, then I will concede, But otherwise….. GO FERRY!!!
@bradley,
jamison isn’t a shooting guard. he’s not here to shoot 40% from three. he’s here to be a versatile scorer that can stretch the floor. honestly, Z doesn’t shoot as well as Jamison anymore, but he still commands attention when he steps out.
look at all the stretch 4′s in the league. how many actually shoot much better than 45% overall and better than 35% from three.
Rashard – 43-40
Odom – 44-29
Murphy – 48-39 (career high fg%)
Rasheed – 47-33 (career avg)
Looks fine to me. A couple more open looks come his way, and he can probably improve some.
BradleyH is acting like the kid who didn’t get the leather Spalding basketball he asked for Christmas and instead got a leather Nike one. Get over it man. Age is just a number. Ask Steve Nash. People were saying that Shaq would be useless in Cleveland because he’s old. He’s still commanding respect in the paint. Jamison won’t have to shoulder the scoring load like he had to in Washington. Less pressure, less minutes, fresher come game-time, more effective. Throwing out numbers is fun and everything, but before you go bashing the move, let a month pass before we decide to cry about the trade. Before Amaré’s name was attached to the Cavs, Jamison was looked upon as THE player who would help Cleveland win the title this year. Now he’s not good enough? Too much nitpicking.
Telfair would be the odd man out in pretty much any situation now. Would not be surprised to see the Cavs buy him out, as he’s the 14th man on this team.
I don’t think we’re asking Jamison to be a 20-10 (or 20-8) guy here. He’ll gladly reduce his role for the purpose of a championship.
Let’s say we have Shaq, Z, Andy, Antawn, JJ, and Powe. That’s six bigs. Let’s say they’re vying for an even 100 minutes. (One of the smaller guys, like AP or Jawario, might fill in for most of the 8-10 minutes per game Lebron sits, but a couple of those minutes may be taken by the bigs. In addition, if Lebron scoots to the point every so often for matchup issues, we’ll have more time for the bigs.)
My guess is that Powe doesn’t take any more than 6-8 minutes a night, leaving 92-94 for the other five guys. Let’s say we reduce JJ to 14 (from 19), and Andy stays at about 28-30. This leaves 50 minutes for the remaining three.
Perhaps on nights when Shaq is needed for a big matchup (Howard/Gasol), he plays big minutes at the expense of Z, Jamison, or JJ (most likely). On the nights when he’s only needed for 16-20 minutes, this leaves 30-34 minutes to split between Jamison and Z, who’s already down to 20 this year. If we give them both roughly 16, that might be all we need Jamison for, DEPENDING on how MB sees fit to use him.
We have a lot of serviceable parts, and while that may not be a good thing according to CW, it’s better to have too much than too little.