That was awesome. Sure, without John Wall and Nene, at home, the Cavs should beat the Wizards nine out of ten times, but I am glad NBA basketball is back…and that was awesome.
Cleveland lead most of the way and was up 13 with one minute remaining in the third quarter. A Sloan, Gibson, Miles, Walton, Zeller line-up allowed that to quickly erode, until Cleveland actually trailed by two midway through the final quarter. The starters checked back in, and the good-guys embarked on a 20 to 8 run to cruise to victory.
Mallory was supposed to cover this game, but a hurricane sabotaged his civilized existence, so I will cover this with some quick bullets.
Kyrie Irving!!! That was fun!! His 29 points paced the Cavs on the way to a +23 for himself. He canned threes, reached the lane at will, found open cutters for six assists…Kyrie Irving!!! I’m glad he’s around.
Anderson Varejao!!! Almost completing a triple-double, posting 9 points, 23 rebounds and 9 assists. And no typo; that is 23 rebounds. Twelve of those were on the offensive glass, as Andy repeatedly solved complex in-air ball-flight geometry equations to outwit and out-hustle the outclassed Wizard bigs. He repeatedly found cutters with a flair only found in soccer-bred players. The idea of trading Andy should be reserved for people that don’t like watching basketball.
Tristan notches a double-double with 12 points and 10 rebounds. The last two minutes featured a dunk parade, as Kyrie and Andy set TT up with three gimme slams. Tristan also tallied 5 assists. I won’t even check; that has to be a career high.
Dion Waiters scored 17 on 14 shots. He picked Bradley Beal’s pocket twice and headed the other direction for dunks. Those were obviously nice highlights, considering their respective draft positions. Also, check out his shot chart. Basically every shot at the rim or from three. He penetrated with relative ease, and despite the zero assists, several Cavalier free throws are attributable to Dion drive-and-dishes. Nice game from the rookie.
Gibson hit two of four from deep; exactly what is asked of him.
CJ Miles and Gee were disasters, as they combined for 6 points and 6 turnovers. Neither was able to create a decent look at the basket and both ventured into ill-advised drives. Gee missed a couple of open threes, and occasionally looked out of place on defense. Ultimately, inconsistent is the type of player these guys are. Especially Miles. Next game will probably be better.
Then the game after that will be worse.
A few thoughts on the rotation; Donald Sloan looked fine in the first half, getting into the lane and hitting a floater, and also having an and-one negated due to a phantom offensive foul. The second half was worse than that. He finished with 4 points on 5 shots with 1 assist and 2 turnovers in 13 minutes. I am going to repeat this until it happens. Dion Waiters needs to play “point guard” with the second string, next to Boobie. Sloan should function primarily as the twelfth man, break-glass-in-case-of-emergency option. Next, no Omri Casspi tonight. Not sure what the story is there, but in my mind, the thirteen minutes that went to Sloan, belong to Omri. I would even like to see an opportunity for Omri to play with Kyrie, with a Dion, Gibson, Gee back-court facing off against the opposition second-unit. Finally, no Leuer or Samardo, but instead a healthy dose of Luke Walton. Walton was not wearing his huge knee braces and actually looked solid in the first half, knocking down a deep J and threading a backdoor-bullet, but everything looked sloppy in the second frame. His minus-11, along with Sloan’s minus-13, rounded out the on-court bottom for the evening. Combinations of Zeller, Leuer, Walton, Samardo need minimized, with whichever of those two is in the rotation, always paired with Varejao or Thompson.
Well, that’s it for tonight. Nice start to the season, but not every game will feature a lottery team missing their two best players.
Their core of Irving, Andy, Waiters and Thompson were phenomenal. The second unit is probably the worst in the league…Bobcats included. One more season of 50+ loses (and lotto magic) and this team will make the leap next season. It should be an exciting year to watch them percolate.
Already the lottery talk? That disgusts me. What a loser mentality. Let them play the damn game. Yes they beat the Wizards, but they’re supposed to beat the Wizards. In order to be a good team, u gotta beat the teams you’re supposed to beat. Let the team play the game first. Stop the freakin lottery talk. Losers do that.
CJ miles can’t be that bad regularly. If he plays better and you get Walton out of there, the 2nd unit is more respectable. I have never been a fan of Gee. Would rather see Casspi get minutes.
Waiters looked impressive. I actually think he is naturally a better passer than Irving. Great vision when he penetrates. He will still have off nights, but you can see the vision Scott has with he and Irving just breaking people down left and right,
TT was solid. Love the new physique. Much stronger. Evidence of his work ethic.
I was watching this game for a few things: how is waiters going to approach (not necessarily execute) NBA competition and how are the Cavs going to initiate offense when Irving sits.
The good news: wow, I LOVED what I saw from Waiters. Played like he belonged. Attacked, didn’t hesitate, made some aggressive plays, and looked for his shot but had a good shot selection. Even if that jumper is a little off-balance and he takes time to learn defense – he looks like he’s gonna be a force. He REALLY did remind me of rookie D Wade, and I say that with the utmost hatred of comparing unknowns to Hall of Famers.
The bad news: well, first, the Cavs don’t play defense. I think the Wizards missed about 30 wide open 3s. It almost looked like they didn’t even care about defense, and they knew they’d beat this scrub team (a lottery team without it’s top 3 players? whoa) so they just took the night off at the defensive end. I’m really hoping that’s what happened and they aren’t actually this bad all season. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I thought “wow, that was great defense that possession”. As for what I was looking for, I don’t know how many different ways I can repeat this: Boobie Gibson is not a playmaker, he is a shooter. He’s one of the best 3 point bombers in the last decade and that’s how he adds value. When you ask him to initiate offense from the perimeter it is either ineffective or disastrous. Yet, every season he trots out there and at some point I’m watching him try to set up offense and it never ends well. I get that the Cavs don’t have a backup PG, but there’s gotta be more creativity here. Play him with Kyrie or Waiters. He THRIVES off the drive and kick, even when defenders close our hard. He is valuable, but as we saw in the 4th quarter, if you give him the ball and expect him to breakdown a defense, the offense stalls, and turnovers abound.
Andy is flat out insane. 21 rebounds in 3 quarters. He’s the reason they won. As far as I’m concerned I wouldn’t trade him for anything other than a lottery pick PLUS assets. And I know there are 0 gms that would do that. So, keep him. Let him retire here and go up in the rafters.
On comment on Defense: Waiters is not perfect, but the dude has an intensity to his man-to-man D that is promising. He is already better man-to-man than Kyrie. His D was a nice surprise.
I loved Beal pre-draft, but I don’t think I saw him attack or create once. He was just shooting J’s. Odd, given that his team needs a creator with Wall out.
Kevin, please retire or at least use very sparingly the +/- metric, eh? Cuz Gee had a +14 tonight ad anyone who watched him tonight knows he was pretty damn horrible…
I sooooooo want to tell people to kiss mine, yours and Dion azz after his performance tonight but I will -nay- MUST resist…
3 steals for Waiters tonight. Great to see that translate to the pro game…
@ Hot Sauce Am I the only one who never fully understood why Bradley Beal was so highly regarded? And I never got the comparisons to Ray Allen either. All I hear is “Oh, his shot looks just like Ray Allen’s” Well I can make my jump shot look like Ray Allen’s too but that doesn’t mean it’s going to go in. The only thing I liked about Beal was that he was a pretty good rebounder for a little guy. Fun fact: Dion Waiters actually shot better from the 3 in college (35% to 33%). Also when people say, oh it was just an off year. Well wouldn’t a more reasonable explanation be that he just wasn’t as good at the next level? It makes me question whether this was something a clever agent told someone, who told others and just having the name Ray Allen next to his name was what helped his stock (Kind of like the Wade comparisons did for Waiters just not as fast.) Fun fact #2: Ray Allen shot 40.2, 44.5 and 46.6 in his three seasons in college at UConn. End of mini rant.
I for one want to suggest a like and dislike button for the comments(like Yahoo does, or even BSPN with the like buttons). That way we can like comments rather than just posting that we either agree or not without going into further detail, if we choose not to.
Who is with me?
Kj,
Plus/minus is definitely a “noisy” stat; relatively useless is small samples. I will probably keep using it though, when it tells the story I want it to (Kyrie was great, second-unit was bad). I will leave it out when it appears “noisy” (like Gee +14).
If I had said, ‘hey guys, Gee was better than what you saw…look at the +/-!!”, then that would be stupid and you can freely roast me for it.
Losers mentality…I am a Cleveland sports fan. I’m used to being patient for the future. Following the Cavs growth this season will be much more enjoyable than the Browns or the Indians. They are going to struggle…REALLY. Durant lost 59 games his second year. I don’t expect that Cavs to lose that many. It’s part of the plan.
I don’t think hoping for a season of growth from our core young players but ends with enough losses to once again make the lottery is a loser’s mentality. It’s a smart, realist’s mentality. Winning enough games this season to gain the No. 7 or No. 8 seed and lose in the playoffs’ first round does this franchise much less good than a season in which the young players develop but a lottery pick is gained with which they may gain another young, talented core player. An early appearance in the playoffs would have robbed the Thunder of one of their key young assets during their building process. Mediocrity, which is what a seventh or eight seed is, is not the goal. Championship contention is. Adding another key piece may achieve that. Losing to the Heat in the first round won’t.
Don’t want Waiters running a second unit anytime soon. It would take away from his first unit play and, with one only game down, no one else looked capable of stepping up. Maybe if Miles starts to show something…
Agree with basically everything Kevin said. A few things:
Dion played 28 minutes tonight. He needs to be around 35 minutes so he can be our backup PG. Kevin and I have said this basically everyday since Dion has been drafted. The guy is an absolute creator. Not only did his penetration lead to a few foul shots, he had a bunch of hockey assists. Sloan, is NOT an NBA rotation player, or in my opinion, an NBA player at all. How we could possible trot out a lineup that featured Sloan, Boobie, Miles, Luke, and Zeller, is beyond me. What was Byron thinking? I just don’t get it. (sidenote: Dion will be a GREAT defender. His instincts on that end are really good, and he seems to enjoy it. He wanted to DESTROY Beal. Love the mentality.)
REALLY surprised to see Luke as our 4th Big tonight. I guess Byron wants somebody who can pass at that position with the offense functioning how he wants it. (ie, 14 assists from our starting bigs). But smart as he may be, he just can’t play big enough on the defensive end and he is too slow as a wing. Not sure he should ever play. I hope Leuer is getting the offense into his brain and can take that over quickly. Zeller looked pretty awful as well. He has generally had good hands in college, but was having real trouble squeezing the ball last night. Looked uncomfortable in general. I suppose it was a good move to start Andy and TT after all.
I don’t like Gee. I was one of the few who didn’t really want to resign him. He took the 3rd most shots yesterday. Many of those were not catch and shoots, cuts, or one dribble drives. He was attempting to create shots for himself with miserable results. I don’t care if he wants to play up to his contract or entertain himself or whatever. He shouldn’t try to create EVER unless there is 2 seconds on the shotclock. I did like his on-ball pressure. It seems we are just going to try to hide Kyrie when we can. I’m would be ok with that except it means we have to force Gee in the lineup. Miles and Casspi aren’t capable of guarding on ball too much.
People who think we are going to lose 50plus games without a major injury just don’t understand how good our backcourt already is and can be. Kyrie will likely get some All NBA 3rd team votes this season, as could Andy. I maintain that Dion could be in ROY convos the whole season. Pushing for the 8th seed and falling short is likely our destiny and that is OKAY!! Unless we get injured, we aren’t going to be bad enough to get a TOP 5 pick, so lets play winning basketball and not waste our time rooting for a team to lose. It’s a stupid thing to do this season. We have turned a corner.
ALREADY talking about the lottery after the first freaking game is a losers mentality, no matter how you try to spin it. That’s not “realism”. That’s “defeatism”. Everything else being said to try and defend the idea of looking for the lottery after opening night is just b.s. You dont game plan for the freaking lottery. Not when you have a player the caliber of Kyrie and Andy (if he’s healthy) and now possibly Dion. You game plan for the playoffs. If you’re out of contention by the all star break THEN you start talking about the lottery. And don’t give me that “if the Cavs go to the playoffs now they’ll be stuck in mediocrity” garbage. So continually losing and going after lottery picks are better right? That’s a one way ticket to becoming the Sacramento Kings. Since everyone loves the OKC comparison so much (even though most people who actually pay attention knows that it doesn’t fit because we’re in the much weaker Eastern conference, where a record at or around 500 will most likely get you in the playoffs), guess where OKC was when they first went to the playoffs? Yep, the 8th seed, so don’t give me that crap about if you go in as the 8th seed, you’ll be there forever. That’s ridiculous. Stop thinking like freaking losers when the Cavs JUST played their FIRST game. It doesn’t make you “realistic”. A losers mentality is weak, not realistic.
Ben, I agree. I personally think they can get the 8th seed, but if they come close and just miss it, I can live with that. I just hate this loser lottery talk already
Dion impressed with his D. He played Beal close and made things difficult for him. He also was the one that broke the Wizards 14-0 run with a clutch 3. He had a little trouble finishing at the rim, but other than that, I don’t think you could ask for a better start.
Gee had a rough night, but he looked unsure of himself. Like he doesn’t know his role in the offense.
Seeing Walton surprised me a little. I wouldn’t have minded Casspi playing when things started to stall in the 4th. Just to see if he could hit a shot or two. I wonder if coach Scott was expecting CJ Miles to take over for the second unit.
Also, am I the only one who doesn’t like the uniforms they were wearing? The wine with gold are much nicer…IMO
Brian – “Winning enough games this season to gain the No. 7 or No. 8 seed and lose in the playoffs’ first round does this franchise much less good than a season in which the young players develop but a lottery pick is gained with which they may gain another young, talented core player.”
I see this mentality a lot, and it makes some sense. But you are forgetting a few things. This team is not bad enough to get a top 8 lottery odds without a terrible injury. Really, what is the difference between the 9th pick and the 16th pick in most drafts after hindsight? Not much. There is no such thing as a guaranteed core player with the 10th pick. Now what is the difference between instilling a winning culture and getting playoff experience and learning how to win games for a young, mentaly maliable team of very green players learning to be professionals, as opposed to coasting for a pick? Bad habits die hard, and young guys get better faster than older guys, you don’t want to waste a year. Also, If you are trying to attract free agents and disgruntled players seeking a trade, what is the difference between a team that is bad, but has a few nice young players, and a team that has a playoff proven level talent and a locked in young core and the money to spend? We’ll have to spend the money on someone, the CBA demands it, we might as well make ourselves attractive enough to get who we want while spending as little as possible.
If the tradeoff was 8th seed for a top 5 pick, that would be one thing, but there is no way we get a top five pick without horrific injury or obviously horrific ethics instilled in our young players by our coach.
Brian – “Winning enough games this season to gain the No. 7 or No. 8 seed and lose in the playoffs’ first round does this franchise much less good than a season in which the young players develop but a lottery pick is gained with which they may gain another young, talented core player.”
I see this mentality a lot, and it makes some sense. But you are forgetting a few things. This team is not bad enough to get a top 8 lottery odds without a terrible injury. Really, what is the difference between the 9th pick and the 16th pick in most drafts after hindsight? Not much. There is no such thing as a guaranteed core player with the 10th pick. Now what is the difference between instilling a winning culture and getting playoff experience and learning how to win games for a young, mentaly maliable team of very green players learning to be professionals, as opposed to coasting for a pick? Bad habits die hard, and young guys get better faster than older guys, you don’t want to waste a year. Also, If you are trying to attract free agents and disgruntled players seeking a trade, what is the difference between a team that is bad, but has a few nice young players, and a team that has a playoff proven level talent and a locked in young core and the money to spend? We’ll have to spend the money on someone, the CBA demands it, we might as well make ourselves attractive enough to get who we want while spending as little as possible.
Thank you D, wholeheartedly agree. After the first game, the reminder of how good Varejoa is, Dion looking like a (and vastly outperforming a fellow) top 5 pick, and Kyrie starting his all star campsign off strong, to talk about lottery picks is nothing but defeatist, pessimistic, depressing, and just plain bad fandom.
And I was stoked last night the most by Dions all around performance, Kyrie again showing the preseason means nothing, Andy proving to all you trade pushers that your not gonna get anything better than him, and THOMPSON CATCHING AND DUNKING WITHOUT HOLDING THE BALL AT HIS WAIST FOR A SECOND!
Re: Waiters as backup PG.
I think Scott wants to keep his minutes under 30 for awhile, and bring him along slowly with minimal pressure. If a decent chunk of his minutes start coming with Kyrie on the bench, he may struggle a bit. 50 games into the season, I think we will see Scott shift in that direction, but I can see why he is not doing it right now. They brought in CJ miles to be a third creator and to score off the bench. Scott wants to see if he can take that role. Seems reasonable for now. Dion had a great game last night, but there is no need to rush the guy. Scott needs to work his mentor magic on him (like he did Kyrie last year) and keep him humble, hungry, and mature.
Few things I’d like to see from the Cavs. Zeller needs more time (Walton got 3 less minutes?!?! REALLY?), he wasn’t too impressive yesterday, but his stats were ok and he knocked down the open jumpers. He needs to learn to bang for rebounds, watching Andy should help there.
Gee should only ever dribble if given a clear lane to the hoop. He can finish, and you don’t want to take that away from him, but when his defender has position on him, he needs to pass the ball and not force things. Gibson should never dribble. Sloan and Walton should not see the court. Either Dion or Kyrie should be on the court at all times if we want to win against decent teams. Miles seems to be ready to take the baton from Jameson, looking to shooting every time he touches the ball no matter how bad the shot. And you all were worried we’d miss Jameson’s ability to get a shot off!
@D:
Anyone who watched our bench play has to know this team is heading for the lottery. They won’t be able to maintain or build on leads, and that will really hurt us against better teams. Personally, I think a high lottery finish is in this team’s best interests because we need at least one more great prospect, and we probably won’t find it in free agency.
Regardless, I’m just happy that the starting line-up looks like it’ll be wildly entertaining this year.
“Miles seems to be ready to take the baton from Jameson, looking to shooting every time he touches the ball no matter how bad the shot.”
lol…maybe. But on the second unit, you do need someone who’ll take/make shots. Last night, things weren’t falling, but it was one game. Also, I’d like to see them let Zeller try to post up a few times.
Can’t believe nobody has commented on the coolest thing about this game that was reported. That Kyrie turned to Byron before going in to stop the bleeding after the Cavs squandered a 14 point lead and said, “Don’t worry about it coach. I got it.” I don’t know if we can fully appreciate the phenomenon this kid is already. His 29 were effortless and made it seem like he could have scored 40 easy if he’d wanted to. He’s a natural leader at age 20, without the “look at me” attitude that many NBA stars have today. LBJ may have been the native son/chosen one, but give me a superstar like KI any day.
Brian – there are problems with your (popular) theory that lottery pick > 8th seed. First of all, We aren’t bad enough to get a top 8 pick and a big difference maker, and there is not much difference in talent between the 9th pick and the 16th pick in most drafts.
Second, we have to spend some serious money (like $15 million/yr at least) on somebody by this time next year, and if we have a playoff proven promising young core with only room for deeper playoff runs, that money will have a much better chance on being well spent on a good, close to market value Free Agent or disgruntled traded good player than if we are just another young team with a few nice pieces. (ala new orleans, charlotte, and host of others)
Third, We are too good that if we go hard every night and stay healthy, we are going to be at least in the hunt for the playoffs and certainly do no worse than 11th or 12 pick. If we want to tank again, we will have to teach our young core to coast, and not get the most out of them during their formative years, which can irreparably stunt their growth. And bad habits die hard.
All of these things together certainly outweigh the benefits of getting a 1% chance at a top 3 pick and 99% chance at one unproven unknown commodity picked at 10ish, as opposed to one picked at 15ish and all of the benefits listed above that go with competing for the playoffs.
D, I respectfully disagree. I would love for the Cavs to play well, be competitive, and for the young core to develop. And of course Byron Scott doesn’t game-plan for the lottery. He game-plans to win games. That’s the attitude every coach and player does and should take. But if I’m Chris Grant, if I’m trying to build a championship contender, if I’m taking the long view, I want the chance to add one more integral young player. And adding that one potentially integral young player is of far more value long term than making the playoffs and getting their ass kicked by a legit championship contender. If the team exceeds expectations and does make the playoffs, so be it. But earning a playoff berth and a first-round elimination is of far less consequence than the chance to add one potentially good or even great young player. They do that, they’re on the road to championship contention, and that’s what it’s about: contending for titles, not contending for mediocrity. And that would be a lot easier with another quality, young piece in place.
OKC started at the 8th seed. The approach you’re talking about turns you into the Sacramento Kings. Jeff Phelps just said the same thing on 92.3. They’ve HAD 4 picks in the top 20. At some point you have to start winning games. I’d rather not see the Cleveland Kings, a team that gets high draft picks year in and year out and never moves out of the basement. No thank you. They’ve played the lottery game. Enough is enough. You’ve got to start somewhere. And OKC started off as the 8th seed so if the OKC model is what everybody is shooting for, then what’s wrong with the 8th seed? We’re not going to stay there. That’s ridiculous. Being greedy for draft picks will send you a one way ticket to Sacramento.
We’ve had 4 picks in the top 20, I meant.
And being in the lottery does not guarantee that you get a good player. You could draft wrong. Or you could draft right and the player gets hurt or never lives up to their potential. Like Jeff Phelps, three starters last night were top 4 draft picks in the last 2 drafts. If you trust CG’s drafting, then we don’t NEED another lottery pick. If you don’t trust his drafting, then why would you want to give him another crack at it again by blowing another season for the lottery?
OK, question – Our backup PG situation is bad. Is it “sign Delonte West” bad? I honestly can’t come to a decision.
The Thunder were also a 50 win 8th seed…in Durant’s third year. OKC had 8 first round picks from the 2007-10 drafts. They didn’t hit on all of them, but it improved their chances of finding a young core to build around KD. In 2010 they grabbed the 11th pick (Adrich) in a Morris Peterson cash dump from New Orleans by maintaining their cap flexibility. Like it or not this is the script and it’s the right course. They could turn into the Kings, but if Grant would have just added mediocre players to heavy contracts to fill out the roster now in free agency they could be the Bucks or Rockets of the past few seasons and enter the dreaded NBA purgatory. The Cavs can’t lure elite free agents. They can’t. NBA players are too cosmopolitan to care about Rockefeller’s bones, rivers that have caught on fire or Lola fries (they might be interested in Lola fries). The Kings never were asset acquisition mode like Grant has been.
To us it feels like this year three of the rebuild. It’s not. The 2010-11 season was the year they tore down the old house. It was the year before the rebuild. Last year was year one of the reconstruction of the Cavs. The first step was landing a star and is the hardest part. They did that with Irving. Now it’s creating a young nucleus and hopefully another star or two. The Cavs easily could have played the 76ers role in the Howard/Bynum deal and added Bynum. They didn’t because it wasn’t in the run down. The Cavs bench is by built by design. They have cap room galore coming that can be used in trades. The ramifications of the new luxury tax hammer are coming down now and Cleveland should be able to grab a guy in the next year (Rudy Gay?) from a team that’s unwilling to pay the troll toll and they’ll have another lottery pick. They are overflowing with assets in expiring contracts, draft picks, cap relief for other teams. If the Cavs are lucky enough to have drafted three guys who deserve max-like contracts from the 2011-2013 drafts, Gilbert will be willing to pay for it unlike Clay Bennet. A full Q makes a full Horseshoe. Watching Irving, Waiters, Thompson and Zeller’s learn to tread water will be highly enjoyable in comparison to 2010 but they are still crazy young and the roster is incredibly shallow.
Nothing is “sign Delonte West” bad. Well, unless you want to get Gloria James a birthday present…. I KID!
Seattle/OKC
2006-2007 season
31-51
no playoff
kevin Durant Drafted 2nd. Won ROY
2007-2008 season
20-62
no playoffs
Russell Westbrook drafted 4th
Serge Ibaka drafted 24th
2008-2009 Season
23-59
no playoffs
James Harden drafted 3rd
2009-2010 Season
50-32
8th seed playoffs- out in first round.
2010-2011 Season
55-27
4th seed in playoffs – out in Conference Finals
2011-2012 Season
47-19 *strike shortened
2nd seed in playoffs – lost to Heat in Finals
CAVS:
2010-2011 season
19-63
Kyrie Irving 1st. won ROY
Tristan Thmpson drafted 4th
2011-2012
21-45
Drafted Dion Waiters 4th
Tyler Zeller drafted 17th by Dallas Mavericks(*trade)
2012-2013 Season
??-??
so, we have 4 draft picks in the top 17 over the last 2 drafts, where OKC had 4 picks over 3 drafts in the top 24. Both 3 in the top 5. Only difference is Durant, Westbrook, and Ibaka had 1 full year playing together when the drafted Harden and made the 8th seed. 3 bad years and 3 good drafts later they made the playoffs.
Getting to the playoffs is really on the team coming together. We can see little from last night other than they can win, and they can be beat.
Byron Scott is going to do his damnest to win games. But can’t you see Chris Grants reasoning for not signing a competent back up pg? It’s the most fullproof way of tanking to get back to into the lottery. If Anderson varejao has like 6 fewer rebounds we lose this game. Imagine how quickly we would have lost the lead if we were playing even a team like philly or the pacers.
I can’t help but agree J Hill. If they want to win, the need something more on the second team than what we have seen so far. I know Coach Scott always says he sees things in practice. But through preseason and the first game, I do not see a lot from the bench. And for a playoff run i do not see a bench that is going to hold or keep you in games while the starters rest.
Thank you D.
And again Brian, Chris Grant can’t do anything but trade both Verajoa and Kyrie Irving to ensure us a top 5 selection, and after 6, there isn’t such a thing as a sure-fire franchise type player that would be worth jettisoning a proven, underpaid, mentoring player like Verajoa out while instilling a losing culture (which is what happens when you trade your best on court player for 50 cents to the Dollar on future draft picks, and repeatedly say the playoffs and wins don’t matter)
Trading sessions – who had no future here, and even if he did it would be as a backup – to get future assets and boost draft stock after already losing your best player and being out of the playoff race is one thing, but to jettison your best player with a realistic shot at the playoffs (which the cavs will have if they stay healthy) just because he’s 30, for the sake of getting crappy draft picks (The only teams that will value Verajoa at the deadline are teams competing for playoffs/championship, and teams that are much more likely to hit those goals if we give them Verajoa for picks) and moving from 15th to 8th in the draft to get a player who will probably never be as good as Verajoa (perpetually underrated and still 72nd in espn player rankings, while there have been roughly 90+ top 8 draft picks currently still of a basketball playing age, many of whom have never been as good as Varajoa is or will likely be at 33) is just plain unconscionable.
If someone blows us away with an offer (like the bynum proposal) then sure, maybe we should flip him. But to actively beg teams to take him off our hands for middling draft picks is absurd.
J Hill, If Byron is really going to do his damnedest to win games, and I hope he does, he will not put sloan, walton, gibson, zeller, and miles on the floor together again against a real team. (unless zeller starts tearing it up. No, even then, no)
Hell, he’d never put Walton in again, and only Sloan if injuries/fatigue deamed it necassary or it was garbage time. Last night I think Byron figured we were playing the wizards without their two best players, he’d see what he could get out of some guys and he’s still tinkering with lineups. There wasn’t really any doubt in my mind, Kyrie’s mind, or Scott’s mind that if they sucked and lost the lead, he could always put the starters back in and get the W, which is exactly what he did. Against better teams I hope to see Scott trust Dion with the backup PG role, and if Sloan has to play, let him play with, I don’t know, at least one starter. He really wasn’t terrible in the first half when he was playing with decent NBA players around him.
Game was great to watch. Very impressed wioth Waiters. He wants that starting position. I disagree with the author to take him out to second team. Who takes his place for starter?? We have serious issues with the second team. Agh!! I was afraid most of the summer and fall that Gee would look flat and unconditioned and he did last night. He ‘s got to get his intensity back!! Baffled on Walton over Casspi???
Treyspin, I agree that it’s up to them. They have to stay healthy and they have to continue to gel well together, but the point is that they have a realistic shot at the playoffs and they should take it to the best of their abilities. I think CG shortened our rebuilding process by a year by getting 2 top 4 picks in the same year, when Kyrie and Tristan was drafted. We HAVE our 4 top 20 picks, now go out and win!
D, I agree. The post was to put into not the timeline. the draft selections that we have that closely mirror OKC. Timing for a team to gel will vary from team to team. But we have our picks and we could start winning once the gel. But i agree that we should not need to take the same length to get into the playoffs and get better each year without having to get a lottery pick.
the issue i have is with anyone beyond 6 possible starters we have. I am not saying tank the season or that we should starting praying to the ping pong ball gods (here on referred to as the PPBG). I am saying we need serious help to want to get to the playoffs with this team beyond the first unit.
I know it is early, but the best person off the bench are any of are starters to come and relieve anyone on the second team.
Durant’s first year the Thunder had two top 5 picks. Grant wants to improve his odds of hitting on a core like Presti did. The Cavs have been careful not to become a mish mosh like the Kings and have maintained their flexibility by not committing to future salary yet and by not bring in a selfish player (Saint Weirdo…). The Cavs have leadership on the team in Irving and Andy. The Kings are the Kings because they have no leadership and have a terrible ownership and city situation. The Cavs won’t become the Kings.
Presti hit home runs on Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and Harden in three separate drafts. The rest were between singles and doubles at best. Green was a solid prospect who was deemed unsignable because of the future contracts going to Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka/Harden (errr) so he was traded to Perkins. Grant hit a home run with Irving. We still don’t know what Waiters, Thompson or Zeller are. I’d like to think that Thompson and Zeller will be doubles and solid contributors to a playoff team and that Waiters can between a double and a triple and a secondary or god willing a third scorer.. We don’t know yet. Neither does Chris Grant. He wants to improve his odds.
There’s a severe lack of depth on the roster and its intentional. They carried over the Baron Davis amnestied deal to hit the salary floor. Gilbert isn’t being cheap, Grant is being smart long term. The Cavs were in WIN NOW MODE every year when Lebron got here and that’s one of the countless reasons that era didn’t result in a title and he left. How did that work out? They never paired him with a legit runningmate because they got too mediocre too fast. The following year they drafted Luke Jackson at 10 and it was a flop. Then came the Jeri Welch deal…
I’d love to believe the Cavs could be a playoff team this year but I don’t think it’s in the cards. I wish I could. I’m greatly looking forward to watching this team struggle and grow from it. That’s how this league works for non-marquee cities. There is no free agency salvation flop coming. The cards are stacked against the mid-market teams. Grant is just trying to improve his odds. What happens when/if Irving misses a few games? Where do they have a secondary scorer on a night Waiters is off? What happens if Andy gets hurt? It’s not like those aren’t possible or likely scenarios.
The starters played well against one of the 10 worst teams in the league without their best two players. If the Cavs were playing the Wizards without Irving and Andy they would have gotten pounded by 15…By the Wizards without Wall and Nene.