Call Malone. We're mailing this one in.
So due to unforeseen circumstances and no options to actually watch the game on the moving picture box last night, we’ll not be posting a recap. Here’s the ESPN recap and box score. I think they cared about as much as we did. NBA.com has some video highlights, which include a couple monster slams from Gee. Michael Curry at Cleveland.com had a good running thoughts thread of the game. It did not paint a pretty picture. By his account, Kyrie looked like a ball hog, and the team looked tired and irritated with each other. The good guys lost, and the starting lineup was shuffled again.
The good news though, is that Tyler Zeller started and played well, and held Hibbert to just 4 points with his physical play, and chipped in 13 and 7 boards. The Alonzo Gee we all remember from the last two years is back to stealing lazy passes to the wing, and then flushing them. It’s nice to see him fill up the box score again… There wasn’t much else of note: Waiters was 4/14, but had a couple nice dimes, and no turnovers. Kyrie was an inefficient 8/21, and the bench was anemic. 6 Cavs didn’t play, and Casspi only got in for 8 minutes. What are we to take from this? Zeller looked like an NBA player, Gee appears to be back, and Indiana looks really deep.
So now that that is out of the way, we can thank the stars that preseason is over, and concentrate on the matter at hand. The question du jour for Cavs fans is, “what is the starting lineup and rotation going to look like?” My pick is: Kyrie, Miles, Casspi, TT, and Andy starting with Zeller, Gee, Waiters, Gibson, and Leuer/Samuels backing them up in order of priority. But it’s anyone’s guess at this point. I thought Miles looked his best in preseason starting at the 2, and that Casspi earned a shot at being at least a token starter. Hopefully the team picks one soon and the guys get used to playing with each other because by all accounts, they looked lost last night. Tell us what your lineup and rotation would be, and why. Best comment wins a free year of CavsTheBlog.
Curious if anyone would like to see Andy slide back to PF and start Zeller at C. Tristan might have a higher ceiling but Zeller looks more NBA ready at this point. Also Tristan’s development might be better served going up against more reserves than starters.
Kyrie
Miles
Casspi
Andy
Zeller
Kyrie
Miles
Casspi
TT
Varejao
Waiters has not earned a starting role. Period. He’s barely earned any role at all. Bring him off the bench with Gee, give him about 6-10 minutes a game with Kyrie to see if they can learn to play off each other, but mostly let him be the creator after Sloan/Pargo/backup-du-jour brings the ball up the court. I like Zeller more off the bench than as a starter right now; he can create real matchup problems against a second unit (either dragging a big outside with his range, or posting up an undersized backup C). Use Leuer/Samuels as matchups dictate.
Given that rotation of 8-10, there’s a lot of lineups you can play:
Runners (Kyrie, Waiters, Gee, TT, Zeller)
Shooters (Kyrie, Miles, Gee/Casspi, Leuer, Zeller)
Defense (Gibson, Waiters, Gee, TT, Varejao)
Size/Boards (Kyrie, Gee, Casspi, Varejao, Zeller)
Sure, there’s still some holes in there in terms of talent/skill, but I think we have the makings of a full NBA roster that can produce for the first time in a while.
I would heartily disagree with your description of Curry’s live blogging as “good,” In fact, I think he has no business being referenced at all and I, for one, am done reading anything he writes. He sees EVERYTHING in the most negative light possible and every “wrap-up” is filled with unfounded proclamations of doom. He’ll, he is LITERALLY the only person I’ve ever read who thinks Scott is fighting for his job and is nit a good coach. I think this guy’s credibility is at a near-zero level…and to paraphrase Iverson, “pre-season? We talking pre- season??”
Oh, one more thing: what could you have possibly seen or heard this pre-season to make you believe Casspi will start?? I mean, seriously? Wow…
Casspi: 15.6 MPG 55% FG 46% 3pt 5.6 PPG, 2.2 RPG .6 Assists 1 TO .6 Steals.
Gee: 23.6 MPG 45% FG 33% 3pt 8.32 PPG 3.3 RPG 2 Assists, 2 TO 1 Steal
Miles: 21.9 MPG 41% FG 42% 3pt 93% FT 11.2 PPG 2.4 RPG 1.9 Assists 2 Steal 1.4 TO
Waiters: 22.3 MPG 34% FG 35% 3pt 75% FT 8.6 PPG 2 RPG 2.1 Assists .6 Steals 1.7 TO
Casspi was clearly the most efficient scorer of all the wings. Gee was a slightly better facilitator, but I think Casspi outplayed him. They all outplayed Waiters. From a scoring efficiency standpoint and from size standpoint, Casspi earns the starting nod. He’s also the only one who can’t play multiple positions. He’s only a 3. Plus he won the Orlando game in overtime. But it’s not who will start (Casspi probably won’t), it’s who should start. I think he earned the nod.
In the least amount of minutes played and almost always against the worst competition? Sorry, not buying it. Scott would’ve given him more meaningful minutes in the 7 pre-season games if he had any chance to start.
Kyrie
Waiters
Miles
TT
Andy
Kyrie—-Booby—Sloan
Miles—-Waiters
Gee—–Casspi—Walton
Tristan–Leuer—-(three-way trainwreck of Samardo, Jones, and Harangody)
Andy—-Zeller
I still think Gee is most effective coming off the bench..
The CAVS would be foolish to keep Walton over Kevin Jones. I seen this guy play at WVU and he will become a double-double guy who has a higher ceiling than Tristan Thompson. What has Walton done besides take up cap space since he came to Cleveland? Jones will be a good player coming off the bench. he can score and rebound.
I think the only ‘value’ Walton has is his contract. We keep him just to trade him to a team needing cap space. I like Jones, but he hasn’t showed me any reason to keep him. Maybe he can join Eric in the D-leage. I still can’t belive we gave Haragody guranteed money – he must have pictures of Scott or Grant in compromising position.
I still have hope for Dion. He’s just not attacking the way he was expected to. Maybe Scott told him to save it for games that matter and to just concentrate on his jumper?
I like Kyrie-CJ-Gee-TT-Varejao. I like the mix of scoring and defense that the lineup gives us. CJ and Gee should be able to take on wing players, with TT and Varejao holding their own on the boards and Kyrie is left to being Kyrie and running the offense.How long that stays the lineup depends on Waiters and Zeller.
I personally think Zeller is a future 15 and 10 poor man’s Chris Bosh. I watched him alot at UNC and I think he’s the type of player who brings a ton to the table and takes very little off. So I see him as a 20+ minute a night bench guy at the beginning and then a starter depending on the moves we make and how his defense evolves.
As far as Waiters I don’t know what he is. I see him in a James Harden like second unit do everything guy, that plays minutes with the first unit as the situation calls for it. He’s been compared to everyone but Isee a ton of playmaking in him and think he could really be great playing coming off the bench but playing crucial minutes as a facilitator when Kyrie’s resting and second option when we need an offensive pop.
I see it being Kyrie-CJ-Gee-TT-Zeller by the end of the year.
I think Tristan Thompson is like Jeff Green, a tweener. Harangody looks good and he is very physical, though he may not play much, he can give valuable positive attitude during practice.
I feel like Irving/Zeller would be too vulnerable to pick&rolls, so I kept Andy in the starting lineup. Of course, that means we’re trotting out 3 young, skinny white guys in the second unit, so apply liberal doses of Kevin Jones or Samardo Samuels when more bulk is required.
I don’t have tremendously high expectations that they will challenge for a playoff spot this year. They are still an incredibly young team. Around February Grant will probably make his assessment on whether to move Andy if they don’t appear to be a legit playoff threat and he’s still healthy. Waiters will dazzle one night and disappoint the next. My ideal starting lineup to start the season would be….
Irving
Miles
Gee
Thompson
Zeller
Andy, Waiters and Gee would be subbed in early. I’d prefer Andy off the bench as a super sub. He could come in at either the 4 or 5 and I don’t think he can handle starters minutes. Zeller is the ideal compliment to Thompson’s game. Zeller can stretch out the defense with his midrange ability and Tristan can crash the boards. Eventually Waiters needs to be in the starting lineup so he and Irving can learn to play together. Both of their games scream undersized 2′s to me and maybe it can work if both can learn to share with one another and the rest of the lineup.
If we are really trying to win, the egos of TT and Dion will have to be stroked as both come off the bench. Andy and TT is not a good combination, even though Andy is a supremely talented OFFENSIVE player as well. Yes, he is not a stretch shooting 4, but his advanced stats on offense are among the best in franchise history. In short, he understands how to move himself and the ball to help create great shot opportunities. TT’s primary skill is his offensive rebounding which is somewhat redundant with Andy, though to be fair, TT’s poor defensive rebounding can be picked up by Andy. Point being, Andy with Zeller, TT with Zeller, Andy with Leuer, and TT with Leuer are much better combinations than Zeller and Leuer or Andy and TT.
Dion is a premiere pick and roll player and should run the offense whenever Kyrie doesn’t. No one else should really ever be in charge. For that reason, Dion must be in the Harden mold and come off the bench. Each unit we have needs to have defense and some floor spacing.
The following lineups have drastically different minute distributions. We don’t need to use more than 10 guys.
starting lineup (Gee and Miles vary from 2 and 3 depending on matchup. Zeller spreads out the D for Kyrie/Andy P&R with Miles working off the weakside.)
Kyrie
Gee
Miles
Andy
Zeller
first substitution (Maybe our crunchtime lineup too if Andy and TT figure it out.)
Kyrie
Dion
Miles
TT
Andy
second substitution (Dion takes over ball, we go strict pick and roll with TT and 3 shooters. Small lineup, but Casspi helps the size and TT isn’t bad at the 5 in spurts. I also like this lineup with Andy instead of TT. TT doesn’t pick and roll as well as Andy’s savant level. Dion could kill with a guy as good as Andy rolling.)
Dion
Boobie
Casspi
Leuer
TT
That’s about it. We don’t need to play more guys than that. We don’t need Pargo or Sloan to sniff a minute. Teams don’t use more than 4 Bigs, and Leuer is my pick for the 4th. We CANNOT play Gee, TT, and Andy together. You can’t have 3 guys who are poor outside shooters on the floor at the same time.
Agree, except that I would sub out Miles for Dion, not Gee for Dion. Gee is better than Miles overall, and with Kyrie and Waiters on the court we don’t particularly need another ballhandler/scorer. on the perimeter