Note: We have a new links aggregator at Cavs: The Blog named Dani Socher. Unfortunately, we’re having some technical problems re: getting Dani’s account set up, so I’m posting his stuff from my (Colin’s) account. Bear with us. We will make it through this together as a family who love each other very much and sometimes argue about sports.
“Free agent forward C.J. Miles has signed with the Cleveland Cavaliers, according to a series of tweets from the Salt Lake Tribune‘s Brian T. Smith.” (Sports Illustrated)
“At this point, Cleveland seems content to wait this thing out and bring back Gee for just one year if they have to. They aren’t going to offer a multi-year contract and bid against themselves — that’s just bad business.” (Conrad Kaczmarek)
“So in the meantime, while football is getting ready to start and baseball is going through all their trade deadline hoopla, here’s some random basketball thoughts to pass the time.” (Andrew from WFNY)
“Tolliver, 27, has attracted interest from Minnesota, Indiana and Cleveland…” (Michael Lee)
“Alonzo Gee has not gotten any offers from other teams.” (Bob Finnan)
“Barbosa has spent the majority of his NBA career providing instant offense and energy off the bench as a backup at both guard positions. That’s something the Cavs could use, as their backcourt currently consists of reigning Rookie of the Year Kyrie Irving, lottery pick Dion Waiters and veteran Daniel Gibson, and possibly Sloan and/or recently obtained Jeremy Pargo.” (Sam Amico)
“(Cavaliers draftee) Milan Macvan signed a two-year contract with Galatasaray.” (Djordje Matic)
“NBA opening night: Wizards @ Cleveland, Boston @ Miami, Dallas @ Lakers.” (Marc J. Spears)
Notes
Miles is a decent add for small-forward depth, but he’s nothing to get excited about…Alonzo seems to be getting a lot less interest than expected, and the Cavs are fine with that…Some good Cleveland basketball thoughts from Andrew at WFNY…Tolliver is still young and talented, and another decent PF could be great for the Cavs…Barbosa could provide a spark off the bench, and the roster isn’t full yet…Milan Macvan was drafted with the 54th pick in 2011, with low expectations abound…Wizards vs. Cavs could be fun, Kyrie and Waiters vs. Beal and Wall should be a matchup to watch for years.
So, if nothing happens with any big player deals that have been rumored off and on so many times, I wouldn’t mind if the Cavs just pick up some basic level players (and some vets) to fill out the roster to allow for the young guns to get the max amount of floor time. I like Barbosa a lot and think he could contribute well to the team. I do not like Tolliver and not sure how well he can contribute without taking time from others.
As far as the Wizards vs. Cavs, I am looking forward to it. I think Wall and Beal will have a hard time(at least I know Wall will).
I’m not sure why people are so bearish on the Cav’s prospects for next season…It’s like no one remembers that they were in playoff contention for much of last season before a series of injuries led them to wisely throw in the towel. Barring further injuries, it seems like this year’s edition should be better than last year’s, so I fully expect them to be in the playoff hunt again. By the position,
PG: Kyrie ranked 5th among point guards in efficiency as a rookie, and with Rose’s departure, only Parker, Westbrook, and Paul could realistically outperform him next season. Defense is a concern, sure, but this is a position where Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo were on the first and second all-defensive teams last year, so this is still a matchup the Cavs are going to take almost every night.
There are going to be 15 or so minutes left over here every night, which will probably go to Waiters. These minutes likely won’t be pretty, but shouldn’t be crippling either.
SG: Obviously, it’s hard to tell what we’ll get from Waiters. But says Hollinger of his draft rater, “Perimeter players with high ratings all become stars. All of them.” and Waiters rated #1 among them this year at 14.12. Based on this, while there may be a learning curve, I expect Waiters to be at least an average shooting guard by the middle of the season, if not better. Last year, It only took a 16.1 PER to crack the top 10 shooting guards, and a mark right around there is certainly within reach for Waiters. People (including me) tend to assume that because he’s undersized he’s going to be a liability on defense, but scouting reports seem much more optimistic about him on this end, citing his strength, good hands, and intensity.
Gibson shot 29% on 2′s, and 40% on 3′s last year. With Waiters around, you have to think he’ll be doing more of the latter, and that alone should assure him of a better season this year. He can’t defend SG’s at his size, but he’s always done a fine job once he’s switched to defend a PG.
SF: Probably the Cav’s weakest position, we’ll see a medley of Gee, Miles, Azubuike, Walton, and Casspi. On the bright side, due to the sheer volume of 3′s on the team, at least one of these guys will probably have a good (15 PER) season overall, and at least one of them should prove to be a reliable 3-point threat (all 5 of them are at least 33% for their career). After Gee, these guys all play defense that’s somewhere between suspect and atrocious, which is the main reason why the Cavs will be at a disadvantage here most nights.
PF: Tristan is another player who’s production is hard to project. It’s probably bad practice to cite summer league when I completely ignored Waiter’s dud, but Tristan shot 61% from the field, suggesting that he’ll take a step forward offensively next year. I actually like him coming off the bench to cover dangerous big men when Varejao’s off the court. Jon Leuer and Kevin Jones will probably both get some minutes here whenever the opposing PF isn’t a scoring threat. Realistically, unless Tristan improves dramatically, the Cavs are going to lose this matchup as well most of the time.
C: Varejao’s probably the third best center defensively after Howard and Chandler, and had the best offensive season of his career last year as well. He’s the closest thing the Cavs have to a known quantity, and I’d take him over all but a handful of other centers. Zeller is also something of a known quantity as rookies go, and should immediately be an above-average center off the bench. He may take a while to come around defensively, but if the Cavs are smart they’ll have either Tristan or Andy on the court with him to handle big post threats. Few teams will have an advantage on the Cavs here.
Defense at the guard positions is a concern, but with mobile big men ready to defend the pick and roll, the only real threats are opponents who create lots of shots on the perimeter. As we saw in the playoffs last year, those teams torch just about everybody.
Another oft-cited concern is the lack of shooters of our own. But 2 of the 3 main players in our guard rotation are 40% 3 point shooters, and the third may well turn out to be another above-average marksman. Plus, as I said earlier, at least one of our 5 SF’s is likely to find his stroke at some point. Azubuike in particular was an excellent (45%) 3 point shooter before his injury. If he gets healthy, the Cavs have 3 of the top 30 3-point shooters in the league. Not bad at all.
As for strengths, the Cavs have the two biggest ones in the NBA, in my opinion. One, they have a franchise perimeter player who can score with efficiency and set up teammates. I won’t waste my breath elaborating on that. Two, they can defend the paint. I see center as the most important position defensively in basketball, simply because more defensive plays involve the center than any other position. A good defensive center can make up for weakness on the perimeter; much more so than the other way around. In this way, Varejao should single-handedly make the Cavs an above-average defensive team next season.
That was somewhat longer-winded than i meant for it to be…In short, I see the Cavs as a top-5 team at Point Guard and Center, and treading water in between. That should be a playoff team, right? I’m not saying a 6th seed is the best thing in the world, but with the pieces they have that’s about where i think the Cavs are.
Oh wow, much longer winded than I expected. Sorry for the wall guys, I didn’t realize how long that was getting typing in this little box :P
Interestesting post, Nathan. Even though it was rather lengthy. However, I do disagree with your opinion on Tristan. Tristan’s improvement throughout the condensed season showed that he has a great work ethic so I think he will continue put in a lot of work to improve enough to at least be a solid starting PF next season. Will he make the all-star team? No, highly doubtful, but I don’t think 12 PPG 9 RPG and 2 BPG aren’t out of the question. If (Big If) Tristan can put up the aforementioned stat line I think that will be about middle of the pack among NBA PF’s
Also, on another note, is their any legs to the trade rumor involving the Cavs and the T’Wolves that would send Varejao to Minnesota for Derrick Williams and Luke Ridnour?
Derek- I chose not to add that to the links, since it seems there is literally no truthfulness to the rumor, and it has faded quickly. Personally, i’m glad.
Regarding the trade the Cavs don’t want the salary that trade requires us to take. Right now Kahn in an effort to create the whitest team ever (only mostly joking is offering 2 first for Andy but the cavs are holding out for better
@ Nathan,
Nice breakdown.
Totally agree that our shooting should be much improved by getting Boobie off the ball more and Kyrie at times. I strongly believe that Andy should start at the 4 and Zeller at 5. They can switch many assignments depending on matchups, but it gives us a Big Z type player to pair with Andy. I think Zeller has a shot at first team All-rookie depending on how they classify Davis. He will immediately step in and play thoughtful basketball, make open jumpers, and constantly run the floor. People don’t seem to realize that he was only showing his J in the Summer league, but that the kid was very effective in the post. Clearly, we don’t need that to be our primary offensive attack, but a strange myth has developed about him lacking a post game. Strange.
I think we need to use TT like Chicago has used Taj Gibson. I think they are very similar players. He can provide more offense off the bench than we need from him in the starting lineup when Kyrie/Andy Pick and Roll game makes him a bit useless. He doesn’t have great hands, which is very rarely improved too much. I love his energy and his bounce, but he really doesn’t get off the floor very quickly for someone with his leaping ability and his foul shooting regressed in summer league after being much better at the end of last season. I’m sure he can get that up to around 70%, but I don’t see him really developing a reliable 15 footer anytime soon. In reality, Andy and TT play the same game only Andy plays it MUCH better. Zeller is a perfect compliment to both of them.
Miles is quite an upgrade over Gee regardless of whether Gee comes back. For their careers, they rate the same on the defensive end and Miles, though incredibly streaky(i’ve written lots on this) is a far better offensive player. I would like Gee to come back because he plays hard and is a decent 9th guy or so, but last season due to the dearth of quality wings Cleveland has fallen for the only average looking dude in the bar. Miles is average looking too, but maybe he has a nice suit on or something. (I apologize for this analogy).
I consistently am amazed with the Tolliver talk. Not about our interest but in everyone talking as though he is a Power Forward and not primarily a Small Forward. He is capable of playing the 4 at times, and did a lot more bigman in college, but the majority of his minutes in the NBA have come at the 3. Last season, of the top 20 lineups with him, only 2 featured him at the 4. He works hard, has somewhat mediocre to average corner 3, rebounds pretty well(for a 3), and generally gets torched at the defensive end. He is one of those guys that sticks out when he makes a great hustle play and you think, “hey, this guy is pretty good!”, and then you don’t notice that people easily step by him like he is stuck to the floor. Fine for a 10th guy, but we already have about 6 10th guys.
Ben, TT only took a handful of FTs in summer league, its a sample size not really worth much. Miles has regressed the last few years and has never been considered an above average defender, so I would definitely take the newer to the NBA, still likely improving Gee over him in a heartbeat. Also, almost all of their numbes are similar, except that Gee consistently gets almost twice the rebounds Miles does and scores more points per shot, and was playing a whole lot better than that last year with a healthy Andy and Kyrie. Miles is probably better than casspi at least. Either way, not much difference between them, they are both below average starters and I don’t think either are “quite” an upgrade over the other.
As far as who to start, I don’t care as long as Zeller, Andy, and thompson all play 30+ minutes, then they’ll be sharing the court together with each other a lot throughout the game.
Derek, I love andy but would do that trade in a heartbeat. Williams is way to valuable to Minnesota to consider it. Anyways, I think its very presumptuos to think and can get a 12-9-2 with any efficiency. If he gets those totals with more minutes but is still chucking up <44% from the field and 55% from the line he'd still be a below average PF. I'm much more concerned with his ability to convert the shots he takes and FTs than his ability to put up double digit points. Plus, he needs to get better at playing team and weakside defense, not just bump his block total. Also all the guys near 2 blocks last season had much better block rates per minute as rookies than Tristan did a year ago, so he should improve from 1.0, but I think 2 would be surprising. 9 boards should be a minimum with another year of experience and an assumed increase in playing time.
I doubt Cleveland makes the move there for Williams, even if it’s a possibility. The move for Andy, if any, probably be for draft picks. I have a very hard time believing that the Cavs want 3 guys on rookie contracts picked in the top 4 in the same year. The cap implications on that are too staggering.
Nathan – Nice analysis. I agree you can’t really tell what he’ll do from summer league. However, he looked pretty comfortable with the ball, and was looking to score most times. He really needs to develop a jumpshot. Even if it’s only from 10 ft. Right now, he’s trying to drive every time. He’s going to become predictable.
Whether he’s starting or coming off the bench, I think he needs to be partnered up with Zeller in the front court. Since TT plays close to the basket on offense, the Cavs would be better served having a C with some range. That would be Zeller. Conversely, Varejao seems to fit best with Leuer. Andy usually scores by cutting to the basket and receiving a pass, whereas Leuer could be about 20 ft away.
Derek – I wouldn’t mind seeing D. Williams being sent to Cleveland, but not for Andy. The Cavs would be getting short-changed. Besides, I think they could pick him up for less. Minnesota has already traded for Budinger, and tried to sign Batum. It seems like they are trying to replace him.
Nathan – I’m referring to TT in that first paragraph. I accidently left out his name….lol
I figured it out when you said “Even if it’s only from 10 ft.” :)
Looking back, I probably should have divided the roster in to Guards, Small Forwards, and Bigs instead of going position by position. I definitely agree that ideally, they Cavs frontcourt should always look like
Varejao OR Tristan with Zeller OR Leuer OR Jones
but I haven’t thought about it enough to have an opinion on who would work best with who beyond that.
On an unrelated point, did anyone else notice what a rebounding beast Zeller was in summer league?
With Varejao, Tristan, Zeller, and Jones (4th in the NCAA in rebounds, 3rd in offensive rebounds) could this be among the best rebounding teams in the league?
nathan – I like the optimism. But if you are going to start by using the whole “almost a playoff team last year” and extrapolate from there…
Jamison had a pretty high usage rage last year – he’s gone. And while it will be much more rewarding to watch Waiters than AP – I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of “rookie mistakes” this year.
Whenever you replace aging veterans with rookies your defense suffers. Few rookies excel at defense other than maybe on-ball perimeter defense. Zeller might be great in a few years but he will get killed on the block – it’s just the way rookies are. It doesn’t mean they wont improve, I just think the influx of youth is going to hamper defense even if the influx of athleticism might make for more efficient offensive possessions. Also, the Cavs are a Varejao OR Irving injury away from being a lottery team. They have no depth in the backcourt and if they lose Varejao they might be the worst defensive team in the NBA.
tsunami, in theory your points make a lot of sense, in practice, when Antawn jamison is your high usage vet, replacing him with a rookie who makes rookie mistakes will still mean you’ll have more efficient shots, and getting rid of him can only, and I mean this literally, help a defense. He is the worst NBA defender these eyes have seen.
Antawn was the all time leader in veteran mistakes and turnstyle defense. to say zeller might get killed on the block implies that he will at least be trying, a big step up from “Be mesmerized by my ability to convert horrible shot selections at an only mildly poor rate, and don’t pay attention to any other part of my game, because I don’t have it” Antawn MotherF’ing Jamison.
Matt – there is a difference between what the eye sees and the bottom line. Since it takes wins and not “trying hard enough” or “not playing turnstile defense” or “taking more efficient shots” to get into the playoffs, color me skeptical that replacing Jamison (team leader in minutes played) with rookies and Tristan is going to suddenly put us in the playoffs.
Even the “best” rookies are generally horrific on defense. Everyone is assuming the Cavs will be better this year because they will invariably be more exciting.
But defensively, better the devil you know, ya know?
no, not when the devil you know is the one of the worst defenders in the NBA, is my point. There is roughly a 0 percent chance that Zeller will play significantly worse defense than Antawn.
And Not playing turnstyle defense and taking efficient shots and trying on defense directly correlate to wins. Wins are the outcome of what happens on the court, they don’t appear magically because you have enough veterans on a roster. I agree Antawn’s pure volume on offense will create holes and put pressure on Kyrie, Tristan, Andy, Dion and Zeller to fill, and their percentages might take a slight dip because of it, but I can’t see them collectively being worse at filling the extra scoring load than Antawn with his 40/34/68 shooting line he put up last year. And again, simply being a veteran does not mean you are an asset on defense. The Lakers own fansites and owners ribbed how Antawn has been terrible on defense and theorized ways to help mitigate the liability he is on that end of the floor.
Moral of the story, the youngin’s might not have what it takes to make the playoffs (I think they will, but clearly there are a lot of unknowns right now). That said, having Jamison would only tip the scales in the narrowest of circumstances, he would not be a main factor in a playoff hunt next year. The only way he’d be a major factor is if TT, Zeller, and Dion all suck drastically, in which case we wouldn’t make the playoffs regardless.
Also, we aren’t talking Cavs last year – Jameson + minutes for Tristan + 2 rookies = Playoffs. We are talking Cavs last year -Jameson + more minutes for what should be a significantly improved Tristan and Kyrie + 2 highly touted rookies who fill glaring needs – Complete hole at shooting gaurd (should be, still to be seen) + 60% more games from Andy and 20% more for Kyrie if both stay healthy = 7th-8th seed contender.
Obviously thats an optimistic view, but its quite realistic. If the cavs stay healthy, they should definitely be fighting for a spot in the weaker east.
The problem, is that SO MANY THINGS have to happen. Optimistic might not be a strong enough term. Let’s, instead, look at any number of possibilities, and how, in my opinion, they would keep the Cavs out of the playoffs.
1.) Injury to Varejao (it’s happened before)
2.) Injury to Kyrie (it’s happened before)
3.) Regression from Gee + continued lack of improvement from Casspi
4.) Bench getting completely destroyed
It’s kind of like everyone forgets that Ramon Sessions was (at one time) the most productive player on the Cavs. If you can all recall, one of the few strengths the Cavs had last year was that their bench outscored their opponents. That was almost entirely due to Sessions – who is gone. Undoubtedly Boobie is going to play with the second unit where he is worst suited.
So, what is more likely, any of the 4 things I mentioned or:
1.) Kyrie makes the normal explosive sophmore leap that Boobie never made PLUS
2.) Waiters produces more like the next Westbrook/Wade than the next Evan Turner PLUS
3.) Zeller produces like he looks – which is to say Hollinger’s projections are dead on balls right for Waiters and dead no balls WRONG for Zeller PLUS
4.) Everyone stays healthy
It’s great that we’ve all able to talk ourselves into all those things happening, but it is more likely that ANY ONE of the ones I mentioned will happen before the stars align and all 4 of the good things happen.
All 4 of the good things don’t have to happen, and any one of the bad things could happen and we should still compete as long as Andy and Kyrie both can play 75% of the season. We could have a poor bench (though miles, Gibson, and Zeller coming off it seems to not be drastically bad) and Gee can regress, but if Kyrie makes a leap in improvement and Waiters just plays like a top 5 draft pick drafted to get into the paint and convert/dish, and Zeller plays like the low cieling High floor player he was drafted to be, thats still a playoff contender in the weak east. Who’s locking them out? Philadelphia Orlando, Milwaukee, New Jersey, and Detroit? I just don’t see it. If we are better than 4 of those 5 teams and we’ll make the playoffs. Is it guaranteed? Of course not. Is it likely? If we stay healthy I think it is. A big caveat, yes.
Regardless, I don’t think making the playoffs is in our best interest this year, but with Kyrie looking like he can be a top 5 pg this year, A healthy Andy who is a borderline all-star even being more hustle than stats, solid front court depth (By all account Zeller looks nba ready) and significant help on the wing (Miles for depth, and if Dion is half of rookie D Wade he’d still be a huge improvement at SG) make us a much better team this year than last. Looking at the poor talent in the east, and we have a shot and it should be seen as a disappointing performance if these guys stay healthy and aren’t able to give a legitimate run at the playoffs. If we stay healthy and have a top 8 lottery pick, clearly Kyrie/Dion/Zeller/Thompson aren’t anything close to who we thought they were.
All I’m saying is that should be the teams and players mindset because its true. Its very realistic that they should be competing for a playoff spot and anything less than that, barring unforeseen extended injuries to key guys, should rightfully disappoint the players. If you want to temper everything by saying someone could go down for most of the season, then I guess we should all not ride Miami so hard because if lebron goes down they’ll have trouble making the playoffs (bosh, wade, and 6 scrubs gonna fair greatly)
Thats I guess what I’m getting at. If we stay relatively healthy (like our best 3 or 4 players all play 75%+ of games) and aren’t sniffing the playoffs in the weak east, we’ll have a lot of people who’s performances will be quite disappointing. It probably means 2 or 3 of the following: Kyrie regressed, Thompson regressed, Dion sucked, Zeller Sucked. If Kyrie or Andy goes down early for a long time, I’ll temper my expectations then. No reason to go forecasting it now.
The east will be drastically different this year. That is for sure. I think the Nets will be a playoff team for sure, barring injury. Atlanta? That’s a big if. If Horford regresses, that team could implode. Orlando is probably out of the playoffs. The team I think will jump up to take Orlando’s spot? I think even with the subtractions, Philly is a playoff team. So two teams drop out: Orlando and Maybe Atlanta. I think New Jersey takes Orlando’s spot, and We’re fighting every other team for the 8th spot. I think Toronto will be much improved (because of Lowry, not Big V), as could be Detroit. Milwaukee will be competitive because psycho is coaching them, even though appear to be becoming Warriors east. That’s a lot of teams to have to be better than. And let’s not count out Washington who has a decent player at every position now, and potential stars in the back court. If they can round out a bench they will be tough to beat.
Among teams competing for seeds 2-7 in the east, you could make the argument that the Cavs have the best point guard, the best center, and the second best shooting guard. Zeller, Tristan, Gee, and Boobie should all be quality rotation players, by any team’s standards, so what’s not to like here?
Also, don’t count out Azubuike…he was a 45% 3 point shooter and had a 20 PER before missing the last two seasons to injury. If he’s anywhere near his former self, that’s another quality rotation player.
And what’s with all the concern about defense? Our D at center will be world class with Andy, and whatever we get from Tristan and Zeller will be miles better than what resistance Jamison provided. Our likely starter at the 3 is an above average defender, and from what i’ve heard so is Waiters. That leaves one potential weakness at point guard. Luckily, a weakness at point guard can only be exploited by the opposing point guard (a weakness at center could be exploited by players at all positions). Better still, a good defensive frontcourt can do a lot to mitigate that weakness, and that’s exactly what the Cavs have.
Unlike every other team in the east, all but one of the Cav’s rotation players should be expected to improve next season, and they have absolutely zero over-the-hill rotation players. That translates to rapid improvement, and I think that’s what we should expect.
Dani, Mallory….we’re adding a lot of writer’s who I originally thought were women before seeing a “his” possessive used
writers*. That’s what I get for trying to be clever
Matt- My aforementioned potential stat line of 12 ppg, 9 rpg, and 2 bpg was just a line that I think Tristan is capable of posting if he continues to improve at the pace he was during this past season. Am I expecting TT to post those number? No, not really, but If I had to pick one of those stats he would match or exceed I’d day it would be the 9 rpg. Also, I don’t see how you or anyone thinks that it’s good for a team to miss the playoffs just to get a higher draft pick. This isn’t a shot at you or anything like that, but teams that continually lose year after year seem to stay in a rut like the Wizards have been in or meddle around in the middle of the pack each year like Milwaukee and Golden St. Plus, it’d be great to see playoff basketball return to Cleveland, even if it is for only two games and it’s always nice for young players such as Kyrie and the rest of the gang to get a taste of the playoffs.
Tsunami- I think you may be overrating Jamison a little bit. While he was a good teammate and a decent offensive threat while he played for the Cavs, he couldn’t guard a chair which significantly decreased his value to this team and will decrease his value for the Lakers this upcoming season, especially in the post-season when he may have to guard a talented PF like a Dirk or Griffin.
Nathan- I’m not quite sure that the Cavs have arguably the best players at PG and C among the 2-7 seeds, or that Waiters is the 2nd best shooting guard among the 2-7 seeds. I’m a huge fan of Kyrie’s, and I think he will eventually be the best PG in the NBA, but I don’t think that time will be next season. There are still plenty of all-star caliber PG’s in that small group of teams (D-Will, Rondo, D-Rose) that are still probably better than Kyrie. I know that Rose will be out for at least half of the season but I still feel that he should be included on that small list. The only position where the Cavs may have the best player among those teams is the C position even though Hibbert, and Lopez could be considered better than Andy. While I think Andy is more valuable to the Cavs than Hibbert and Lopez are to their respective teams, Hibbert and Lopez are more talented and have a higher ceiling than Andy does. When it comes to Waiters, I don’t think it’s fair to rank him against other NBA players when he hasn’t even played one meaningful game, so this is something that could be reassesed at the All-Star break. But with all of that being said, I do believe that the Cavs are capable for contending for as high as the 6th seed in the Eastern Conference behind Miami, Indiana, New Jersey, Chicago, and Boston.
I never bought that they were a playoff contender early in the season. Their schedule was very back loaded. It was a heavily condensed season and the Cavs were better rested early on than their opponents. In their first 13 games they only played three playoff teams. Did those thing contribute to their start? Probably.
Varejao going down and trading away Sessions exposed the absolute lack of depth. No playoff contenders had D-Leaguers playing meaningful minutes like the Cavs did. The depth should be slightly better this year.
I’m glad the Cavs didn’t take on a large contract this offseason. Other teams will be strangled by the luxury tax. The Cavs will probably be able to trade for a talented player next offseason if they don’t make a significant signing.
I see them being a lottery team again but they’ll improve slightly. They are still a really young team and still have depth issues. Gee would be the 8th or 9th best player on most playoff teams. He’s a top five player for the Cavs. I’d set the over/under at 29 wins and I’d take the over but not by much. Perhaps they’ll be the 5th or 6th worst team in the league this year. The Hornets, Warriors. Wizards and Kings all appear to have improved on paper. It took Durant and Lebron three years to make the playoffs, the same will hold true for Kyrie.
Has anyone noticed the anomaly going on in Minnesota. They will have 10 white guys on there team next year in a league where whites are probably 15%. I don’t think its a concerted effort or racism I just think its interesting. They will have Love, Rubio, Pekovic, Kirlenko, Ridnour, Shved, Stiemsma, JJ Barea (who isn’t Caucasian but still looks white) Robbie Hummel, and Chase Budinger. Now they are trying to trade for Andy. I know that at some point people will cry racism during any discussion over this anomaly but its still interesting.
@Cory- Yeah, people expect them to be an instant playoff team because the Cavs hit on Kyrie and got a superstar. The lone superstar factor isn’t the only deciding piece in the puzzle of how to make the playoffs. If it took Durant and Lebron that long to do it coming into the league, we need to be patient allow our expectations to be a bit more realistic. Can’t force too much pressure on these young guys and expect it to help.
Warren and Cory, Lebron in his second year got the Cavs to a tie for the 8th best record in the east and a winning record, if the Cavs got close to a .500 record in the weaker east they would most likely make the playoffs and at least qualify for my “legitimately competing for it” argument.
Now before you tell me Kyrie isn’t lebron (and he’s not) lebron also carried a team with the following players and their minutes played rankings during 04-05
2 Jeff McInnis
3 Zydrunas Ilgauskas
4 Drew Gooden
5 Eric Snow
6 Ira Newble
7 Robert Traylor
8 Lucious Harris
Now, I think the healthy Andy we saw last year is better than 04-05 Big Z, and I sure as hell expect our 3-8 group to be better than the putridness listed above. If they aren’t better by a significant margin, color me disappointed. If they are significantly better, but the gap between Kyrie and 2nd year Lebron is too big to be made up, color me disappointed. I got a lot of faith in what a high usage 50/40/90 type pg can do with even middling talent.
HoopsDogg:
The Hornets will be a ton better this year and might beat us for the 8th spot, but it should be at least a race. I wouldn’t pencil in the Knicks or the 76ers as neither did a lot to improve from shaky seasons last year. Either way, we have the talent to be as good or better than most of these teams. If that talent stays healthy and can’t compete with these middling clubs, we are further back than we aught to be.
The Hornets are in the west, Matt.
oh good. haha don’t know how I forgot that, at least they won’t out rebuild us in our own conference!
@Matt
I don’t even know what TT’s Summer league FT average was. Watching each game though, his stroke looked like total garbage again, after he really cleaned it up in the last part of the season. That is concerning, small sample size or not.
As fas as Gee v Miles is concerned. I will go on record again as to saying Miles quite an upgrade. If we are going to talk about how Gee was better when he had a good point guard, perhaps we should also note that Miles was better when D-Will was still on the Jazz. Gee is a better rebounder, but that is literally the only advantage that Gee has over Miles. Point per shot and all of that are definitely important as I am big on efficiency, but whatever advantage Gee has on that is small and also somewhat negated by his complete inability to dribble more than twice, and never having been asked to be 6 offensive spark.
I guess my biggest issue that I want people to understand is that Gee is NOT a great defender, or even a particularly good one. Miles is exactly the same age, just as athletic, plays D at the same level even though he hasn’t ever played it with super high intensity, and he has the ability to get hot, create his own offense and go for 40. Again, he is maddeningly inconsistent with his shot, but he, at least, provides a threat. I think his ceiling is much higher than Gee’s and they are the same age.
I like Gee and want him back, but regardless, I hope Miles gets more burn.
Tristan shot 61% from the field and rebounded well in summer league…given that, i don’t really care what percentage he shot from the line.
Again, i’m not sure why people are so bearish on the Cav’s playoff hopes. In the East, i expect them to be clearly superior to Charlotte, Detroit, Toronto, Orlando, and Atlanta
Probably superior to Washington, Philly, Milwaukee, and Chicago
Competitive with New York, Brooklyn, Indiana, and Boston
And of course inferior to Miami
Even if they lose out to all the teams i consider them competitive with, they’re still the 6th seed. For them to miss the playoffs entirely, some of three of Washington, Philly, Milwaukee, and Chicago would have to finish better than them…and i don’t see that happening.