I’m drenched in sweat. It’s humid and New York City smells terrible. I leave for work and instead of seeing families walking to school I see unhappy business men and women dressed in clothing far too constricting for the weather. Also, I can’t find an NBA game for the life of me.
That’s right folks, it’s the SUMMER! Sure, the NBA isn’t in season, but that doesn’t mean John, Kevin and I can’t chat about all that’s going on.
On this issue of Cavs: The Podcast Kevin Hetrick, John Krolik, and I discuss all the offseason fun, including the 2012 NBA Draft, the potential for an Andrew Bynum Trade, Alonzo Gee, and the Olympics.
Heads up, I had some technical difficulties at the beginning. Apologies.
As always, our podcasts can be found on iTunes at http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843 (there’s a slight delay here)
Or at soundcloud at http://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog
Enjoy!
Let it be known that Valanciunas is struggling mightily in the Olympics [based on what I'm reading]. He didn’t even score a single point against Tunisia and earned himself only 12 minutes even though he started. Can’t say I can name a single player on Tunisia. How’s he going to do well against NBA talent?
Whereas Thompson is currently tearing it up over in London right now huh? Apples and oranges Spots, apples and oranges.
Tristan looked good in Summer League play against teams that could easily beat Tunisia. Just sayin’
Westbrook is one of the most athletic NBA players ever. Yes, I understand that Waiters sneaked up on everyone’s draftboard in the same way, but if we want to compare him to a Thunder player, we should call him a right handed James Harden. He doesn’t have the great size that Harden has, and his stroke isn’t as far along, but he ability to play on ball and split the pick and roll is similar. Expect Kyrie to play off the ball a lot with the two of them in so we can utilize Kyrie’s great shooting ability and rest him from having to create at all times.
Boobie is a very solid player when he is allowed to play his role. With Kyrie and Dion, Boobie won’t have to play on ball much and can contribute his GREAT shooting and good defense. He is obviously an injury concern,but a healthy Boobie is a very productive niche player.
I’d rather have Pargo than Sloan, but would prefer neither of them get a minute of floor time.
I don’t want Kyrie playing off the ball too much. Getting to the rack and finishing is his bread and butter.
Ben,
I agree with your sentiments about Boobie and Pargo / Sloan, and mainly about Waiters.
The Waiters – Westbrook comparison I offered on draft day was somewhat intended as hyperbole, to pre-emptively rebut the “it’s the end of the world!! What have the Cavs wrought!!!” exaggerations that I anticipated. Certainly, if I was offered the bet, “want to put $100 on Dion Waiters being on the 2016 Olympic team?”…I would pass. So I guess any Westbrook comparisons are strained.
That said though, at the risk of continuing to dig a “Dion Waiters is the next Russ Westbrook” hole, that I really don’t intend to dig; which player does the following paragraph pertain to?
“Following a sophomore season that saw this young guard routinely positioned in the mid-to-late portions of the first round, he gradually crept up draft boards to a surprise selection at #4. Playing for a national powerhouse next to two established upperclassmen backcourt mates did limit his college numbers to some extent, but he put up quality offensive numbers thanks in part to a great ability to create and convert transition opportunities. While his defensive contributions are excellent, many question his status as a tweener; he is undersized for a shooting guard, but may not have the necessary skills to man the point.”
So the comparison isn’t totally about Waiters sneaking up draft boards. Anyways, Westbrook is a better athlete…Waiters is probably more complete offensively as a 20 year old. They’re different, but no two players are identical. I think there are enough similarities to use their names in the same sentence.
Rooting for team USA is really awkward simply because of the talent disparity. Would you root for this team if they played in March Madness 2012 or the Big East for a season?
It’s like rooting for a high school team to win the little league world series, or any other similar talent disparity you can think of.
It would be so much more entertaining to see Varejao/Nene/Barbosa or ANY of the other teams pull off the upset of the century. Brazil winning the gold would make me infinitely happier than the foregone conclusion.
@Matt yr damn right it’s apples and oranges cuz TT has played against, you know, actual NBA players for 66 games unlike Jonas. And TT has played in a summer league unlike Jonas. So, I agree let’s all stop comparing Jonas and TT. One has actually done something in the NBA and one has not…
@Matt – If TT was Lithuanian, he would be playing in London too. Your point makes no sense.
@R 100% agree. IF it weren’t for the gold medal race with China I wouldn’t be rooting for the US basketball team in men’s or women’s. I don’t like half the players and I always love to watch giants fall. So I awkwardly root for the US but know that I’ll actually be happier if they lose
Thompson probably will be playing in the Olympics in four years. There’s a pipeline coming out of Canada with Andrew Wiggins being the big ticket after Thompson, and Joseph. It’s ridiculous to compare Jonas and Tristan until we see both in the NBA…For a few years. Chad Ford said on the BS report that Jonas’ agent didn’t want him going to Cleveland so he wouldn’t commit on when Jonas would be able to come over to steer his client to Toronto.
I’m all for the 23 and younger rule because it would make Olympic basketball more compelling. Rooting for Team USA is like rooting for the Bellagio to take someone’s money. They’d still have three guys who can be over 23. Durant, Harden, Westbrook, Love, Griffin, Davis and Gordon are all 23 or younger. Throw in the three most needed guys who are over 23 (Lebron, Melo and Chandler) and you’d have most of the current roster). Then the World Cup of Basketball would be a major event.
I’m also fine with Waiters. He’s going to be a wild card here and there, but he can get to the rim and get buckets. I’d still rather have him than Barnes or Beal. Summer league doesn’t matter. It’s not a precursor to NBA success. The Cavs needed an irrational confidence guy. He’s a pittbull. They’ve been lacking that since chemically balanced Delonte four years ago.
@Kevin Hetrick,
The on paper comparisons between Westbrook and Dion make sense. But if you watch them play, they have totally different games. When making comparisons to predict future success, doesn’t it make a lot more sense to compare players with similar skill-sets on the floor? Perhaps people just haven’t really watched these guys play, or don’t quite understand the ridiculous, freaky nature of Westbrook’s game and athleticism. I am, in no way, dissing Dion in this situation. It just seems that comparing the two is about as useful as comparing Dion to a tweener 4/5, or tweener 3/4, who broke onto the scene late in the process. It’s a paper comparison. Dion and Russ just don’t play similar basketball.
@Kevin
Obviously Kyrie and the Cavs are best served with the ball in Kyrie’s hands. But we have seen time and time again that getting your best player and especially shooter off the ball at times both rests your best player without taking him off the floor and gives the defense an extra dimension to worry about. Every team needs at least 2 guys who can create on ball.
KJ, the argument that one has done something in the NBA and the other hasn’t means we should rate Hollins over Anthony Davis, and is thus a completely useless argument for projecting how players will do in the NBA. If you would take Hollins over davis then you have no business paying any attention to basketball.
Look, I’m not saying that Jonas will be better than Thompson, I’m just saying that he is actually playing for a competitive team so his minutes are getting limited (thompson wouldn’t get many minutes on a good NBA team at all, at least not with the 44% fg and 55% ft he put up last year). On the olympics its the same story. The difference, along with talent gap (though the Spanish league is the 2nd best league in the world), is also that Jonas puts up efficient numbers on offense and boards well defensively as opposed to offensively and is admittedly foul prone. It is impossible to say who is the better player right now or who will be the better player in the future, but opinions on either side have merit. Simply stating he hasn’t played, or his olympic minutes are limited (his numbers per minute are actually pretty good Scott, and I don’t actually think any summer league teams are better than any olympic qualifying teams Scott. For one, Olympic teams are actual teams that have team defense strategies and practice together, and two, the summer league teams would get beat by the USA all star team by 100 points every night.)
… isn’t a definitive proof of anything.
I think we’ll know who’s better between Jonas and TT by the mid part of next season. Based on stats alone I would take Jonas, but because TT has been playing NBA level competition then you have to give him some additional ‘padding’. The question nobody knows the answer to is how much do you add to NBA stats or take away from other league stats to actually ‘equalize’ the disparity in the different levels of talent two players are playing against. I would also say that there is a difference between an NBA player who plays mainly against second team players versus starters. My biggest ‘issue’ with trying to compare the two is that they play differnt positions and play in different systems. I like TT, but last year it seems that many of his best games came when he was playing a C. JJ Hicksons best games were at C, and I would have taken Jonas as our C last year in lieu of TT. But I think TT is the better fit for PF (go figure).
I think Waiters/Barnes will be up for discussion next year. Barnes clearly outplayed Waiters in summer league, not that it means a whole lot, but I wish instead Waiters looked better in summerleague.
While I want to give Grant’s plan a chance to evlolve and come to light and I understand we have to be patient. At the same time I’m dissapointed that we didn’t do more in free agency this year, let the TPE go to waste last year etc, (I understand we don’t want to overpay for talent and keep some cap flexibility). But sometimes not making any decision or move and just waiting can mean that your missing an opportunity. I think we’ll really ‘know’ how good of a GM Grant is in another two years when we look at how competitive the team is, but I think looking at TT -vs- JV and Waiter -vs- Barnes will give a lot of fuel to the fire for saying what type of Job Grant has done.
I wonder if TT would ever play for team Canada. Some day we could perhaps settle this debate.
Ben,
First, I understand you are not dissing Dion. In your original comment, you mentioned James Harden, which obviously cannot be construed as a bad thing.
I’ve watched a decent amount of Westbrook and a handful of Dion Waiters games though. I understand that Westbrook is fast and an explosive athlete, but coming out of school, both players were most effective taking the ball to the basket. Sure, Westbrook used awesome speed, while Waiters used shiftiness, solid ball handling, power, etc. But both were more effective going to the basket than shooting from range. According to draft express, both players used approximately 30% of their possessions in transition (isn’t that a similar skill?). Both players were lauded for their tenacity on defense, their impact on passing lanes, etc. Even their height and wingspan are within 1/2″ of each other. This isn’t like comparing Dion to a tweener 4 / 5. These are similarly sized sophomore guards that scored on comparable plays and were committed to defense while playing at powerhouse basketball programs. I know Westbrook is a freak athlete, but I still think there are reasonable similarities that can be drawn between the two players. I guess we just disagree on this.
Finally, I’m not sure if it makes “a lot more sense to compare players with similar skill sets”. Most models used to predict NBA success are results oriented, not skill oriented.
I love how Kevin is working so hard to qualify his remarks so that no one gets this impression that he actually thinks Waiters is the next Westbrook and our coach is calling him the next D wade…
Tsunami,
Coach Scott called me the next D. Wade?
Yeah which, no offense, but I’m not sure you rebound enough for the position to be in D Wade’s class
Just kidding…
I really like Waiters. Until he plays an actual NBA game though, I want to communicate reasonably tempered expectations. My strange compulsion to try to justify what I’ve previously written makes that difficult sometimes. Then I write long comments of minimal consequence, which eventually beget more long comments. It is a viscious cycle.
No I think it’s funny and somewhat alarming that a blogger is being so much more reasonable than the COACH.
Interesting article on JVs struggles:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-08-06/olympics-2012-jonas-valanciunas-toronto-raptors-lithuania-coach-kestutis-kemzura