Cleveland’s run in the Las Vegas Summer League is complete, and while Kyrie’s injury kept the team from complete dominance, they finished with an admirable 3 wins against 2 losses.
In their first game, playing against Charlotte’s full NBA roster (possibly not true), Cleveland lead most of the game before squandering the victory at the end. Tyler Zeller paced the team with 14 points and 5 rebounds on 63% true shooting. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist did not play, listed in the box score as “DNP – depression, drafted by Bobcats”.
In Cleveland’s second game, they edged a determined D-League Select group by a final score of 94 to 88. Samardo and T-Zell combined for 30 points and 14 rebounds, and dynamo Donald Sloan torched the second-leaguers for 19 points on 77% true shooting.
Next up, Cleveland disposed of a Phoenix Suns team that featured lottery picks from the last two years. The Cav bigs could not hold Markieff Morris in check, as he tallied 24 points and 17 rebounds. On the bright side, the young Cleveland big men were not reigned in either; Zeller rolled to a double-double, and Samuels netted 17 points while hitting all nine of his free throws. Through three games, the team posted a +41 while the slimmed-down third-year man played, versus a minus-24 while he sat.
In games four and five, Dion Waiters rested due to a minor knee injury. Against Minnesota, Kyrie missed a golden opportunity to remind everyone that he is the darling of the 2011 draft class. Derrick Williams lit Cleveland up for 23 points and Coby Karl got vengeance for Cleveland cutting him in 2009, by scoring eighteen. The Wolves won 78 to 65, as only Tristan and Samuels thrived, posting 30 combined points on 13 of 20 shooting.
Summer League ended with Cleveland dusting an overmatched Knicks team, 98 to 64. TT and TZ scored 25 total points in only 25 combined minutes, while Justin Holliday, Jrue’s older brother, chipped-in 12 points, 4 rebounds and 2 steals in 16 minutes.
So…three wins, two losses, and Samardo Samuels narrowly edges rookie Zeller for my team MVP vote…what does it all mean? It is folly to overvalue these summer league games, but here are a few thoughts:
Point Guard
Donald Sloan scored relatively frequently, and his twenty free throw attempts aided his 54% true shooting, but his nine assists and nine turnovers were not very point guard-ish. While still in the driver’s seat for 2012 – 2013 back-up duties; I hope Cleveland brings in some competition. Forty-four percent field goal shooting and a 1:1 assist-to-turnover ratio in Summer League does not cause me to forget that his PER was 9 last year. I still have my eye on undrafted University of Wisconsin rookie Jordan Taylor. He also shot poorly in Vegas, but racked up 14 assists and 4 turnovers, while Atlanta ended plus-13 with him running the show and minus-17 otherwise.
Wings
The Wine & Gold gave a little run to Garrett Temple and DJ Kennedy, the latter whom also briefly suited up during tank-a-palooza 2012. Neither shot better than 30% or seems likely to provide anything meaningful in real games.
Prior to injury, Dion Waiters paced the team in scoring and assists. He also shot 30% from the field, struggling with converting from all ranges while racking up several turnovers. I am not going to think too much into the successes or failures of any of these players during Summer League. Mr. Waiters surely relishes the opportunity to start proving himself in November. Plus, Baron Davis was impressed with Dion’s game, and there is no higher praise than that.
Justin Holiday garnered much positive press in Vegas, playing high intensity defense, leading the squad in steals, and knocking down 36% of his threes. Similar to Sloan though, I do not know if he did anything to disprove the prior knocks on his game; an inconsistent shooter, he also struggles to otherwise score, and his slight frame limits his ability as a defensive stopper. At 23 years old now, prior to his 6 points and 2 rebounds in 17 minutes per game this summer; in 45 games last season in Belgium, he averaged 7 points on 42% shooting, with 3 rebounds in 23 minutes per game. What do I know though…one year ago, I figured Alonzo Gee for a respectable, yet non-spectacular European career.
The Bobcats rescinded their qualifying offer to Derrick Brown on Wednesday…just saying.
Bigs
Certainly the strength of the Summer League team, the young trees presented themselves well. Tacking up pretty similar stat lines, in 43 combined minutes per game, Zeller and Samuels averaged 24 points and 14 rebounds on 59% true shooting. Samuels served as the major revelation, dropping lots of weight and looking significantly beefed up. Seeing Cleveland extend Harangody a qualifying offer but not himself, might have offered a wake-up call.
There is genuine excitement for the team’s big man rotation next year. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not, “55 wins – here we come” excitement, but more like “wow – we get to watch a roster of legitimate NBA players”. Varejao returns to health. The Cavs viewed Zeller as top-ten talent (and I agree). Tristan will be improved. Jon Leuer poses as a completely respectable fourth big man, and same story for Samuels in the five-slot. Kevin Jones may be a sleeper and Luke Harangody…well, he waves a mean towel.
Summary
One hundred more days until the regular season starts. Based on all accounts, Kyrie looked amazing working out with the Olympic team this summer. The roster includes a legitimate NBA big man rotation. Waiters, Gee, Gibson, Casspi and Walton…OK, the wings still need work, but next year continues to look like another step forward for Ohio’s favorite NBA team.
I’m not trying to be provocative but did you watch each and every game? Cuz I feel like unless one watched the games, one cannot really get the feel for each players performance. For example, I feel as if Sloan, Holiday and Waiters all played better than yr round-up indicates. For example, the amount of assists lost to Dion and Sloan due to poor hands and poor finshes by many of the players and the propensity for heavy fouling underneath in the Summer League, was not insignificant. So their assist numbers look poor but they *played* better than that. And Holiday looked like anything but an “inconsistent shooter.”
Conversely I don’t think Zeller played quite as well as you portray (and how bout Henson, eh? Haha!) in yr round-up. His 1st 2 games were very good but he slowed down a lot after that and struggled with finishing and his shot. He did, however, still rebound. But at no point did I think “there’s a Top Ten talent.” But to be fair, I was in general quite pleased with our big guys.
Anyway, overall lots of reason for optimism, i’d say! And that’s without seeing Jones and Leuer play!
Kj,
Was I that hard on Waiters? he lead the team in scoring and assists, he shot 30% from the field, he hurt his knee. That’s pretty much the sum total of what I said about him, and I think each of these things is true.
Holiday shot 11 three-pointers…you can’t call anyone a consistent shooter based on that sample size.
I guess my main point about Sloan is that I am not ready to hand him the back-up point guard duties next year.
Does Summer League typically end up as a great predictor of NBA success or failure?
This is for M. Curry and all the other TT haters: https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/ChrisMannixSI/status/227070788946239489
Any chance Gibson grew 4 inches during the offseason? no? darn…
Well, first of all you didn’t answer my question and secondly, you seem to be kind of missing my point. *Watching* Waiters split double-teams and showing off a FAR SUPERIOR handle that I and most everyone else didn’t know he had made his shooting numbers less of a concern. Ya feel me? And Sloan looked very comfortable handling the ball and showed an aggressive drive to the hoop we did not see much last year.
And your last question is silly! Of course we all know the answer to that! But what the hell else we gonna talk about on here in late July?? Haha! Come on!
Kj,
I was a big Waiters fan pre-draft. He was a great pick and roll player in college and solid at attacking the basket. He had a great assist to turnover ratio…he’s a really good player with borderline PG skills. I didn’t need 90 minutes of summer league action to confirm those things.
A good handle is nice, but how many double teams is he going to have to split in the regular season? The Cavs drafted him because he was a high-efficiency player, so I reserve the right to be disappointed when he shows little efficiency in the summer league. Obviously, though, summer league is not at all predictive of regular season success, so I am still optimistic about Waiters-Irving being the best backcourt in the NBA in two or three years (unless there’s a trade, this actually seems like a strong possibility, right? I’m not counting Harden, as he comes off the bench).
Jordan Taylor is going to light nothing up, but if you want a leader and floor general with about ZERO mistakes (NCAA all-time assist-to-turnover leader) while the other guys put the biscuit in the basket, there’s your guy. and he’s going to be on the cheap. he was a projected top 15 a year ago, then had a mediocre senior year and was not drafted.
What did everyone think of Tristan’s performance? I was horrified by his first two games, when he was losing the ball and generally looking inept, but he looked good in his last two. He seemed to have a little bit of a better idea of what to do on the offensive end, although the ball still seemed to stop whenever it came to him. Overall, he looked more comfortable and more capable of making an impact on the game.
Not to hate on Kevin or anything, but I would assume he didn’t watch much of the games.
Samuels got a ton of garbage buckets without really doing anything of note. I was actually really disappointed that he didn’t really post anybody up. Sure, he is slimmed down, and actually has developed a decent midrange J, but he seems to have lost his aggression on the block.
I thought Zeller showed a lot. He too, didn’t do too much from the block except in the select team game, but his jumper is pretty damn reliable. He might be able to immediately provide Big Z like production as a rookie. I think he and Andy should start up front.
TT showed some nice finishes on one or two dribble drives to the middle with each hand. His improved free throw motion from the end of last season has been totally lost as his shot is about as flat as possible. Not a great sign. He also didn’t look to be in great shape. Not a great showing in general, but he was clearly working on some specific skills.
Waiters’ shot wasn’t on, but I understand the Wade comparisons now. He just looks the same on the court. Same body language and way of dribbling etc. He did make some great splits, but his passing after needs to be more accurate. He will provide Kyrie many opportunities to spot up off the ball and with Kyrie’s great shooting ability, we will have a great way to keep him on the floor for bigger minutes without tiring him out too much.
I really don’t like Sloan’s game. He frequently passes up easy passing opportunities so he can get his own layup. He finished well enough in Summer league, but those same attempts often get swatted against real help D. His Jumper is still awful. I would be very surprised if we go into the season with him backing Kyrie up.
Holiday really flashed. Well, as much as any of our wing guys did anyway. Speaking of wings, how did Jeffrey Taylor fall so far in the draft. That kid is going to be great playing next to MKG for the next 6 years or so. Really impressed by him… oh well, not a Cav…
Leuer is better than Samuels, Luke, or Jones. Look for him to get whatever minutes aren’t sucked up by our top 3. It is very rare for a 5th big to really get minutes.
We still need a 3 and D guy desperately. I was watching most of the Summer league, and didn’t really see anybody stick out who wasn’t already securely on their own team. He doesn’t play D really, but I would almost think about Morrison. He was pretty darn efficient on the offensive end.
I still think Delfino is the way to go at the 3. He does check out at times, but he can be quite good defensively, has decent handle, and while not a great 3 point shooter, is always around 36 percent.
@James: I can’t remember who was getting interviewed court side in one of the later games, but they said that Tristan apparently had a bum ankle he injured in practice, and the first few games he kept reaggrivating it. Which makes sense, since he didn’t seem to show much of any explosion until later in the week.
@James…I agree that Thompson looked more comfortable on offense. There was almost a “Dream Shake” move in his last game.
Ben,
I agree that Leuer is better than Samuels, etc. His addition, and the fact that the team won’t be relying night-in and night-out on the others is a cause of my “excitement”.
I still like Derrick Brown. He’s not a “3″ guy, but is athletic and plays D. The Cavs could use more size at the wing. As far as shooting goes; Kyrie and Boobie are really good, Gee and Casspi are 35 and 36% for their careers. Waiters exhibited NBA range at Syracuse. Zeller and Leuer can spread the flor. I still think size may be more beneficial than shooting at the wing for the immediate time being.
Oh, we do have somebody covering summer league, not just fantasizing about trades that’ll never happen. Good. I knew this blog was good for something. Thanks Kevin, kj and ben!
Well, Kevin if ya woulda, ya know, actually watched you woulda seen that Waiters is more than borderline PG. and Nathanhe wasn’t splitting double-teams, he was splitting defenders in the pick ‘n roll. Almost amazingly. He will be doing that a TON in the NBA. Oh and if y’all watched the games maybe ya would’ve heard the asst. GM for the Cavs talk about how they drafts Waiters because like Kyrie he can score and set-up teammates. He said the NBA game is now dependent on aging multiple players on the floor who can breakdown defenders and find open teammates and Waiters showed that ability in spades, despite his jumper being do off.
And for you questioning TT, did ya read that tweet Mannix posted that I linked to? It named TT as one if the guys Mannix heard most about from scouts in Vegas as being impressive. Just sayin’…
Btw, is it too early for me to take my victory lap for my John Henson love-fest pre-draft??? Bwhahaha!
Kj,
I don’t know why you are giving me a hard time about Waiters. Pre-draft, I ranked him as a high lottery pick. The day before the draft, one of my four favorite scenarios involved drafting Waiters AND Zeller (did anyone else have that?). After the draft, I went to the near-extreme of bringing up Russ Westbrook with regards to Waiters.
The facts I stated in this article have little to do with my thoughts on Waiters.
And yes, it is too early for you to take a John Henson related victory lap.
Kj is such a freaking homer. Chill out dude, its summer league. Yes, despite watching Henson tear up D-Leaguers, it is still too early for any victory lap. Also, no one has ever heard of this Mannix guy, so the fact he literally says nothing about TT besides that he impressed, doesn’t mean much at all.
And Kj, we all know what waiters is supposed to be good at, the fact that he looked good doing it against D leaguers doesn’t make up for the fact that he still got poor results against guys that won’t make NBA rosters. So overally, you’d expect the 4th pick in the draft to do more than just play poorly while looking good doing so. Its summer league tho, so again making too much out of it would be stupid.
I’m not surprised Waiters was out of shape. His draft strategy was to work out for no one, and rely on his advanced metrics and his agents to get him drafted. It worked. Why would you work out if you were going to risk getting hurt? The archives are full of guys who stunk in summer league, and then lit it up, and vice versa. I think the only positives I’m taking away from summer league is that Zeller is a player with a lot of tools, and SmardTO might be serviceable next year. And yeah, a wing would be nice, preferably one who can shoot, but I’m ok with rolling with who we have until “win now” mode arrives (which could be soon).
I think there’s two things to note about Waiters summer league performance. First, his shot wasn’t falling, but he got to the rim pretty easily, especially against Phoenix. Second, he did that while being out of shape and over-weight. It’s a good sign for when he is in shape.
TT looked pretty comfortable handing the ball and posting. I was really hoping that he would take more jump shots outside of the paint. I think I only saw one. Perhaps he did against NY. I didn’t see that game.
I’m glad Zeller showed some range on his shot. It will help to create space for TT if he is going to stay in the paint.
First of all, the Henson thing was a joke. Secondly, Matt, Mannix writes for Sports Illustrated. Ever heard of it? Thirdly, Mannix was relaying what he heard SCOUTS say about TT, not what he himself thought. Big dif, no? And lastly, I reject this meme that Waiters “played poorly!” That’s what I’m trying to say and evidently am not making myself understood here. Dion SHOT poorly, he did not PLAY poorly. My whole point is if ya watched him pay every minute, you’d get that. My problem w/Kevin’s wrap-up is it is seemingly only based on stats and thus has no context. And stats with no context are basically useless. Am I clear?
Kj,
I understood the Henson thing as a joke. My “it’s too early for a victory lap” response was tongue-in-cheek. Also, I think you are reading something into my post as it relates to Dion that isn’t there. I say he struggled with converting from all ranges and turned the ball over several times. Context or not, he shot 30% and lead the team in turnovers. Those things are facts. I never said he “played poorly”, and even if he did, I wouldn’t be that concerned about it. To paraphrase a great basketball philospher:
“I know it’s important, I honestly do, but we’re talking about Summer League. We’re talking about Summer League, man. We’re talking about Summer League. We’re not talking about the real games; we’re talking about Summer League. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you’ve seen me play right, you’ve seen me give everything I’ve got, but we’re talking about Summer League right now. I hear you, it’s funny to me to, hey it’s strange to me too, but we’re talking about Summer League man, we’re not even talking about the game, when it actually matters, we’re talking about Summer League.”
That is how I feel about any discussion of Dion Waiters’s play this summer.
KJ, no. Not a big diff. One of hundreds of reputable sports writers mentions his anonymous sources/scouts think generically that Thompson has impressed this summer, does not mean much at all. It certainly means less that what I could glean of film/stats about him in 5 summer league games, and even that doesn’t mean much.
Regardless of what Dion Waiters looked like in the games (And I heard there were many times that he got blown by on defense thinking there was a zone behind him) he shot %30 from the field. For a guy known as a scorer, that is horrendous. It very well could be that they were good shots that he would make much more often in a larger sample size, but given the sample, it can’t be called anything other than a poor performance. Shooting is a gigantic part of PLAYING when it comes to basketball, and its not like it was just his jumper that was off as he was equally bad around the rim. The Context was, against D-Leaguers with no shot at an NBA rosters, he was settling for jumpers, and unable to finish/get to the rim often enough to shoot better than 30%, is that clear?
I’m not saying the man is a scrub and destined to fail, again, tiny sample size without having Kyrie next to him. I’m still confidant he can look pretty special on the cavs. But sports are a game of stats, scoring is one of the more important ones, and efficient scoring is highly important in Basketball. Its a big big part of the story, its a large percentage of how you judge how well someone played. If Dion repeated the same outcomes for the whole year, he’d be known as Dion’s Expiring Contract. Thats not going to happen, but obviously everyone thought/hoped he’d perform better than he did. The fact that he could blow by d-leaguers in the pick and role surprised no-one. If he couldn’t have at least shown that ability, it would be serious cause for concern, as that is mostly what we drafted him for, was his ability to penetrate and score/dish.
Kevin, I meant to exclude you from the joke explanation; I knew you got it and were responding in kind…and it was not you but Matt (and Terry Pluto) who said Waiters played “poorly.” Sorry for the confusion.
And Matt, well, let’s see here, you didn’t watch the games but you know more than the scouts do and More than I do, an admitted homer who watched every SECOND of each Cavs summer league game, eh? Well, how can I argue against that? You win…might I suggest you take your omnipotency to some other blog? We should share with others the wisdom we’ve been so lucky to receive from you all this time. Godspeed!!
Btw, I think I was right about TRob too!! Hahaha!
EVERYONE shot horribly in Summer league. Most games were in the 30s. I’m pretty convinced Summer League means NOTHING. I like typing in ALL CAPS when I want to MAKE A POINT.
I HEARD THAT.
Kj, sorry to be a prick. All i’m saying is that personally I would have hoped for better efficiency from Dion against scrubs. but I didn’t watch the whole games just highlights. No one gave rave reviews, and I was not surprised to hear that he could dribble drive off a pick and role. This left me overall disappointed but not worried about the future, just like Kyrie’s injury. Maybe if I had seen all of the games it would be different.
Still. 30%??? haha and I assume TRob is a joke right? hard to hear sarcasm.
I can’t help but think that a lot of people are just reading too much into what the Cavs did in summer league. The growing of this team is still in it’s infancy and many are trying to predict future track stars from first baby steps. Kyrie was a rare major exception who earned a Nike contract in his baby shoes. Waiters, Zeller, TT, Samuels and Gee are all moving in the right direction but it will be awhile before we know what they really are…or are not.
When you argue that he didn’t play poorly…does that mean you would be happy if he plays the same way in the regular season? I sure wouldn’t. I’m sure Dion would agree that his performance in the last week was far below his standards, and there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that fact.
…For the record, Mannix is very well known and a good writer.
Sorry to derail the thread…
@KJ
You posted this in response to my worry that Bynum might get Scott fired because of his poor work ethic…
“Btw, I said this in the other thread and that is that 2 sources said Bynum and Scott have a relationship and it is a good one. So let’s not deal in this “he won’t play for a taskmaster like Scott” BS, ok? Carry on…”
In case you haven’t read this by now…
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/07/cavaliers_coach_byron_scott_sa.html
Richard Late-Going Irrelevant to the topic FACT SMAAAAAAAAASH
Along those lines, WKNR recently had an interview with John Ireland, the Lakers radio play-by-play man. He had some interesting comments about Bynum coming to and staying in Cleveland.
http://www.espncleveland.com/page.php?page_id=109
Scuzz with another fact smash. If John Ireland thinks hes a workaholic, I guess I’m on board.
Thanks for the link to the Ireland interview. Interesting take.
Haha! Yeah, I saw that and I can say in my meager defense is that I read 2 different sources claim Byron and he had a good relationship. I can only go by what I see, as a famous former Clevelander once said…
Not to beat a dead horse but I want to share this post from Fear The Sword cuz the guy, who was in Vegas and watched each Cavs game, comes to almost exactly the same conclusions I did watching every minute of the Cavs games:
http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/7/22/3175726/cleveland-cavaliers-summer-league-wrap-up#storyjump
Btw, this guy also tweeted about how Dion got to the bucket in the summer league so well. Granted it is a SUPER small sample size but he found that if Waiters did that in the regular season he would be behind only Wade and T Evans in getting to the bucket. Now, he did not finsh all that great percentage-wise but I think lot of factors are at play there (weight, knee and ankle, bad summer league officiating not calling fouls that would be called in regular season, teams collapsing cuz no Kyrie on the floor, etc.). My point is that the guy showed an elite skill; getting to the bucket. I cannot been be down or think he played poorly. He shot poorly but showed a great feel for playmaking and an elite talent getting to the hoop. In other words, the 2 things the Cavs absolutely drafted him to do!!!