IT’S HERE!
iTunes link: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cavs-the-podcast/id528149843 (it’ll take some time for the podcast to appear on here)
SoundCloud link: http://soundcloud.com/cavstheblog/0008-the-draft-pt-1
The eagerly anticipated draft podcast has finally arrived (sorry it took so long!)
It’s slightly dated, as we recorded it on Monday (we talk about a potential trade for Okafor) but I think we cover some interested ground, especially on the topics of the fourth pick, potential trades, and Jared Sullinger.
I’m pretty sure we’re going to record a second podcast the night or two before the draft, and we’ll likely follow that up with a post-draft podcast too.
Enjoy!
Any info on how these workouts are going or are they all closed doors stuff? Intrigued to know how they ranked against one another.
Jorge,
Beal outplayed Barnes is one report I saw.
Just a point about Barnes and his rebounding. I’m not saying that he’s a great rebounder, but I don’t look at it as a point of concern for him. He was the third-leading rebounder behind two potential other lottery picks on a team that led the NCAA in rebounding. Pretty okay for an SF, I think.
If you can really trade Andy and 24 for 7, think you need to pull that trigger. As much as we like Andy you can’t ignore the injury concerns. He has a reckless style of play that leads to these injuries and if he tries to protect himself to stay healthy it will take away from his effetiveness. If Beal is there I like Beal at 4 and PJ3 at 7 because that is 2 potential “stars.” I don’t like Drummond at 4 and a J. Lamb at 7 because I don’t think either of these two players will be stars. Drummond has a chance, like PJ3, but I think Lamb is a role player not a stud. Would 7 and releasing our rights to Sacramento’s pick get us 5?
@DJW
I get your point about Andy and the injuries, but I’m not sure you can blame this last one on him. Drew Gooden slammed his wrist trying to get the ball loose. Also, If they did make the trade, you’d probably have to grab Drummond at 4. He might not slip past Portland.
Jeff,
MKG played with two lottery bound front court mates and out-rebounded his power forward. Shooting guard Reggie Bullock out-rebounded Barnes while playing with the same two front court players.
As big, fast, strong and explosive as Barnes is; the fact that he doesn’t rebound is a concern.
@Kevin
Or, it could show that MKG plays closer to the basket than Barnes. That’s certainly the case on offense. On defense, you’d have to look at game film. If MKG is guarding someone in the paint, where Barnes is guarding someone on the wing, that could skew the numbers. It might go a little deeper than just numbers. What was Barnes asked to do by his coach?
Not to say that Barnes is the rebounder that MKG is. But that there could be a reason for his numbers being lower than expected.
@kevin
On ESPN I think Barnes has less rpg than Reggie, but I think i get your point. However, I don’t see how MKG being a strong rebounder makes Barnes a weaker rebounder in an absolute sense. Don’t get me wrong, I have Barnes solidly behind beal, mkg, and drummond, I just don’t get where the ‘he doesnt rebound’ is coming from (unless you just mean he doesn’t rebound at an elite level). Is there something behind his five rebounds a game that doesn’t show up in the stats?
Ps. Sorry for any typos, this is from my phone
Where’s Krolik?
I guess another way to ask the question is how many rebounds would you like to see a game from a prospect who’s not primarily valued as a defensive/rebounding specialist? It’s doesn’t seem like a particular strength for Barnes, but i (someone who hasn’t spent nearly as much time as yourself evaluating prospects) don’t really see where its a glaring weakness either.
Recently (ok, 5 minutes ago), I started to come around a little on picking Robinson at 4. Now obviously if Beal or MKG are there, take either of them, but it wouldn’t be a complete disaster selecting Robinson if they believe he’s the BPA. The part where I will lose some people is that we might be really successful playing TT at center and TRob at PF.
Look at some of the center prospects in this draft, Zeller and Leonard. When looking at standing reach and vertical reach, what I consider to be the most important numbers when looking at a big man’s height (basically how high can you touch on the ground and when jumping). TT actually performs better than both of those players and other established pros like Al Horford, and in the range of combo PF/Cs like Nene, Noah, and Bosh. If TT can continue to gain muscle, we could get past many teams (but not a Howard/Bynum, etc led team) with him at C.
So yes, while it would be a smallish lineup, it’s not out of the realm of possibility to have a successful tandem of TT/TRob as long as we have some “true” centers coming off the bench- Festus Ezeli, anyone?
To Reb – Where’s Krolik…ever? Hahaha.
Scuzz and Jeff,
I think MKG defends the opponents best perimeter scorer typically, whether it’s a 1, 2 or 3, so he may spend more time away from the basket than Barnes on defense. Whatever the case, I don’t think there’s any debate that MKG is the more hustle-oriented player and hence, gets more rebounds, 50/50 balls, etc.
Barnes is a below average rebounder. Looking at the 12 small forwards in the draft express database that are likely to be drafted in 2012, he ranks 10th for per 40 minute pace adjusted defensive rebounding. And I don’t know if any coach tells their small forward that it’s not their job to defensive rebound.
Really though, my concern with Barnes isn’t just the rebounding – it’s the assists, the blocks, the relatively inefficient scoring…his numbers are pretty hollow.
He’s really strong, fast, young, shoots reasonably well; there is a lot to like, but I’m not completely on-board the Harrison Barnes experience. I’ll stick with my top-40 NBA player prediction. A very good player, but most years, not an all-star.
AlexS,
To build on your point…
Regarding picking Robinson, let’s say the Cavs have Thompson, Robinson, “future unknown quality 7-footer” (FUQ7F) and “future unknown 7-footer who’s kind of sort of adequate” (FU7FWKOSOA).
In a normal game against normally sized front courts, the Cavs could start Robinson and “FUQ7F”. They would both play 30 – 36 minutes, as would Thompson off the bench. Thompson would play 15 minutes at center while “FUQ7F” rested, typically matched up against the opponent’s back-up center. Against the Dwight Howard’s and Andrew Bynum’s of the world, or in the case of foul trouble, maybe FU7FWKOSOA sees 10 minutes a game.
Obviously that is not draft day plan A (MKG or Beal for me), and also I am slightly warming to Drummond, but is the scenario above that bad? Does it say you’ve given up on Tristan?
Those answers certainly seem like “no’s” to me, assuming people agree that Robinson is one of the best 2 or 3 players in the draft.
Kevin,
Are you slightly warming to Drummond because MKG and Beal could be gone by #4?…lol
Scuzz,
I’m starting to fully embrace what a unique athlete that Drummond is. I have him fifth on my board…so yeah, if MKG and Beal were gone and the Cavs already have a PF…
the “risk vs reward” pick seems tolerable.
Sam Amick described Thomas Robinson as having destroyed Drummond in their Cavs workout. Chad Ford doesn’t even have Drummond as a Cavs candidate for #4. Given both their reputable histories, I don’t see the big D in a cavs uniform any time soon.
PS Is Justin Long guest hosting these podcasts? One you sounds remarkably like him.
Haha Slim, do you mean me or Ryan? I’ve been hosting ‘em all year long.
After looking up Justin Long’s voice, it’s gotta be Ryan.
Oh wow – if we somehow picked T Rob I would just lose it. And not because I don’t think he’s a great player, but because of this:
Cavs trade JJ Hickson (a young athletic power forward that does stupid things) for Omri Casspi (a less young, less athletic hybrid forward that can’t shoot)
Cavs draft Tristan Thompson ( a young, athletic power forward that can’t score) and decide not to take legit center Jonas V.
Cavs draft Thomas Robinson (a young, athletic power forward that is slightly undersized)
That’s 3 underwhelming jumping bean power forwards the cavs will have invested in in less than 2 years while HAVING ANDERSON VAREJAO (their best player who on offense plays PF).
That will be a travesty. They could have kept Hickson, signed Jonas, and drafted an electric wing. Then you have KI, Gee/Electric Wing, Gee/Electric Wing, Hickson/Varejao, Jonas going forward. That is a YOUNG ATHLETIC TEAM where no one is out of position or undersized. Now we are looking at, KI, Gee, Casspi, Thompson/Varejao/T-Rob, Samardo Samuels. Which team do you want?
And don’t give me this garbage about not needing a true center. That’s a great point, when your SG is the greatest rim protecting guard in the history of the NBA, your small forward is the greatest rim protecting SF in the history of the NBA, and everyone knows how to rebound. Small teams get beat by big teams most of the time, see 2009 Magic vs 2009 Cavs.
JJ Hickson has been a below average offensive player throughout his career (see his PER during periods other than his meaningless stretch with Portland) and a terrible defensive player. The Cavs believe TT will be much better than an “underwhelming jumping bean power forwards” given his athleticism and work ethic. JV is a unknown commodity in the NBA. Varejao is 29 and has never played more than 32 minutes a game.
Other than overlooking these obvious facts, your rant against the Cavs makes perfect sense.
Ryan sounds like Long. John Krolik, on the other hand, sounds nonexistent.
I am not big on Robinson, because he’s basically TT with a few more years of college development. Redundancy…
I’m not big on Drummond, because even in a backcourt-driven offense AND with TT’s improved free throw shooting, I’m not sure it’s a great idea to add another front court shooter who shot SUB 30% in college…even worse than what TT was shooting.
I would love to get the 7, and I say if you can trade Varejao and the 24 or the 33 for it, you have to do it…but NOT until draft day. The Cavs won’t compete for anything meaningful for 3-4 years even if everything goes well, and at that point AV isn’t going to be contributing in all likelihood. If there’s someone the Cavs value highly sitting there at 7 on draft day, you have to make the offer and hope they take it at that point.
Tom Pestak,
Did you read my theory on TT, TRob and two seven footers on the roster? TT plays 15 minutes a game at center, primarily guarding the opposing back-up? Perhaps you have and just disagree, but I think TRob and TT could co-exist without leaving the team painfully small.
Hickson’s a bum. I wanted Valanciunas but am putting it behind me.
Pete,
Also, with regards to TT and TRob being redundant, I don’t agree. Robinson was the NCAA’s best defensive rebounder this year, while TT lags there. TT is a very good basket defender, which TRob is not. Robinson has a developing jump shot, including making 7 of 14 threes this year and 70% of his free throws. Thompson obviously is a limited in this regard.
Also for what it’s worth, Thompson is 4 days older than Robinson. I thought that was interesting.
I keep arguing a point that I don’t care to argue, as I don’t want the Cavs to draft Robinson…but, if Cleveland thinks he’s the best player available; I think it can work.
Also I like Varejao and think Cleveland should keep him for three more years, but as far as what 19, 20 or 21 year old the team picks; Andy should have little to do with the decision.
Ok, listen to this idea:
so the Bobcats are supposedly considering TRob or Barnes at 2, so here’s a scenario
1. Davis
2. TRob or Barne
3. Beal
4. MKG!!!
but it doesn’t end there… the Cavs then do that Warriors deal for no 7. Trading Andy and No 24.
5. TRob or Barnes
6. Drummond or Lillard or Lamb or someone
7. Jeremy Lamb
Now the Cavs have probably the best developmental backcourt seen in a long time with Kyrie, Lamb, and MKG and a super young crazy athletic Tristan. Just the thought of watching this team play is amazing to me. obviously there is a hole at center, but maybe the Cavs can find someone in the second round to help out.
lineup:
1: Kyrie
2: Lamb
3: MKG
4: Tristan
5: Samardo or Semih
Role players:
Gee
Omri
Boobie
Harris
Draft pick 33
Draft pick 34
assuming they don’t resign Jamison or AP.
Would be a fun team to watch right?
[I'm a needlessly spiteful person and probably not fun to be around.]
@travis that’s an awfully negative comment. Not sure why you would post that. I’m sure your life choices present much more successful decisions.
I like your thinking Darryl.