ESPN Insider Chad Ford says NO told #Cavs no thanks when CLE reportedly offered Nos. 4, 24, 33 and 34 for No. 1. Can’t blame ‘em for trying.
I mean, obviously. Word is the Cavs are exploring their options as far as dealing the fourth pick (perhaps in a package that includes their 24th and/or two second-round selections) to move either down (the Blazers have the 6th and 11th picks) or up (the Bobcats might be willing to deal the 2nd pick). Hearsay is all we have at our disposal, really. It seems logical to me that the Cavs would look to move somewhere in this draft. If they want Barnes or Lamb, like some have surmised, then they can probably still get one of them with a lower selection, and if they’re set on getting Beal or MKG (especially MKG), they’ll likely have to move up.
I like it. Now I am not sure if Davis is exactly worth more than what they offered, but it is a ballsy move. That is what I am most pleased with. The fact that the Cavs are willing to go out and make some offers and see what happens. It shows that they are going to continue on their path of trying to make things happen. GO CAVS.
Grant is in a really tough spot here. I personally would like to see a scenario where we use number 4 on either MKG, Barnes or Beal (hopefully the ‘Cats take Robinson)…then make a trade to move from 24 into the teens and find some talent there (Ross or Lamb maybe). As long as such a move could be made without moving Varejao…that would be a deal breaker.
Glad to see they’re staying active
I’ve said all along that the Cavs should consider doing just about whatever it takes to add Anthony Davis. If the Bobcats had won the lottery they might have had a chance. NOLA just might be too hard of a nut to crack.
If the Cavs did indeed make that offer they will probably revisit the Hornets with a modified one. I’m thinking that offering that many picks in one draft to a team that already has two lottery picks is a plan that was doomed to failure from it’s conception. Reworking that offer to take on bad contracts (Okafor, Ariza) and adding multiple #1′s over several years might have more appeal to NOLA. Davis could be the perfect complement to Kyrie, forming a two star core for years to come. Letting the Hornets dump contracts and giving them the #4 this year and the Cavs own first rounder next year plus dangling another late or future 1st rounder or two and there would be a buzz coming from the hive. It would be worth it to pair the two best players from back to back drafts. They just need to find an offer that would appeal to NOLA’s management. The Cavs have so many draft picks accumulated they could still have more than the normal complement of draft picks on a yearly basis for several years. That can be true even if they gave up as many as four 1st rounders.
I, for one, like that they are exploring every opportunity, but I didn’t like that trade. We have too many holes to fill and I would rather have 2 really solid players from this draft to play with Kyrie than 1 – we can hope to use some of our extra picks to move up mid-first round. I guess if Davis turns out to be Dwight Howard like eventually, I would be wrong, but think about the other players available. Would you rather have Anthony Davis and just hope that some mid-high level FA’s end up signing with us who are not at the end of their careers? We have seen that we should never book on it, no matter how many FA’s come out next year and how much cap room we have. Or, would you rather have MKG and a legitimate 7′ center? I still say that we will never make much noise in the playoffs if we start Varajeo at center. I like the centers in this draft and I think I would rather have a wing and a center than another power forward who will play the position that Varajeo really should be playing.
I would rather trade away some of those Heat picks in the future, and keep a second pick in this draft.
The Cavs would be selling their house for a Ferrari if this trade actually went down, I’m not sure I’d be too happy with that deal if it was accepted. But hey, maybe they figure we already have a great driver (Kyrie) for that Ferrari and management feels comfortable taking that combo to the races (okay, done with the metaphors here). I just think there’s far too much risk involved in something like that, never know if a #1 pick can suffer the same fate poor Greg Oden did.
But it shows Chris Grant has some serious balls, and in that aspect I like that the trade was proposed. The more I think about it, the less enamored I am with picking at #4. It’s not a glamorous position considering the prospects, which worries me that other teams are feeling the same sentiments. But hopefully Chris Grant continues to reveal his enormous juevos to other teams and eventually someone will bite on a rock solid deal (sorry, couldn’t help myself).
I would be all for this trade. Davis is the only sure star from the upcoming draft, and I think we should kick around throwing verajoa (as much as I love the guy and in no way think we should be looking to move him just to move him) along with a couple 1st rounders and taking back ariza or okafer to get him. He complements Kyrie and Tristan very well (has some range, d boards, finished in transition, and can never go wrong with exceptional D) and would give us a bonafide core for the future, along with still having plenty of upcoming draft picks ( i obviously don’t want to give them verajoa and every draft pick for 3 years, there is a limit as to what I’d give for him but its high)
This draft will produce multiple stars, but whether those stars are MKG, Beal, Lamb, Drummon, Robinson, Perry Jones, or whoever else no one really knows. The only one we know will be in that group, barring career threatening injury, is Davis. And personally I don’t just think he’ll be a star, but a 1st ballot hall of famer. Big guys like him just don’t move the way he does, don’t hit free throws like he does, and don’t have the a completely team first attitude he displays, don’t have the feel for the game he has. He’s the total package. We should be saying Kyrie would complement him very well.
I would be all for this trade. Davis is the only sure star from the upcoming draft, and I think we should kick around throwing verajoa (as much as I love the guy and in no way think we should be looking to move him just to move him) along with a couple 1st rounders and taking back ariza or okafer to get him. He complements Kyrie and Tristan very well (has some range, d boards, finished in transition, and can never go wrong with exceptional D) and would give us a bonafide core for the future, along with still having plenty of upcoming draft picks ( i obviously don’t want to give them verajoa and every draft pick for 3 years, there is a limit as to what I’d give for him but its high)
This draft will produce multiple stars, but whether those stars are MKG, Beal, Lamb, Drummon, Robinson, Perry Jones, or whoever else no one really knows. The only one we know will be in that group, barring career threatening injury, is Davis. And personally I don’t just think he’ll be a star, but a 1st ballot hall of famer. Big guys like him just don’t move the way he does, don’t hit free throws like he does, and don’t have the a completely team first attitude he displays, don’t have the feel for the game he has. He’s the total package. We should be saying Kyrie would complement him very well.
I like that idea of trying to move up our #24 pick.
Another possibility is trying to add the Hornets #10 pick, the Blazers #11 pick ,the Rockets #16 pick, or the Celtics #22 pick. They are all looking to move one of their picks for a young player. Would any of those teams take a signed-and-traded Gee and our two second rounders (nonguaranteed contracts) for their pick plus a bad contract?
Would you give up Gee and the second rounders for Ariza and the #10 pick?
I was thinking, that in my perfect world, the Cavs would start the next season with a roster containing Kyrie, Harrison Barnes, MKG and Tristan Thompson. If for no other reason, how insanely great would the chemistry be on that team? They’re all friends, and played with or against each other in high school, aka like 2 years ago for these young ‘uns. But maybe I’m just crazy. What moves would it take to land that roster, I wonder out loud?
Dan, I personally think Davis will be a better version of dwight, same defensive presence, maybe not quite as nice of post moves, but who has range and hits free throws. The kid is a freak. I would much rather have him than MKG who will be an effective defender but much less significant because he’s on the wing, and some “legit” 7 footer who clearly isn’t too legit to be falling that far in the draft. Hollins was a legit 7 footer, no thanks. Davis can play center in the NBA just like he did in college once he adds a little muscle (at the combine he measured in at .25″ taller than dwight), and he will be the best center in the NBA before too long regardless of what team he goes to, mark my words.
Carson, chances the 4th pick is just as capable of flaming out oden style, and much more likely to just never be a star even if healthy. chances are picks in the late 1st and early 2nd won’t ever be good starters. I’d take Davis over MKG, Festus Ezeli, Doron Lamb, and another late pick every time.
There is literally nothing we could offer the Hornets for them to trade us Davis. I don’t even think giving them Andy and Kyrie would get it done. That franchise needs a superstar considering its recent history. Practically every scout has said that Davis is the best bigman to come out since Duncan. (Still think Oden was the better prospect at the time, regardless of how it turned out.) In any case, I like that Grant was giving it a shot anyway, hoping that they are dumb. Yes, in basketball, the number 1 pick is worth every pick you may have and Davis is more than worth our next 2 drafts. I wouldn’t give up Kyrie and Andy like I mentioned, but Davis is worth more than many of us can imagine. The guy is likely to be Chandler/Camby with a bit of Chris Bosh thrown in. This is not a yearly occasion.
eh…it was worth a shot. Not surprised by the outcome though. I still think the Cavs will make a move or two on draft day. Just not big moves like this would have been. I wouldn’t mind them packaging #24 and both 2nd rounders to move up and grab Terrence Ross (provided they didn’t get Beal at #4). Barnes at 4, Ross at 15 or so, buy back in around 27 and grab Ezeli. I think something like this would be a successful draft for Cleveland.
Davis is the best big man prospect since Oden anyway. I don’t blame them for kicking the tires on Davis, but it’s not going ANYWHERE. As for where to move to. Moving down to the 6/11 is a good move. I don’t see the need to move up to 2. The only reason to move to two is to take Robinson. I don’t think Charlotte sells that pick though. We’ll be choosing between Drummond and Beal. Someone will want to trade up with us or the Wizards to take Drummond. Portland seems like the natural destination. We could do a lot of damage with 6 and 11. Love to see Barnes and Myers Leonard, or Leonard and Ross.
24 is not a bad spot, but I think that the late teen players I want: Ross and Nicholson will be gone by then. We’ll likely be choosing between Evan Fournier, John Jenkins, Will Barton, Doron Lamb, Tony Wroten, Jeff Taylor… Not quite the quality, but a couple of them have a chance to be good.
This draft will probably have at least 5 all stars, but after Davis, no one knows who they will be. I think you’ll see guys taken in the late 1st and early 2nd round who will be electric players.
WHOA! NBA Combine Athletic testing posted. The story here is Harrison Barnes.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2012&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&source=NBA%20Draft%20Combine&sort=10
Harrison Barnes KILLS it. Highest No Step Vert at 38″ and 38.5″ step vert. MKG 32″, and 35″. He also had the fastest 3/4 court sprint time and was in the top 20 on the agility. Also 15 bench reps kills MKG’s 6. Rhe 38″ no step vert is the highest in the database going back to 2009, beating out iman Shumpert. I almost wonder if it’s a typo. I think it’s safe to say that Barnes is back in the top 4 discussion.
Miles Plumlee has a monster combine too with the highest max vert of 40″5, and the highest vert reach at 12.2″. This guy is 6’11″. 15 bench reps, and a 10.64 agility drill. That’s with 11.5% body fat. If he drops some weight he could be even more ridiculous. He just probably put himself back into the second round, and maybe even the first.
Perry Jones had very nice sprint and vertical numbers (3.19 and 38.5). Myers Leonard posted a very strong 19 bench reps, and Jae Crowder beat everyone with 20. Marquis Teague had good numbers across the board.
Skinniest? Terrence Ross with a ridiculous 3.2% body fat, yet could only bench the bar 2 times. Jared Cunningham with 3.4% could only do 4. Will Barton with 4.1% doesn’t appear to have lifted it at all. He also posted one of the worst agility drills at 12.5 seconds, and a 3.6 second sprint.
Quincy Acy scores highest on the agility drill with 11% body fat. He could be a SF after all.
Thomas Robinson and MKG were 2nd and 3rd best in the sprint and had verticals around 35.5″ Decent Showings.
Kim English had nice agility drills, and is an intriguing 2nd rounder. Drummond’s 10.83 agility drill is amazingly good for his size, and his 7.5″ body fat is a good number.
Darius Johnson Odom, and Jamychal Green showed a very nice combination of strength and agility.
Good stuff HoopsDogg. Another thing that caught my eye is that Sullinger is the same height as Robinson, has a higher no-step vertical, weighs more, and has similar wingspan. Based on stereotypes, I always assumed Robinson was the better “pure” athlete.
As an aside, why don’t all of these guys where the same size show with regard to height? If what matters is your height with shoes, why doesn’t Nike design like a 6 inch platform shoe? Just Do It, Nike.
I take that back. Robinson is dramatically faster (sprint) and more agile than Sullinger.
Someone should look into if Drummond is wearing a heel lift in one shoe to offset a leg-length discrepancy.
HoopsDogg,
Check out the top 15 – 20 no-step verts in draftexpress’s database for “drafted” “small forwards”. Not exactly a “who’s who” of NBA players. Highest bench press is even worse; best small forward with 15 or more bench reps is debatedly Ronnie Brewer.
Joey Graham did 26 bench reps, 10.62 agility and 3.05 sprint; all extremely elite in combine history.
These tests are informative, but I don’t think they are typically highly indicative of projecting success.
Barnes may have tanked his standing reach number to inflate his vertical leap. Vertical leap is calculated by subtracting standing reach from the highest point a player can touch jumping. If a player doesn’t give their maximum stretch while doing their standing reach measurement, it makes their vertical jump look more impressive. Wanting to enhance his brand, Barnes might feel it is better marketing to have a higher vertical leap. This would explain why there wasn’t much difference in his standing vertical leap and his one step vertical. It would also explain why his vertical reach wasn’t as high as expected from a player with his height and wingspan. All that being said he still has an impressive vertical, just maybe not as good as advertised. And as Harrison has warned us, it’s all about the brand.
Oh, I agree Kevin. I looked at that. It’s definitely not the best indicator. I will say that it sours me on a guy like will Barton, who seems to be skinny, weak, and slow.
And JAG, you could be right. That was a really strange anomaly.
Jag, reaching or not while standing wouldn’t have anything to do with the differences between a no step and one step jump. Regardless, he has the highest no step vertical reach (can’t really fake that) of anyone under 6’11, and at 6’8, I doubt anyone would have guessed that. But yeah, he probably didn’t stretch his best, or he’s got really low shoulders.
Thats one thing I always wondered about combines and stuff, why they measure the height of the top of your head. Wouldn’t the top of you shoulders have a better indication of what you can do vertically? I don’t see people using long necks and big heads very effectively on a basketball court. And watching KD last night, dude has no neck and a small head, his shoulders are at the same level as most 7 footers.
Wouldn’t that be obvious if he wasn’t trying to stretch as high as he could? He’s in shorts and a t-shirt. You would think someone would notice if he’s is slouching or doesn’t have his arm straight. Besides, why pull a stunt like that in front of all those scouts and GMs? Seems like he’d have more to lose than gain.
They have assistants walking players through the stations making sure they do it right. I remember seeing them make a player redo his standing reach because his hand wasn’t completely vertical. At most, Barnes is cheating on an inch of his vert.