Hornets will entertain offers for 10th pick if someone also agrees to take Ariza or Okafor contracts.
I mention this only because the Cavs have a bunch of cap space and could conceivably absorb one or both of those contracts. Okafor will make $28 mil over the next two seasons, and Ariza (who has a player option for the 2013-14 season) is owed $7.2 mil next season and $7.7 mil in 2013-14. I haven’t heard anything as far as the Cavs being in talks with the Hornets, but I thought I’d make you guys aware.
Something to keep in mind: I’m not sure exactly what the cap is going to do this offseason, but the Cavs will likely need to have about $50 mil committed to player salaries to hit the mandatory salary floor (else they’ll have to distribute the extra money evenly amongst their roster), and as it stands (per this article, which I think is accurate) they have $31.5 mil tied up at this very moment, without having signed any rookies, picked up or terminated Daniel Gibson’s team option, or dealt with the proposition of re-signing Alonzo Gee.
Oh man, I would do this in a heartbeat! You could get a real player at 10! Maybe Lamb falls to there. Jones from UK. Even my dude, Henson. Or Dion Waiters if he knocks the Cavs out in workouts. Totally worth Ariza or Okafor. Plus, both of thoseguyscould get but with the Cavs this coming year. Then they come off the books when it’s playoff push time. What’s motto like??
Also, the Raptors are trying to trade the 8th pick for a proven small forward. Wonder if a sign-and-trade with Gee would be a possibility.
I think it really depends what the Hornets would want in return. If it is just taking on Ariza or Okafor (I think both would be a bit too much), I think doing it is a no-brainer. Kyrie and Tristan are still on their rookie contracts and the Cavs have almost thirty million in cap space.
Ariza would be nicer from a cap perspective since his contract is more reasonable, but since we’re probably drafting Harrison Barnes with the fourth pick, I’m not sure he makes sense. Okafor’s contract is worse, but he fits a need on the team. Having the tenth pick would give us another potential wing player like Lamb or Waiters, both of whom would fit great next to Irving and Barnes.
You have to love a starting line-up that looks like:
Irving
Lamb/Waiters
Barnes
Thompson
Okafor
w/ Varejao and Gee as the first guys off the bench.
And that’s not even including if we get a rotation guy with the 24th pick, or hit the jackpot with that rumored trade involving Varejao that would net us the fifth pick in the draft (which would alter who we take at ten presumably, but still).
I need to stop getting my hopes up. :P
I feel like Terrence Ross would be a great pick at #10 if we could do this trade. He’s a better shooter than Waiters and is surprisingly athletic.
How about pick 24 for 10 and Okafor? Actually, that probably isn’t even enough since you guys have to remember, we aren’t the only team that will be after the pick and the Hornets will obviously take the best offer. I think if we end up getting the pick we will have to give up 24, 33, and 34 or the Sacramento pick.
Do it. Take both contracts. Both players fill needs and they can afford it. Trade Walton and Boobie and the 24/32/33 in the trade (I would even include the LAL/MIA pick next year or maybe the Kings pick) or to try to move up to the teens.
PG – Irving, Sloan
SG – Rookie, Gee, Harris
SF – Rookie, Ariza, Casspi
PF – TT, Andy, Samuels
C – Okafor, Rookie, Erdin
This would be a very competitive team. Would more than likely compete for the playoffs. This would put them at right around $50 million before the rookie contracts. So they’d be hanging out right around the cap and a little over next year. But Okafor and Ariza would come off the books right in time for extensions for the young guys. It really sets up as almost a perfect situation for the Cavs.
Yeah.. Dont think the Cavs will be taking arizas contract. It’s looking more and more like they want to draft Harrison Barnes in this year and they probably dont want to mess with the 3.
Argh. No. We don’t want those guys. We want MAXIMUM cap space for 2013-2014. Would you rather have Ariza and/or Okafor, and a 10 instead of a 24 (in a loaded draft), or would you rather have the money to offer max contracts to both Harden and Ibaka, and make OKC choose between the two? The 2013-2014 free agent class is LOADED. We want to absolutely as much cap space as possible that year. Pay some scrubs on a one year deal to get up to the minimum salary this year, and then kill the 2013 free agent class.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents
@TheKyrieShow
IMO, Ariza would be a perfect fit to come off the bench behind Barnes, so I think that could end up being not too big of an issue.
@HoopsDogg
I think us Cavs fans should know that free agency is NOT the way you want to build a team. Relying on FA is never a good strategy. Just because Harden and Ibaka are available doesn’t mean they are coming here. Other teams have cap space and they are both restricted and might want to stay for at least one more year, especially if they win a couple times between now and then. Give me a top 10 pick any day over waiting a year to maybe have a shot to sign a player to max dollars.
Great suggestions, but I would prefer Gerald Wallace in a sign-and-trade for Walton & Gibson,,
Andre Miller to back up Kyrie and free Kyrie to play a little SG,
Oden , who would not play until the playoffs,
David Lighty, who I think may be free after playing abroad.
Oden, Wallace, Miller, Lighty + rookies would bring playoff possibilities.
Miller at $4 mill., Lighty at 1, Wallace at 12, and Oden at 1.5, 3, 4 (Option) would be affordable.
Agree with Aaron. Harden will get resigned and we already have Ibaka Jr. in TT (or they hope). I think we’ve seen Cleveland spurned enough by FAs that no plan should focus on signing a particular guy.
Taking Ariza would be perfect because he did not want to come to Cleveland years ago so he would not pick up his option in 2013. Okafor would fit a need.
Have to agree with Aaron. While I would love to see the Cavs sign some major players via free agency, I don’t think we are going to do that. Just look at OKC, they made the Finals with their draft picks and Perkins. I can see the Cavs getting a solid role player like Perkins, but no major pieces will be acquired thru free agency.
I’ve been looking at this draft for a while and the Cavs have too many picks. With a deep draft we could conceivably walk away with two solid impact players this year. For that reason, we really should be considering trading up our #24 pick back into the 10-17 range. The Cavs won’t have use of four rookies next year, but two solid rookies would be perfect. I’d prefer to see the Cavs trade up and take the #2 pick if we can, so we ensure either MKG or Beal (I think there is a big drop off in talent after these two). If the Hornets or Raptors are willing to shop their top ten picks then the Cavs should make a serious push to acquire another pick. We have two high 2nd rounders, Miami’s pick next year (with the right to swap spots with LA), and Sacramento’s protect 1st rounder too. Not to mention Gee is drawing interest around the league as a potential solid wing player. These are all great assets we can use to move around this draft and pick up solid players. If the Cavs play this right, we could conceivably walk away with MKG/Beal/Barnes, and then possibly a Rivers/Lamb/Zeller/Waiters. Imagine having 4 top ten picks from the past two drafts. THAT is how you rebuild a team!
I’m with HoopsDogg on this one. Save the money for the Harden sweepstakes unless we are given a deal that is in the Cavs’ favor long-term… OR there’s still a guy available that Grant and Scott REALLY want with the 10th pick (or 8th, if the Raps are willing to deal with us).
Jim Brickman’s 7-man rotation has me Pretty excited. I’d bring in Okafor this instant if it meant adding the tenth pick. I’m not crazy about Barnes, but having a young group of rookies/sophs on this team (Kyrie/Lamb/Barnes/Tristan) would be a lot of fun. We’d be able to watch them develop as a unit and really, having a bunch of guys invested in one another is maybe the only chance we have of keeping a young core together long term.
I totaled some 2013-2014 salaries to see where we’d be next summer. Even assuming we keep Boobie around then sign him at a lower rate ($3 million?) and resign Gee in the coming months ($4 million) we are only at $46 million for eight guys (Kyrie, Andy, Tristan, Boobie, Gee, Okafor, pick 4, pick 10). We’d have to I’ll out the roster obviously, but we’d still have some room to work with a year from now (wily vets and low draft picks come cheap).
I’d love to have Harden here but have little confidence in that actually happening. I’d rather add a top 10 pick and a decent center than bank on luring a max salary free agent to CLE.
Aaron, I agree that we should put all our eggs in the Harden basket, And I would definitely want that 10 pick. That said, taking both ariza and okafer is crippling to our flexebility, and we keeping an option open to sign one good player, and having them have some continuity with our youngsters before they have to decided to resign would be helpful.
Being competitive and making the playoffs is not the ultimate goal, winning a championship is. Okafer aria and the 10 pick would make us a lower end playoff team, and we would be pretty much stuck with that team for 2 years. and miss out on signing a good fitting free agent from the 2013 class (there are a lot of good players in their, not just harden) and giving them a year to bond with kyrie before he makes his choice.
It might not be terrible, but I would be scared of taking on both contracts. If we could also keep the 24 pick, maybe it would be worth it. Regardless I don’t think league rules would allow us to take on that much salary, we don’t have the contracts to give back. If we could swing 24 for ariza and 10, or 33 for okafer and 10, I’d be listening.
Sorry Aaron and Dave, but your thinking reflects the realities of the old CBA, not the new one. In the new CBA, which really starts in 2013-2014, it is prohibitively expensive to be over the luxury tax. The Knicks might do it for a season or two, and maybe one or two other big market teams that have a window, but no one is going to have the money to sign all the players they want to sign. Players won’t just have to take less to stay with the home team, they’ll have to take a LOT less. It’s going to encourage player movement to teams with cap space. OKC already has two max contract guys, and a lot of salary tied up in Perk, Sefalosha, and Nick Collison. Ibaka and Harden are going to be max contract players. Teams with a lot of talent are going to have to make choices like this. Tying up cap space with guys who are borderline effective just to move up into the top ten is stupid, and I don’t think that Gilbert is that frivolous with his money.
2013 is a great year because a lot of contenders have their space tied up, and the class is stacked at every position. Furthermore, there’s going to be teams that will look to trade players to us in order to sign other players, and we can get draft picks, etc. for taking on those players. If you’re going to do a deal like this, MAYBE you take Ariza, but there’s absolutely no way we should be touching Okafor’s albatross contract with no amnesty available.
Also the guys available at 10 aren’t much better than the guys available at 24. The draft is that loaded.
@Pete; HoopsDogg,
I’ve yet to see a compelling scrap of evidence that we’ll get anything resembling a top free agent.
If they wouldn’t come play with LBJ, why come now? Cleveland will never be a top-tier FA destination, and we should plan accordingly. Cap space is valuable – because it lets us make moves like this. We could never have lured Kyrie here with cap space, but we could absorb a big contract with that cap space, and get a pick in return.
Not saying the space isn’t valuable, but this is exactly the kind of thing that it’s valuable for.
Addendum: I’d be fine with Okafor – his contract is atrocious, but as a player, he’s actually pretty good.
I’m sorry but Ibaka is nowhere near a max contract player. He is good, but extremely overrated. Ariza has a player option for 13/14 so maybe he doesn’t pick that up. Maybe a contender takes Okafor’s contract for a playoff run and both contracts are up after 13/14 so the Cavs will at most be slightly over the cap for one year if they do this. You just can’t rely on one player and free agency. It’s far too risky and the Cavs should know that
Both Dave and HoopsDogg have valid points. Cleveland will definitely be set up well for 2013 FA. They have only 9 mil committed currently (I think only Utah has less). You figure they will resign Gee, but Casspi and Gibson will come off the books. If the Cavs continue to develop and becomes a lower-seeded playoff team, I think it will be easier to sign an elite FA (that and due to the new CBA). But it’s still risky counting on that.
I remember Dan Gilbert sending out a tweet about a year ago (I think), saying something about waiting until the time is right before you strike. Even Chris Grant said that the Cavs wouldn’t make a splash in FA until it was enough to push the team over the top. That being said, I think they will wait until 2013 to make a big move.
Also, Dave, I’m not sure you want to count on Ariza waiving his option. 7.7 mil is a lot of money to walk away from.
Exactly, HoopsDogg,
Ibaka and Harden will not be on the Thunder for their next contracts unless they ship out Westbrook. I absolutely offer Harden a max deal. Paired with Irving, that backcourt could be very dynamic as both guys are great playing on or off the ball. We need to at least be in the running.
Ibaka will also get a huge deal, but I am not sure about a Max. But as I have said before, while I am a believer in Tristan, there is no way he will ever be the player Ibaka is, offensively or defensively. Ibaka is bigger, longer, has better timing, and is quicker off the floor than Tristan. Those aren’t things that one can particularly improve. Ibaka is also far more skilled, with infinitely better shooting mechanics, handle and hands. Let’s not compare the two players anymore. There really is no contest. We should be thinking more along the lines of a better Taj Gibson.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Ibaka is a good young player whose game has a little room to grow. But he’s not, nor will he ever be a max player. If Ibaka is a max player, then Andy V. would be too if he hit the open market. The team that makes either a max player is the team that makes a serious mistake managing its salary cap.
Ibaka isn’t close to a max player. If some idiot GM gives him a max contract the Thunder will laughingly decline to match.
I’m fine with giving Harden a max offer, but the Thunder are almost certainly matching.
I don’t know why everybody seems to be so hard on TT. Comparison of Ibaka’s and TT’s rookie seasons:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=ibakase01&y1=2010&p2=thomptr01&y2=2012
It’s clear from this comparison that Ibaka was a more efficient offensive player his first season, but all of the other stats are inconclusive in my opinion. I don’t see any reason why TT can’t show the same improvement countless other big men have made subsequent to their rookie years.
hoopsdogg, you exaggerate a few things, but overall you have solid points.
- There will always be teams that go over the tax still, just not as deep.
- Ibaka, as good as he is, is not a max contract guy. Harden may be, but he may not. along with the harder cap will come more stringent definitions of max contract players. The
- The draft is deep, but Zeller, perry jones, Henson and Lamb are significantly better prospects than Fab Melo, moultrie, and jeff taylor. The cavs may or may not have to give up 24 to move up as well
Lastly, the cavs are not talented enough to deny a top 10 pick just because they want to sign FA’s from one class over the next years class. We can’t count on harden or dwight signing with cleveland as we will not be the only team with cap space pursuing them. Especially since we would still have max contract money to give out in 2013 with ariza on the books assuming we don’t sign other long term-non rookie deals. (Only players signed for 2013 are Thompson, Varajoa, Kyrie – 19 million + 3.5 for gee, +8 million for this years picks, plus 4-5 million for next years (assuming we are better and have less picks) + 7.7 for ariza is <$43 million. Cap space says: ~$17 million.
One thing that should be noted is that in the new CBA, the amnestied contract of Baron Davis still counts against our cap floor, so with our added rookies that shouldn’t be a factor in our decisions.
Bumsquare, he shot 11% worse. 11% is HUGE for Fg percentage. That right there is damning evidence, but then he also is a significantly worse shot blocker and slightly worse rebounder in slightly more minutes. I’m all for giving TT a chance to improve, but realistically it should not be expected that he’ll be as good as ibaka. It could happen, but it probably won’t.
I’m guess New Orleans just want’s Okafor out and won’t necessarily require BOTH contracts to be absorbed in order to relenquish #10. This should definitely be a high priority for Grant & Co.
Some of you people are delusional. I have no idea where you come up with some of these ideas, such as trades that no GM in their right mind would ever consider making. And putting all of our eggs in the Harden basket? What are you smoking? There are so many reasons that Harden will never come to Cleveland that it’s pointless to even try listing them all. Although, for starters: OKC will match, and there will be a dozen other teams offering him the max anyways, which leaves him absolutely zero reason to sign with Cleveland.
@ TheKyrieShow: why do you say it’s becoming more and more apparent that the Cavs want to draft Barnes? Please show me a single shred of evidence that points to that.
http://tracking.si.com/2012/06/08/charlotte-bobcats-shopping-first-round-pick/
This trade could be a big winner for both teams. The extra CAP space allows NOLA to re-sign Gordon, Kaman, Landry and Belinelli while bringing in Davis plus whoever they could acquire from any picks the Cavs gave them. I’d have to think that the Cavs #24,33 and 34 from this year would be in play as could the Heat’s first rounder from next year. The Cavs could take on both Okafor and Ariza if they had to, in order to keep as many of the aforementioned picks as possible. Okafor and Varejao could mentor any developmental bigs the Cavs acquire until their contracts run out. The possible combinations at #4 and #10 are incredible. Barnes/Beal/MKG/Robinson/Lamb and Ross/Waiters/PJ3/Sullinger… any one of those combinations would have a high probability of being very good. They could start an experienced but young group selected from Okafor/Varejao/TT and Gee/Ariza/Boobie and Kyrie. The extras, with the two rookies plus Sloan would be a solid ten man rotation. The rookies would have no pressure to immediately play but if they beat out those starters they would prove to be solid NBA players.
As far as the CAP situation Walton and Boobie’s contracts would be off the books after next year and Okafor and Arizas the following year. Those expiring contracts make room to add draft picks as well as leave some CAP space to tweak the roster with FA’s.
Cranky, Calm down. As explained, OKC won’t have the money to sign harden to a max deal. Ibaka, being a cheaper and more complementary player, will be their first priority. Without resigning either restricted player (ibaka and harden) they’ll have 48 million on the books. Ibaka is likely to get at least $10m a year, harden ~$15m, there is about a .5% chance they resign both and pay the $2.50 luxury tax (that’s without filling out their other roster spots either). There is the chance they determine they should let ibaka walk and keep harden, but its certainly not a forgone conclusion by any means.
Conversely, not many contending/promising teams have room to take on max contracts every year. Cleveland has a pretty good shot at being in that position in a years time. Harden currently shows no indication of having a problem playing for a smaller market, and certainly seems to value team success. It still may not be likely, but there is much greater than a 0% chance he ends up in Cleveland, even if that chance is still roughly 15%.
Stop being such a typical whiney “whoa is me” cleveland fan.
It may be feasible that the Cavs could sign a major FA like Harden but how likely is it compared to drafting one with another lottery pick in a strong draft? The draft is not a sure way to acquire stars but I like the odds better than the Cavs odds of signing such a player.